Thinking outside the box

[lincolndefan]

What would everyone's thoughts be if we converted J. Taylor to wide receiver. There's things to consider, current vision problem which maybe will be corrected with more playing time or not. I mean i hope it improves but there's no way of really knowing. It could possibly be a godsend to the Colts if it worked out. The man is big, tough, plays with a mean streak and is fast. He also can catch the ball. Can he hold onto it is the question. I think he has the intelligence to learn the wide position but don't know if he has the will to. There in lies the problem. Of course, if this worked out it would create a running back opening or not depending on how F. Reich utilized it. It possibly could shore up the receiver position. Can you imagine the possibilities, more speed at the wide position and another player with quickness like Hines and Harris for the trick plays. With Campbell hopefully returning soon, the speed at the wide receiver position would be very formidable. Also, we could resign Mack for next year to shore up the running back position but the Colts have to be assured the injury he sustained hasn't affected his speed and or his cutting ability. Anyway, it was a thought i have been mulling around since i'm on lockdown again. Please don't get me started on that subject! So, have at me and tell me your thoughts but please think about it before you have a knee jerk reaction.

[danlhart87]

If we convert anybody to WR it should be Hines not Taylor. Taylor is RB1.

[pacolts56]

I can see having a couple of plays where maybe he motions out wide.... but route running nuances as a full time WR are not something developed overnight... and we don’t have the luxury of conducting this kind of experiment.

[krunk]

No hes not a WR at all

[coltsfan_canada]

50 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

If we convert anybody to WR it should be Hines not Taylor. Taylor is RB1.

Exactly I think Rivers always excel with shorter RB at SD he was successful with Sproles and Eckler and now Hines is feasting. 

[Myles]

I wouldn't mind the RB's running more WR routes, but I don't know if a full change is needed.  Well maybe if he doesn't start getting more than 3 yards per carry.

[Shadow_Creek]

58 minutes ago, lincolndefan said:

What would everyone's thoughts be if we converted J. Taylor to wide receiver. There's things to consider, current vision problem which maybe will be corrected with more playing time or not. I mean i hope it improves but there's no way of really knowing. It could possibly be a godsend to the Colts if it worked out. The man is big, tough, plays with a mean streak and is fast. He also can catch the ball. Can he hold onto it is the question. I think he has the intelligence to learn the wide position but don't know if he has the will to. There in lies the problem. Of course, if this worked out it would create a running back opening or not depending on how F. Reich utilized it. It possibly could shore up the receiver position. Can you imagine the possibilities, more speed at the wide position and another player with quickness like Hines and Harris for the trick plays. With Campbell hopefully returning soon, the speed at the wide receiver position would be very formidable. Also, we could resign Mack for next year to shore up the running back position but the Colts have to be assured the injury he sustained hasn't affected his speed and or his cutting ability. Anyway, it was a thought i have been mulling around since i'm on lockdown again. Please don't get me started on that subject! So, have at me and tell me your thoughts but please think about it before you have a knee jerk reaction.

by not having otas or preseason it has taken a big hit to the rookie RBs this year even the chief's explosive star RB is starting to feel the pressure just look at his last couple of games 

 

week 8 vs jets - 6 att 21 yards 0 TDs (mahomes had to put that game on his back)

 

week 9 vs panthers 5 att 14 yds 0 TDs (once again mahomes had to pass heavy again)

 

right now Taylor is still feeling the game and Riech isn't putting him the best position to rush very well so the results you see is what you'll get till next off season when he gets properly trained

[coltsfeva]

5 minutes ago, Shadow_Creek said:

by not having otas or preseason it has taken a big hit to the rookie RBs this year even the chief's explosive star RB is starting to feel the pressure just look at his last couple of games 

 

week 8 vs jets - 6 att 21 yards 0 TDs (mahomes had to put that game on his back)

 

week 9 vs panthers 5 att 14 yds 0 TDs (once again mahomes had to pass heavy again)

 

right now Taylor is still feeling the game and Riech isn't putting him the best position to rush very well so the results you see is what you'll get till next off season when he gets properly trained

 I don’t know if it will take that long for Taylor to get his timing down. It very well might be but I could see it happening this year. I do expect him to break some long runs this year but that could just be the fan in me hoping for the best. We shall see.

[Shadow_Creek]

1 minute ago, coltsfeva said:

 I don’t know if it will take that long for Taylor to get his timing down. It very well might be but I could see it happening this year. I do expect him to break some long runs this year but that could just be the fan in me hoping for the best. We shall see.

i agree. was like that Mack's rookie year as well just waiting for that big run he did a lot in college lol hope Taylor breaks one soon

[krunk]

Mack had issues running up the gut in his first year but the difference is you could see his talent very early on beginning with his preseason gave vs Dallas. And actually his first game vs the Rams he had some nice runs. Then there was the 49ers game and some other ones. You could see the speed and the talent even if he had some other things to work on.  It hadnt quite worked that way for Taylor but it will be great for us if he begins to find his stride very soon. We need it! Hes got to learn how to hit these holes and stop running into peoples backs.

[Smonroe]

8 minutes ago, krunk said:

Mack had issues running up the gut in his first year but the difference is you could see his talent very early on beginning with his preseason gave vs Dallas. And actually his first game vs the Rams he had some nice runs. Then there was the 49ers game and some other ones. You could see the speed and the talent even if he had some other things to work on.  It hadnt quite worked that way for Taylor but it will be great for us if he begins to find his stride very soon. We need it! Hes got to learn how to hit these holes and stop running into peoples backs.

 

He has a great RB coach in Rathman, and he has a ton of talent.  He'll get there.

 

I'd still love to see them sign both Mack and Hooker (for the right price) next season.  

[Stephen]

Well recently  taylor isn't  giving enough  carries to be  successful.  The way things are now taylor might have to score on a 50 plus yard carry just to get a faur amount of  carries 

[GoColts8818]

No

[CurBeatElite]

7 hours ago, coltsfan_canada said:

Exactly I think Rivers always excel with shorter RB at SD he was successful with Sproles and Eckler and now Hines is feasting. 

 

Not totally sure that height of the RB is the key here.  I think all these guys are very quick, good in open space, have good hands and run good routes for RBs.  Quickness and shortness may have some correlation, but Rivers is doing well getting the ball to Taylor out of the backfield as well and think he would have been just fine getting Mack involved in passing game.  

 

6 hours ago, krunk said:

Mack had issues running up the gut in his first year but the difference is you could see his talent very early on beginning with his preseason gave vs Dallas. And actually his first game vs the Rams he had some nice runs. Then there was the 49ers game and some other ones. You could see the speed and the talent even if he had some other things to work on.  It hadnt quite worked that way for Taylor but it will be great for us if he begins to find his stride very soon. We need it! Hes got to learn how to hit these holes and stop running into peoples backs.

 

Taylor has had several nice plays (he didn't have a preseason like Mack did).  Some of them have been on screen passes, some have been runs.  I do think he's got to let things open up a bit and work on his vision (especially on inside runs), but also think the OL hasn't been playing at the same level as they were last year (as evidenced by declines in PFF grades to all except Glow), and I think some of the play calling has been very predictable.  I have full faith that Taylor will turn out to be just fine for the Colts if he stays healthy.

 

_______________

To the OP, I don't think there is any chance that Taylor goes to WR.  I think Hines will stay being used the way he has been (a hybrid RB-WR).  I could see Harris being used similarly to Hines, but think if anything he's going to be the guy who steps up to become the WR you describe and seem to desire.

[Jdubu]

13 hours ago, pacolts56 said:

I can see having a couple of plays where maybe he motions out wide.... but route running nuances as a full time WR are not something developed overnight... and we don’t have the luxury of conducting this kind of experiment.

I’d like to see both Hines and JT along with Pittman start out in the backfield at the same time and then move out one at a time. We know Hines catches well, Pittman just ran a reverse I believe and JT has shown he is capable of catching as well. That would have to be a confusing match up for defenses. Heck, even mix in Harris, wasn’t he a rb in college? It’s shocking that Reich and Sirianni hasn’t developed quirkish types of sets like this. It sounds like we’ve just been a vanilla or plain Jane style offense. 

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

I’d like to see both Hines and JT along with Pittman start out in the backfield at the same time and then move out one at a time. We know Hines catches well, Pittman just ran a reverse I believe and JT has shown he is capable of catching as well. That would have to be a confusing match up for defenses. Heck, even mix in Harris, wasn’t he a rb in college? It’s shocking that Reich and Sirianni hasn’t developed quirkish types of sets like this. It sounds like we’ve just been a vanilla or plain Jane style offense. 

Shocking?
 

The team has been trying to keep things simple and mostly Vanilla all season long.   No off-season workouts.   A reduced pre-season that featured exactly ZERO games.   Why are you shocked about....   anything?   It’s the year of Covid, nothing is normal.

 

The only thing that’s really shocking is that you’d be shocked about anything. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I don't get all the hate toward Taylor. Dude is a rookie and still averages 3.8 yards a carry and even has a 100 yard game already. The 3.8 is nothing special but it doesn't suck either. If he struggles next season than there is cause for concern. 

[pacolts56]

8 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

I’d like to see both Hines and JT along with Pittman start out in the backfield at the same time and then move out one at a time. We know Hines catches well, Pittman just ran a reverse I believe and JT has shown he is capable of catching as well. That would have to be a confusing match up for defenses. Heck, even mix in Harris, wasn’t he a rb in college? It’s shocking that Reich and Sirianni hasn’t developed quirkish types of sets like this. It sounds like we’ve just been a vanilla or plain Jane style offense. 

Hopefully some wrinkles like those are on the way. We have some interesting skill sets with these young guys and I’m hoping Frank will open up the playbook too.

 

And yes, Harris could be an interesting gadget WR as well.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, pacolts56 said:

Hopefully some wrinkles like those are on the way. We have some interesting skill sets with these young guys and I’m hoping Frank will open up the playbook too.

 

And yes, Harris could be an interesting gadget WR as well.

Taylor actually catches the ball well and has a high rate of catches so so far for a rookie he has been average at worse as an overall back. Some just don't like him. I will say this, he is a lot better than Trent.

[Yoshinator]

18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Taylor actually catches the ball well and has a high rate of catches so so far for a rookie he has been average at worse as an overall back. Some just don't like him. I will say this, he is a lot better than Trent.

 

24 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't get all the hate toward Taylor. Dude is a rookie and still averages 3.8 yards a carry and even has a 100 yard game already. The 3.8 is nothing special but it doesn't suck either. If he struggles next season than there is cause for concern. 

The issue people probably have for Taylor is the fact that he is SPECIFICALLY a running back. RBs develop a lot quicker than any other position as rookies in the NFL. So usually it's a "what you see is what you get" case with them. Taylor isn't horrible and he can catch, but he needs to do better. Ithink the last couple games may be due to an ankle injury, but he also needs to run with more determination and not be so hesitant. Hines and Wilkins are doing that and getting much better results. Taylor has been timid with his runs up to this point.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

 

The issue people probably have for Taylor is the fact that he is SPECIFICALLY a running back. RBs develop a lot quicker than any other position as rookies in the NFL. So usually it's a "what you see is what you get" case with them. Taylor isn't horrible and he can catch, but he needs to do better. Ithink the last couple games may be due to an ankle injury, but he also needs to run with more determination and not be so hesitant. Hines and Wilkins are doing that and getting much better results. Taylor has been timid with his runs up to this point.

Hines has more experience and IMO is better. Taylor will get better with experience IMO. We need patience for now with Taylor. If he doesn't improve next year then that is a different discussion. 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Hines has more experience and IMO is better. Taylor will get better with experience IMO. We need patience for now with Taylor. If he doesn't improve next year then that is a different discussion. 

I agree with that. Hoping we sign Mack back to a new, cheap deal next year. We do have a nice rb trio on our team right now, so the pressure isn't all on Taylor, and he needs more carries as well. There's no hurry with him as of now. The positive is how Hines has stepped up and taken control of the running game. Hopefully Taylor can learn to run through holes quicker. He's only fumbled once and can catch passes (there was a possibility he couldn't coming out of college), just needs to get more experience in the NFL in actual games.

[Stephen]

55 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Hines has more experience and IMO is better. Taylor will get better with experience IMO. We need patience for now with Taylor. If he doesn't improve next year then that is a different discussion. 

Hines has more experience ,but if we depend  on him as lead back then we won't  make it far

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

 

The issue people probably have for Taylor is the fact that he is SPECIFICALLY a running back. RBs develop a lot quicker than any other position as rookies in the NFL. So usually it's a "what you see is what you get" case with them. Taylor isn't horrible and he can catch, but he needs to do better. Ithink the last couple games may be due to an ankle injury, but he also needs to run with more determination and not be so hesitant. Hines and Wilkins are doing that and getting much better results. Taylor has been timid with his runs up to this point.

I thought  taylor  could be as good as Elliot  his rookie  year, but the line hasn't been as good and he isn't  given enough  carries 

[ProblChld32]

18 hours ago, lincolndefan said:

What would everyone's thoughts be if we converted J. Taylor to wide receiver. There's things to consider, current vision problem which maybe will be corrected with more playing time or not. I mean i hope it improves but there's no way of really knowing. It could possibly be a godsend to the Colts if it worked out. The man is big, tough, plays with a mean streak and is fast. He also can catch the ball. Can he hold onto it is the question. I think he has the intelligence to learn the wide position but don't know if he has the will to. There in lies the problem. Of course, if this worked out it would create a running back opening or not depending on how F. Reich utilized it. It possibly could shore up the receiver position. Can you imagine the possibilities, more speed at the wide position and another player with quickness like Hines and Harris for the trick plays. With Campbell hopefully returning soon, the speed at the wide receiver position would be very formidable. Also, we could resign Mack for next year to shore up the running back position but the Colts have to be assured the injury he sustained hasn't affected his speed and or his cutting ability. Anyway, it was a thought i have been mulling around since i'm on lockdown again. Please don't get me started on that subject! So, have at me and tell me your thoughts but please think about it before you have a knee jerk reaction.

To simply put it, No!!!

[bestQBever]

4 hours ago, Stephen said:

I thought  taylor  could be as good as Elliot  his rookie  year, but the line hasn't been as good and he isn't  given enough  carries 

Giving him more carries would hurt our run game even more right now. Once he learns to set up defenders and anticipate holes rather than "see and go", then give him more carries.

[Smonroe]

2 hours ago, bestQBever said:

Giving him more carries would hurt our run game even more right now. Once he learns to set up defenders and anticipate holes rather than "see and go", then give him more carries.

 

Some of that is true.  But I was watching the Titans game again.  He was hit in the backfield on just about every short or negative run.  I do think he needs to improve his vision/decisions but it's not all on him.

[Crush22]

22 hours ago, lincolndefan said:

What would everyone's thoughts be if we converted J. Taylor to wide receiver. There's things to consider, current vision problem which maybe will be corrected with more playing time or not. I mean i hope it improves but there's no way of really knowing. It could possibly be a godsend to the Colts if it worked out. The man is big, tough, plays with a mean streak and is fast. He also can catch the ball. Can he hold onto it is the question. I think he has the intelligence to learn the wide position but don't know if he has the will to. There in lies the problem. Of course, if this worked out it would create a running back opening or not depending on how F. Reich utilized it. It possibly could shore up the receiver position. Can you imagine the possibilities, more speed at the wide position and another player with quickness like Hines and Harris for the trick plays. With Campbell hopefully returning soon, the speed at the wide receiver position would be very formidable. Also, we could resign Mack for next year to shore up the running back position but the Colts have to be assured the injury he sustained hasn't affected his speed and or his cutting ability. Anyway, it was a thought i have been mulling around since i'm on lockdown again. Please don't get me started on that subject! So, have at me and tell me your thoughts but please think about it before you have a knee jerk reaction.

[CurBeatElite]

16 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

 

The issue people probably have for Taylor is the fact that he is SPECIFICALLY a running back. RBs develop a lot quicker than any other position as rookies in the NFL. So usually it's a "what you see is what you get" case with them. Taylor isn't horrible and he can catch, but he needs to do better. Ithink the last couple games may be due to an ankle injury, but he also needs to run with more determination and not be so hesitant. Hines and Wilkins are doing that and getting much better results. Taylor has been timid with his runs up to this point.

 

In Mack's rookie year he had 93 carries for 358 yards, a 3.8 average per run with a long run of 35 and 3 TDs.  He also had 21 receptions for 225 yards, a 10.7 average per catch, a long of 34 yards and 1 TD.  He also had 1 fumble.  This was spread across 14 games.  Frank Gore was our bell cow and Mack was the change of pace back.

 

Taylor's rookie year, through 9 games, he had 113 carries for 428 yards with a 3.8 ypc, 4 TDs and a long of 22 yards.  He has 22 receptions for 203 yards, for a 9.2 average per catch and a long of 35 yrads with 0 TDs yet.  He also has one fumble.  

 

Taylor's rookie numbers in terms of average yards per catch and carry are very similar to Mack as a rookie.  He has shown  the same amount of explosiveness as a receiver (35 yard long reception compared to Mack's 34).  Mack was also used as a role player rather than a bell cow as a rookie, which is what the plan for Taylor was (i.e., let Mack be the bell cow and mix Taylor in here and there).  That changed 4 carries into the season.  Taylor had no pre-season games, a very odd training camp, and IMO is suffering some due to predictable play calling.  Not really fair to compare the OLs because they're definitely different, but IMO the OL this year has taken a pretty big step back from the OL they were last year.  @EastStreetrecently posted first half of the season OL grades and they are (aside from Glow) lower for every player along the OL - in some cases significantly lower.  I don't know if this is mainly due to coaching change, if it's due to the compromised offseason, if it's due to opposing teams having really studied tape on how good our OL was last year and figuring out how to exploit it, if it's due to some nagging injuries (seems like at least Castonzo and Q have been dealing with some nagging stuff), if it's due to predictable playcalling, if it's due to a drop-off in RB talent, or a combination of all of those factors.  Maybe Taylor's numbers are down from what Mack put up last year because last year was Mack's 2nd season playing behind the same exact OL, so he had familiarity with their tendencies and vice-versa.  

 

I tend to think Taylor was drafted to be the replacement for Mack after this year with the assumption Mack would be asking for high $ over a long-term deal.  I'd like to see Mack come back, and TBH his injury may have been good for the Colts in that regard as he may need to sign a 1 year 'prove it' deal for cheaper than what he was hoping to in order to show the NFL he recovered from his injury.

 

Long story short, I'm not at all worried about Taylor. He's performing almost at the same exact level Mack was as a rookie but doesn't have the benefit of being the change of pace back, had a compromised off-season/pre-season, and maybe I am wrong, but it seems to me that the playcalling this year has been a lot more predictable  than it was last year.

 

8 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Some of that is true.  But I was watching the Titans game again.  He was hit in the backfield on just about every short or negative run.  I do think he needs to improve his vision/decisions but it's not all on him.

 

Yes.  As I stated above, the OL just doesn't seem to be as dominant as they were last year.  

[Smonroe]

11 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Yes.  As I stated above, the OL just doesn't seem to be as dominant as they were last year.  

 

That's true, but I should have said that some of times that he was hit in the backfield was on the TE's missing their blocks.  That happened too often lately.

[EastStreet]

Just to add @CurBeatElite the schemes were very different. Chud's O was more spread out and vertical, making it easier on RBs.

 

I actually think his O would work better for us right now. Not that I want to go deep a ton, just prefer making the D defend every inch of the field. You can still run a ton.

[DougDew]

I think JT would be better following a lead blocker, like a FB or a stout H back.  He can simply slide around near the designed hole instead of having to wait and see where one opens, like you tend to do in a zone scheme...even any two TE scheme.  

 

And a tailback can still catch short passes.  And so can the FB or Hback, so it would not impact Rivers short passing game much either.

 

But that's an entirely different running game, as GMs and HCs seem to think,  and I don't see that happening.  Lets hope JT catches on.