Marlon Mack / Le'Veon Bell

[horseshoecrabs]

If Mack can keep producing  this year then, maybe other than better wide receiving on offense, we can concentrate on Defense, pass rush  etc...  on next years draft and FA. The defense defiantly need some improvement.  

[aaron11]

carlos' post wasnt nonsense, macks career long is 35 yards

[ColtsLegacy]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

you could say this about any drop

 

I could, but that would be wrong. Mack's drops this year have resulted from him looking upfield before he made the catch. That is lack of concentration. 

 

It appears to me that you're grasping at straws in order to find something to knock Mack for.

Just now, aaron11 said:

carlos' post wasnt nonsense, macks career long is 35 yards

 

Lol... as I said.

[aaron11]

Just now, ColtsLegacy said:

 

I could, but that would be wrong. Mack's drops this year have resulted from him looking upfield before he made the catch. That is lack of concentration. 

 

 

no it would be right

 

im not grasping for straws, hes hasnt been any good at catching either this year or last

[ColtsLegacy]

Just now, aaron11 said:

no it would be right

 

im not grasping for straws, hes hasnt been any good at catching either this year or last

 

[aaron11]

Just now, ColtsLegacy said:

 

thank you

[jvan1973]

44 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Ahhhh.....   uhhhhh.....

 

I’d slow that roll a bit...

 

Maybe you’re right.   But Mack has been hit fir three weeks.   That’s it.

 

Can he do it the rest of the season?   Maybe.

 

Can he do it again in 2019?   Maybe.

 

That was the issue for many if us with Mack.    Can he do it year after year.   It’s a little too early to know....

 

That's a question for every back in the league.   They get pounded by guys much bigger than them almost every time they touch the ball.   It's amazing any of them can play back to back weeks.   If mack can stay healthy,  he is a top 15 back easy

[GoColts8818]

The Colts just had their first back to back games of 200 yards or more rushing since 1985.  Mack is their first back to have back to back 100 yards rushing since 2007.  Do we have to try to nit pick it or can we just enjoy the fact that something that has needed to be improved for so long seems like it might finally be?  

 

Mack isn’t Bell but Mack is just fine for the Colts offense.  They don’t need to go out and trade high draft picks for Bell or give him $15 million a year.  They have a good back in Mack.  That money and or picks would be better spent on defense and WRs.

[CamMo]

50 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Ahhhh.....   uhhhhh.....

 

I’d slow that roll a bit...

 

Maybe you’re right.   But Mack has been hit fir three weeks.   That’s it.

 

Can he do it the rest of the season?   Maybe.

 

Can he do it again in 2019?   Maybe.

 

That was the issue for many if us with Mack.    Can he do it year after year.   It’s a little too early to know....

 

 

 

True. But this proves that even if it isn’t Mack, it can be someone else for much cheaper than Bell. With AL and this OL, we can get by with a good (not great) RB.

[jvan1973]

26 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Mack almost didn't play today.  Remember he was questionable after last weeks game with yet another injury.  He has shown it the last two weeks for sure.  But can he stay healthy and take the pounding?  His longest run today would have been a touchdown for Bell.  And last weeks as well.  Behind this line Bell would go off.   Bell is a far superior pass catcher too and a threat to go the distance with every touch.   Mack has shown he's a nice back for two games.   But can he do it every week?  A question that has yet to be answered. 

How has bell done this year? Hell the Steelers don't even need his nonsense.   Conner is killing it.   Bell isn't worth 15 mill a year.   No running back is

[AZColt11]

1 hour ago, Trueman said:

Because people still don't understand OL's are more important than RB's. 

 

BINGO!  That's why CB is building it the way he is, even if it isn't sexy.

 

Colts have rushed for 200+ the past 2 weeks and have given up only ONE sack the last four games!

 

Looks pretty sexy now, doesn't it?

[horseshoecrabs]

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

How has bell done this year? Hell the Steelers don't even need his nonsense.   Conner is killing it.   Bell isn't worth 15 mill a year.   No running back is

Depends on if he is doing double duty both receiving & running. Then that might be a factor.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, horseshoecrabs said:

Depends on if he is doing double duty both receiving & running. Then that might be a factor.

No,   that's more opportunity to get hurt.   Most teams are runningback by committee for a reason.   You pay a guy 15 mill a year and he gets hurt,   your depth can't be as good.   Give me mack,  Hines and Wilkins for 11 million FOR THEIR ENTIRE CONTRACTS over bell at 15 mill A YEAR

[Surge89]

ROFL the inflating of Bell is hilarious. He's a home run hitter now? I'll repeat just as I said many months ago and people laughed at me for it.  Bell is heavily influenced by the all pro arrangement of first rounders that Pitt has on their oline. He is overrated in everything except pass catching.  But if I wanted to pay a RB like a #2 WR then I'd just go get me a top end #2 WR.  (Which the Steelers already had anyway)

 

Bell was offered more money than he should have been and was a fool not to take the offer Pit gave him. 

[horseshoecrabs]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

No,   that's more opportunity to get hurt.   Most teams are runningback by committee for a reason.   You pay a guy 15 mill a year and he gets hurt,   your depth can't be as good.   Give me mack,  Hines and Wilkins for 11 million FOR THEIR ENTIRE CONTRACTS over bell at 15 mill A YEAR

Give me a break so Marshal Faulk was not worthy as a  running and receiving back ?

You need versatility at running back just not a one dimensional that every defense knows that they can't produce outside of running the ball.

[Surge89]

42 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yup. I don't agree with the way the Steelers have handled it, either. The tag should be for players you actually want to pay, not just to force players to take a weak offer at the deadline.

 

But I definitely think Bell got some bad advice, and I highly doubt he gets the kind of offer he wants. He probably doesn't even get an offer as good as what the Steelers reportedly made at the deadline. 

 

Despite the franchise tag being bad in it's innant nature, how did the Steelers not handle this well exactly? Their offer was not weak in the slightest and was an overpayment in the first place. Short term memory.  The Steelers offer was one of the highest in history for a runningback who had multiple off the field questions and suspensions with a ton of use.  In no way did the Steelers ever short change him (they we're fools to offer that in the first place) and we're consistently trying to offer him deals throughout the past year and a half.

 

To say they handled it badly is just not correct. This is completely at the fault of the RB who overvalued himself thinking he somehow has a higher case for salary than a younger, more productive, less oline dependent Todd Gurley.  Bell bought into the hype fans gave him that he was on his way to a gold jacket and the facts say otherwise.

 

[Surge89]

2 minutes ago, horseshoecrabs said:

Give me a break so Marshal Faulk was not worthy as a  running and receiving back ?

You need versatility at running back just not a one dimensional that every defense knows that they can't produce outside of running the ball.

 

And that right there is the issue. Bell is not Faulk. It's not even close.  Faulk was a home run hitter who could inflate an oline. 

 

Bell has no where near the same running capability. He may be a similar threat as a pass catcher but as a RB you need to be a better runner before being compared to HoF RUNNING BACKS. 

[horseshoecrabs]

Just now, Surge89 said:

 

And that right there is no issue. Bell is not Faulk. It's not even close.  Faulk was a home run hitter who could inflate an oline. 

 

Bell has no where near the same running capability. He may be a similar threat as a pass catcher but as a RB you need to be a better runner before being compared to HoF RUNNING BACKS. 

I was not referring to Bell, only your concept that every running back should be pigeon holed  in to only running the ball and not being versatile.

[Surge89]

1 minute ago, horseshoecrabs said:

I was not referring to Bell, only your concept that every running back should be pigeon holed  in to only running the ball and not being versatile.

 

So how did I say running backs need to be piegeon holed?  Still facts are facts running backs (it's even in the name) need to be able to run the ball.  And if you are going to pay them elite money they need to be able to run the ball at an elite level not just catch at an elite level. 

 

This is why the RB by committee works wonders for teams.  Good teams get above average runners who can do one other thing above average like pass blocking or catching and pay a 1/4 of the salary but get the same type of production.

 

Your allusion to Marshall Faulk is a fallacy because there has been only one Marshall Faulk and yes he would have been a no brainer to pay big money.  

[Smoke317]

I’ve been saying for weeks that Mack has a smooth, gliding running style similar to Dickerson.  Felt good to hear the announcers say the exact same thing today.  

Enough of tooting my own horn though...  Almost every carry Mack gets is 1 missed tackle or bad angle from being a house call...  If he can stay healthy, he’s gonna light things up behind this offensive line because like today & just like Dickerson, he’s gonna start breaking off those longer runs more often, as Frank gets into more and more of a run play calling groove.

 

And on a side note, Hines looked damn good today too.  His spin move, tackle breaking run down by the goal line was SICK.  

 

We’ve seen Luck put the team on his back and carry us to deep playoff runs.  Sure he made mistakes with the weight of the team on his back.  Now, that we’ve given him a running game he’s looking like the QB prodigy all the pundits declared him to be.  Man he makes the game look so easy.  So easy I’d be tempted to add a young defensive piece (CB or DE) and try to make a run this year...

[VaAllDay757]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Ahhhh.....   uhhhhh.....

 

I’d slow that roll a bit...

 

Maybe you’re right.   But Mack has been hit fir three weeks.   That’s it.

 

Can he do it the rest of the season?   Maybe.

 

Can he do it again in 2019?   Maybe.

 

That was the issue for many if us with Mack.    Can he do it year after year.   It’s a little too early to know....

 

Ya'll wasn't sure because the o-line was trash but even back then mack was still making plays with a weak o-line

[Moosejawcolt]

50 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 i like mack, just not as a receiver 

K....u sign Bell for 18 million.   I believe that I can get an above average reciever and running back for that money. In the process making my team better in the long run

[Virtuoso80]

43 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

carlos' post wasnt nonsense, macks career long is 35 yards

that's wrong.  He just had a 49 yard rush today.  

[horseshoecrabs]

4 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

So how did I say running backs need to be piegeon holed?  Still facts are facts running backs (it's even in the name) need to be able to run the ball.  And if you are going to pay them elite money they need to be able to run the ball at an elite level not just catch at an elite level. 

 

This is why the RB by committee works wonders for teams.  Good teams get above average runners who can do one other thing above average like pass blocking or catching and pay a 1/4 of the salary but get the same type of production.

 

Your allusion to Marshall Faulk is a fallacy because there has been only one Marshall Faulk and yes he would have been a no brainer to pay big money.  

There is no allusion, plenty of backs in the NFL can do both

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

K....u sign Bell for 18 million.   I believe that I can get an above average reciever and running back for that money. In the process making my team better in the long run

i dont see him getting that much anymore.  no one will offer him that and he will be forced to take less or retire 

[NewColtsFan]

42 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

That's a question for every back in the league.   They get pounded by guys much bigger than them almost every time they touch the ball.   It's amazing any of them can play back to back weeks.   If mack can stay healthy,  he is a top 15 back easy

 

Look....   all I’m saying is that as recently as 22 days ago no one here knew what Mack could do.

 

No one was calling Mack the answer to our prayers.

 

The poster I was responding to was asking all the doubters to “eat crow”.   Like he knew something no one else did.   Like he’s the leader imof the Marlon Mack fan club since we drafted the kid.    

 

The vastly improved OL and the improved performance of Luck has something to do with Mack’s success.  I love the kid.   Always have.   But I’d like to see more success before proclaiming him as The Answer...    really, that’s all..

 

 

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, Virtuoso80 said:

that's wrong.  He just had a 49 yard rush today.  

good to know.  you would think i had said mack sucked and should be benched by the responses in this thread

 

in his year and half now he hasnt been any good at catching and that is a fact.  he has been good to very good at rushing obviously 

[Surge89]

4 minutes ago, horseshoecrabs said:

There is no allusion, plenty of backs in the NFL can do both

 

You alluded to Marshall Faulk... You are the one who brought him.  And yes plenty can do both but very very few can do both at an elite level.  Hence why they aren't payed as such. 

[Virtuoso80]

2017 - 21 catches  225 yards 10.7 yds/catch thats pretty good for a back up rb.

 

2018 - he's at 9.33 yds/catch so far with 6 catches for 56 yds

[Moosejawcolt]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i dont see him getting that much anymore.  no one will offer him that and he will be forced to take less or retire 

Anymore!!!!!!!.  He was never going to get 18 million.  Conner proved he is a system back.  I never bought into the Bell hype when he played.  I never saw him as an elite back.....I never ever did. Connor, I believe has proved my evaluation of  Bell.....he is not special...... !!!. When  I  watch Barkley, I c a very special player and a chance to b a generational back much like Adrian  Peterson. Bell reads well and was a good reciever.  To pay any back 18 million, he better have elite speed.  The ability to take it to the house on every carry.  Bell doesn't even come close to this requirement.  

[horseshoecrabs]

Just now, Surge89 said:

 

You alluded to Marshall Faulk... You are the one who brought him.  And yes plenty can do both but very very few can do both at an elite level.  Hence why they aren't payed as such. 

 I only used him as an example to your ludicrous assumption that running  backs should be one dimensional, Einstein. and used only as a running back. with no thought to receiving. 

[VaAllDay757]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Look....   all I’m saying is that as recently as 22 days ago no one here knew what Mack could do.

 

No one was calling Mack the answer to our prayers.

 

The poster I was responding to was asking all the doubters to “eat crow”.   Like he knew something no one else did.   Like he’s the leader imof the Marlon Mack fan club since we drafted the kid.    

 

The vastly improved OL and the improved performance of Luck has something to do with Mack’s success.  I love the kid.   Always have.   But I’d like to see more success before proclaiming him as The Answer...    really, that’s all..

 

 

If you don't like to hear I told you so then sign off but alot ya'll wrote mack off because we drafted 2 RBS this season lol yes the o-line has improved alot but mack was making plays when the o-line wasn't much of nothing

[Superman]

23 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Despite the franchise tag being bad in it's innant nature, how did the Steelers not handle this well exactly? Their offer was not weak in the slightest and was an overpayment in the first place. Short term memory.  The Steelers offer was one of the highest in history for a runningback who had multiple off the field questions and suspensions with a ton of use.  In no way did the Steelers ever short change him (they we're fools to offer that in the first place) and we're consistently trying to offer him deals throughout the past year and a half.

 

To say they handled it badly is just not correct. This is completely at the fault of the RB who overvalued himself thinking he somehow has a higher case for salary than a younger, more productive, less oline dependent Todd Gurley.  Bell bought into the hype fans gave him that he was on his way to a gold jacket and the facts say otherwise.

 

 

Nope.

 

We didn't see the details of the offer, but the story goes they offered him a $10m signing bonus and a smallish Year 1 salary, and the structure would have only guaranteed him through 2018. For the Steelers, they wouldn't have been committing any more years or money than the tag already committed. 

 

They made this offer at the deadline, take it or leave it. Two weeks later, Todd Gurley gets $22m guaranteed, with $45m likely to be paid. I get that Gurley has more value than Bell, but Gurley was still two years away from being tagged. I think Bell had a market, but I definitely think he overvalued himself.

 

And really, the problem with the way they handled Bell is they tagged him two years in a row and then didn't make any legitimate offers until the deadline. I'm not sure where you get the idea that they were consistently offering him deals for a year and a half; they didn't.

[Surge89]

1 minute ago, horseshoecrabs said:

 I only used him as an example to your ludicrous assumption that running  backs should be one dimensional, Einstein. and used only as a running back. with no thought to receiving. 

 

Are you confusing me with someone else?  I have never said running backs should be one dimensional.  This isn't even a conversation about that.  This about why paying Bell at his demanded price was a bad idea to begin with.  I would get your people straight before attempting to insult Mr. Einstein. 

[BOTT]

19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Look....   all I’m saying is that as recently as 22 days ago no one here knew what Mack could do.

 

No one was calling Mack the answer to our prayers.

 

The poster I was responding to was asking all the doubters to “eat crow”.   Like he knew something no one else did.   Like he’s the leader imof the Marlon Mack fan club since we drafted the kid.    

 

The vastly improved OL and the improved performance of Luck has something to do with Mack’s success.  I love the kid.   Always have.   But I’d like to see more success before proclaiming him as The Answer...    really, that’s all..

 

 

No one = BOTT

[horseshoecrabs]

11 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Are you confusing me with someone else?  I have never said running backs should be one dimensional.  This isn't even a conversation about that.  This about why paying Bell at his demanded price was a bad idea to begin with.  I would get your people straight before attempting to insult Mr. Einstein. 

Ok, I guess we are talking about different subjects thus the  confusion. I was never talking about getting or paying To get Bell, My bad, Only about the versatility of a running back that can also be a threat at receiving. If I offended your subject matter then I apologize to you. I was only alliterating  to the fact, of the benefit of having a running back, that have the versatility of doing double duty out of the back field to keep the defense honest. 

[Lawrence Owen]

2 minutes ago, BOTT said:

No one = BOTT

You're not the only one. There were many members of this forum saying 3-4 weeks ago, "wait until Mack gets healthy, our run game will be better'.  I was pro Mack as well.  Especially knowing how he did last year playing the entire year with a torn labrum.

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

Mack almost didn't play today.  Remember he was questionable after last weeks game with yet another injury.  He has shown it the last two weeks for sure.  But can he stay healthy and take the pounding?  His longest run today would have been a touchdown for Bell.  And last weeks as well.  Behind this line Bell would go off.   Bell is a far superior pass catcher too and a threat to go the distance with every touch.   Mack has shown he's a nice back for two games.   But can he do it every week?  A question that has yet to be answered. 

A bell and mack tag team would be fun but we could use an elite pass rusher or cb more

[horseshoecrabs]

2 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

You're not the only one. There were many members of this forum saying 3-4 weeks ago, "wait until Mack gets healthy, our run game will be better'.  I was pro Mack as well.  Especially knowing how he did last year playing the entire year with a torn labrum.

I think the main concern at the time in this forum, was more about his durability, than his talent level. that was the main concern. 

[Surge89]

18 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Nope.

 

We didn't see the details of the offer, but the story goes they offered him a $10m signing bonus and a smallish Year 1 salary, and the structure would have only guaranteed him through 2018. For the Steelers, they wouldn't have been committing any more years or money than the tag already committed. 

 

They made this offer at the deadline, take it or leave it. Two weeks later, Todd Gurley gets $22m guaranteed, with $45m likely to be paid. I get that Gurley has more value than Bell, but Gurley was still two years away from being tagged. I think Bell had a market, but I definitely think he overvalued himself.

 

And really, the problem with the way they handled Bell is they tagged him two years in a row and then didn't make any legitimate offers until the deadline. I'm not sure where you get the idea that they were consistently offering him deals for a year and a half; they didn't.

 

Hmm 

 

So here is one. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/leveon-bell-reportedly-turned-down-a-monstrous-70-million-deal-from-the-steelers/amp/

 

That's 14 mil per year.

 

Then we have this https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/platform/amp/nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-news/2017/7/19/15994860/steelers-rejected-5-year-offer-to-leveon-bell-released-to-the-public-franchise-tag

 

This was 12mil per year a whole year before.

 

Then we have the original offer that you are mentioning https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2799309-report-leveon-bell-offered-3-year-47m-contract-from-steelers-in-summer.amp.html&ved=2ahUKEwjl4r2exKreAhVIC6wKHRFyAWUQFjAGegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0mQlD4lTRLRIjiST0UoR2w&ampcf=1

 

Which is still overpayment I'm not sure how you justify that it wasn't.