Marlon Mack / Le'Veon Bell

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

I am sure that I will get tarred and feathered....... BUT

 

I actually would STILL like Bell.... for some of the reasons that you brought up

 

Ask yourself a question.... If cost was no issue......would we be BETTER as a team if we had Bell?  

 

I think the honest answer is YES

 

He is a 2 times an ALL Pro.... He is still 26. (without this years wear and tear)

 

We have the cash...... When he hits FA....... It wouldnt cost us draft capitol

 

Can you imagine how tough it would be to defense this offense with Bell and Mack interchangable..... and in some cases one at HB, at the same time?

 

Imagine this with a healthy TY, with our improving OL mashing people, With a great QB, With very good TEs...........Add in a decent 2nd WR.....  We could actually have an UNSTOPPABLE offense not in 5 years.........NEXT year..........  

 

If we could get 3-4 players on defense, (draft and FA) for next year.........  We could make a real run.... in 2019

 

A top 3 offense, and a top 15 defense, could do the trick.......

 

This defense is at its best, when it has a lead......

 

Also.......... Both Bell and Mack would have longer careers by spreading the carries, and both would be fresh in the 4th quarter.

 

I know....its a pipe dream, but the Colts DO have the cash to make this happen and STILL have $90-100 Million left over (Which would STILL be more than almost all other teams to play with)

 

I dont know if Bell is a prima donna or not. (and neither does anyone here on the board) If he is...... I dont want him,..... if he is a locker-room cancer...... I dont want him.

 

The guy was offered HALF of the guaranteed money of the top WRs....... WHY should he be happy with that?  A RB's career is almost always shorter.

 

This doesnt make him some evil guy.

 

My belief is he is a great talent that would help this football team and add depth where we need it

 

Lastly

Luck has probably completed ONE THIRD of his career.......  We dont need to win the SB this year..... But.......  the clock is ticking......

 

Bell MIGHT be that missing piece to get us there

 

 

 

^^^ No arguments from me ^^^

 

 

[Surge89]

4 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I am sure that I will get tarred and feathered....... BUT

 

I actually would STILL like Bell.... for some of the reasons that you brought up

 

Ask yourself a question.... If cost was no issue......would we be BETTER as a team if we had Bell?  

 

I think the honest answer is YES

 

He is a 2 times an ALL Pro.... He is still 26. (without this years wear and tear)

 

We have the cash...... When he hits FA....... It wouldnt cost us draft capitol

 

Can you imagine how tough it would be to defense this offense with Bell and Mack interchangable..... and in some cases one at HB, at the same time?

 

Imagine this with a healthy TY, with our improving OL mashing people, With a great QB, With very good TEs...........Add in a decent 2nd WR.....  We could actually have an UNSTOPPABLE offense not in 5 years.........NEXT year..........  

 

If we could get 3-4 players on defense, (draft and FA) for next year.........  We could make a real run.... in 2019

 

A top 3 offense, and a top 15 defense, could do the trick.......

 

This defense is at its best, when it has a lead......

 

Also.......... Both Bell and Mack would have longer careers by spreading the carries, and both would be fresh in the 4th quarter.

 

I know....its a pipe dream, but the Colts DO have the cash to make this happen and STILL have $90-100 Million left over (Which would STILL be more than almost all other teams to play with)

 

I dont know if Bell is a prima donna or not. (and neither does anyone here on the board) If he is...... I dont want him,..... if he is a locker-room cancer...... I dont want him.

 

The guy was offered HALF of the guaranteed money of the top WRs....... WHY should he be happy with that?  A RB's career is almost always shorter.

 

This doesnt make him some evil guy.

 

My belief is he is a great talent that would help this football team and add depth where we need it

 

Lastly

Luck has probably completed ONE THIRD of his career.......  We dont need to win the SB this year..... But.......  the clock is ticking......

 

Bell MIGHT be that missing piece to get us there

 

 

 

 

You make a ton of sense but the initial statement is what makes the rest flawed. There is piling evidence that grows by each week Bell misses that shows he is less special than his outstanding multiple first round pick oline. You state that he is no doubt an improvement to this team yet can you say he's a better runner than Mack? Mack has higher chances of taking it to the house, Mack runs a much more traditional style which is easier for olineman to block for (unlike Bell and his hold them for 10 seconds style) and Mack honestly has a higher ceiling.  

 

Bell can do 2 things better.  He can catch it and he can pass protect.  And those 2 things are awesome but also come with a heavily inflated contract, an easily disgruntled player, a player with suspension history, and a questionable passion for the game.  Add all of that up and I don't think the answer is so cut and dry as you make it.  In fact I'd argue he'd be more detrimental than an asset. But that's solely on my biased opinion. 

[MikeCurtis]

4 hours ago, Surge89 said:

 

 

You make a ton of sense but the initial statement is what makes the rest flawed. There is piling evidence that grows by each week Bell misses that shows he is less special than his outstanding multiple first round pick oline. You state that he is no doubt an improvement to this team yet can you say he's a better runner than Mack? Mack has higher chances of taking it to the house, Mack runs a much more traditional style which is easier for olineman to block for (unlike Bell and his hold them for 10 seconds style) and Mack honestly has a higher ceiling.  

 

Bell can do 2 things better.  He can catch it and he can pass protect.  And those 2 things are awesome but also come with a heavily inflated contract, an easily disgruntled player, a player with suspension history, and a questionable passion for the game.  Add all of that up and I don't think the answer is so cut and dry as you make it.  In fact I'd argue he'd be more detrimental than an asset. But that's solely on my biased opinion. 

 

You may actually be making my overall point

 

Bell is EXCELLENT in some areas (3 pro bowls, 2 ALL Pros level of excellent)

 

Mack is EXCELLENT in some areas (EXTREMELY small sample size)

 

They are different

 

We agree

 

These DIFFERENCES would make the Colts VERY hard to game plan against

 

This dink and dunk offense is built for a RB that can run and catch

 

AND........ When they go off script and go deep, the RB better be able to block

 

Bell is a fantastic blocker.

 

Its probably NOT going to happen....... But it would improve this offense

 

And when one gets hurt for a game or two (As RBs always do) we would still have a great offense

 

Anyone notice that Fournette has been injured the same time that the Jags are losing?  

[braveheartcolt]

A nice discussion brewing here, but it really is irrelevant. No way will Ballard strike a move for Bell. 

[jskinnz]

26 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

A nice discussion brewing here, but it really is irrelevant. No way will Ballard strike a move for Bell. 

 

Let me take that further.

 

1) When there was a potential price to pay in the way of draft picks, he was not going to make a move for Bell.

2) In the coming off season when the only cost to get Bell will be to outbid anyone for his services, Ballard will not make a move for Bell.

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

9 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

A good argument. I don't see it happening though, not a Ballard phillosophy type move I'm afraid. His line of thinking is that a top level big money aquisition like Bell could upset the locker room vibe.....

Great thought, and what you say is VERY important, and as a fan, Im NOT in the actual locker room, I DONT KNOW how he would effect the team. 

 

My thoughts come from what I see on the field, sitting on my keester, eating bob bons during the game

 

I have to take it at face value.

 

I dont know if he is a jerk or is he someone that would work with the young players, to help build the team

 

I cant answer that question.... and I have that question as well

 

I tend to side with him on the salary negotiations

 

The media and some fans like to say .......  "Bell turned down a $70 Million contract"

 

In my job, I am involved on contracts constantly

The fact is...... when one party can cut and run on a contract, it doesnt really count

 

The guaranteed money is what the players and agents look at the most.  Its the ONLY part of the contract where the second party is held accountable

 

The players and fans up until this year in Pittsburgh seemed to love the guy. There are no comments that I have seen, where he was a cancer.

 

Lets compare the contracts with the reciever from NY

 

Odell B from NY...... a great contributor, recieved $65 Million in guaranteed money.

 

In Odell's BEST year, he touched the ball 102 times. He scored 10 Touchdowns

 

If Odell blows out a Knee, and cant walk again....... He gets 65 Million

 

In Bell's Best year, he touched the ball 353 times. He scored 11 Touchdowns

 

Bell has 3 Pro bowls, and 2 ALL Pro seasons. Odell has 3 Pro Bowl seasons (No ALL Pros)

 

If Bell blows out a knee, and cant walk again...... He gets 14.5 Million

 

Is Odell more valuable to his team than Bell?

 

News (rumors) are that he is a bad apple and not a good team mate for not signing.

 

$65 Mil vs $14.5 Mil ..... Thats a CROCK

 

He also went along with the Steelers and played on the tag one year already....... Then they tag him again? With a crappy contract as door number 2?

 

I look at it from my own position

 

I am responsible for the Central US.  I am told I do a good job. If I found out that the East coast manager was guaranteed 3X what I was making..... I might not be so happy

 

So..... short story long........  Bell may not be the bad apple that some are making him out to be

 

On the surface, without all the facts on his character, he would help this team

 

[braveheartcolt]

44 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Great thought, and what you say is VERY important, and as a fan, Im NOT in the actual locker room, I DONT KNOW how he would effect the team. 

 

My thoughts come from what I see on the field, sitting on my keester, eating bob bons during the game

 

I have to take it at face value.

 

I dont know if he is a jerk or is he someone that would work with the young players, to help build the team

 

I cant answer that question.... and I have that question as well

 

I tend to side with him on the salary negotiations

 

The media and some fans like to say .......  "Bell turned down a $70 Million contract"

 

In my job, I am involved on contracts constantly

The fact is...... when one party can cut and run on a contract, it doesnt really count

 

The guaranteed money is what the players and agents look at the most.  Its the ONLY part of the contract where the second party is held accountable

 

The players and fans up until this year in Pittsburgh seemed to love the guy. There are no comments that I have seen, where he was a cancer.

 

Lets compare the contracts with the reciever from NY

 

Odell B from NY...... a great contributor, recieved $65 Million in guaranteed money.

 

In Odell's BEST year, he touched the ball 102 times. He scored 10 Touchdowns

 

If Odell blows out a Knee, and cant walk again....... He gets 65 Million

 

In Bell's Best year, he touched the ball 353 times. He scored 11 Touchdowns

 

Bell has 3 Pro bowls, and 2 ALL Pro seasons. Odell has 3 Pro Bowl seasons (No ALL Pros)

 

If Bell blows out a knee, and cant walk again...... He gets 14.5 Million

 

Is Odell more valuable to his team than Bell?

 

News (rumors) are that he is a bad apple and not a good team mate for not signing.

 

$65 Mil vs $14.5 Mil ..... Thats a CROCK

 

He also went along with the Steelers and played on the tag one year already....... Then they tag him again? With a crappy contract as door number 2?

 

I look at it from my own position

 

I am responsible for the Central US.  I am told I do a good job. If I found out that the East coast manager was guaranteed 3X what I was making..... I might not be so happy

 

So..... short story long........  Bell may not be the bad apple that some are making him out to be

 

On the surface, without all the facts on his character, he would help this team

 

Not suggesting he is a bad apple whatsoever. I mean we have all these rookies and FA's on comparitively low money, and enter stage right, a noobie on loads of dosh. That is Ballards concern, paraphrased.

[MikeCurtis]

59 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Not suggesting he is a bad apple whatsoever. I mean we have all these rookies and FA's on comparitively low money, and enter stage right, a noobie on loads of dosh. That is Ballards concern, paraphrased.

You and I share the same concern

[colt18]

Mack has been a monster so far, hopefully he can keep this up and become our RB of the future.

[throwing BBZ]

22 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I am sure that I will get tarred and feathered....... BUT

 

I actually would STILL like Bell.... for some of the reasons that you brought up

 

Ask yourself a question.... If cost was no issue......would we be BETTER as a team if we had Bell?  

 

I think the honest answer is YES

 

He is a 2 times an ALL Pro.... He is still 26. (without this years wear and tear)

 

We have the cash...... When he hits FA....... It wouldnt cost us draft capitol

 

Can you imagine how tough it would be to defense this offense with Bell and Mack interchangable..... and in some cases one at HB, at the same time?

 

Imagine this with a healthy TY, with our improving OL mashing people, With a great QB, With very good TEs...........Add in a decent 2nd WR.....  We could actually have an UNSTOPPABLE offense not in 5 years.........NEXT year..........  

 

If we could get 3-4 players on defense, (draft and FA) for next year.........  We could make a real run.... in 2019

 

A top 3 offense, and a top 15 defense, could do the trick.......

 

This defense is at its best, when it has a lead......

 

Also.......... Both Bell and Mack would have longer careers by spreading the carries, and both would be fresh in the 4th quarter.

 

I know....its a pipe dream, but the Colts DO have the cash to make this happen and STILL have $90-100 Million left over (Which would STILL be more than almost all other teams to play with)

 

I dont know if Bell is a prima donna or not. (and neither does anyone here on the board) If he is...... I dont want him,..... if he is a locker-room cancer...... I dont want him.

 

The guy was offered HALF of the guaranteed money of the top WRs....... WHY should he be happy with that?  A RB's career is almost always shorter.

 

This doesnt make him some evil guy.

 

My belief is he is a great talent that would help this football team and add depth where we need it

 

Lastly

Luck has probably completed ONE THIRD of his career.......  We dont need to win the SB this year..... But.......  the clock is ticking......

 

Bell MIGHT be that missing piece to get us there

 

 

 

 

I hope Ballard offers him a 3yr deal at about $25M fully guaranteed. Or draft another RB he really likes in the 4th or 5th round. With this line we will be excellent at running the ball either way.  And have a very good passing attack either way also.

[richard pallo]

I read in an article, I think by Florio,  that now that the trade deadline has passed they could just recind the tag and he becomes a FA immediately.  They would just accept the fact that they would get the compensatory 3rd. rd. pick.  Interesting way to move on from a headache.  

[Finball]

37 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I read in an article, I think by Florio,  that now that the trade deadline has passed they could just recind the tag and he becomes a FA immediately.  They would just accept the fact that they would get the compensatory 3rd. rd. pick.  Interesting way to move on from a headache.  

 

If they rescind the tag now, they don't get compensatory pick. But save cap space.

[gspdx]

"If cost was no issue"  - how can cost not be an issue.  Any money you spend on him is money you can't spend elsewhere.  It's called opportunity cost.  If we are spending big money on one running back and in a the next couple of years we need to re-sign guys we could be in a situation where we don't have the flexibility we need.

 

This is always the main reason I am concerned about spending big money on FAs.  

 

Would I like to have Bell's talent - yes!  But not at the price he wants.

[Chet Pinkney]

We finally need to acquire a Real dual threat like Bell. Mack doesn’t have that skill set. Neither does Conner for that matter. 

 

Colts should utilize some of our huge cap space and finally get a Real replacement for Gore! Just image Luck,  the ghost, Ebron, Doyle, and Bell! It’ll be over! We’ll return to the dominant era that existed when Peyton had Wayne, Garcion, and Saturday! 

[jvan1973]

10 minutes ago, Chet Pinkney said:

We finally need to acquire a Real dual threat like Bell. Mack doesn’t have that skill set. Neither does Conner for that matter. 

 

Colts should utilize some of our huge cap space and finally get a Real replacement for Gore! Just image Luck,  the ghost, Ebron, Doyle, and Bell! It’ll be over! We’ll return to the dominant era that existed when Peyton had Wayne, Garcion, and Saturday! 

Ballard is never gonna pay what he wants.    Pipe dream

[BOTT]

21 minutes ago, Chet Pinkney said:

We finally need to acquire a Real dual threat like Bell. Mack doesn’t have that skill set. Neither does Conner for that matter. 

 

Colts should utilize some of our huge cap space and finally get a Real replacement for Gore! Just image Luck,  the ghost, Ebron, Doyle, and Bell! It’ll be over! We’ll return to the dominant era that existed when Peyton had Wayne, Garcion, and Saturday! 

Garçon??  Marv read that % you best run for cover cause he does not play.

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Ballard is never gonna pay what he wants.    Pipe dream

If we make the playoffs or get close Ballard is going to finally spend some cap space and Bell would fit his MO.  Again today Mack shows very little and Hines has two drops.  The door definitely remains open for Bell.  Money by itself is not the issue.  It's guaranteed money.  That's what killed the Steeler deal.  Ballard will find a way to make it a win win for both sides if he thinks he could be a difference maker for us.  It will play itself out soon enough. 

[jvan1973]

8 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

If we make the playoffs or get close Ballard is going to finally spend some cap space and Bell would fit his MO.  Again today Mack shows very little and Hines has two drops.  The door definitely remains open for Bell.  Money by itself is not the issue.  It's guaranteed money.  That's what killed the Steeler deal.  Ballard will find a way to make it a win win for both sides if he thinks he could be a difference maker for us.  It will play itself out soon enough. 

If you think Ballard is going to give a huge contract to a running back with a lot of miles on him and a ton of baggage,   you haven't been paying attention.     

[BOTT]

10 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

If we make the playoffs or get close Ballard is going to finally spend some cap space and Bell would fit his MO.  Again today Mack shows very little and Hines has two drops.  The door definitely remains open for Bell.  Money by itself is not the issue.  It's guaranteed money.  That's what killed the Steeler deal.  Ballard will find a way to make it a win win for both sides if he thinks he could be a difference maker for us.  It will play itself out soon enough. 

If the colts had bell they would have beat the Titans by 28!!

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

If the colts had bell they would have beat the Titans by 28!!

No.  49!

[a06cc]

6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

If you think Ballard is going to give a huge contract to a running back with a lot of miles on him and a ton of baggage,   you haven't been paying attention.     

Agree with that. We can also draft someone. 

[SteelCityColt]

The cynic in me wonders if the bidding for Bell began long ago.

[Farns01]

Maybe more credit for Bell's success should be the Pittsburgh O-line.  His replacement is putting up just as good numbers as Bell has done.  The money would be better spent on improving the team as a whole than just one narssistic player.

[superrep1967]

On 10/28/2018 at 8:34 PM, Moosejawcolt said:

If I recall, I believe his agent wanted him to sign a favourable contract last year.  Bell said no and he wanted 18 Million this year.  I think the bad advice he  is getting is from him when he stands in front of the mirror and tells himself how great he is.  I do also agree that Pitttsburgh handled it wrong. Should have traded him

You can't trade an unsigned player. 

28 minutes ago, BOTT said:

If the colts had bell they would have beat the Titans by 28!!

Exactly!

[Tombstone]

On 10/31/2018 at 1:21 AM, Surge89 said:

 

 

You make a ton of sense but the initial statement is what makes the rest flawed. There is piling evidence that grows by each week Bell misses that shows he is less special than his outstanding multiple first round pick oline. You state that he is no doubt an improvement to this team yet can you say he's a better runner than Mack? Mack has higher chances of taking it to the house, Mack runs a much more traditional style which is easier for olineman to block for (unlike Bell and his hold them for 10 seconds style) and Mack honestly has a higher ceiling.  

 

Bell can do 2 things better.  He can catch it and he can pass protect.  And those 2 things are awesome but also come with a heavily inflated contract, an easily disgruntled player, a player with suspension history, and a questionable passion for the game.  Add all of that up and I don't think the answer is so cut and dry as you make it.  In fact I'd argue he'd be more detrimental than an asset. But that's solely on my biased opinion. 

I will add a 3rd thing he does better, brake tackles.  Hopefully Mack will get stronger and do the same

[Calmack]

I love Mack, but he's the most average RB I've seen. Everything done ok, nothing specular. Bell is an upgrade in my opinion. 

[BOTT]

18 minutes ago, Calmack said:

I love Mack, but he's the most average RB I've seen. Everything done ok, nothing specular. Bell is an upgrade in my opinion. 

It's not about bell vs Mack, it's bell vs Mack, Hines, and Wilkins. Together they average just over 5 ypc.....better than Bell has ever done. Throw in 55 combine catches i would say that's pretty good.

[Superman]

[Calmack]

2 minutes ago, BOTT said:

It's not about bell vs Mack, it's bell vs Mack, Hines, and Wilkins. Together they average just over 5 ypc.....better than Bell has ever done. Throw in 55 combine catches i would say that's pretty good.

Im talking about Bell and Mack. No idea how the others factor in. Its not like if we acquire Bell, Hines and Wilkins simply disappear. In fact, they'll be his teammates. Instant upgrade for our RB group. 

[BOTT]

1 minute ago, Calmack said:

Im talking about Bell and Mack. No idea how the others factor in. Its not like if we acquire Bell, Hines and Wilkins simply disappear. In fact, they'll be his teammates. Instant upgrade for our RB group. 

Bell is an every down back who is going to get a huge contract.....Hines and Wilkins would see much less playing time. 

[richard pallo]

No teams worry about or has to game plan for our running game.  Even with our awesome OL. The best teams in the league currently have running games you have to account for and plan to defend against.  Not the Colts.  Bell would change that instantly and make our offense even better and more effective and hard to defend against.  

[Calmack]

5 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Bell is an every down back who is going to get a huge contract.....Hines and Wilkins would see much less playing time. 

Ok? Bell behind this line would render them nearly obsolete and that would be just fine. They're good role players no doubt though. 

[Trueman]

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

LOL

No amount of reason and logic will turn fans off a big name skill position player. 

It is what it is. 

 

[BOTT]

8 minutes ago, Calmack said:

Ok? Bell behind this line would render them nearly obsolete and that would be just fine. They're good role players no doubt though. 

Why pay millions more for a player with quite a few miles on him when you can get the same production from a running back by committee approach?

[Calmack]

3 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Why pay millions more for a player with quite a few miles on him when you can get the same production from a running back by committee approach?

He will be overpriced yeah. No doubt on that. But we will have a boatload of cap space. If he can do what Mack can't (which is break tackles, be a consistent receiving weapon, and find the whole every time) then I don't care what he'll cost. Hines and Wilkins are good role players. Give them a featured role and I doubt they'd be nearly as effective as they have been. You have no idea now much cap space we have. And we have to use a certain amount of it anyways. 

[Dingus McGirt]

3 minutes ago, Calmack said:

He will be overpriced yeah. No doubt on that. But we will have a boatload of cap space. If he can do what Mack can't (which is break tackles, be a consistent receiving weapon, and find the whole every time) then I don't care what he'll cost. Hines and Wilkins are good role players. Give them a featured role and I doubt they'd be nearly as effective as they have been. You have no idea now much cap space we have. And we have to use a certain amount of it anyways. 

Thank goodness Ballard and Irsay care what he would cost.

[King Colt]

I'm not yet sold on Mack. There are many backs that are better.

[Calmack]

Just now, Dingus McGirt said:

Thank goodness Ballard and Irsay care what he would cost.

How much damage will his monstrous contract cause us? Consider our cap space and who we need to re-sign. People like you act like he will have a 35 mil cap hit each year..

[Dingus McGirt]

Sorry, sir.  I'm a business owner. So I think of it a bit differently.  Why spend big $$ on a single, worn and temperamental piece of equipment, when I can have 2-3 fairly new like items for much less $$?

[BOTT]

11 minutes ago, Calmack said:

He will be overpriced yeah. No doubt on that. But we will have a boatload of cap space. If he can do what Mack can't (which is break tackles, be a consistent receiving weapon, and find the whole every time) then I don't care what he'll cost. Hines and Wilkins are good role players. Give them a featured role and I doubt they'd be nearly as effective as they have been. You have no idea now much cap space we have. And we have to use a certain amount of it anyways. 

I'm aware of how much cap space the colts have.  I just wouldnt spend it a guy who has some miles on him, has failed drugs tests,  has tore his ACL, only averaged 4 ypc last time he played, and would only be a marginal (if any) upgrade to the colts RB committee.  I wouldn't be upset if they signed Bell, I just don't see the point.