Eric Ebron having himself a season

[DalTXColtsFan]

Eric has 6 TDs.  No other TE in the NFL has more than 3.  He's also #4 in catches and #8 in yards per game among TEs.  Not too shabby.

 

Gonna be awfully tough to make the ProBowl in the same conference as Kelce, Gronk and Jared Cook but tough to argue he isn't producing.

 

Gronk holds the record for TDs by a TE in a season with 17.  Eric is on pace to match that.

[pgt_rob]

He's been a nice addition and it looks like Andrew Luck loves him. Even though he has an occasional drop, he makes some tough catches and has been finding the end zone each game. I hope he continues to play this well for us. Jack Doyel has some competition.

[DalTXColtsFan]

I hope Jack Doyle is not looking at Ebron as competition, rather as a coverage absorber.  I'm licking my chops thinking about 2 TE sets with both of them on the field.

[Devildog]

Indeed. 

[MPStack]

2 minutes ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

I hope Jack Doyle is not looking at Ebron as competition, rather as a coverage absorber.  I'm licking my chops thinking about 2 TE sets with both of them on the field.

Jack Doyle is way overhyped on this board!

[coltfaninnewyork]

Don't know Doyle injury update but would a trade to a contender be a possibility?Chargers has to sign gates a few weeks ago he looks like toast .

[Calmack]

2 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Jack Doyle is way overhyped on this board!

Yeah he isnt gonna suddenly turn into a stud because Ebron is drawing coverage. 

[MPStack]

Just now, Calmack said:

Yeah he isnt gonna suddenly turn into a stud because Ebron is drawing coverage. 

I think he gets a lot of local boy love. Yes, he’s a good blocker, but if you look at his career stats, Ebron has already eclipsed everything Doyle has done, except for receptions in a season.

[DougDew]

I don't understand the notion of measuring the success of a TE by the number of yards or TDs. 

 

That's how you measure a WR, no?  If you want to say Ebron is a big WR playing from the split-TE position that's fine, but neither he, Swoope, Fleener, Kelce, or many others in that role are really a TE, IMO.

 

Gronk is, as was Jason Whitten was, as is Doyle for that matter.

 

How about measuring TEs production in terms of first downs instead of touchdowns?

 

Conversely, TYs value isn't in terms of converting first downs as much as it is in getting chunk yards (total yards) and TDs.  Are you going to hold Ryan Grant up to the same standard?

[dodsworth]

8 minutes ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

I hope Jack Doyle is not looking at Ebron as competition, rather as a coverage absorber.  I'm licking my chops thinking about 2 TE sets with both of them on the field.

They are a little more dependable to catch the ball than most of our receivers.

[B~Town]

Great to see what he adds to this team so many on here are eating there crow seemed very few liked the Ebron and Slauson pick ups .

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I don't understand the notion of measuring the success of a TE by the number of yards or TDs. 

 

Well, it’s a passing league now and Gonzalez, Gates, Whitten, Kelce and Gronk have all been legitimate All Pros at their position. So, stats IMO matter more so than not. I can’t remember the last time a strictly blocking TE (which I’m not saying Doyle is) made the Pro Bowl. And in regards to Doyle making the Pro Bowl, well he was an alternate because most of the big names no longer go! Just my two cents, but I don’t think Doyle is a weapon. He a slight above average TE.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

How about measuring TEs production in terms of first downs instead of touchdowns?

 

Huh? The team that scores the most points wins. Unless you have the lead and you're trying to kill the clock, a touchdown is significantly more valuable than a first down. The position of the player scoring the TD doesn't matter. 

 

But since we're talking about first downs, Ebron has 16 of them, on 30 catches. He's tied for 5th in the league, among TEs. So you can measure his production either way, he's still among the best in the league at his position right now. 

[Valpo2004]

37 minutes ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

I hope Jack Doyle is not looking at Ebron as competition, rather as a coverage absorber.  I'm licking my chops thinking about 2 TE sets with both of them on the field.

 

I'm hoping we can get Jack Doyle back just for having another reliable set of hands on the field.  

 

On offense one of the things that has been killing us is drops.  

 

Doyle and Ebron will likely play a lot at the same time because the hands of most of our wide receivers are not that good.  

[richard pallo]

Looks like he's having an all pro season to me. 

[DougDew]

43 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Huh? The team that scores the most points wins. Unless you have the lead and you're trying to kill the clock, a touchdown is significantly more valuable than a first down. The position of the player scoring the TD doesn't matter. 

 

But since we're talking about first downs, Ebron has 16 of them, on 30 catches. He's tied for 5th in the league, among TEs. So you can measure his production either way, he's still among the best in the league at his position right now. 

Huh?  Then I guess LTs are worth even less because they rank pretty low on the TD stats. 

 

When asked to pass block or run block, any player takes themselves out of the yardage/TD stat opportunity. 

 

The players that aren't asked to block as much catch more passes, more yards, more first downs.  Those players are called receivers. 

 

So yes, I have an issue with comparing yardage/TD stats of guys like Kelce, Ebron, and Fleener to guys like Whitten, Doyle, and Allen. 

 

They don't have the same job, even though the NFL uses the same job title to label them.

 

If their job is to primarily catch the ball, why not compare them all to Julio Jones?

 

If you want to say that we should keep Ebron instead of looking for a slot receiver, I can buy into that discussion.  But comparing him to Doyle just because he's called a TE I think is misguided.

 

BTW, I never understood the Fleener vs Allen debate for the same reason.  They were different players asked to do different things, and therefore would accumulate different stats.

 

[Superman]

27 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Huh?  Then I guess LTs are worth even less because they rank pretty low on the TD stats. 

 

When asked to pass block or run block, any player takes themselves out of the yardage/TD stat opportunity. 

 

The players that aren't asked to block as much catch more passes, more yards, more first downs.  Those players are called receivers. 

 

So yes, I have an issue with comparing yardage/TD stats of guys like Kelce, Ebron, and Fleener to guys like Whitten, Doyle, and Allen. 

 

They don't have the same job, even though the NFL uses the same job title to label them.

 

If their job is to primarily catch the ball, why not compare them all to Julio Jones?

 

If you want to say that we should keep Ebron instead of looking for a slot receiver, I can buy into that discussion.  But comparing him to Doyle just because he's called a TE I think is misguided.

 

BTW, I never understood the Fleener vs Allen debate for the same reason.  They were different players asked to do different things, and therefore would accumulate different stats.

 

 

You're the one drawing an unfavorable comparison between the two, and on specious grounds. I'm perfectly happy to have both of them, even though they have different skill sets and different responsibilities. Your recognition that not all TEs are the same isn't revolutionary, and your preference for more traditional TEs like Doyle over hybrid receiving TEs like Ebron isn't exclusive to you. But a good offense can make room for both.

 

Btw, LTs don't run routes and catch passes, which is why we don't judge them using receiving stats. Same reason we don't judge RBs based on kicking percentage. TEs who run routes get judged, at least partly, on receiving stats. That doesn't mean we can't identify and acknowledge TEs who add value in other ways. 

 

And just like we recognize the difference between traditional TEs vs hybrid TEs, we clearly recognize the difference between TEs, slot receivers, and outside receivers. It's why we judge Golden Tate differently from the way we judge Desean Jackson. And again, a good offense can make room for a variety of skill players across all the skill positions.

 

But still, regardless what position you play, TDs are more valuable than first downs, almost always. And that judgment is specific to skill players, since they are the players either gaining first downs or scoring TDs. This judgment obviously doesn't apply to offensive linemen.

 

Edit: And we don't need to compare any of our TEs over the last 7 years to Jason Witten, who is a future HOFer and easily a top ten TE in the modern NFL. Doyle is more in the Witten mold, but he doesn't do anything as well as Witten did in his prime.

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You're the one drawing an unfavorable comparison between the two, and on specious grounds. I'm perfectly happy to have both of them, even though they have different skill sets and different responsibilities. Your recognition that not all TEs are the same isn't revolutionary, and your preference for more traditional TEs like Doyle over hybrid receiving TEs like Ebron isn't exclusive to you. But a good offense can make room for both.

 

Btw, LTs don't run routes and catch passes, which is why we don't judge them using receiving stats. Same reason we don't judge RBs based on kicking percentage. TEs who run routes get judged, at least partly, on receiving stats. That doesn't mean we can't identify and acknowledge TEs who add value in other ways. 

 

And just like we recognize the difference between traditional TEs vs hybrid TEs, we clearly recognize the difference between TEs, slot receivers, and outside receivers. It's why we judge Golden Tate differently from the way we judge Desean Jackson. And again, a good offense can make room for a variety of skill players across all the skill positions.

 

But still, regardless what position you play, TDs are more valuable than first downs, almost always. And that judgment is specific to skill players, since they are the players either gaining first downs or scoring TDs. This judgment obviously doesn't apply to offensive linemen.

 

Edit: And we don't need to compare any of our TEs over the last 7 years to Jason Witten, who is a future HOFer and easily a top ten TE in the modern NFL. Doyle is more in the Witten mold, but he doesn't do anything as well as Witten did in his prime.

I'm not intending to argue with you.  Somebody said something about TE stats and how high Ebron ranked.  I suppose its because the NFL buckets them that way, and has yet to officially call the positions that Ebron, Kelce, Fleener, Graham, Clark play a different name than the position Doyle, Allen, and Dilger play.

 

To me, the stat comparison is more suited towards Clark vs Collie/Stokley (we haven't had a decent slot receiver since them, so I have to go back that far to make apples to apples in terms of talent).

 

Maybe I'm being obtuse about this in a way I can't see. 

 

But nevertheless, Ebron is playing well and having a goo year.

[jvan1973]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm not intending to argue with you.  Somebody said something about TE stats and how high Ebron ranked.  I suppose its because the NFL buckets them that way, and has yet to officially call the positions that Ebron, Kelce, Fleener, Graham, Clark play a different name than the position Doyle, Allen, and Dilger play.

 

To me, the stat comparison is more suited towards Clark vs Collie/Stokley (we haven't had a decent slot receiver since them, so I have to go back that far to make apples to apples in terms of talent).

 

Maybe I'm being obtuse about this in a way I can't see. 

 

But nevertheless, Ebron is playing well and having a goo year.

How many slot receivers are 6'4 250?

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

But nevertheless, Ebron is playing well and having a goo year.

 

That's kind of the point. His stats measure his production, which is pretty good at this point. 

 

His overall value and his fit in a good offense, that's a deeper and more nuanced conversation.

[Alex22]

5 hours ago, Calmack said:

Yeah he isnt gonna suddenly turn into a stud because Ebron is drawing coverage. 

 

He blocks well though 

[DalTXColtsFan]

Not to derail my own thread, but IMHO Doyle has earned the right to call himself a stud.  When you haul in 5+ balls a game for 8+ yards a clip when every DC in the league knows you're the backup QB's security blanket over an entire season, that's an accomplishment.  His 7-catch day against the Bengals proved he's not ready to slow down either.

 

Would love to see him over the rest of the season with Kelly, Nelson, Smith, Castanzo, Ebron, Hilton, Luck and Mack.  You could do a lot worse at constructing a core of your offense.

[MikeCurtis]

6 hours ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

Eric has 6 TDs.  No other TE in the NFL has more than 3.  He's also #4 in catches and #8 in yards per game among TEs.  Not too shabby.

 

Gonna be awfully tough to make the ProBowl in the same conference as Kelce, Gronk and Jared Cook but tough to argue he isn't producing.

 

Gronk holds the record for TDs by a TE in a season with 17.  Eric is on pace to match that.

Great Point DalTX......  Lets find a sport bar in between us, and watch another game

[DougDew]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

That's kind of the point. His stats measure his production, which is pretty good at this point. 

 

His overall value and his fit in a good offense, that's a deeper and more nuanced conversation.

I agree.  I was reacting to the notion that Ebron was being applauded for his TD and chunk yardage stats, while some were then bringing up Doyle.

 

I was hoping to simply point out that I think Ebron's stats should hopefully be grouped with other players asked to get chunk yards and TDs (all are to a degree), and that isn't really Doyle, or Ryan Grant for that matter.

[WoolMagnet]

9 hours ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

I hope Jack Doyle is not looking at Ebron as competition, rather as a coverage absorber.  I'm licking my chops thinking about 2 TE sets with both of them on the field.

Dilger / Pollard   2.0.

with Ebron and Swoope making plays, i'm starting to like the possibilities of a 3 TE set with Doyle, Ebron, and Swoope.

i'm also starting to see the value in Hines.

[AZColt11]

He's been better than I expected.  I was a little leery of the signing due to his flameout in Detroit.  I had thought if he got 5 or 6 TD's in the entire season it would be pretty good.  Looks like he may be a bit north of that number.

[Smoke317]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

 

Edit: And we don't need to compare any of our TEs over the last 7 years to Jason Witten, who is a future HOFer and easily a top ten TE in the modern NFL. Doyle is more in the Witten mold, but he doesn't do anything as well as Witten did in his prime.

Thanks Supe for the common sense. Nobody with good sense can compare Doyle or any of our tight ends (even the great Dallas Clark) to Jason Witten.  He’s a sure fire hall of famer.  Doyle’s numbers last year were good and probably measure up to “older” Witten’s numbers but be careful counting individual’s numbers on losing teams...  

 

Because as great as a breakout year that Doyle had last year, it sure didn’t translate into many wins for us...  But I must be honest, I sure miss him now because he would more often than not catch the little dink & dunk passes thrown his way.  Which sadly, is more than we can say for most of our receiving core...

[WarGhost21]

10 hours ago, MPStack said:

Jack Doyle is way overhyped on this board!

I somewhat agree, he’s overhyped because everyone expects him to be a super stud. I’m just happy that we have a TE that will do his job blocking and can hold on to a football. He and Ebron are perfect matches, one potential chain-mover and one potential game-breaker. 

[Jdubu]

20 hours ago, MPStack said:

I think he gets a lot of local boy love. Yes, he’s a good blocker, but if you look at his career stats, Ebron has already eclipsed everything Doyle has done, except for receptions in a season.

What Doyle has been lauded for most on here is as a chains mover. He just catches most everything and was also a favorite target of Luck inside the redzone. Ebron has taken the redzone catch over and I’m fine with that but Doyle and Ebron are not bad options to have on the field for our offense. If nothing else, I think it opens up better options for the run game as well. 

[CanuckColtsFan]

I am pretty impressed but I thought he would come here and produce. I am a little worried that by the time this team start winning his contract will be up and he'll be an expensive re-sign.

[MPStack]

24 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

I am pretty impressed but I thought he would come here and produce. I am a little worried that by the time this team start winning his contract will be up and he'll be an expensive re-sign.

Yep, if he keeps this up, he’ll be more expensive than Doyle 5.6m a year! 

[CanuckColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Yep, if he keeps this up, he’ll be more expensive than Doyle 5.6m a year! 

If he gets say a 10 plus TD season in each of his years here. It will cost more than what we paid Allen by a long shot.

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

If he gets say a 10 plus TD season in each of his years here. It will cost more than what we paid Allen by a long shot.

He’s making Doyle’s contract look not the best!

[CanuckColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, MPStack said:

He’s making Doyle’s contract look not the best!

Doyel is injured. He has proven a valuable asset. I think he'll come back and play great.

[MPStack]

3 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

Doyel is injured. He has proven a valuable asset. I think he'll come back and play great.

I don’t think Doyle is worth 5.6m a year. However, that’s what happens when Tier 2-3 players go to the Pro Bowl, because the Real Pro Bowl players no longer go!

[CanuckColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, MPStack said:

I don’t think Doyle is worth 5.6m a year. However, that’s what happens when Tier 2-3 players go to the Pro Bowl, because the Real Pro Bowl players no longer go!

According to over the cap Jack Doyel is the 15th highest paid TE. I think that's pretty fair.

[Lawrence Owen]

On 10/16/2018 at 11:35 AM, MPStack said:

I don’t think Doyle is worth 5.6m a year. However, that’s what happens when Tier 2-3 players go to the Pro Bowl, because the Real Pro Bowl players no longer go!

I'mma disagree.

The man can block well in running and passing, and he's a sure handed target for a QB. That's worth it easily.  Think on it this way...EVERY play he is on the field he matters.  On a run play, he's blocking.  On a pass play he is either blocking or running a route...or both. All these things he does at an above average rate. (not great, but well) Anyone who can do everything well, should get paid, even if he's not a super stud at one thing.

 

Also...REAL pro-bowl TE's (as you call them) don't make 6.3 mil/year...they make quite a bit more.

Player                      Team          Avg./Year

Jimmy Graham     Packers     $10,000,000

Travis Kelce           Chiefs         $9,368,400

Jordan Reed           Redskins  $9,350,000

Rob Gronkowski   Patriots     $9,000,000

 

Also right now...Ebron makes more than Jack,...and in my opinion..has not earned it yet.  He's off to a good start as a pass catching TE...but it is just a start.

 

Cameron Brate            Bucs              $6,800,000

Vance McDonald         Steelers       $6,500,000

Eric Ebron                    Colts           6,500,000

Jack Doyle                     Colts          $6,300,000

 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

On 10/15/2018 at 11:07 AM, MPStack said:

I think he gets a lot of local boy love. Yes, he’s a good blocker, but if you look at his career stats, Ebron has already eclipsed everything Doyle has done, except for receptions in a season.

 

Well I’d certainly hope so. Ebron was a top 10 pick, Doyle was undrafted.