All Andrew Luck Discussions (merge) The Dark Mystery of Andrew Luck

[BR-549]

1 hour ago, GusFring said:

He said he used a good doctor,  but that he's a hip specialist. James Andrews he is not

Why I mentioned the potato farmer..  I would say Luck will be looking at another surgery in a month or so.

[GusFring]

24 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Hopefully he is able to throw without pain when he tests his shoulder out in January or so.  Then maybe he and the team can move forward and continue the rebuild around him.  Even in that scenario though, I still have an uneasiness that something could reoccur later down the road that requires the surgery anyway.

 

In my opinion, if he has to go under the knife again for the bicep surgery then I fear his days in Indy might be numbered.  That would be too much fiddling around with the man's shoulder/arm and potentially two seasons wasted. It's hard to imagine that scenario resulting in a happy ending for Colts fans.

Brees had both. The issue I have with Luck is he should have done this surgery months ago. It appears he's at a high risk to re-tear his labrum by not getting it. 

 

Has James Andrews retired from performing surgeries?

[IinD]

From the outside looking in it seems they may have wanted to MAYBE try just the rotator surgery because that was the obvious injury. See if it's ok, if not we'll do it in 2 surgeries type thinking.

 

Kind of like fixing something that has 2 main parts. Fox the big obvious thing and if it doesn't work, you know the other thing is broken as well. Total guess by me, but that's kind of what it seems like.

 

Or for all we know he may have been told it might be two and he's the one who opted to only fix the cuff and see if it worked.

 

I never knew the shoulder was this tough of a thing to fix, diagnose and all this other stuff we've learned over his injury period.

[Coltsman1788]

13 minutes ago, GusFring said:

Brees had both. The issue I have with Luck is he should have done this surgery months ago. It appears he's at a high risk to re-tear his labrum by not getting it. 

 

Has James Andrews retired from performing surgeries?

Yes the potential timing between the two procedures is troubling.  You would think that someone performing shoulder surgeries at that level would know that the other surgery should be performed at the same time.  Unless they didn't realize the extent of Luck's problem at the time.  Which begs the question...why did the Colts allow Luck to go to a hip specialist for shoulder surgery?  lol 

[GusFring]

4 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Yes the potential timing between the two procedures is troubling.  You would think that someone performing shoulder surgeries at that level would know that the other surgery should be performed at the same time.  Unless they didn't realize the extent of Luck's problem at the time.  Which begs the question...why did the Colts allow Luck to go to a hip specialist for shoulder surgery?  lol 

If nothing else, Lucks yr end presser should be interesting. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

7 hours ago, GusFring said:

So it appears the blaming of Luck has begun. 

 

And as I posted prior, the Doc said he ahould have got the biceps surgey immediately. Not doing so could cause another labrum tear.

 

I said not long after the Colts shut Luck down he should have had an arthroscope performed (Even by Dr. Safran if Luck so wishes).  If there was Biceps damage, and /or Labrum issues, then  he needs to get it corrected - the sooner the better.  if no biceps or labrum issues, then it will get better with rest over time.  So, we still do not know.  Now we wait and see if he can complete a throwing program without pain.  At least he is supposed to throw soon...

 

6 hours ago, BR-549 said:

I like Mort.  DD not so much.  Get tired of his combative attitude.

 

I hope Mort is able to overcome his illness.... he sure has a good attitude about it, but didn't seem to want to discuss much about it.

 

Some of the things he was saying about the procedure make sense.  And he seems relatively knowledgeable about it.

 

Why would you hire a potato farmer to grow grapes for your winery?    Just saying.   

 

Perhaps having a surgeon more known for his work in hip repair wasn't the best choice to handle rebuilding the throwing shoulder of a NFL QB.  

 

I am really confused why they wouldn't have done the tendon procedure during the surgery if it is "common practice".  Too much unknown and I think it IS fair to point fingers at AL.  At least until he visits the podium and gives us some info...

 

6 hours ago, GusFring said:

He said he used a good doctor,  but that he's a hip specialist. James Andrews he is not

 

Marc Safran M.D. is a qualified ortho surgeon.  Period.  Luck knew him from Stanford and likely already had a doctor/patient relationship which Luck has kept. Here are Dr. Safran's specialties-

 

• Hip arthroscopy
• Sports medicine and arthroscopy
• Elbow arthroscopy and ligament surgery
• Knee ligament reconstruction
• Shoulder stability surgery

 

And below his professional affiliations-

 

American Board of Orthopaedic Surgery

American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons

American Orthopaedic Society for Sports Medicine

American Shoulder and Elbow Surgeons

International Society of Knee Surgery, Arthroscopy and Orthopaedic Sports Medicine

 

*******************************

Fellowship

• Sports Medicine and Shoulder Surgery Fellowship, University of Pittsburgh  
•  
• ******************************

 

All referenced here- http://ortho.stanford.edu/sports-medicine/marc-safran-profile.html

 

People need to get off this he's only just a good hip doctor / potato farmer for winery mentality.  In addition, if Luck does need biceps or other correction, he will be on a 6 month timeline again, even though biology class will tell you it takes 6 weeks for a tendon to heal. 

I'd like also point out that Luck has suffered (unfortunately) quite a few maladies.  In none of the cases has he healed "faster" than the standard typical mean time frame, usually taking longer than typical.  Just reporting the past as it may also reflect the future.  no matter what, we still have no clear indication of his future... yet.

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

Only on this website --- where having an opinion is much more important than having facts --- could so many people feel they know what's better for Luck than Andrew or his world class doctors.

 

Only here on this website...    

 

And it's been that way since January when Luck first had his surgery....  

 

Fans here know better....

 

Goodness gracious....      

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Only on this website --- where having an opinion is much more important than having facts --- could so many people feel they know what's better for Luck than Andrew or his world class doctors.

 

Only here on this website...    

 

And it's been that way since January when Luck first had his surgery....  

 

Fans here know better....

 

Goodness gracious....      

 

Yeah and many people in here say he is done and will retire. Glad they have a medical license and a fortune tellers license. I am jealous 

[csmopar]

5 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah and many people in here say he is done and will retire. Glad they have a medical license and a fortune tellers license. I am jealous 

i wonder if they can also foresee the winning lottery numbers and will give those out. 

[csmopar]

5 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah and many people in here say he is done and will retire. Glad they have a medical license and a fortune tellers license. I am jealous 

i wonder if they can also foresee the winning lottery numbers and will give those out. 

[Fisticuffs111]

13 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

In addition, if Luck does need biceps or other correction, he will be on a 6 month timeline again, even though biology class will tell you it takes 6 weeks for a tendon to heal. 

I'd like also point out that Luck has suffered (unfortunately) quite a few maladies.  In none of the cases has he healed "faster" than the standard typical mean time frame, usually taking longer than typical.  Just reporting the past as it may also reflect the future.  no matter what, we still have no clear indication of his future... yet.

 

 

 

I liked the rest of your post but this part is also key too.

If Luck does get additional surgery I imagine a few people will once again be hoping (and expecting) that Luck will heal by the lower end of the recovery time. But like you said, if the past is anything to go by, it's probably better for one's sanity to assume that it very well could take him 6 months (possibly a bit more).

[Steamboat_Shaun]

17 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Yes the potential timing between the two procedures is troubling.  You would think that someone performing shoulder surgeries at that level would know that the other surgery should be performed at the same time.  Unless they didn't realize the extent of Luck's problem at the time.  Which begs the question...why did the Colts allow Luck to go to a hip specialist for shoulder surgery?  lol 

 

They didn't "allow him" to do anything. Who ultimately does his surgery is his choice, and his choice alone. Luck and his family chose the doctor that they already had a relationship and general comfort level with, so all the organization can do at that point is support his decision, and hope for the best.

[The Fish]

21 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

They didn't "allow him" to do anything. Who ultimately does his surgery is his choice, and his choice alone. Luck and his family chose the doctor that they already had a relationship and general comfort level with, so all the organization can do at that point is support his decision, and hope for the best.

I suppose you're right, but it never occurred to me that these guys go outside of the bubble of medical staff associated with the team for surgery. Or rather that it was totally 100% his call.

I'm not saying Luck or anyone would do this, but if he really really wanted to have surgery done by Dr. Nick Rivera (The Simpsons quack), the team would have no say to stop that? Seems like something that would be buried in the contract.

[Finball]

24 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I suppose you're right, but it never occurred to me that these guys go outside of the bubble of medical staff associated with the team for surgery. Or rather that it was totally 100% his call.

I'm not saying Luck or anyone would do this, but if he really really wanted to have surgery done by Dr. Nick Rivera (The Simpsons quack), the team would have no say to stop that? Seems like something that would be buried in the contract.

 

I think it's pretty usual that players have surgeries with medical staff not associated with the team. As team docs aren't usually specialists in one area and surgeons usually are, at least the best ones.

 

What is weird that Luck didn't go for the best shoulder specialists in the business and didn't even have the surgery done by a shoulder specialist if I've understood correctly.. Comfort? I'd only be comfortable if my throwing shoulder in Luck's situation was operated by the best doc the country has to offer.

[Coltsfan0112]

Chris Mortenson is on Dan Dakich and gives more detail with Luck. Mort happens to mention that if he has surgery a 2nd time for the bicep it is normal but should of happened on the the surgery of the Labrum. Must listen!!!!! 

 

http://www.1070thefan.com/blogs/dan-dakich-show/people-medical-community-have-more-concern-how-andrew-luck-handled-chris?utm_content=bufferab751&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[chad72]

1 hour ago, The Fish said:

I suppose you're right, but it never occurred to me that these guys go outside of the bubble of medical staff associated with the team for surgery. Or rather that it was totally 100% his call.

I'm not saying Luck or anyone would do this, but if he really really wanted to have surgery done by Dr. Nick Rivera (The Simpsons quack), the team would have no say to stop that? Seems like something that would be buried in the contract.

 

It is not uncommon for a player to get it done with a doctor they have a comfort level with. Tom Brady did so, going away from Boston, after his 2008 season ending injury in game 1.

 

Read the articles below, some key lines:

 

Instead of staying in Boston to have his surgery, Brady chose to have the reconstruction performed by ElAttrache, an expert and also his friend and occasional golf partner. That decision was scrutinized and criticized, particularly by the media in New England, after details trickled out of a post-operative staph infection that required two follow-up procedures on the knee.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/02/sports/sp-tom-brady2

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/09/sports/sp-tom-brady9

 

[Coltsfan0112]

Ya, that is true. It sounds positive though from the Podcast. It bugs me how it's a normal thing after a Labrum tear but it should have been done on the first surgery.  I know people think 2nd surgery and it's bad which ya, you definitely don't want to go in there twice. Well Mort basically says it's not career or season ending and it should of happened on the first surgery. He does mention again that Luck says he feels really great but we will see when he starts throwing

[The Fish]

Dakich "You mean to tell me rumors I read on the back of cereal boxes aren't correct?"

[The Fish]

Mort declaring Bree's surgery as being far more extreme was interesting. I've seen the comparison made- it's not right.

[BR-549]

2 hours ago, The Fish said:

Mort declaring Bree's surgery as being far more extreme was interesting. I've seen the comparison made- it's not right.

Didn't he have a torn rotator cuff along with the labrum?  I was always under the impression his situation was pretty serious and that he likely wouldn't play again... saying that however, I never did any research or confirmation of any of those rumors.  But I remember him being traded and I sorta remember people saying it was bad for NO because of the uncertainty of his future.

 

Disclaimer: 

I might add that during a few of those few years I didn't follow the NFL much and spent a lot of time working.  In the evenings I would sit with my crew for several hours drinking beer, so there are a few hazy memories of the situation, lol.  (Please sympathize  )

[The Fish]

13 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

Didn't he have a torn rotator cuff along with the labrum?  I was always under the impression his situation was pretty serious and that he likely wouldn't play again... saying that however, I never did any research or confirmation of any of those rumors.  But I remember him being traded and I sorta remember people saying it was bad for NO because of the uncertainty of his future.

 

Disclaimer: 

I might add that during a few of those few years I didn't follow the NFL much and spent a lot of time working.  In the evenings I would sit with my crew for several hours drinking beer, so there are a few hazy memories of the situation, lol.  (Please sympathize  )

Brees (no ' - slaps self) shoulder was basically destroyed.

https://www.si.com/si-wire/2014/06/13/james-andrews-drew-brees-remarkable-comeback

[BR-549]

6 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Brees (no ' - slaps self) shoulder was basically destroyed.

https://www.si.com/si-wire/2014/06/13/james-andrews-drew-brees-remarkable-comeback

yeah, so it wasn't a good situation huh?.   Being a Purdue alum I have always enjoyed watching him.. with the exception of 09' SB.  But, I am glad he got one.... he earned it.

 

Thanks! 

 

I like Mort and I think he is a reliable correspondent.  I also think he is well connected and that if he says something he truly believes it.  He seemed a little, just a tiny bit, stand-off-isa with DD.  Which I don't mind at all.

[Coltsfan0112]

On the chopping wood podcast. Zack keffer and Stephen Holder reported that people in the building believe that the rehab in Europe was a "Turning Point" and have high optimism that Luck will not need surgery even though it's a wait and see. Also mentioned was that Luck should have been back already but has extended his time there a little bit longer and believe it's due to how the recovery has came along so well he wants a little more time there.

[ColtsBlueFL]

6 hours ago, The Fish said:

I suppose you're right, but it never occurred to me that these guys go outside of the bubble of medical staff associated with the team for surgery. Or rather that it was totally 100% his call.

I'm not saying Luck or anyone would do this, but if he really really wanted to have surgery done by Dr. Nick Rivera (The Simpsons quack), the team would have no say to stop that? Seems like something that would be buried in the contract.

 

 

They can, and do.  And others do not, as they trust their own team surgeon(s) to perform the surgeries. IE: Dr. David Chao performed many, but not all, surgeries on Sand Diego Chargers players in his 17 years career there. 

 

I think many people would be wiser and more enlightened if they read this piece about being a team physician -

 

https://www.drdavidgeier.com/being-nfl-team-doctor-not-all-fun-and-games/

 

It's not a sexy topic, but with all of the injuries in the NFL, knowing more gives one a clearer picture than hoping a head coach will tell the truth and the whole truth.  (  LOL )

 

Sport medicine was pioneered by creative surgeons, generally operating on elite baseball pitchers.  (The late) Dr. Frank Jobe (Dodgers team physician) pioneered sports medicine in 1974 when he performed an ulnar collateral ligament procedure on Tommy John, (yes, the thus named Tommy John surgery) and saving a pitching career.  James Andrews performed labrum surgery on a young Tom Seaver in 1985, who then played 8 months later and then went to the HOF .  And Baseball teams to this day are stocked with star orthopedic surgeons as Team Physician members (often elbow and shoulder specialists).  As are many NFL teams. (James Andrews is affiliated with the Washington Redskins, as well as the Alabama Crimson tide, Auburn University Tigers, and the Tampa Bay Rays... all of them). Sports medicine is not quack medicine and there are many star studded surgeons out there, and college teams need/have them too. 

 

http://nflps.org/team-physicians/

[The Fish]

Thanks for the info..

FYI I wasn't implying that "sports medicine" is a quack thing, in the least. I'm not sure what prompted all of that. 

The context of me bringing up Dr. Nick wasn't to say that Luck engaged in anything stupid, it was just a question, using an extreme analogy (a joke) to see if some of this "say so" is contractual or not.

[ColtsBlueFL]

10 hours ago, The Fish said:

Thanks for the info..

FYI I wasn't implying that "sports medicine" is a quack thing, in the least. I'm not sure what prompted all of that. 

The context of me bringing up Dr. Nick wasn't to say that Luck engaged in anything stupid, it was just a question, using an extreme analogy (a joke) to see if some of this "say so" is contractual or not.

Ok, I see. I feel the players agent would never allow a team to control any players medically, especially if the player wanted other options The agent and player want the ability to choose who, where, and when they get medically indicated procedures performed. That could be a team affiliated physician or another outside of the organization. Or even outside the U.S.

 

Teams influence is not the same these days. Even Independent doctors are on the sidelines to keep teams from placing brain injured ( concussed ) players back out on the field, amongst other things.

 

[GusFring]

https://m.soundcloud.com/indystarsportsday/chopping-wood-luck-returning-to-colts-pagano-talk

 

They seem to blame Andrew 

[OLD FAN MAN]

let us hope they glued luck back together in europe

[NannyMcafee]

Says here that "a source" says rehab in Europe is going well, and Andrew will resume throwing when he returns to the states. Staff hopeful soreness won't come back. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.indystar.com/amp/965336001

[TheRustonRifle#7]

On 12/18/2017 at 7:33 PM, BR-549 said:

Why I mentioned the potato farmer..  I would say Luck will be looking at another surgery in a month or so.

Hey you spelt tater right...you must be good at sipherin!

[BR-549]

1 hour ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

Hey you spelt tater right...you must be good at sipherin!

Well, it would take a hillbilly genealogist to figure me out for sure, but I reckon I can get through some things without much struggle... : )

[TheRustonRifle#7]

49 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

Well, it would take a hillbilly genealogist to figure me out for sure, but I reckon I can get through some things without much struggle... : )

Call me tomorrow please....

[BR-549]

4 minutes ago, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

Call me tomorrow please....

You bet

[Narcosys]

This whole fiasco has become a compete circus show, as it seems the colts don't know what their doing and let Luck continue to play for no reason.

[King Colt]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 11:23 PM, NewColtsFan said:

Only on this website --- where having an opinion is much more important than having facts --- could so many people feel they know what's better for Luck than Andrew or his world class doctors.

 

Only here on this website...    

 

And it's been that way since January when Luck first had his surgery....  

 

Fans here know better....

 

Goodness gracious....      

 

Facts?! If facts were required this forum and all others like it would shut down. This is the era of social media not factual media.

[King Colt]

On ‎12‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 3:58 PM, OLD FAN MAN said:

let us hope they glued luck back together in Europe

It never worked for Humpty Dumpty so my expectations are low.

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 12/19/2017 at 2:47 PM, chad72 said:

 

It is not uncommon for a player to get it done with a doctor they have a comfort level with. Tom Brady did so, going away from Boston, after his 2008 season ending injury in game 1.

 

Read the articles below, some key lines:

 

Instead of staying in Boston to have his surgery, Brady chose to have the reconstruction performed by ElAttrache, an expert and also his friend and occasional golf partner. That decision was scrutinized and criticized, particularly by the media in New England, after details trickled out of a post-operative staph infection that required two follow-up procedures on the knee.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/02/sports/sp-tom-brady2

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/09/sports/sp-tom-brady9

 

 

I find it quite amusing anyone would even consider criticizing the use of Dr. Neal ElAttrache for relevant ortho surgery.  He's from the Kerlan-Jobe Institute, head team physician for the L.A. Dodgers and L.A. Rams, ortho consultant for L.A. Kings, Lakers, and Anaheim Ducks, and considered a 'Super Doctor', yes, along the likes of James Andrews type, etc...

 

Sigh...

 

 

[Restored]

Look, everyone can point different fingers here but its important to look at where we are at now. Andrew will be back here in the states (if he isn't already). He will either throw with little to no issues and be ready to roll or require an additional surgery. That's where we are at right now.

[The Fish]

Well, Dr. Frank Gore says Luck will be good, in colorful terms. Go find Keefers' tweet. It's blue..

[GoColts8818]

Pagano said he should be back this week.  I doubt it but maybe we get an update this week or after the season.