When will Luck be taken off PUP?

[Restored]

7 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Not to mention the team isn't going to say our QB is less than 100%.  That's telling other teams to go after him.

 

Some fans need to get over the idea NFL teams are going to be honest about injuries.  They aren't.  They are going do whatever they think will help them win a game and if they think they can get the smallest of advantages from lying about an injury they are going to do it and not blink an eye.  There is no conspiracy theory in this.  They aren't trying to get one over on the fans, in reality they don't care about the fans when it comes to injuries, they are trying to bluff another team.  

 

Sorry I know you didn't say anything like that I was just responding to your point with my first sentence and then the over thought of the thread.

 

I agree 100%. Fans would love to have a full update on whenever Luck is going to come back but the reality is, even if the team actually knows, they're not going to tell the public.

[Barry Sears]

Looks like he's not going on PUP, according this...

 

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2017/08/colts-qb-andrew-luck-wont-go-on-reservepup

[ricker182]

1 hour ago, Jay Kirk said:

Makes perfect sense , that's why they went out to get a proven QB to take his place lol

There's a proven QB that's available? 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, SilentHill said:

Why is his ability to play through what was a major injury context? He was not fine, just because he toughed it out doesn't change that.

 

Because he was 'fine', non invasive rehab made him well.  Yet it didn't truly 'fix ' the underlying issue fully.  And here and there, while playing, he would suffer a situation that was injurious to the shoulder and reversed all of the advancements he made.  then rehab would begin the process back to being fine again, and then another situation (hit, awkward fall, what have you) what not only erase all the good rehab did, but made him worse than before.

 

At the end of the year, Luck was tired of the two steps forward, 2 or 3 steps back yo yo he endured.  The surgery, would make it much more difficult to incur injury and pain he had to go through at differing times last season.  He spent too much time in the 'tub' getting well instead of practice at times.  But nobody can blame anyone for trying proven methods to address the issue before undergoing such a major reconstruction of a shoulder joint; the weeks of pain after it, the months of rehabbing it back to normal. 

 

It's a 6-9 month rehab process, and studies show it takes 11.7 months average for athletes to feel 'normal' again.  You will  not get anything more definitive than this from anyone.  The actual treating Doctor and Physical Therapist(s) are legally obligates not to tell, either. and if they tell Irsay, Ballard, and Pagano, etc.. they are legally obligated not to be specific either. The NFL doesn't require anything concerning injuries in the preseason, and just part and practice status during the season. Luck CAN say, and he chooses not to.  Just little snippets here and there...  mostly telling folks to chill in his own little way.

[Superman]

3 hours ago, SilentHill said:

Why is his ability to play through what was a major injury context? He was not fine, just because he toughed it out doesn't change that.

 

It wasn't a major injury, that's why he was able to play through it. He decided more than a year later to have it surgically repaired because it was still bothering him. Now it's eight months later, and you're acting like the sky is falling. 

[SilentHill]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It wasn't a major injury, that's why he was able to play through it. He decided more than a year later to have it surgically repaired because it was still bothering him. Now it's eight months later, and you're acting like the sky is falling. 

 

I am not acting like the sky is falling, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. I'm also not sure why you keep deviating from our original conversation, which has always been about better disclosure on player injuries.

[BR-549]

[Superman]

4 hours ago, SilentHill said:

 

I am not acting like the sky is falling, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. I'm also not sure why you keep deviating from our original conversation, which has always been about better disclosure on player injuries.

 

Conversations evolve. Especially when you start pretending that the Colts lied about Luck because they didn't say 'he's going to need shoulder surgery in a few months,' as if they knew that would be the case. They kept him on the injury report every week through the season. That Luck's surgery wasn't 100% should not have been a surprise to anyone. Pagano saying Luck was 'fine' was obviously a relative statement, and that's borne out by the fact that Luck didn't miss any games because of his shoulder, despite being limited in practice because of it.

 

When you say you want transparency, you evidently mean you want the MRIs and the surgeon's reports and the rehab logs, and every piece of information regarding Luck's injury, recovery and prognosis, and on top of that, any time you don't get that, or the plan is adjusted, you feel justified in calling the previous information a lie. This is ridiculous.

 

First, as CBFL continues to say, the law specifies what information other people are entitled to, so we will never get full disclosure on player injuries. 

 

Second, no matter how much disclosure we get, it will not change how long it takes for a player to get back on the field. If you want to go to a Colts game but want to be more confident that Luck will play, you should choose a different game than the home opener. That was telegraphed by Irsay a couple weeks ago, and again today. Luck probably isn't back before Week 3, as it stands right now.

 

Third, there's zero incentive for the team or the league or the players to release more information about player recovery than they already do. Since we're going back to the original conversation, I'll say again what I said to begin with: Don't hold your breath. It's not important to them, certainly not important enough to make it an issue in the next CBA.

[SilentHill]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Conversations evolve. Especially when you start pretending that the Colts lied about Luck because they didn't say 'he's going to need shoulder surgery in a few months,' as if they knew that would be the case. They kept him on the injury report every week through the season. That Luck's surgery wasn't 100% should not have been a surprise to anyone. Pagano saying Luck was 'fine' was obviously a relative statement, and that's borne out by the fact that Luck didn't miss any games because of his shoulder, despite being limited in practice because of it.

 

When you say you want transparency, you evidently mean you want the MRIs and the surgeon's reports and the rehab logs, and every piece of information regarding Luck's injury, recovery and prognosis, and on top of that, any time you don't get that, or the plan is adjusted, you feel justified in calling the previous information a lie. This is ridiculous.

 

First, as CBFL continues to say, the law specifies what information other people are entitled to, so we will never get full disclosure on player injuries. 

 

Second, no matter how much disclosure we get, it will not change how long it takes for a player to get back on the field. If you want to go to a Colts game but want to be more confident that Luck will play, you should choose a different game than the home opener. That was telegraphed by Irsay a couple weeks ago, and again today. Luck probably isn't back before Week 3, as it stands right now.

 

Third, there's zero incentive for the team or the league or the players to release more information about player recovery than they already do. Since we're going back to the original conversation, I'll say again what I said to begin with: Don't hold your breath. It's not important to them, certainly not important enough to make it an issue in the next CBA.

 

"Irsay: No serious issues with Luck's shoulder"

 

How is that not a lie? How is a partially torn Labrum not a serious issue? I get it, they wanted to try rehab to see if it would heal by itself, but that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't "fine" and the issue was serious.

 

It's fine if I don't fly in for the game, I've already cancelled the trip, that's not the issue here.

 

I can't disagree with you more on you're third point, so I'll agree to disagree.

 

 

[a06cc]

From what I’m hearing either today or this weekend Luck will be off PUP. I have a feeling he won’t play until week 3 though. 

[stitches]

I don't know if this means anything but... oh well... for whatever it's worth:

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, a06cc said:

From what I’m hearing either today or this weekend Luck will be off PUP. I have a feeling he won’t play until week 3 though. 

 

I've always been of the position Luck will be out there playing 2 or (more likely) 3 weeks after he is released off the PUP.  Dr. Chao feels it will take a month.

 

And, we are just under 52 hours away from the team having to activate Andrew, or move him to the Reserve/PUP.  Currently, I think all signs still point to him being placed on the active 53 man roster Before 4:00 pm Saturday.  and if he is not Limited in any practice, I feel he may be ready by the Browns game.  If he is Limited in practice any initially, tack on some more time.

 

Not only does his upcoming PUP or Active status tell us a lot, his practice participation (if active) status will as well.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, SilentHill said:

 

"Irsay: No serious issues with Luck's shoulder"

 

How is that not a lie? How is a partially torn Labrum not a serious issue? I get it, they wanted to try rehab to see if it would heal by itself, but that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't "fine" and the issue was serious.

 

It's fine if I don't fly in for the game, I've already cancelled the trip, that's not the issue here.

 

I can't disagree with you more on you're third point, so I'll agree to disagree.

 

Why is it so hard to understand that things change? Luck played NFL football for four months, at a pretty high level, and over that period of time, his shoulder situation changed. 

 

Irsay said in December that no surgery was planned for Luck's shoulder. Then he had surgery in January. Did he lie, or did things change? 

 

All season long they acknowledged that Luck's shoulder wasn't 100%, by keeping him on the injury report and limiting him in practice. They didn't hide it.

[Dingus McGirt]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Why is it so hard to understand that things change? Luck played NFL football for four months, at a pretty high level, and over that period of time, his shoulder situation changed. 

 

Irsay said in December that no surgery was planned for Luck's shoulder. Then he had surgery in January. Did he lie, or did things change? 

 

All season long they acknowledged that Luck's shoulder wasn't 100%, by keeping him on the injury report and limiting him in practice. They didn't hide it.

Key term to all ... "planned."

 

[Superman]

15 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Key term to all ... "planned."

 

 

Seems simple enough to me, but according to some people, when Chris Ballard said they expected to active Luck from PUP prior to the regular season, he 'gave his word' that Luck would be activated. 

[csmopar]

Dakich saying AL out for season per his sources, take it with a grain of salt.

[PeterBowman]

8 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Dakich saying AL out for season per his sources, take it with a grain of salt.

more like a truck load of salt

[Boiler_Colt]

12 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Dakich saying AL out for season per his sources, take it with a grain of salt.

 

Yeah, he's been saying that for a few days. He's said he's heard that but doesn't think its true. Unless he just recently said something definitive. JMV has proved to have really good inside info and he still has been told that he should be close to full go after the first two weeks of the season.

[DaColts85]

42 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Dakich saying AL out for season per his sources, take it with a grain of salt.

This should further show how useless Dakich is as a media member for Indy.  College basketball is the only thing he has any use for...and that is still up for debate.

[SilentHill]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Why is it so hard to understand that things change? Luck played NFL football for four months, at a pretty high level, and over that period of time, his shoulder situation changed. 

 

Irsay said in December that no surgery was planned for Luck's shoulder. Then he had surgery in January. Did he lie, or did things change? 

 

All season long they acknowledged that Luck's shoulder wasn't 100%, by keeping him on the injury report and limiting him in practice. They didn't hide it.

 

So, are you trying to tell me that he started with a minor injury like a bruised shoulder and then over the season it came a partially torn labrum? If so that is some damn good insider information. As the injury was reported as the labrum i have no choice but to assume it was torn the entire time.

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

 

So, are you trying to tell me that he started with a minor injury like a bruised shoulder and then over the season it came a partially torn labrum? If so that is some damn good insider information. As the injury was reported as the labrum i have no choice but to assume it was torn the entire time.

 

Did I say anything like that? 

 

It's possible for a labrum to be partially torn, then become more severe over the course of four months. Especially for a professional football player. 

[SilentHill]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Did I say anything like that? 

 

It's possible for a labrum to be partially torn, then become more severe over the course of four months. Especially for a professional football player. 

 

I can agree with the fact it can become worse, but I'd say a torn labrum is pretty serious from the get go.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, SilentHill said:

 

So, are you trying to tell me that he started with a minor injury like a bruised shoulder and then over the season it came a partially torn labrum? If so that is some damn good insider information. As the injury was reported as the labrum i have no choice but to assume it was torn the entire time.

 

C'mon man!!??!

 

 

 

So you don't remember anything about Lucks injuries or timeline... I guess.  Let me refresh your memory-

 

Luck injured his shoulder vs. the Titan games 3 of 2015 (I remember him it being leaked there was a separation, then hushed up). Pagano said it was just a sore shoulder, and I called B.S. But nobody here believed me.  They believed Pagano, and thought he would miss no time. Luck did miss time  returned after missing 2 games with said 'sore shoulder, and receiving injections for the pain of that (and reportedly rib issues). After playing 4 more games, he suffered a kidney laceration and stomach muscle pull which I said would pretty much use up all the season to recover from.  Folks here predicted he'd be back in 2 weeks.  He did miss the season,(all the rest of it) and had all of that time, plus the complete off season to rehab his shoulder to health. (kidney and stomach were pretty much already fine by then.)  At that point in the middle of 2015 Luck's shoulder was NOT 'fine' and the extended time off allowed Andrew the rest of the 2015 season and off season to 'get fine' for the beginning of 2016.

 

He did rehab into good shape and was fine.  Then, vs the Broncos in week 2 of 2016, Talib picks him off and he hurts his 'fine shoulder'  on that play.   He rehabs and plays, missing practices along the way, but getting better again.  Then in a different game down the road some, he gets in a position to re injure it once more.  All progress lost, hit reset button.  Rehab and progress made... re injury.. miss more practice... more rehab re injure, etc... etc...  Season ends.  How does he just make it so just playing aggressive football doesn't re-aggravate it again in 2017 like happened to him in 2016?  Go under the knife, get repair/reconstruction performed.   In January 2017, he changes course and decides that's probably the best choice. People always hoped he would be ready for game 1 this year, but there was never any promise or guarantee, by anyone he would. 

 

Luck is still recovering, and it is not out of the ordinary in that time frame that he still is.

 

The whole timeline and his condition all along it and Luck's decisions of when to use minimally invasive therapy vs. surgical intervention are all his.  I'm fairly sure nobody on the Colts pressured him into any decision of treatment, just present options and prognosis scenarios.

 

I'm just happy he has essentially recovered from most of the malady's suffered in 2015.  When his shoulder is cleared, all of his issues will have been addressed. 

 

 

 

 

[Superman]

17 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

 

I can agree with the fact it can become worse, but I'd say a torn labrum is pretty serious from the get go.

 

That's a matter of judgment, and it's relative. When the Colts said Luck's shoulder was 'fine' in 2016, it was obviously meant to mean that they didn't expect him to miss any time due to his shoulder. You can take it literally to mean that there was absolutely nothing wrong with his shoulder, but that's disingenuous, IMO, since he was on the injury report and missing practice all season. They meant he was fine to play, and evidently he was, since he didn't miss any time.

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

That's a matter of judgment, and it's relative. When the Colts said Luck's shoulder was 'fine' in 2016, it was obviously meant to mean that they didn't expect him to miss any time due to his shoulder. You can take it literally to mean that there was absolutely nothing wrong with his shoulder, but that's disingenuous, IMO, since he was on the injury report and missing practice all season. They meant he was fine to play, and evidently he was, since he didn't miss any time.

 

What folks forget, almost every player out there, after a little while, is nicked up and injured in some way.  They get some treatment, and go back out there next week and play.  In football parlance, they are 'fine'.  They are not missing time. But they may not be 100%, in fact, most aren't, but play through it.  you hear those stories all of the time.

 

[jaywhy]

Luck should tell the front office that I will be glad to come back when you acquire an OL that can give the QB time to throw the ball.  Many time last year offensive linemen would be the first to help Luck off the ground after a sack.  #74 was good at that.  Have not seen any improvement in their protection. The practices I saw the OL going through drills half speed minimum contact.  We play the game the same. 

[GoColts8818]

On 8/31/2017 at 2:55 PM, csmopar said:

Dakich saying AL out for season per his sources, take it with a grain of salt.

Dakich said today he plays week 2.  Further proof dakich changes options faster than the weather changes.  

[ricker182]

10 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Dakich said today he plays week 2.  Further proof dakich changes options faster than the weather changes.  

That's one hell of a change.  

  

I'm still saying 4-6 weeks.  

But I've been praying to the football gods and Andrew's psychiatrist like Irsay said so maybe it will only be 2.

[Dingus McGirt]

Too bad the football gods seem to wear Patriots jerseys.

[Fisticuffs111]

My take on the whole "Luck in '16" situation is this.

I find it hard to believe he didn't know essentially how messed up his shoulder was throughout at least a good portion of the '16 season. I think it was an injury that he could rehab and play through, with the help of some good painkillers, because he couldn't even throw during the week in practice, but also an injury that he knew he'd very likely need to get operated on in the future. At the very least I think he knew he'd need surgery toward the end of the season.

I feel like this view has been made to imply that the FO/coaches/Luck were in the wrong, but it's not. It's just how I think it went down. Luck can do whatever he wants, and I think he really wanted to play. Would I rather he have been shut down and had the surgery? Sure, but I believe the coaches and FO were just going with what Luck wanted.

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

My take on the whole "Luck in '16" situation is this.

I find it hard to believe he didn't know essentially how messed up his shoulder was throughout at least a good portion of the '16 season. I think it was an injury that he could rehab and play through, with the help of some good painkillers, because he couldn't even throw during the week in practice, but also an injury that he knew he'd very likely need to get operated on in the future. At the very least I think he knew he'd need surgery toward the end of the season.

I feel like ^ this view has been made to imply that Irsay and Luck were in the wrong, but it's not. It's just how I think it went down. Luck can do whatever he wants, and I think he really wanted to play. Would I rather have he been shut down and had the surgery? Sure, but I believe the coaches and FO were just going with what Luck wanted.

Exactly! It was and had always been Luck's choice on what to do. The staff could only go by his word on how he felt.

[2006Coltsbestever]

At 359PM he will be just to make people sweat!

[chad72]

On 8/31/2017 at 0:08 PM, stitches said:

I don't know if this means anything but... oh well... for whatever it's worth:

 

 

 

Staffers don't do surgery.

[ColtsBlitz]

literally at the deadline

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, ColtsBlitz said:

literally at the deadline

Yep he is off, I just heard it locally. Not sure when he will play though?

[IinD]

Great to hear he's off PUP, but it sucks because I don't see him being ready in a couple of weeks.

 

So he probably misses 25% of the season I'm assuming (4 games)??

 

[IinD]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yep he is off, I just heard it locally. Not sure when he will play though?

That's what I'm now wondering as well (my post below yours).

 

No way he practices a few times and he's good to go.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, IinD said:

That's what I'm now wondering as well (my post below yours).

 

No way he practices a few times and he's good to go.

I don't know, Andrew is of a different breed. It wouldn't shock me if he played on opening day and we just got Brissett to have a solid backup in case Andrew gets injured again.

[IinD]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't know, Andrew is of a different breed. It wouldn't shock me if he played on opening day and we just got Brissett to have a solid backup in case Andrew gets injured again.

Very true.

This is definitely a wait and see deal.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, IinD said:

Very true.

This is definitely a wait and see deal.

 

I am thinking now it will be Week 2 if I had to guess vs the Cards when he plays. I am thinking Brissett plays against the Rams and we take a gamble with him and try to win that one without Luck. It's doable because the Rams aren't that good.