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PFF Ranks NFL O-Lines For 2017

Track Guy

By Track Guy
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Cynjin

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"The starting five for the Indianapolis Colts was significantly better than any combination they were forced to field that included backups; unfortunately, bench players were called into action for much of the season. LT Anthony Castonzo had a good season, especially as a run blocker, while rookie C Ryan Kelly had a solid first season in the league, and has yet to allow an NFL sack. Jack Mewhort was decent at LG, but he played in just 10 games, and wasn’t the same player after returning from injury in Week 11. Every other lineman the team was forced to use this season struggled to one degree or another, some having the kind of games that can single-handedly wreck an offensive game plan."

 

I'm not trying to be too picky, well yes I probably am, but JM did not return from that injury.  IIRC.

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zibby43 Active Roster

zibby43

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Castanzo was heckled mercilessly for his performance in '15 (deservedly so, as AC will be the first one to admit that he under-performed). 

 

However, people still criticized him this year, and I didn't understand that.  Based on what I was seeing on tape, particularly as the season progressed, I was impressed by AC's performance in the '16 season.

 

Top overall grade: LT Anthony Castonzo, 84.2 (No. 20)

Top pass-blocking grade: C Ryan Kelly, 83.1 (No. 12)

Top run-blocking grade: LT Anthony Castonzo, 84.1 (No. 9)

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Derakynn

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41 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

Castanzo was heckled mercilessly for his performance in '15 (deservedly so, as AC will be the first one to admit that he under-performed). 

 

However, people still criticized him this year, and I didn't understand that.  Based on what I was seeing on tape, particularly as the season progressed, I was impressed by AC's performance in the '16 season.

 

Top overall grade: LT Anthony Castonzo, 84.2 (No. 20)

Top pass-blocking grade: C Ryan Kelly, 83.1 (No. 12)

Top run-blocking grade: LT Anthony Castonzo, 84.1 (No. 9)

Castanzo was ragdolling worse than Reitz at the beginning of the season. One of the main reasons I don't put much stock in PFF. Seemed like the more he was tossed around, the more inclined they were to give him a better grade. I assume he improved as the season went on as I don't recall as many bad plays recently. 

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Track Guy Walk On

Track Guy

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16 minutes ago, Derakynn said:

Castanzo was ragdolling worse than Reitz at the beginning of the season. One of the main reasons I don't put much stock in PFF. Seemed like the more he was tossed around, the more inclined they were to give him a better grade. I assume he improved as the season went on as I don't recall as many bad plays recently. 

 

Yeah he played noticeably better late in the back half of the season than at the start. 

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TigerColt

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Top overall grade: C Cody Whitehair, 87.2 (No. 6)

Top pass-blocking grade: G Josh Sitton, 91.2 (No. 3)

Top run-blocking grade: C Cody Whitehair, 82.2 (No. 6)

 

Soooooo the colts trade down and miss on getting Whitehair (still a need position at RG) and then pick Green, a talented but raw prospect that will need years to develop (if we are lucky).  Whitehair came in and excelled right away.  That is what you want from a second round pick.  Development picks come in the later rounds.

This is one of the main reasons i think Grigson is not the man for the job.  

 

Joseph

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Andrew Luck fan club

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21 minutes ago, cjrichard said:

Top overall grade: C Cody Whitehair, 87.2 (No. 6)

Top pass-blocking grade: G Josh Sitton, 91.2 (No. 3)

Top run-blocking grade: C Cody Whitehair, 82.2 (No. 6)

 

Soooooo the colts trade down and miss on getting Whitehair (still a need position at RG) and then pick Green, a talented but raw prospect that will need years to develop (if we are lucky).  Whitehair came in and excelled right away.  That is what you want from a second round pick.  Development picks come in the later rounds.

This is one of the main reasons i think Grigson is not the man for the job.  

 

Joseph

I thought we were going to get whitehair! He was a well known name. I also think the C Houston got(martin?) would have had a nice year if he didn't get injured. 

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throwing BBZ

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8 hours ago, Matabix said:

If we could get 1 FA this year I would like Keven Zeitler. Spend draft on defense and RB. Let Good back up 3 spots and Haeg and Clark fight for RT.

 

 I like the plan. Except. Let Clark play RT and Haeg backup 3 spots.
 If Good does not start very soon getting in shape for 2017 look for his replacement.

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Track Guy Walk On

Track Guy

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5 hours ago, il vecchio said:

It seems the point to take from this is the capability of an OL, at least the PFF measure of it, is not worth a lot of worry in building a team.

The team listed with the very worst OL is in the playoffs and the team with the very best OL didn't make it.

 

I got the exact opposite from these rankings. 5 of the top 6 teams were in the playoffs - 11 of the bottom 12 weren't.

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ClaytonColt Practice Squad

ClaytonColt

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1 hour ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Time to to get defense playmakers through the draft. A 1st rounder or even 2nd could make a big impact. That's how you build teams. 

Long term I agree but we lack playmaker in every area of our defense so unless we hit on 4 or 5 from the same draft or wait for 2-3 years then we need some impact from free agents on their prime.

 

We've prioritised our offence over defense ever since we drafted luck. We can't keep pouring resource into it and ignoring the defense.

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Andrew Luck fan club

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1 minute ago, ClaytonColt said:

Long term I agree but we lack playmaker in every area of our defense so unless we hit on 4 or 5 from the same draft or wait for 2-3 years then we need some impact from free agents on their prime.

 

We've prioritised our offence over defense ever since we drafted luck. We can't keep pouring resource into it and ignoring the defense.

I'd be just fine if they took a Poe/Berry type player instead of Zeitler. I'm all about the defense too.

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dgambill

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11 hours ago, cjrichard said:

Top overall grade: C Cody Whitehair, 87.2 (No. 6)

Top pass-blocking grade: G Josh Sitton, 91.2 (No. 3)

Top run-blocking grade: C Cody Whitehair, 82.2 (No. 6)

 

Soooooo the colts trade down and miss on getting Whitehair (still a need position at RG) and then pick Green, a talented but raw prospect that will need years to develop (if we are lucky).  Whitehair came in and excelled right away.  That is what you want from a second round pick.  Development picks come in the later rounds.

This is one of the main reasons i think Grigson is not the man for the job.  

 

Joseph

Why would we target Whitehair for center after we took a center in the 1st rd? We have no evidence Cody can play Guard nearly as effective as he did center. I would have liked to get help on defense in the first rd last year but Kelly had proven to be a good player and I'm not sorry for that. Even when we make a good pick it's just never good enough is it? I'm pretty happy with how the draft turned out last year. I think it was Grigsons best. Getting Clark and Haeg in later rounds I think gave me a little hope in his ability to judge OL talent after some big misses in FA. If he can pull another draft like that this year on the defensive side of the ball we will definitely start making some progress on that side of the ball. I think a full year in the weight room and with our OL coaches etc Haeg and Clark will make more progress. Besides QB and CB I think OL is the hardest transition for a rookie in the NFL...I mean to go from college blocking boys to the pros against the Macks, Clowneys, and Millers of the world...wow that's a jump.

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11 hours ago, dgambill said:

Why would we target Whitehair for center after we took a center in the 1st rd? We have no evidence Cody can play Guard nearly as effective as he did center. I would have liked to get help on defense in the first rd last year but Kelly had proven to be a good player and I'm not sorry for that. Even when we make a good pick it's just never good enough is it? I'm pretty happy with how the draft turned out last year. I think it was Grigsons best. Getting Clark and Haeg in later rounds I think gave me a little hope in his ability to judge OL talent after some big misses in FA. If he can pull another draft like that this year on the defensive side of the ball we will definitely start making some progress on that side of the ball. I think a full year in the weight room and with our OL coaches etc Haeg and Clark will make more progress. Besides QB and CB I think OL is the hardest transition for a rookie in the NFL...I mean to go from college blocking boys to the pros against the Macks, Clowneys, and Millers of the world...wow that's a jump.

Whitehair was not a center prospect coming into the draft, he played mostly tackle and was projected at G.  He was the highest rated G (a position of need for us). He also had the ability to play across the line which also makes him valuable IMO.   So we COULD have gotten the highest rated C and G in the same draft but Grigson managed to screw that up.  I gave Grigs a standing O when he picked Kelly but was left scratching my head on the trade down and Green pick.

 

bearsb_logo.gif Chicago Bears: Cody Whitehair, G/OT/C, Kansas State A+ Grade 
Wow, what a great pick. An A+ for the Bears, for sure. First of all, Cody Whitehair was projected by some to be chosen at the end of the first round, so they're getting great value at this spot. Second, Whitehair fills a big need; Chicago's offensive line had its issues heading into the draft, and Whitehair can pretty much play every single position up front (though he's best as a guard). And third, Chicago obtained him after trading down twice! This is excellent drafting by the Bears.
 

 

Joseph

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dgambill

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4 hours ago, cjrichard said:

Whitehair was not a center prospect coming into the draft, he played mostly tackle and was projected at G.  He was the highest rated G (a position of need for us). He also had the ability to play across the line which also makes him valuable IMO.   So we COULD have gotten the highest rated C and G in the same draft but Grigson managed to screw that up.  I gave Grigs a standing O when he picked Kelly but was left scratching my head on the trade down and Green pick.

 

bearsb_logo.gif Chicago Bears: Cody Whitehair, G/OT/C, Kansas State A+ Grade 
Wow, what a great pick. An A+ for the Bears, for sure. First of all, Cody Whitehair was projected by some to be chosen at the end of the first round, so they're getting great value at this spot. Second, Whitehair fills a big need; Chicago's offensive line had its issues heading into the draft, and Whitehair can pretty much play every single position up front (though he's best as a guard). And third, Chicago obtained him after trading down twice! This is excellent drafting by the Bears.
 

 

Joseph

Point being we still do not know if he can play guard even close to as well as he has played center this year. It also didn't hurt that they had a really good guard next to him in Kyle Long and then with Josh Sitton a pro bowl caliber guard came over from the Packers its pretty easy to say that Cody had A LOT of help on either side of him to usher him through his first season. As it stands we can say he is off to a promising career at Center but we have 0 evidence he would be anywhere near as good playing Guard. So while yes we could have had both players it is also unclear that Whitehair was going to be a slam dunk guard. In fact if my memory serves me correctly he wasn't exactly lighting it up in preseason and when the injury to their center happened they had the opportunity to bring in Sitton for a lot of money and that was the move that solidified the core of that line. Again he has looked promising but if his best position is Center and we just took the consensus best Center in the draft its not like taking Cody in the second was such a no brainer. Besides by moving back didn't we get an extra pick that we could turn into Haeg? I still believe Haeg and Clark have a lot of potential to be pretty decent so in the long run it might actually end up ahead by moving back. I think Chuck put a lot of pressure on Ryan to get Green in the second and while its still on Ryan to make the picks I think he was trying to work more closely with his HC something he was accused of not listening to enough in his first tenure.

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dgambill

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1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

There's no way to judge the validity of what is here..

 

..but its very interesting

Probably not but when the teams you expect to be at the top ARE at the top and the players you would expect to be ranked highly are I would say it isn't perfect but from the eye test it seems to be a pretty good ranking system.

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6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Probably not but when the teams you expect to be at the top ARE at the top and the players you would expect to be ranked highly are I would say it isn't perfect but from the eye test it seems to be a pretty good ranking system.

Not disputing but I dont knw how you analyze one player next to another when O-line play is a group effort success or failure..

Bears are a good example..did the line

make Jordan Howrad or did he make the line effective.

I cant tell

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dgambill

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2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Not disputing but I dont knw how you analyze one player next to another when O-line play is a group effort success or failure..

Bears are a good example..did the line

make Jordan Howrad or did he make the line effective.

I cant tell

It is a team sport so sure...but there are guys that look at each individual play and look to see if the line blocked it properly and if Jordan hit the correct hole...of course it isn't perfect but it is pretty easy to tell if a guy whiffed on a block or if he got his job done. Its not a perfect science I'm sure and I'm sure if you get a person that might not grade the game very well if they aren't good at it then it would throw things off but when when the crème of the crop make their way to the top of the grading system I'd say overall it gives another piece of information to make a judgement on a player. Looking at their rankings and then using an eye test of teams that are good at running the ball and protecting their qb and the numbers are supported by rushing yards etc I think overall it might not be perfect but its a good indication of how well some of these guys are playing. If my eye told me one thing and the stats another I'd get what your saying but on most of these teams especially it seems to match up.

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SaturdayAllDay

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1 hour ago, dgambill said:

It is a team sport so sure...but there are guys that look at each individual play and look to see if the line blocked it properly and if Jordan hit the correct hole...of course it isn't perfect but it is pretty easy to tell if a guy whiffed on a block or if he got his job done. Its not a perfect science I'm sure and I'm sure if you get a person that might not grade the game very well if they aren't good at it then it would throw things off but when when the crème of the crop make their way to the top of the grading system I'd say overall it gives another piece of information to make a judgement on a player. Looking at their rankings and then using an eye test of teams that are good at running the ball and protecting their qb and the numbers are supported by rushing yards etc I think overall it might not be perfect but its a good indication of how well some of these guys are playing. If my eye told me one thing and the stats another I'd get what your saying but on most of these teams especially it seems to match up.

This is true. 

But when you have people making the grades on each play there are always going to be biases and errors. Who's to say that a player isnt judged harder/better because they are told it's a better/worse line going in. 

In the grand scheme of things this is probably something that happens minimally, if at all, but we don't really know. I think that this data typically lines up with the eye test which helps it's validity,  but I don't necessarily take ppf grades as gospel, especially when it comes to the lines.

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