Polian on Mike & Mike

[Ja'Crispy]

Just kind of an interesting change of pace amidst all of the Grigs/Pags talk.

 

Polian was talking about succession plans for old QBs and he said he had the chance to pull the trigger and take Dalton.  He went on to say he very well could still be employed in Indy had he taken Dalton over Castonzo (with the belief the Colts win 6-7 games the year Manning was out). 

 

I don't think it is breaking news that he took a look at Dalton, I remember some speculating he would be a possible selection.  But I thought it was interesting hearing Polian imply that he regrets taking AC over Dalton.  It makes one wonder where the team would be today had Dalton been the choice.

[GoColts8818]

I think Polian regrets it because he views it as costing him his job.

 

If they make that pick the Colts are probably in a similar spot as they are now just with a QB who isn't as good as they have in Luck and maybe still looking for a replacement for Glenn.

[csmopar]

21 minutes ago, Ja'Crispy said:

Just kind of an interesting change of pace amidst all of the Grigs/Pags talk.

 

Polian was talking about succession plans for old QBs and he said he had the chance to pull the trigger and take Dalton.  He went on to say he very well could still be employed in Indy had he taken Dalton over Castonzo (with the belief the Colts win 6-7 games the year Manning was out). 

 

I don't think it is breaking news that he took a look at Dalton, I remember some speculating he would be a possible selection.  But I thought it was interesting hearing Polian imply that he regrets taking AC over Dalton.  It makes one wonder where the team would be today had Dalton been the choice.

3-13 Or worse...... 

[Vinatieri4]

Wow! Andy Dalton could of been a Colt..

 

We missed out big time..

[ColtsFanMikeC]

54 minutes ago, Ja'Crispy said:

Just kind of an interesting change of pace amidst all of the Grigs/Pags talk.

 

Polian was talking about succession plans for old QBs and he said he had the chance to pull the trigger and take Dalton.  He went on to say he very well could still be employed in Indy had he taken Dalton over Castonzo (with the belief the Colts win 6-7 games the year Manning was out). 

 

I don't think it is breaking news that he took a look at Dalton, I remember some speculating he would be a possible selection.  But I thought it was interesting hearing Polian imply that he regrets taking AC over Dalton.  It makes one wonder where the team would be today had Dalton been the choice.

 

I think we'd be way worse off both if we took Dalton and if Polian was still here.  The team he had was built around Peyton.  Mathis and Freeney were able to have their success as pass rushers because Peyton and his offense put up so many points.... if our defense wasn't playing in a lead or a 'shoot-out' they were exposed time and time again -- they were not built to stop the run or play in low-scoring grind 'em out type of games.  They were built to be fast and play on astro-turf, and we got killed by this several times by having to go on the road and play in bad weather in the post-season.

 

Before Peyton was ruled out for the season, most thought the Colts would be a 12+ win team and be atop the AFC.  Losing Peyton brought out the flaws of our team -- heck, when Brady was hurt the Pats brought in Matt Cassel who wasn't even a starter in college and he still won 10 or 11 games.  There is no way a team should go from being projected to win 12+ games to winning 2 games, it might be reasonable to expect a team with their backup QB to go from being a projected 12 game winner to an 8 game winner (maybe even a 6/7 game winner), but not a 2 game winner.

 

Polian (and his son) were certainly on the decline in Indy, they pretty much left this team in shambles.  I don't think there is any way we could be dug out of the hole they left us in without a complete rebuild or without a QB like Aaron Rodgers, Peyton, or Brady who could mask many of the flaws of the team.  Dalton would not have succeeded in Indy, not with the pieces Polian had in place.

 

Polian, IMO, is still bitter towards Irsay and the organization that he was let go.  I do believe Polian was deserving of his HOF induction, but the guy was waning as a GM in an ever changing league and his son was certainly not doing any better.

Edited January 4, 2017 by ColtsFanMikeC

[chad72]

Polian's drafts were sub-par from 2007 onwards while everything until 2006 was a high hit rate with the early round (1st and 2nd) picks. However, we did know what kind of system Dungy was going to run, what system Tom Moore was going to run, and that helped immensely to narrow down draft picks that would work for those systems which also helped Polian draft for those systems. That is one thing Polian did well, draft for the system well. Once his son took over, it went south, the draft picks, most of us probably agree on that.

 

One thing Rick Venturi touched upon as to why teams like the Pats and Steelers are successful is because they know typically what kind of players work well in their system, and he mentioned Dorsett as a "guy without a country". In other words, the Colts offensive system is yet to define or identify his role well enough "is he an Edelman or Amendola type guy or just another guy that is a not-there-yet clone of TY?". Until the coaches figure that out, Dorsett won't be truly productive, and thus it makes him a luxury pick, whichever way you slice it, according to Venturi.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think Polian regrets it because he views it as costing him his job.

 

If they make that pick the Colts are probably in a similar spot as they are now just with a QB who isn't as good as they have in Luck and maybe still looking for a replacement for Glenn.

Or, since they took Ben Ijilana in the second round; in the absence of AC, maybe he starts working out at LT, never hurts his leg, and has become an all-pro.

[twfish]

Just now, DougDew said:

Or, since they took Ben Ijilana in the second round; in the absence of AC, maybe he starts working out at LT, never hurts his leg, and has become an all-pro.

Or since Costanzo  is not there a lt Dalton takes a nasty hit messes up his shoulder and never takes a snap in the nfl again. But hey hypotheticals right? Lol I'd still rather have luck

[Superman]

That awful 2011 season gave Irsay a launchpad to make significant changes, but I do not agree that Polian was fired simply because he didn't have a good backup QB, no matter how many times he says it. And if that was the case, he could have done something other than draft Andy Dalton; it's not like that was his only option for a backup QB.

 

The truth is that Polian's roster was in shambles, outside of QB. That was manifest in 2010, when things started falling apart. You put Dalton as a rookie on that roster, and they probably don't win 6 games, IMO. They might not start 0-13, but Irsay probably still has incentive to find a new GM. If Polian had done a better job drafting and building the roster from 2008 on, then you're probably not the worst team in the league in 2011, your roster is good enough to win 6+ games with a backup QB, and then maybe he wouldn't have been fired. 

[Reboot]

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

That awful 2011 season gave Irsay a launchpad to make significant changes, but I do not agree that Polian was fired simply because he didn't have a good backup QB, no matter how many times he says it. And if that was the case, he could have done something other than draft Andy Dalton; it's not like that was his only option for a backup QB.

 

The truth is that Polian's roster was in shambles, outside of QB. That was manifest in 2010, when things started falling apart. You put Dalton as a rookie on that roster, and they probably don't win 6 games, IMO. They might not start 0-13, but Irsay probably still has incentive to find a new GM. If Polian had done a better job drafting and building the roster from 2008 on, then you're probably not the worst team in the league in 2011, your roster is good enough to win 6+ games with a backup QB, and then maybe he wouldn't have been fired. 

I think the line in the sand was Chris Polian's increased role.  I'm not sure Bill would have made as many mistakes, especially in a row, not to mention the absence of voices like Dom Anile which I think led to an autonomy with Chris that was ill-advised.  Those three drafts, 2009-11, and the Ugoh trade, were a lot to overcome. 

[Tsarquise]

30 minutes ago, Superman said:

That awful 2011 season gave Irsay a launchpad to make significant changes, but I do not agree that Polian was fired simply because he didn't have a good backup QB, no matter how many times he says it. And if that was the case, he could have done something other than draft Andy Dalton; it's not like that was his only option for a backup QB.

 

The truth is that Polian's roster was in shambles, outside of QB. That was manifest in 2010, when things started falling apart. You put Dalton as a rookie on that roster, and they probably don't win 6 games, IMO. They might not start 0-13, but Irsay probably still has incentive to find a new GM. If Polian had done a better job drafting and building the roster from 2008 on, then you're probably not the worst team in the league in 2011, your roster is good enough to win 6+ games with a backup QB, and then maybe he wouldn't have been fired. 

If that roster was in shambles then what do you call the roster now?

[Coltsfan1953]

5 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

If that roster was in shambles then what do you call the roster now?

I'm afraid we are going down the same road.

[grmasterb]

38 minutes ago, Superman said:

That awful 2011 season gave Irsay a launchpad to make significant changes, but I do not agree that Polian was fired simply because he didn't have a good backup QB, no matter how many times he says it. And if that was the case, he could have done something other than draft Andy Dalton; it's not like that was his only option for a backup QB.

 

The truth is that Polian's roster was in shambles, outside of QB. That was manifest in 2010, when things started falling apart. You put Dalton as a rookie on that roster, and they probably don't win 6 games, IMO. They might not start 0-13, but Irsay probably still has incentive to find a new GM. If Polian had done a better job drafting and building the roster from 2008 on, then you're probably not the worst team in the league in 2011, your roster is good enough to win 6+ games with a backup QB, and then maybe he wouldn't have been fired. 

There was also poor cap management, and a reportedly "toxic environment" at the West 56th Street complex bred by Polian tyranny. 

 

Grigson has been a solid cap manager, from which I'm sure Irsay would dislike walking away.

[VaAllDay757]

I'm so glad he did choose AC over dalton....dalton is ok nothing special

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

If that roster was in shambles then what do you call the roster now?

 

The Colts went 6-3 without their QB last year. The 2011 Colts went 2-14. 

 

This roster needs a lot of work, but that roster was awful, the best players were old/injured, and the coaching was terrible.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, grmasterb said:

There was also poor cap management, and a reportedly "toxic environment" at the West 56th Street complex bred by Polian tyranny. 

 

I really dislike when people say "West 56th Street." Nothing personal, just reminds me of Brad Wells.

[PeterBowman]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I really dislike when people say "West 56th Street." Nothing personal, just reminds me of Brad Wells.

please don't mention that name LOL

[Coltfreak]

Polian also stated that Irsay is one of the smartest owners in the league and other than the Rooney's and  Mara's no one knows more about football than these three owners 

 

He also said Jim does not set a timetable to make a decision.   He thinks it through.  He said he wouldn't be surprised if he talked sometime in the next week on what his decision is on this whole matter.    FWIIW he said he is not at all happy with an 8-8 season

 

I for one am glad Irsay thinks through things before making a quick decision

[GoColts8818]

59 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Or, since they took Ben Ijilana in the second round; in the absence of AC, maybe he starts working out at LT, never hurts his leg, and has become an all-pro.

if anything him playing sooner would have probably caused him to hurt his leg sooner.  Polian also made it clear when they took Ijilana he wasn't ready to play right away like Castonzo was, he would have still had to been developed.  

[jet1968]

Polian might be partly right but I think it has some to do with embarassingly bad run defense. Leading up to 2011. Even with no quarterback a good defense at least gives you a chance in games. And that is why I think with a coach that is "defense" minded, even though I'm kind of having doubts on Pagano being defense minded.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

if anything him playing sooner would have probably caused him to hurt his leg sooner.  Polian also made it clear when they took Ijilana he wasn't ready to play right away like Castonzo was, he would have still had to been developed.  

Ultimately, failing to get that one extra superbowl out of those horrible contracts given to Clark, Brackett, Hayden, and Freeney and probably some others is what did him in.

[Tsarquise]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

The Colts went 6-3 without their QB last year. The 2011 Colts went 2-14. 

 

This roster needs a lot of work, but that roster was awful, the best players were old/injured, and the coaching was terrible.

Hasselbeck > Curtis Painter.

That's why last year's team won more.

 

Those old/injured players were better than our young/injured players.

I would take Mathis, Freeney, Reggie, Garcon, Collie, Clark, and Bethea over the current Colts counter parts. 

 

They're both bad, but that 2011 roster wasn't indubitably worst than the current one.

[i am yoda]

27 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

Hasselbeck > Curtis Painter.

That's why last year's team won more.

 

Those old/injured players were better than our young/injured players.

I would take Mathis, Freeney, Reggie, Garcon, Collie, Clark, and Bethea over the current Colts counter parts. 

 

They're both bad, but that 2011 roster wasn't indubitably worst than the current one.

 

I was thinking the same thing.  I'm completely unimpressed with Grigson's roster.

[dw49]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

That awful 2011 season gave Irsay a launchpad to make significant changes, but I do not agree that Polian was fired simply because he didn't have a good backup QB, no matter how many times he says it. And if that was the case, he could have done something other than draft Andy Dalton; it's not like that was his only option for a backup QB.

 

The truth is that Polian's roster was in shambles, outside of QB. That was manifest in 2010, when things started falling apart. You put Dalton as a rookie on that roster, and they probably don't win 6 games, IMO. They might not start 0-13, but Irsay probably still has incentive to find a new GM. If Polian had done a better job drafting and building the roster from 2008 on, then you're probably not the worst team in the league in 2011, your roster is good enough to win 6+ games with a backup QB, and then maybe he wouldn't have been fired. 

 

 

Polian was getting delusional IMO. He was saying some pretty ridiculous things in his last few years. He took credit for drafting Manning over Leaf when he was the only one of the 3 that was even considering Leaf. Irsay and Mora were 101% Manning. He made some really disjointed remarks after the Colts pulled the plug on their chance to go undefeated. Furthermore his son was a disaster. 

 

As far as "keeping his job by drafting Dalton " , that proves what I'm saying . Old age is getting him because that makes no sense. The team was as you say .. devoid of talent other than Manning . I remember saying the team wouldn't win 3 games with that roster. People laughed at me and to think management thought it was a 5-7 win team with those disasters at QB is further telling... What do you think it would have done with a 1st year Andy Dalton at QB ? Just enough to drop to 3rd and draft TR or Kalil ? If we got lucky , we would have stayed at 1 or 2 and probably traded the pick away ? 

[SteelDragon]

I still contend even Chris Polian could have done no worse than Grigson's three whiffs in a row on first round selections.  If the Polians would have been ordered by Irsay to rebuild with Andrew Luck, they would have done just as well or better. 

I also contend we would have been better than 2-14 during the 2011 season if ancient Kerry Collins would have been healthy. 

Firing the Polians may well have been the right move, but hiring Grigson was a regrettable mistake.  

 

 

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, SteelDragon said:

I still contend even Chris Polian could have done no worse than Grigson's three whiffs in a row on first round selections.  If the Polians would have been ordered by Irsay to rebuild with Andrew Luck, they would have done just as well or better. 

I also contend we would have been better than 2-14 during the 2011 season if ancient Kerry Collins would have been healthy. 

Firing the Polians may well have been the right move, but hiring Grigson was a regrettable mistake.  

 

 

Looking back, the way Polian handled the backup QB situation was horrible.  He got Collins about 1 week before the season started, because Manning finally said that he couldn't play.  Collins embarrased himself and the organization with the way he played.

 

Polian should have brought a backup QB early in training camp as insurance against Manning's injury.  We knew there were questions surrounding his neck and to go in with Painter alone was foolish.

[Patagonia Chris]

I know he's getting up there in age, so maybe it's dementia, but Bill Polian suffers from a worse case of revisionist history than that guy in your fantasy league who spends every off-season crying about how he would have won it all if only he had "drafted David Johnson over Adrian Peterson and Zeke Elliot over Frank Gore!". Polian has changed his story so many times when it comes to his Colts tenure. He "almost" drafted TJ Yates late, which would have solved the QB problem that season. (Supposedly, according to him.) He "only drafted Jerry Hughes because he was the last player on the board with a first round grade", then the story became "he should have went with Roger Saffold instead.", then back to Jerry Hughes is a great player and nobody knows that like him, because he drafted him! As an employee at ESPN he ranked Donald Brown and Antoine Bethea as 2 of the top 5 free agents in their draft class. Now I guess the story is that he wanted Dalton over Castanzo. I would have loved to see the whole world's reaction if he would have used a first round pick on a QB who would have started one season out of five with the team. Polian was a great GM, but man just it let go, you lost your job because you drafted players like a monkey throwing darts a draft board for the last few seasons. There were plenty of QB's out there who could have "won 6 or 7" games that season, they went 2-14 because their back-up plan was signing a 40 year old QB, two weeks before the season started, and hoping he could take the reigns despite spending all off-season writing country songs.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Tsarquise said:

Hasselbeck > Curtis Painter.

That's why last year's team won more.

 

Those old/injured players were better than our young/injured players.

I would take Mathis, Freeney, Reggie, Garcon, Collie, Clark, and Bethea over the current Colts counter parts. 

 

They're both bad, but that 2011 roster wasn't indubitably worst than the current one.

 

I disagree. That 2011 roster was much worse. 

 

But the bigger point is that it had deteriorated over the course of 3+ years, to the point that they struggled to get 10 wins in 2010, with Manning. To say that Polian was fired simply because he didn't have a backup QB has always been silly to me. The 

[dgambill]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I disagree. That 2011 roster was much worse. 

 

But the bigger point is that it had deteriorated over the course of 3+ years, to the point that they struggled to get 10 wins in 2010, with Manning. To say that Polian was fired simply because he didn't have a backup QB has always been silly to me. The 

I agree and disagree. I think Irsay felt that with Peyton's injury and risk of ever returning there was chance that Irsay blew it up and started over regardless...and knowing the loyalty of the staff to Peyton they wouldn't be staying and shipping Peyton out. That said however it would be imcredibly interesting if we won just a couple more games we might not been in position to draft Luck and so maybe we do bring everyone back. Polian got caught with his pants down. Bringing a qb out of retirement and having Curtis painter on the roster...yeah that's in prepared. I think the real issue was this defense was built bend but don't break...but our offense was putrid and they wore down our defense and that's why we lost most games. Why was the offense so bad?? Combination of bad qb play but also running an offense designed intimately for Peyton Manning...he made that offense. Putting anyone else out there trying to immulste PM....that's even worse than putting in a bad qb in an offense that will limit their bad play. The system just compounded the ineptitude of our QBs. Had we had a good backup yes we win more but the real problem is an offense so so so dependent on 1 player...one that you can't replace honestly. So who knows it's all ifs and buts...there were more reasons for Polian going but let him believe what he wants. He gave us a wonderful team to watch and I'm grateful to him for that. But I think we still had as much if not more talent on that team as we do now. We way way underachieved...and that's why Caldwell was fired and also why Polian was replaced and we started a new era in Indy.

[James Ducheteau]

17 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think Polian regrets it because he views it as costing him his job.

 

If they make that pick the Colts are probably in a similar spot as they are now just with a QB who isn't as good as they have in Luck and maybe still looking for a replacement for Glenn.

Glenn's retirement really hurt this team, I'm not sure we ever recovered from that. People forget how scary good he was and how young he was when he retired. I think if we would have had him against the Saints we win that Superbowl.

[lollygagger8]

Just go sit down already, Na'Polian. 

 

[Coffeedrinker]

I miss Polian.  The Colts would be a lot better team now if he was still running the show.