on JMV today / Peyton Manning rumors (merge)

[King Colt]

Name the former and current successful GMs for the past 30 years that were excellent players. If anything Peyton's legacy is his preparation work which has nothing to do with judging talent and putting that talent in a position to succeed.

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, King Colt said:

Name the former and current successful GMs for the past 30 years that were excellent players. If anything Peyton's legacy is his preparation work which has nothing to do with judging talent and putting that talent in a position to succeed.

Manning isn't ordinary..You can't compare him to other's. .

[King Colt]

Just now, jshipp23 said:

Manning isn't ordinary..You can't compare him to other's. .

Relate his history to qualifications for a GM job. Being a good swimmer has nothing to do with being a good fisherman.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Not that I want Manning, but John Elway has shown that its possible to get plucked from stardom and put into GMing and being successful.

 

That's not what happened with John Elway.

[King Colt]

Just now, Superman said:

 

That's not what happened with John Elway.

That's one!

[Superman]

2 hours ago, Buddy Lee said:

I would also look into Duke Tobin. The Bengals haven't had a miss in the draft in ages.

 

Duke Tobin would be a great hire, but has said he doesn't intend to leave the Bengals. He's the de facto GM there, and has a crew he likes working with, including his dad.

[Reboot]

10 minutes ago, King Colt said:

Name the former and current successful GMs for the past 30 years that were excellent players. If anything Peyton's legacy is his preparation work which has nothing to do with judging talent and putting that talent in a position to succeed.

Ozzie Newsome is the only one I can think of.  Other than Elway. 

 

Here's an article from a few years ago about where GMs come from.  At the time, 6% were former players.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1648178-where-do-nfl-gms-come-from

[Superman]

3 hours ago, Dirty Mudflaps said:

 

My best guess is the answer is Jim Irsay himself.  Named GM of the Colts at the age of 24.  Jim's major in college wasn't even business related, it was in something like media or journalism.  Now Jim did work in ticket sales and public relations, and surely other areas, so he was working for the Colts from 82 until named the GM in 84.  But that's as close as I could come to finding an answer. 

 

There were dark years during his time as GM.  But he didn't do as poorly as I thought he would, and was better than his predecessor - those last years in Baltimore were horrible teams. 

 

What scares me about the above is, I wonder if Jim figures since he could do it, surely Peyton could.  

 

Irsay wasn't a good GM, and has said so himself. He wasn't atrocious, but his tenure was decidedly average, and that's why Bob Irsay hired Bill Tobin.

[Buddy Lee]

21 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Duke Tobin would be a great hire, but has said he doesn't intend to leave the Bengals. He's the de facto GM there, and has a crew he likes working with, including his dad.

I didn't realize his dad worked for the Bengals. In what capacity?

 

As far as I'm concerned he could bring his crew along.

 

[Superman]

6 hours ago, CoachLite said:

That (money lures free agents) is what most people think. In reality, there is much more to it. After a player gets to a certain level of pay (felt-fair pay level), team culture, potential, and playoff opportunities kick in. If these other criteria aren't present, players will ask for much more money and the GM will have to overpay for talent. Sound familiar?  Players and their agents aren't dumb.

 

Players and their agents make money their first, second and third priority. Sure, if they have two mostly equal offers, one from a perennial playoff team and the other from an also-ran, they'll go with the playoff team.

 

But there were lots of teams interested in Malik Jackson last year; he turned down $10m+/year from the defending champs -- the team that drafted him, where he spent the first four years of his career, with one of the best GMs in the league -- because the Jags offered him $14m/year. He chased the money.

 

There are several other examples of this. Most free agents, especially marquee guys in their prime, chase the money. Doesn't mean they're dumb, it means they want to maximize their earning potential. 

 

This idea that marquee free agents in their prime shop around for the ideal situation, even leaving money on the table in free agency, isn't supported in historical fact. Guys at the end of their career, like Manning, Gore, AJ, Steve Smith, etc., sure, all the time. Guys taking less to stay with the team they've been with, yes. But a big ticket free agent, in his prime -- the kind of players that everyone gets so excited about -- they hit free agency looking for the biggest payday they can find.

[Buddy Lee]

23 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Duke Tobin would be a great hire, but has said he doesn't intend to leave the Bengals. He's the de facto GM there, and has a crew he likes working with, including his dad.

I did some Google research regarding Duke Tobin's dad, Bill.

I came up with this gem. Dan Patrick looking young and is that Keith Olberman wearing a mustache?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHiUqL2KLiM

 

[gacoop1]

Anyone would be a blessing right now other than those bozos we have/

[The Fish]

If Peyton honestly thinks he could swing it, than cool. I think it's kind of hard to speculate on what he does and doesn't know about talent evaluation. He might know a heck of a lot more about it than some here are thinking, he might also be clueless.

If it's a possibility, it needs to be explored and honestly evaluated. 

[jshipp23]

2 minutes ago, The Fish said:

If Peyton honestly thinks he could swing it, than cool. I think it's kind of hard to speculate on what he does and doesn't know about talent evaluation. He might know a heck of a lot more about it than some here are thinking, he might also be clueless.

If it's a possibility, it needs to be explored and honestly evaluated. 

He actually played and had to watch film of guys, so it's a good possibility he could spot a good player..I think he is pretty damn qualiied..More qualified than guys who never played or studied at his level..Just a thought..

[Buddy Lee]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Players and their agents make money their first, second and third priority. Sure, if they have two mostly equal offers, one from a perennial playoff team and the other from an also-ran, they'll go with the playoff team.

 

But there were lots of teams interested in Malik Jackson last year; he turned down $10m+/year from the defending champs -- the team that drafted him, where he spent the first four years of his career, with one of the best GMs in the league -- because the Jags offered him $14m/year. He chased the money.

 

There are several other examples of this. Most free agents, especially marquee guys in their prime, chase the money. Doesn't mean they're dumb, it means they want to maximize their earning potential. 

 

This idea that marquee free agents in their prime shop around for the ideal situation, even leaving money on the table in free agency, isn't supported in historical fact. Guys at the end of their career, like Manning, Gore, AJ, Steve Smith, etc., sure, all the time. Guys taking less to stay with the team they've been with, yes. But a big ticket free agent, in his prime -- the kind of players that everyone gets so excited about -- they hit free agency looking for the biggest payday they can find.

I have always thought that agents are a big part of players going to the highest bidder. Agents have the players' ear. Agents don't benefit from good locker room chemistry, comradery or the thrill of victory. They benefit from big money contracts. So what do you think agents are advising players to do?

 

OK. Call me a cynic. But usually people tend to do what is in their own best interest.

[IndySouthsider]

Peyton doesn't have time. Gotta be ready for the Role of a lifetime Coach Gary!

[The Fish]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

He actually played and had to watch film of guys, so it's a good possibility he could spot a good player..I think he is pretty damn qualiied..More qualified than guys who never played or studied at his level..Just a thought..

My gut instinct is that, yeah, he'd get good at it quick, if he's lacking now.

His capacity (and tolerance) for watching film is legendary. And, we're talking about the only guy who ever got credit for matching wits with BB. They know stuff..

 

He'd be raw, but I'm guessing if he had the right people around him to push paper work and work the adding machines (are those still a thing?) it could work.

I appreciate not wanting to let a guy learn on the job when the franchise is at stake. There's safer moves to be made, but this one could work. Especially since the QB is in place.

 

[Archer]

Okay...not from  Indy...who is JMV?

[jshipp23]

2 minutes ago, The Fish said:

My gut instinct is that, yeah, he'd get good at it quick, if he's lacking now.

His capacity (and tolerance) for watching film is legendary. And, we're talking about the only guy who ever got credit for matching wits with BB. They know stuff..

 

He'd be raw, but I'm guessing if he had the right people around him to push paper work and work the adding machines (are those still a thing?) it could work.

I appreciate not wanting to let a guy learn on the job when the franchise is at stake. There's safer moves to be made, but this one could work. Especially since the QB is in place.

 

Paperwork pushers, accountants who would tell him the logistics is key..I think he could SPOT a player better than anyone..

[mahagga73]

3 minutes ago, Archer said:

Okay...not from  Indy...who is JMV?

Radio personality. He's pretty good. 

[jshipp23]

3 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Paperwork pushers, accountants who would tell him the logistics is key..I think he could SPOT a player better than anyone..

Every team has a $$ MONEY guy trust me..If the GM listens is another story, I think Peyton would listen..

[James Ducheteau]

18 hours ago, Superman said:

 

First, Grigson's years as a scout are experience that Peyton doesn't have, as he's never scouted players. Grigson was even an assistant coach for a season.

 

Second, your post is inaccurate. Grigson was an ascending scout for 8 years. In 2006, he became Director of College Scouting, and in 2010 he became Director of Personnel. He worked in a lot of front offices, went to a lot of combines and pro days, conducted a lot of workouts and tryouts, sat in on a lot of pre-draft meetings, helped set a lot of boards, and was in a lot of draft rooms. He had 14 years of experience in personnel prior to becoming the Colts GM, including 6 years in the front office for the Eagles.

 

I'm all for giving Manning a chance. I actually think he'd make a great GM, if he wanted to go down that path. As you said, he's intelligent, knows the game, and has as great a work ethic as anyone. But all those things were true of Matt Millen, who also became GM with zero experience.

 

Right now, he has close to zero experience in this capacity, and is not qualified to run an entire program. At best, he'd be a figurehead taking credit for the work of others; at worst, he'd actually try to do the job without the experience, and be bad at it.

 

Like I said, add him to the program, let him learn the ropes, and eventually he can step into the main job. But it would be a mistake to just hand it to him when he has zero experience in business or sports personnel. 

You can't honestly believe that Manning would be the next Matt Millen? I know there's no way to prove one way or the other but I'd  bet money that he'd do better than a 1/4 of the GM's out their right now.

[jshipp23]

3 minutes ago, James Ducheteau said:

You can't honestly believe that Manning would be the next Matt Millen? I know there's no way to prove one way or the other but I'd  bet money that he'd do better than a 1/4 of the GM's out their right now.

Agreed. .They r trying to compare Manning to regular people...I personally think he would be a belichik type coach or gm..He was basically the OC his time here so give him at least 10 yrs OC experience even HC tbh..

[Superman]

21 minutes ago, Buddy Lee said:

I have always thought that agents are a big part of players going to the highest bidder. Agents have the players' ear. Agents don't benefit from good locker room chemistry, comradery or the thrill of victory. They benefit from big money contracts. So what do you think agents are advising players to do?

 

OK. Call me a cynic. But usually people tend to do what is in their own best interest.

 

I agree with all of that. Especially in the NFL, where most guys are going to get just one big contract, and might not even finish it. It could be argued that the money grab is in the player's best interests, long term. 

[James Ducheteau]

I trust the whole Manning institution, they know their brand, and you know he would get all their opinions, if they all agreed and encouraged him to do it, and he wanted to do it...I have no doubt he'd do a good job...He isn't going to accept something unless he believes he can succeed at it...and for me, that'd be enough to give him a shot.

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, James Ducheteau said:

You can't honestly believe that Manning would be the next Matt Millen? I know there's no way to prove one way or the other but I'd  bet money that he'd do better than a 1/4 of the GM's out their right now.

 

No, I don't, and didn't say I do. The other poster was saying that guys with experience have failed; my point is that guys without experience have also failed (like Matt Millen), not that Manning would be next Matt Millen.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

I think we all know this isn't going to happen.. lol

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

That's not what happened with John Elway.

How did Elway do it?

 

How ever it was, I'm assuming Irsay would have the same plan for Manning.  Maybe not GM next season but it might be a plan for a few years down the road.

[The Fish]

4 minutes ago, 12to13 said:

I think we all know this isn't going to happen.. lol

We do? I'd bet the farm Irsay wants this to happen, if not now, then down the line. Do you know what Peyton wants to do? I don't. 

[jshipp23]

Just now, The Fish said:

We do? I'd bet the farm Irsay wants this to happen, if not now, then down the line. Do you know what Peyton wants to do? I don't. 

It could happen..If it does its promising for Colts fans, and im fine with Grigson, if we fire him I guarantee he has job opportunities 

[Superman]

17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

How did Elway do it?

 

How ever it was, I'm assuming Irsay would have the same plan for Manning.  Maybe not GM next season but it might be a plan for a few years down the road.

 

Elway didn't join the Broncos for 12 years. He wasn't GM until two years later. You can read about his business experience and football exec work prior to 2012, I've already posted a lot of it in this thread. Point is, he had a lot of experience that Manning doesn't.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Elway#Business_activities

[Steamboat_Shaun]

5 hours ago, Gramz said:

If I may.....  we know he has incredible football IQ,  he graduated Phi Beta Kappa, high honors from College,  he's highly intelligent and he's a people person.  He's also a quick study.  Like Elway, he would probably do well getting players from Free Agency, (I mean, who wouldn't want to come play for a man with the intensity and drive to build a championship team?)  And so on......

 

I think having Peyton on board here, no matter what the capacity, would be great for us.  JMO.

 

It's funny to me how everyone on this forum thinks that they should be the GM of the Colts, yet so many scoff at the idea of Manning doing the job. He's a complete football savant, and regardless of how green he would be at the job, I personally feel that evaluating talent (biggest part of the job) would come very naturally to him.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Elway didn't join the Broncos for 12 years. He wasn't GM until two years later. You can read about his business experience and football exec work prior to 2012, I've already posted a lot of it in this thread. Point is, he had a lot of experience that Manning doesn't.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Elway#Business_activities

I didn't realize he was twelve years removed from the game.  Time flies.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Buddy Lee said:

I didn't realize his dad worked for the Bengals. In what capacity?

 

As far as I'm concerned he could bring his crew along.

 

 

He's a scout, listed on their website as a personnel executive, along with their other two scouts. They run a lean operation, and the coaching staff does a lot of scouting also.

 

More about the Bengals methods and staff:

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2016/6/19/11970104/bengals-defensive-coordinator-opens-up-about-nfl-draft-strategy

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/8/2/3215585/for-the-bengals-scouting-never-stops

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2014/05/03/less-bengals-scout-dept/8669375/

[Andrew Luck fan club]

41 minutes ago, The Fish said:

We do? I'd bet the farm Irsay wants this to happen, if not now, then down the line. Do you know what Peyton wants to do? I don't. 

I'd bet the farm Irsay wants to do it too. But I don't think Peyton does. I don't know though, just my speculation. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Imagine if we hired Peyton for GM, hired Gruden for HC and brought Reggie Wayne in to help with our WR's. This city would go nuts! Gruden loves Peyton Manning, calls him the Sheriff, he loves Andrew Luck as well. He also has won a SB with Brad Johnson at QB which is on his resume so he's a proven winner. Imagine what he could do with Luck if Peyton is capable of building a great team. Reggie could come in and teach our WR's better route running as he was the master at that and he had some of the best hands of all-time. Route running has been a problem. Probably none of this will happen and who knows if it would work but if it did happen, the city of Indy would be hyped up!

[CoachLite]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Imagine if we hired Peyton for GM, hired Gruden for HC and brought Reggie Wayne in to help with our WR's. This city would go nuts! Gruden loves Peyton Manning, calls him the Sheriff, he loves Andrew Luck as well. He also has won a SB with Brad Johnson at QB which is on his resume so he's a proven winner. Imagine what he could do with Luck if Peyton is capable of building a great team. Reggie could come in and teach our WR's better route running as he was the master at that and he had some of the best hands of all-time. Route running has been a problem. Probably none of this will happen and who knows if it would work but if it did happen, the city of Indy would hyped up!

 

Now, you're just a tease ...

[#12.]

One thing is certain:  If you thought it was difficult criticizing Grigson at times on this forum, imagine attempting to criticize Peyton, God himself, after his first bad decision.  Hater, troll, communist.  lol  

[#12.]

30 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Imagine if we hired Peyton for GM, hired Gruden for HC and brought Reggie Wayne in to help with our WR's. This city would go nuts! Gruden loves Peyton Manning, calls him the Sheriff, he loves Andrew Luck as well. He also has won a SB with Brad Johnson at QB which is on his resume so he's a proven winner. Imagine what he could do with Luck if Peyton is capable of building a great team. Reggie could come in and teach our WR's better route running as he was the master at that and he had some of the best hands of all-time. Route running has been a problem. Probably none of this will happen and who knows if it would work but if it did happen, the city of Indy would be hyped up!

 

Who do you have at DC?

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

Who do you have at DC?

Not sure, I just thought the first 3 idea's sounded good