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15 hours ago, bravo4460 said:

Colts: Get eliminated from playoffs; Play like world beaters, Win out on the year, and move back 4 spots in the draft.

 

 

I understand you want to win every game and don't want to have a "losing culture" but it's the same story every year. Pagono and Grigson try and save their jobs the last 2 or 3 games and the Colts lose precious draft pick spots.

  I stopped reading after your first line; The Colts were in the playoffs for the first 3 years of Grigson/Pagano era. 

  I am amazed at how many Colts' fans are calling for Pagano and Grigson's jobs. They ignore any successes they've had, whether it be winning games or drafting decent players. Of course they have made mistakes but so have most, if not all of the GMs and coaches in the league. Not every draft is going to be 100%. As far as Pagano's "dumb decisions" what about Pete Carol's decision to pass in the SB, when he had Beast-mode and 1-1/2 yards to go for a victory? Belicheck's decision to go for it on 4th and 2 from his own 20 against the Colts? Andy Reid's horrible time-management and 14 years in Philly without a ring?

  They ignore the inordinate amount of injuries this year, or how many losses could have been wins, if it weren't for injuries or mental mistakes and poor execution.

   No matter what happens in these next two weeks, the Colts have shown glimpses of greatness. At very least, this year could be a year of growing in the right direction, learning from mistakes and developing depth. Good things are in store.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We actually do, the one thing Grigson has done well is keeping us way under the Salary Cap. We could easily sign 1 or 2 big time Free Agents in the off season.

We maybe spending cap on Doyle, Moncreif (early), Butler, maybe Walden?? and???

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1 hour ago, coltsfeva said:

  I stopped reading after your first line; The Colts were in the playoffs for the first 3 years of Grigson/Pagano era. 

  I am amazed at how many Colts' fans are calling for Pagano and Grigson's jobs. They ignore any successes they've had, whether it be winning games or drafting decent players. Of course they have made mistakes but so have most, if not all of the GMs and coaches in the league. Not every draft is going to be 100%. As far as Pagano's "dumb decisions" what about Pete Carol's decision to pass in the SB, when he had Beast-mode and 1-1/2 yards to go for a victory? Belicheck's decision to go for it on 4th and 2 from his own 20 against the Colts? Andy Reid's horrible time-management and 14 years in Philly without a ring?

  They ignore the inordinate amount of injuries this year, or how many losses could have been wins, if it weren't for injuries or mental mistakes and poor execution.

   No matter what happens in these next two weeks, the Colts have shown glimpses of greatness. At very least, this year could be a year of growing in the right direction, learning from mistakes and developing depth. Good things are in store.

 

 

 

 

Not sure why you quoted me if you only read the first line. Might as well keep me out of your post.

 

Anyway, Since your fully aboard the Pagano and Grigson train please tell me why the team has regressed so much after making the playoffs the first "3" years under (Arians)Pagano/Grigson. And please don't give me the Organization excuse of "the ball just hasn't bounced our way."

 

 

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18 hours ago, bravo4460 said:

Colts: Get eliminated from playoffs; Play like world beaters, Win out on the year, and move back 4 spots in the draft.

 

 

I understand you want to win every game and don't want to have a "losing culture" but it's the same story every year. Pagono and Grigson try and save their jobs the last 2 or 3 games and the Colts lose precious draft pick spots.

 

Maybe my inability to understand this is because I am not very good at math but by my calculations, this particular scenario in your head has only happened the last two of the 5 years under this particular Colts' regime.  That is 40% of Grigson's and Pagano's time in Indy and not "every year" as you suggest. 

 

I would argue to the end of my days that culture is far more valuable than picking 12th instead of 16th (or however it ends up).  

 

If you have frustration that they did not play like they did yesterday against Houston the week before I get it.  But let's not use some really fuzzy math and in my view faulty logic to make a misguided point.

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43 minutes ago, bravo4460 said:

 

 

Not sure why you quoted me if you only read the first line. Might as well keep me out of your post.

 

Anyway, Since your fully aboard the Pagano and Grigson train please tell me why the team has regressed so much after making the playoffs the first "3" years under (Arians)Pagano/Grigson. And please don't give me the Organization excuse of "the ball just hasn't bounced our way."

 

 

   I'm not so sure the STARTING roster has regressed.  I know the bottom line is you have to win, but given yesterday was the 35th  different combination on the offensive line, and that early in the season, the secondary was decimated, I'm not sure any coach or GM would have done better.

   The starter positions were filled with inexperienced rookies who made mistakes. They are learning from these mistakes and how they effect the success of the team.

    Same with Grigson and the coaching staff; they are in a process of getting better at drafting players and in game-planning. I saw some coaching yesterday (like going to the short passing game) that made me hopeful we'll see more of that in the future.

     I do apologize for my smart remark, I did read your post but was trying to make a point of what I believe to be a misconception among a lot of fans.

    No matter what our opinions are, we all want the Colts to get better and play up to their potential consistently.

 

    Getting better means reducing penalties, dropped passes and bad throws. No reason to think that couldn't happen with Pagano and Grigson.

   Getting better means getting healthy and staying healthy. Again, that could happen with Pagano/Grigson.

   Getting better also means adding the right pieces. Last year's draft was a pretty good draft, maybe Grigson (who has admitted he made mistakes in the draft and FA, is humble enough to admit that) is learning as well. Add some defensive starters this year and we'll see what happens.

   As far as Chuck Pagano: Has he made decisions he wishes he had back? Absolutely! What coach hasn't ?  But even if you take away the Bruce Arian year and add this year's record, he is still a winning coach with a pretty good record.

  Most importantly, the team is behind him and I believe that they believe Chuck is a good coach. 

  It stinks that the Colts most likely won't make the playoffs. But long-term, I see the arrow pointing up.

   

   

  

   

    

    

 

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One of the bigger differences I noticed this week was the offensive game planning.  We stuck by the running game, and didn't quit on it early.  also, we started with quick, short passes to the TE's on slant routes.  There was no time for the rush to get to Luck. This along with the running game slowed the front of Vikings enough that Luck could take a few down field shots; the run fake held the LB's, the front was slowed to give the OL  the chance to give Luck a pocket and the WR's used their speed to get free.  All in all a game plan we should have been using all year.  Not just now when we start 3 rookies, have a new RG and are trying to help the OL out.

 

Chud finally came thru......

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2 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

Maybe my inability to understand this is because I am not very good at math but by my calculations, this particular scenario in your head has only happened the last two of the 5 years under this particular Colts' regime.  That is 40% of Grigson's and Pagano's time in Indy and not "every year" as you suggest. 

 

I would argue to the end of my days that culture is far more valuable than picking 12th instead of 16th (or however it ends up).  

 

If you have frustration that they did not play like they did yesterday against Houston the week before I get it.  But let's not use some really fuzzy math and in my view faulty logic to make a misguided point.

You do know that 8 out or every 5 people can't do fractions......

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1 hour ago, ACanOfWOW said:

love this team. will support them through and through but the problem lies with chud's coordinating. i respect the heck out of the guy but philbin should be running the offense.

I like Chuds offense but I hate some of his game plans and adjustments.  Philbin would probably be a better game planner and thinker in these areas.  I'll give Chud another season though.   He should be here, I don't think anybody will be calling on him to be their head coach.

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2 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

   I'm not so sure the STARTING roster has regressed.  I know the bottom line is you have to win, but given yesterday was the 35th  different combination on the offensive line, and that early in the season, the secondary was decimated, I'm not sure any coach or GM would have done better.

   The starter positions were filled with inexperienced rookies who made mistakes. They are learning from these mistakes and how they effect the success of the team.

    Same with Grigson and the coaching staff; they are in a process of getting better at drafting players and in game-planning. I saw some coaching yesterday (like going to the short passing game) that made me hopeful we'll see more of that in the future.

     I do apologize for my smart remark, I did read your post but was trying to make a point of what I believe to be a misconception among a lot of fans.

    No matter what our opinions are, we all want the Colts to get better and play up to their potential consistently.

 

    Getting better means reducing penalties, dropped passes and bad throws. No reason to think that couldn't happen with Pagano and Grigson.

   Getting better means getting healthy and staying healthy. Again, that could happen with Pagano/Grigson.

   Getting better also means adding the right pieces. Last year's draft was a pretty good draft, maybe Grigson (who has admitted he made mistakes in the draft and FA, is humble enough to admit that) is learning as well. Add some defensive starters this year and we'll see what happens.

   As far as Chuck Pagano: Has he made decisions he wishes he had back? Absolutely! What coach hasn't ?  But even if you take away the Bruce Arian year and add this year's record, he is still a winning coach with a pretty good record.

  Most importantly, the team is behind him and I believe that they believe Chuck is a good coach.

  It stinks that the Colts most likely won't make the playoffs. But long-term, I see the arrow pointing up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of fans on here want to chase rainbows like the Browns and Bills do every other year. If we draft (or get via free agency) a young quality  RB and concentrate the rest of Free agency and draft on defensive needs we will be just fine.   Like you said,... the arrow is pointing up.

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1 hour ago, ACanOfWOW said:

love this team. will support them through and through but the problem lies with chud's coordinating. i respect the heck out of the guy but philbin should be running the offense.

I think with a weak pass protecting line we should have had many more game plans that fit what we did against Minnesota.   We are not that bad at running the football when we make our minds up to be consistent with it.

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45 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

You are a smart one if you think he used it right the last time 

 

Not really even close to what I was suggesting.  Nice try though.  

 

You don't like Grigson and see him as incompetent in his job.  I get it as there is some evidence to suggest that.  But the notion that because he did not handle the last time they had money to spend very well means he is destined to that same fate this time around is a logic fail.

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1 minute ago, jskinnz said:

 

Not really even close to what I was suggesting.  Nice try though.  

 

You don't like Grigson and see him as incompetent in his job.  I get it as there is some evidence to suggest that.  But the notion that because he did not handle the last time they had money to spend very well means he is destined to that same fate this time around is a logic fail.

Like, he may even learn from his mistakes? Mmmm....

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12 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Not really even close to what I was suggesting.  Nice try though.  

 

You don't like Grigson and see him as incompetent in his job.  I get it as there is some evidence to suggest that.  But the notion that because he did not handle the last time they had money to spend very well means he is destined to that same fate this time around is a logic fail.

There is more evidence to suggest he will fail then there is to suggest he will succeed 

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3 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

We actually do but if we keep grigson they will take the same approach as last offseason and not do anything with it.

 

well this coming offseason they won't have Luck's mega contract to work out so...no, you are wrong.

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6 hours ago, bravo4460 said:

 

 

Not sure why you quoted me if you only read the first line. Might as well keep me out of your post.

 

Anyway, Since your fully aboard the Pagano and Grigson train please tell me why the team has regressed so much after making the playoffs the first "3" years under (Arians)Pagano/Grigson. And please don't give me the Organization excuse of "the ball just hasn't bounced our way."

 

 

 

Well let's see, if you don't know why the team regressed last year, then you have been paying zero attention.

 

as for this year, how about:

 

-almost entirely new offensive coaching staff

-entirely new defensive coaching staff

-new OL blocking scheme

-new offensive system most likely with all new terminology

-4 rookies added to OL unit

-constant injuries, in particular to OL and secondary

 

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1 hour ago, krunk said:

I like Chuds offense but I hate some of his game plans and adjustments.  Philbin would probably be a better game planner and thinker in these areas.  I'll give Chud another season though.   He should be here, I don't think anybody will be calling on him to be their head coach.

 

 Gee, i thought all of the position coaches contribute to the game plan, Especially the line coach. Hmmm!
 Chud is fine. He needs better line play the Most.
  Not a word yet on this thread about Thornton and Clark blocking pretty well in the run game, and ok pass blocking too.
  I thought all of our Kids were flying around and making some plays. Kudos to those UDFA Rookies, the drafted Rookies, and our 2nd year players.  :applause:

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7 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

  I stopped reading after your first line; The Colts were in the playoffs for the first 3 years of Grigson/Pagano era. 

  I am amazed at how many Colts' fans are calling for Pagano and Grigson's jobs. They ignore any successes they've had, whether it be winning games or drafting decent players. Of course they have made mistakes but so have most, if not all of the GMs and coaches in the league. Not every draft is going to be 100%. As far as Pagano's "dumb decisions" what about Pete Carol's decision to pass in the SB, when he had Beast-mode and 1-1/2 yards to go for a victory? Belicheck's decision to go for it on 4th and 2 from his own 20 against the Colts? Andy Reid's horrible time-management and 14 years in Philly without a ring?

  They ignore the inordinate amount of injuries this year, or how many losses could have been wins, if it weren't for injuries or mental mistakes and poor execution.

   No matter what happens in these next two weeks, the Colts have shown glimpses of greatness. At very least, this year could be a year of growing in the right direction, learning from mistakes and developing depth. Good things are in store.

 

 

So you feel the Colts have gotten better each year under Grigson and Pagano?

I think just the opposite.   Don't let the Vikings game make you forget about the Texans games.  

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58 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Gee, i thought all of the position coaches contribute to the game plan, Especially the line coach. Hmmm!
 Chud is fine. He needs better line play the Most.
  Not a word yet on this thread about Thornton and Clark blocking pretty well in the run game, and ok pass blocking too.
  I thought all of our Kids were flying around and making some plays. Kudos to those UDFA Rookies, the drafted Rookies, and our 2nd year players.  :applause:

Who is Thornton?

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19 hours ago, AZColt11 said:

Nope.  They have to win next week, Texans and Titans both lose.  Then in the final week, they have to win again and hope the Titans find a way to beat the Texans = Colts win division.  However, if just ONE of those things don't happen it's over.  And I don't think all of that will go down.  Why? Because, like it or not, teams like Cincy that are eliminated KNOW that draft position is on the line and aren't going to help you out by winning in the end.  They'll make it look good, but I doubt they really want to screw up their draft position.

 

I just see this team being so up and down and playing so small in BIG moments like last week.  To me that is coaching, game-planning, all that and it falls on Chuck in the end.  I just hope Irsay sees that and sticks to the "big picture" and doesn't get infatuated with these last few weeks.  And if Pags and Grigs are indeed tied at the hip as advertised.......

So teams that have nothing to play for never win against teams that do? Interesting. 

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12 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

   I'm not so sure the STARTING roster has regressed.  I know the bottom line is you have to win, but given yesterday was the 35th  different combination on the offensive line, and that early in the season, the secondary was decimated, I'm not sure any coach or GM would have done better.

   The starter positions were filled with inexperienced rookies who made mistakes. They are learning from these mistakes and how they effect the success of the team.

    Same with Grigson and the coaching staff; they are in a process of getting better at drafting players and in game-planning. I saw some coaching yesterday (like going to the short passing game) that made me hopeful we'll see more of that in the future.

     I do apologize for my smart remark, I did read your post but was trying to make a point of what I believe to be a misconception among a lot of fans.

    No matter what our opinions are, we all want the Colts to get better and play up to their potential consistently.

 

    Getting better means reducing penalties, dropped passes and bad throws. No reason to think that couldn't happen with Pagano and Grigson.

   Getting better means getting healthy and staying healthy. Again, that could happen with Pagano/Grigson.

   Getting better also means adding the right pieces. Last year's draft was a pretty good draft, maybe Grigson (who has admitted he made mistakes in the draft and FA, is humble enough to admit that) is learning as well. Add some defensive starters this year and we'll see what happens.

   As far as Chuck Pagano: Has he made decisions he wishes he had back? Absolutely! What coach hasn't ?  But even if you take away the Bruce Arian year and add this year's record, he is still a winning coach with a pretty good record.

  Most importantly, the team is behind him and I believe that they believe Chuck is a good coach. 

  It stinks that the Colts most likely won't make the playoffs. But long-term, I see the arrow pointing up.

   

   

  

   

    

    

 

 

Good post. No problem. Yes everyone wants the Colts to improve. Obviously there are many ways people believe this can happen. 

 

Im not saying Pagono can't coach, because he can. There are just a lot of obvious problems with this team that didn't exist 2 years ago. Some might be skill, other might be attitude. Those are both reletively things that the GM/Coach can control. Things they can't are Injuries and other things. (Although the Colts have been near the top of the league in injuries for 3 or 4 years now I believe?)

 

The absolute biggest issue I personally have with the Colts is their inability to play hard every game. 4 or 5 games this season there has been obvious points where there was no passion or intensity to the entire teams game. If your not that good skill wise atleast act like give a darn. This Colts team showed what they could do last week but that isn't good enough. They had 2 SOLID chances to put the Texans away and gave up. That in my mind is the coach or front office not getting to the players. The Front office is not making a statement as let's say the (Patriots) that if your not going to play hard and to the best of your ability, you won't play here. To me that is all coaching.

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13 hours ago, Old Colt said:

One of the bigger differences I noticed this week was the offensive game planning.  We stuck by the running game, and didn't quit on it early.  also, we started with quick, short passes to the TE's on slant routes.  There was no time for the rush to get to Luck. This along with the running game slowed the front of Vikings enough that Luck could take a few down field shots; the run fake held the LB's, the front was slowed to give the OL  the chance to give Luck a pocket and the WR's used their speed to get free.

 

 

This time, the advance scout team gave the OC good infor for creating a good scheme/game plan.  And the players were able to execute it well.

 

13 hours ago, Old Colt said:

 

 All in all a game plan we should have been using all year.  

 

Many of the items used vs. Minn wont work against others... like say.. Carolina.  Vikings corners are good, and so is their slot CB.  So, to keep their slot CB on the pine, use some 3 TE sets, and spread them out.  That way you make players like Chad Greenway cover.  and Swoope and Doyle get decent yards in their catches. Or target the backup safety.

 

Try doing that against Luke Kuechley, for instance...  uh uh, ain't happening.  Each opponent needs their own game plan and scheme to overcome them. And players still have to execute it for it to work.

 

It would be interesting to find out how many yards corners Rhodes and Newman gave up vs the safeties and linebackers of the Vikings.

 

13 hours ago, Old Colt said:

 

Not just now when we start 3 rookies, have a new RG and are trying to help the OL out.

 

Chud finally came thru......

 

It's more than Chud, but we'll go ahead give him the bulk of credit since he is the driver of that offensive bus.

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On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 2:00 PM, Jason_S said:

 

well this coming offseason they won't have Luck's mega contract to work out so...no, you are wrong.

How am I wrong when sure we don't have to resign luck but he will do that build through the draft thing again and not sign any free agents that are actually going to improve this team.

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24 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

How am I wrong when sure we don't have to resign luck but he will do that build through the draft thing again and not sign any free agents that are actually going to improve this team.

 

Thank you Miss Cleo.  They said on more than one occasion that the reason for the extreme lack of activity in free agency was due to the contract they were working on with Luck.  At the time, they had no idea how the payouts would be structured or anything like that so they couldn't do any big spending without taking a chance that it may interfere with re-signing Luck, which we all know was the #1 priority this past offseason.

 

And yes, they've talked about building more through the draft, but also supplementing that with key and impactful free agent acquisitions.  They have never once said they would stay out of free agency completely.

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The Colts aren't motivated enough. It has little to do with Xs n Os, talent (although they did lose that first Texans game and Steelers game because of backwards playcalling) etc. They can play motivated football...just not 16 weeks out of a season apparently. And I'm sure they'll play motivated football for the next 2 weeks, and they'll beat the Raiders if they do imo but...yeah.

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On 12/19/2016 at 6:35 AM, coltsfeva said:

  I stopped reading after your first line; The Colts were in the playoffs for the first 3 years of Grigson/Pagano era. 

  I am amazed at how many Colts' fans are calling for Pagano and Grigson's jobs. They ignore any successes they've had, whether it be winning games or drafting decent players. Of course they have made mistakes but so have most, if not all of the GMs and coaches in the league. Not every draft is going to be 100%. As far as Pagano's "dumb decisions" what about Pete Carol's decision to pass in the SB, when he had Beast-mode and 1-1/2 yards to go for a victory? Belicheck's decision to go for it on 4th and 2 from his own 20 against the Colts? Andy Reid's horrible time-management and 14 years in Philly without a ring?

  They ignore the inordinate amount of injuries this year, or how many losses could have been wins, if it weren't for injuries or mental mistakes and poor execution.

   No matter what happens in these next two weeks, the Colts have shown glimpses of greatness. At very least, this year could be a year of growing in the right direction, learning from mistakes and developing depth. Good things are in store.

 

 

 

 

I agree to a degree. But to be elite you need a coaching staff that can bring the best out of players. Put players in a position to beat their man. As far as I have seen, the offense is always inconsistent. Slow starts have been a problem for all of paganos 5 years (colts fans wanted to call Luck the come back kid for a reason). Not just the last two. I have 10 times more patience for a new GM than I do for a HC to become better over time. Idk why pagano has to be tighed at the hip of grigson. Can't grigson make the call on who the HC is? As far as I knew bill polian had a few HCs under him in his era in Indy. 

 

Why do both need to go? I say grigson has shown signs of life and an ability to learn from his mistakes. Pagano? Not so much. And I am not one of the people who believe this team doesn't have that much talent. They are NFL players and to act like our team has less talent by much of any margin is a stretch. We have seen what these guys can do properly motivated. They just aren't properly motivated. And therein lies the problem of inconsistency. 

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15 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

Thank you Miss Cleo.  They said on more than one occasion that the reason for the extreme lack of activity in free agency was due to the contract they were working on with Luck.  At the time, they had no idea how the payouts would be structured or anything like that so they couldn't do any big spending without taking a chance that it may interfere with re-signing Luck, which we all know was the #1 priority this past offseason.

 

And yes, they've talked about building more through the draft, but also supplementing that with key and impactful free agent acquisitions.  They have never once said they would stay out of free agency completely.

Well even with lucks contract as big as it is they are set to have a ton of room they better take advantage of it.

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