Linebackers

[RockThatBlue]

Why does this group stink so bad? Coaching or just bad players or a mix of both?

[Superman]

12 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Why does this group stink so bad? Coaching or just bad players or a mix of both?

 

Sadly, I think a mix of both. I think they're slow and can't cover, for starters. D'Qwell isn't attacking the run and beating blockers at the point of attack like he did last year, and his blown lane led to the big run last week.

 

On the other hand, I think the coaches are deploying them poorly, and have thought that for three years now. They abandon the flats frequently, then try to charge the ball carrier and take poor angles or get beat to the corner. They get crossed up in the middle (the way they covered the middle against the Chargers was good, but they still gave up plays). 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Both.

A serious lack of talent( thanks grriggs) and being dumbned down by our coaching staff(thanks pagano).

[BOTT]

Bad players

[NewColtsFan]

 

We've really created a mess across the board here....

 

Mathis, DQJ and Walden are all 30 or older....   Mathis is much older....    Cole,. perhaps the first back-up is in his 30's....        That's 4 guys, who, at the start of the year were in their 30's.

 

The only person who could ever be truly happy about that is the late George Allen, who once coached a group of players so old that they were labeled the "Over the Hill Gang"....

 

We also screwed up on Nate Irvin and Sio Moore.     Those two have been on the roster for years and we just didn't get all that much on them.

 

Then, at age 30,  we drew a line in the sand with Jerrell Freeman.

 

What a spectacular mess.

 

That's why in next year's draft I've got us using 3 of our first 5 picks on linebackers.     We need them desperately.

 

And I think we'll be back in 18 taking more LB's....

 

We've got some serous building to do in that area of the defense.    Frankly, in EVERY area of the defense.

 

[zibby43]

We have linebackers?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LockeDown]

Colts Scout says "Linebackers?  Oh, I thought you wanted the back of the line". 

[Defjamz26]

Bad and Old players. I wouldn't blame the coaching yet since our LB coach and DC (formerly a LB coach) are in their first year and have nothing to work with.

 

Lets just hope In 2017 the Colts hit the reset button and move on from every LB not named Morrison and draft LBs like they did OL in the last draft.

[Gavin]

21 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Bad and Old players. I wouldn't blame the coaching yet since our LB coach and DC (formerly a LB coach) are in their first year and have nothing to work with.

 

Lets just hope In 2017 the Colts hit the reset button and move on from every LB not named Morrison and draft LBs like they did OL in the last draft.

Preferably ones that are cover ILB and LB's that have speed at every LB spot.

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, Gavin said:

Preferably ones that are cover ILB and LB's that have speed at every LB spot.

This. We don't need any LBs in the mold of D'Qwell Jackson. We need guys with the traits of Keuchly, Wagner, Collins, etc...

[CanuckColtsFan]

Dwight is older than Mathis and is still seeing some production. I'm holding out hope he can still produce. Freeney is a different playing style and has a bit more bull rush, a man can hope though.

[oldunclemark]

Robert Mathis isn't a linebacker....

....we noed to play 5 DBs most of the time but we're short on DBs..

 

Morrison will be a good player

 

[BOTT]

23 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Robert Mathis isn't a linebacker....

....we noed to play 5 DBs most of the time but we're short on DBs..

 

Morrison will be a good player

 

Morrison is a young version of an old DQ....with severe arthritis.

[OLD FAN MAN]

10 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

Both.

A serious lack of talent( thanks grriggs) and being dumbned down by our coaching staff(thanks pagano).

I concur

[OLD FAN MAN]

6 hours ago, Gavin said:

Preferably ones that are cover ILB and LB's that have speed at every LB spot.

I agree

[OLD FAN MAN]

9 hours ago, BOTT said:

Bad players

I concur

[throwing BBZ]

3 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Morrison is a young version of an old DQ....with severe arthritis.

 

 If they think using a pick on a Morrison is a good idea... Good grief! Why believe they can fix this?
 The ILB from Stanford that Green Bay took 6 spots after him is starting and killing it so far.  lol
  Chuckie is the King of Loyalty to his Vet players. Come ___ or a bad D.
  
 The selection of Martinez by the Packers addressed their perceived need at linebacker, adding a player who has been characterized as "an athletic, strong linebacker" who is able to play in both 3–4 and 4–3 defensive schemes and can drop back in coverage. He ran a 4.71. 
 

[OLD FAN MAN]

22 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 If they think using a pick on a Morrison is a good idea... Good grief! Why believe they can fix this?
 The ILB from Stanford that Green Bay took 6 spots after him is starting and killing it so far.  lol
  Chuckie is the King of Loyalty to his Vet players. Come ___ or a bad D.
  
 The selection of Martinez by the Packers addressed their perceived need at linebacker, adding a player who has been characterized as "an athletic, strong linebacker" who is able to play in both 3–4 and 4–3 defensive schemes and can drop back in coverage. He ran a 4.71. 
 

I agree, the colts picks need to be better, someone is a poor judge of talent

[ColtfreakDVA]

I imagine that the LBs were not priority with all the other gaping holes and the pressure to sure up Luck's protection.  Perhaps they thought they could cover this area with secondary and hopes that a pass rush would develop.  Art Jones suspension probably made this worse after the fact as well as the start of the year secondary injuries and Mathis slump.  On paper it didnt look as glaring until these things happened IMO

 

There is always a weakeness on a team that cant be addressed each year and has to be worked around.

 

Hopefully the Oline solidifies by end of year and Colts can focus on finally building the monster on D side going forward.  If they dont then it is going to be a long frustrating 2 to 3 years.

 

[Gavin]

Actually Jake Ryan has been by far the Packers best all around ILB. Blake Martinez has been horrible in coverage in 63 coverage snaps

[ClaytonColt]

Apart from Werner when was that last time we drafted a linebacker in the first 4 rounds? 

 

That probably answers why were old and poor at the position.

[throwing BBZ]

18 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Actually Jake Ryan has been by far the Packers best all around ILB. Blake Martinez has been horrible in coverage in 63 coverage snaps

 

 I noticed they took Martinez out on a number of passing downs last game.
 He has been Great so far stopping the run. And has the foot speed to develop his coverage skills.
  I gotta have serious doubts about Morrisons ability to become a coverage guy. lol

[Gavin]

14 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 I noticed they took Martinez out on a number of passing downs last game.
 He has been Great so far stopping the run. And has the foot speed to develop his coverage skills.
  I gotta have serious doubts about Morrisons ability to become a coverage guy. lol

If his instincts and play in coverage improve he has a shot. However I'm not counting on that to happen

[jbaron04]

No athletes at that position, they are slow, they over shoot gaps and take bad angles on tackles. They refuse to pop and wrap leading to broken and/or missed tackles. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 I noticed they took Martinez out on a number of passing downs last game.
 He has been Great so far stopping the run. And has the foot speed to develop his coverage skills.
  I gotta have serious doubts about Morrisons ability to become a coverage guy. lol

I agree

[GoBlue12]

12 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Bad and Old players. I wouldn't blame the coaching yet since our LB coach and DC (formerly a LB coach) are in their first year and have nothing to work with.

 

Lets just hope In 2017 the Colts hit the reset button and move on from every LB not named Morrison and draft LBs like they did OL in the last draft.

I wouldn't leave Morrison out of the jettison category. He is a thumper but can't cover at all.

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, GoBlue12 said:

I wouldn't leave Morrison out of the jettison category. He is a thumper but can't cover at all.

Yeah I know. But he's young and at least deserves a chance. Plus we can't go into 2017 with zero LBs. Remember that Cole, Mathis,  Jackson, Walden, and Mcnary could all possibly be gone.

[colts52761]

go back to a 4-3 defense and just find fast linebackers late in the draft.

[NewColtsFan]

11 hours ago, Gavin said:

If his instincts and play in coverage improve he has a shot. However I'm not counting on that to happen

 

OK......

 

So, you're on record as saying exactly what about Morrison?

 

That he has a less than 50-50 shot at being on the team in 2017?

 

A less than 50-50 shot at being on the team in 2018?

 

When do the Colts write hm off and cut him?

 

[Gavin]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK......

 

So, you're on record as saying exactly what about Morrison?

 

That he has a less than 50-50 shot at being on the team in 2017?

 

A less than 50-50 shot at being on the team in 2018?

 

When do the Colts write hm off and cut him?

 

Hard to tell. Werner lasted 3 years. D'Joun Smith lasted 1 year. A 5th round pick in Josh Chapman who was only available for 20 on average snaps a game and wasn't good lasted 3 years on the team. I wouldn't have drafted him to begin with but that's besides the point...Morrison I mean. If he improves in coverage he should stick. If he doesn't improve in coverage and we find better in the draft or FA in coverage over the next 3-4 years then he becomes expendable to me. Until then he is right where he belongs as a back up getting snaps here and their. I'm just big on coverage ILB's. If you cant cover at a decent level then you cant play for me. Pagano and Grigson disagree. Unfortunately that's 1 reason why we are in the mess we are in

[ztboiler]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK......

 

So, you're on record as saying exactly what about Morrison?

 

That he has a less than 50-50 shot at being on the team in 2017?

 

A less than 50-50 shot at being on the team in 2018?

 

When do the Colts write hm off and cut him?

 

Morrison has to be able to defend the run outside the tackles and tackle dump  or swing passes in space before coverage matters even a little.  He is a long way from any of that.  You can't even play 2 downs until you check those boxes....and that's all we really need him to be at the Mike in addition to physical between the tackles.

[ztboiler]

On 10/15/2016 at 3:37 AM, NewColtsFan said:

 

We've really created a mess across the board here....

 

We also screwed up on Nate Irvin and Sio Moore.     Those two have been on the roster for years and we just didn't get all that much

 

It's odd that Moore and Irvin were reasonably productive young NFL linebackers before they arrived in Indy....and they weren't here for years taking up space.  They were both here just over a year.

[jameszeigler834]

On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 5:55 AM, Defjamz26 said:

Bad and Old players. I wouldn't blame the coaching yet since our LB coach and DC (formerly a LB coach) are in their first year and have nothing to work with.

 

Lets just hope In 2017 the Colts hit the reset button and move on from every LB not named Morrison and draft LBs like they did OL in the last draft.

I would keep Jackson because he can still play at a high level you don't get rid of players like that even if we restructure his deal for him o be a backup role kind of player for 1 year it would be better than just cutting him.

[husker61]

i have been talking about not using high picks on linebackers for years! we get players that are too slow or too small from the draft, or vets not wanted by other teams on the downside.

[jseg18]

i have been talking about not using high picks on linebackers for years! we get players that are too slow or too small from the draft, or vets not wanted by other teams on the downside.

We can do what the Atlanta Falcons did to get Julio Jones, but he better be the next Luke Keuckly. At worst the next CJ Mosley.

*

[BOTT]

4 minutes ago, jseg18 said:

We can do what the Atlanta Falcons did to get Julio Jones, but he better be the next Luke Keuckly. At worst the next CJ Mosley.

*

That would be dumb

[life long]

The julio jones comment makes no sense, once you mentioned linebackers. At least to me.

[coltsfanatic24]

It's the players and lack of athleticism at the position. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, ztboiler said:

It's odd that Moore and Irvin were reasonably productive young NFL linebackers before they arrived in Indy....and they weren't here for years taking up space.  They were both here just over a year.

 

One, if memory serves correctly,  they weren't healthy.

 

Two,  we made commitments to them that impacted our roster.

 

So, this off-season we didn't do much of anything in the LB group, because we expected Irving and Moore to be there.      Irving got got during Pre-season and Moore gets cut after the season starts. 

 

To me,  that's either some poor player evaluation or our string of bad luck for a large number of players continues....      I don't think either is a very good choice.

I'm not saying we should've kept either,  but losing BOTH as we did is -- in part -- why our defense is where it is.

 

[ztboiler]

54 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

One, if memory serves correctly,  they weren't healthy.

 

Two,  we made commitments to them that impacted our roster.

 

So, this off-season we didn't do much of anything in the LB group, because we expected Irving and Moore to be there.      Irving got got during Pre-season and Moore gets cut after the season starts. 

 

To me,  that's either some poor player evaluation or our string of bad luck for a large number of players continues....      I don't think either is a very good choice.

I'm not saying we should've kept either,  but losing BOTH as we did is -- in part -- why our defense is where it is.

 

All true...but you have to agree that it's odd that both were productive before they became Colts and both were playing and deemed healthy at time of cuts.

 

Those two are having exactly the impact, negatively, on our D as you described - but they were known entities with an established body of work so it's hard to blame the player evaluations when they left healthy.