Was Luck Pushed In To "Greatness"

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

 Yes Manning did have 1 season in his early years comparable to Luck but Luck was consistent without the RB help .

Y  Luck had a lot of pressure placed on him to perform at a high level from day 1 we fans & the media  have held him to a higher level  than we ever did with 18 ..

 

I had forgotten to quote the above post in my reply thank you for your input 18 did not reach his first SB in his first 4 years of being a Colt & he may have won a second SB & QB he would not have if it were not for the Bronco Defense his accomplishment last season was every bit as great as Ravens QB Trent Dilfer .

It took Peyton 9 seasons to get to and win a SB, so people just need to have patience with Luck. I gave CF a like because I don't think he will ever be Peyton but having said that I think he has been better than Peyton in his 5 seasons so far. Once Peyton hit season 6 he just had the 'IT' factor after that, hopefully Luck gets that as he enters his prime.

[aaron11]

On 9/25/2016 at 7:15 AM, WoolMagnet said:

What is elite?

dan Marino with #s and no rings? 

Russel Wilson with no #s but a defense?

trent differ with a ring?

aaron Rogers isn't playing any better than luck.  Is he elite?

i see Andrew as an above average QB who, if given the tools, can get you there with a little luck. ( no pun intended)

i firmly believe he started last year with injuries (I think shoulder in buff game).  Who knows, but it was obvious he wasn't 100%.  The interceptions didn't bother me so much.  He'd improve on that.  My gut says he may not be 100% now.

but if I'm Irsay, I don't know that I'd trade him for any other QB, all things considered.  I expect him to have a long, productive career.

 

and I can think of many so-called elite QBs that couldn't get a "good team" a trophy.  However I can't think of a SINGLE QB that got a bad team to a trophy.

not even Peyton.

old news now, but i think he might have first injured his shoulder in the preseason against the Bengals when he made that ridiculous tackle on a linebacker

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

old news now, but i think he might have first injured his shoulder in the preseason against the Bengals when he made that ridiculous tackle on a linebacker

I think he got injured against Buffalo but kept it secret because he wanted to play. He got mauled against them and got up slow several times after being sacked. It's all opinion and not fact but I don't think he was right in that game. Once you get injured you start compensating for it and get other injuries because of trying to protect that injury. Then multiple injuries happen which did against Tennessee. He wasn't healthy against Denver either IMO and then things really got worse.

[Gavin]

Truth is between Ryan Grigson and Jim Irsay expectations and trying to bring in veteran after veteran not only was Luck pushed but the entire team was pushed. You don't bring in as many vets as we have if your not in win now mode.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

7 minutes ago, CF4L said:

 

Lacking context? He had a run game with Ballard the rookie season but he was made of glass sadly. Manning played in the AFC East where Marino and Kelly were still the QBs Luck barely had much to deal with in the lowly AFC South.

 

Manning got to an SB will Luck? 

 

That's what you should be asking Jimbo complained about only 1 SB there's a strong possibility we won't get that at all with Luck with the team currently assembled.

 

Manning only had two bad years here as a Colt. Only started 0-2 once in his career. He took us to the playoffs every other year but those.

 

Regardless Manning also had a better GM and coach and lower expectations because he only replaced Jim Harbaugh.

 

Luck is replacing a legend especially one who ended up having a decent stint with the Broncos and ended his career with the SB victory.

 

Luck is very good but if you're going to say he's Manning's equal or better he would be able to carry the franchise like he did. He can't at least at this current state.

 

 

 

 Ballard also a rookie does not compare with Faulk first year & then Edge .

 

Manning got to a SB in the 2006 season 8 years into his career .

 

Currently assembled Luck does not have Addai or a good offensive line both 18 had defense on that team was ranked 32 for Manning , On that defense the Eraser Mathis & Freeney in there prime All Luck has is Old dude Mathis who is not a contributor like he was for Manning .

 

Luck in his short 4 years has 3 great seasons better than Manning in the same time frame .

 

And has overcome the 0-2 starts once again with a lot less of a supporting cast around him .

 

So you agree expectations for Luck are much greater than was for Manning .  And you only go on to prove my point the GM & coach in your own words were better than what Luck has had , Once again Luck has overcome alot to do even better than 18 at this point in his career ,

 

Trent Dilfer & Peyton Manning both received rings because of a great defense as game managers they did just good enough to win without there defense they would not have even been in the SB based on what they actually accomplished in those seasons .

 

Thats exactly what I'm saying I'm happy to see your picking up what I'm putting down .At this point in Lucks career compared to Manning there not equals at all Luck over 4 seasons was better & time will tell just how much as his career progresses & not to mention the team around him gets better .

 

Manning had a great coach Gm a running game & a defense that could get to the QB give that to Luck & watch the legend grow .

Like I said its all about context .

[southwest1]

On September 25, 2016 at 7:56 PM, Malakai432 said:

I don't even think Luck is really playing bad, it just seems like we continue to see the same mistakes which is what is frustrating. 

 

I get what you're saying from a turnover perspective M-432 & I don't disagree. Now, Joe Philbin's improved pocket helps along with vertical passing on 1st down more frequently in games has been a nice change of pace too. It wasn't until Shannon Sharpe said this on FS1 "Skip & Shannon" today about Eli Manning that it clicked for me. "It's not that a QB throws picks; it's when you throw them that it matters." 

 

The same could be said for Andrew. I get that our running game is still being fine-tuned & I like what Chud is doing spreading the ball around. It's like Pauley who tells Rocky Balboa to "hit the 1 in the middle." In other words, try to turn the ball over in the 1st Qtr. as opposed to the 4th Qtr. Chewy. Just kidding! 

 

I know; I know. Andrew can only do so much by himself. A w is a w against the Bolts & I'll take it. 

[OffensivelyPC]

It's amazing to me that we all keep coming back and having the same conversations week in and week out for 4 going on 5 years.

[NewColtsFan]

On 9/25/2016 at 3:02 PM, gacoop1 said:

$141 million dollar bust!

 

I just checked your profile....    and I see you've been a member for nearly 3 years,  though you don't post very often.

 

And now I see why.........      Oh, Dear God!

 

I'm not sure you know how a message board works?      When you write something and then post,  other people can read it.       And you just called Andrew Luck a $141 Million dollar bust.

 

If you want people to NOT take you seriously,   I think you just found a perfect formula!

 

 

[southwest1]

1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

It's amazing to me that we all keep coming back and having the same conversations week in and week out for 4 going on 5 years.

It is kind of hilarious how so many threads start with either fire Grigs, fire Pags, & Andrew is not living up to his 1st round expectations quickly enough. 

 

I go thru my frustrations periodically too with picks, but I can tell Chud is encouraging Luck to throw the ball away on bad plays more often now & that sometimes, tipped football interceptions just happen in bang bang plays. Luck is showing signs of improvement here gradually. 

[southwest1]

3 hours ago, aaron11 said:

old news now, but i think he might have first injured his shoulder in the preseason against the Bengals when he made that ridiculous tackle on a linebacker

This always troubles me too aa11. Don't tackle the safety, DB, or LB who gets a pick 6. Let it go & wait for the D to get him the ball back. 

 

Lightly stroll after it a few steps for a good showing if you want Chewy, but that's it please. More of a polite, stern suggestion than a glaring fatal flaw actually. 

 

Think of a pick like protecting the President as a secret service agent rather than going after the shooter or bad guy Andrew. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

On 9/25/2016 at 0:33 PM, Gavin said:

Truth is the whole story wasn't being told or was but in smaller amounts and not on tv. While most of the sports media was selling you on him being the best QB prospect since John Elway what they did not sell you much is "There are times when Luck second-guessed passes and simply didn't see a breaking corner coming from another zone, such as the play that almost got Stanford beat toward the end of a high-energy USC game" and that's because fans in general do not want to hear that and that doesn't sell to an audience. Even top prospects are not finished products and Luck wasn't finished by any stretch of the imagination either. Physically he was a great prospect and mentally he was ahead of many prospects at his position but he still had a lot to learn.

 

-He is still learning to pick up some blitzes

-He is still sticking in the pocket a bit to long on some plays where guys are not getting open

-He is still learning to just let the ball go and trust his reads at times. He has double pumped sometimes in the first 2 games. however when you have wr's that don't routinely get out of there breaks quickly or know how to be deceptive or sharp in there routes and cuts then your going to hesitate and double pump on your throws at times

 

Luck has his faults. Colts brass has found every conceivable way however to leave those faults exposed or show they don't know how to properly build a roster around Luck.

 

 

 

 

 

Luck does have his faults. But playing at Stanford with 3 TE & 2 FB sets didn't help him. It stunted his progression at reading defenses and the Colts hav'nt  helped him much either.

[southwest1]

On September 25, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Gavin said:

Truth is the whole story wasn't being told or was but in smaller amounts and not on tv. While most of the sports media was selling you on him being the best QB prospect since John Elway what they did not sell you much is "There are times when Luck second-guessed passes and simply didn't see a breaking corner coming from another zone, such as the play that almost got Stanford beat toward the end of a high-energy USC game" and that's because fans in general do not want to hear that and that doesn't sell to an audience. Even top prospects are not finished products and Luck wasn't finished by any stretch of the imagination either. Physically he was a great prospect and mentally he was ahead of many prospects at his position but he still had a lot to learn.

 

-He is still learning to pick up some blitzes

-He is still sticking in the pocket a bit to long on some plays where guys are not getting open

-He is still learning to just let the ball go and trust his reads at times. He has double pumped sometimes in the first 2 games. however when you have wr's that don't routinely get out of there breaks quickly or know how to be deceptive or sharp in there routes and cuts then your going to hesitate and double pump on your throws at times

 

Luck has his faults. Colts brass has found every conceivable way however to leave those faults exposed or show they don't know how to properly build a roster around Luck.

 

 

 

 

That is an interesting point Gavin. His 1st 3 yrs Luck had to scrabble because he couldn't trust the the pocket would remain intact & now Andrew is learning to stay there if his line allows it. So, it begs the question: What does he trust more? His feet or his arm? Old habits are hard to break. 

 

Nice entry BTW. 

 

Also, does he anticipate throws or is he waiting for guys to get open & they are failing to get any separation from defenders? All valid points Gavin. I think Pags & Chud want him to be a pocket passer but they know our line is a work in progress as well. So, they can't crucify him for moving when he has no other option available. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

If we would just run Spider Y Banana more we would never lose.

[southwest1]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If would just run Spider Y Banana more we would never lose.

 Jon Gruden always gets a gleam in his eye when he gets to talk about spider Y Banana on MNF. 

 

Chewy at the board. Ah, the rookie memories man.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

 Jon Gruden always gets a gleam in his eye when he gets to talk about spider Y Banana on MNF. 

 

Chewy at the board. Ah, the rookie memories man.

 

 

In my Gruden voice - SPIDER Y BANANA MAN, GOTTA LOVE IT!

[Gavin]

29 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

That is an interesting point Gavin. His 1st 3 yrs Luck had to scrabble because he couldn't trust the the pocket would remain intact & now Andrew is learning to stay there if his line allows it. So, it begs the question: What does he trust more? His feet or his arm? Old habits are hard to break. 

 

Nice entry BTW. 

 

Also, does he anticipate throws or is he waiting for guys to get open & they are failing to get any separation from defenders? All valid points Gavin. I think Pags & Chud want him to be a pocket passer but they know our line is a work in progress as well. So, they can't crucify him for moving when he has no other option available. 

Ill try to answer your questions the best I can based on what I see and my opinion. Keep in mind its in my opinion though so take it for what it is worth.

 

He trusts both his arm and his legs . It has nothing to do with his physical ability that he doesn't trust. Its all mental ability to have a clock in his head the second he hits his drop back spot 3-5-7 steps. I believe he should be able to scan through his first 2 reads in under 2.5 seconds. By the time you get to that 3rd read I think your pretty well going to be under pressure unless you have an elite O Line pass blocking wise or you have your QB out on the move

 

I think Chud can help him out more by giving him some throws that are easy for him to make early on the games. Particularly short throws to get him settled in. Sometimes guys are not getting separation though and I don't really think Lucks strength is to throw guys open right now much. I think he is still working on learning to throw guys open which really involves throwing the ball to an area and trusting the receiver will be there. Instead I think he waits for the receiver to run his route and if the receiver is not open at the break point then he hesitates instead of throwing it to an area and having the WR go get it.

 

Also from the looks of it he doesn't get hardly any plays called that allow for him to throw on the run. No QB Roll Outs really at all. He needs more help from Chud

[AZColt11]

I just don't think Luck trusts all his WR's yet.  I said this a couple of weeks ago to my buddy that he is waiting for the WR to come out of his break before throwing, which takes longer and leads to more problems.  I think he has decent chemistry with T.Y. but it's nowhere near the level that Manning had with Harrison and Wayne yet.  Takes time to build.  I also think in some of the situations where Luck makes the "boneheaded INT" throw he is trying to anticipate the pattern and it goes awry, which leads him to want to wait for the WR to break going forward.  I think it just may take a LOT more practice time and some years with these guys to gain that trust to know when they will break so he can release it sooner and not have something bad happen.

 

This is year 5 for Luck and T.Y. but not for everyone else.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 9/25/2016 at 6:02 PM, gacoop1 said:

$141 million dollar bust!

 

As a Troll you don't need to be pushed to greatness your already there & definetely a bust .

[SilentHill]

I'm just glad that Peyton went to Denver, this fan base would have torn him apart if he had to play on this team for the past 4 seasons. If we expect this much out of Luck, imagine what we would have expected from the best QB  this team has ever had?

[Gramz]

1 minute ago, SilentHill said:

I'm just glad that Peyton went to Denver, this fan base would have torn him apart if he had to play on this team for the past 4 seasons. If we expect this much out of Luck, imagine what we would have expected from the best QB  this team has ever had?

  some were tearing him apart while he was still here..       I never understood it either.

 

I do agree with you. And to take it a step further, he would NOT have gotten that second ring here.  Flat.Out.Would.Not.Have.Happened.

 

 

 

 

 

[OffensivelyPC]

12 hours ago, southwest1 said:

It is kind of hilarious how so many threads start with either fire Grigs, fire Pags, & Andrew is not living up to his 1st round expectations quickly enough. 

 

I go thru my frustrations periodically too with picks, but I can tell Chud is encouraging Luck to throw the ball away on bad plays more often now & that sometimes, tipped football interceptions just happen in bang bang plays. Luck is showing signs of improvement here gradually. 

He'll be fine and I mean, he's going to be here the next 6 years.  There's no perfect QB and even the very good one's have droughts, bad games here and there, etc.  Nothing wrong with being frustrated with that, but it'd jsut be nice if people could accept players with their faults and understand that sometimes, things aren't going to be perfect all of the time.  Accepting it doesn't mean you approve of it.  But it would be nice if, after a bad week, we don't always start to question what type of QB Luck is.  I'm not accusing you of anything, you've always been level headed from my perspective.  

 

Anyhow, at this point, he's a good QB, not much is going to change that between now and retirement, assuming something catastrophic doesn't happen like he gets shot buying groceries or injured into retirement.  Whether or not he'll ever be a great QB or better is a 15-20 year journey that we can't ever know the answer until it's obvious.  Right now it isn't because, as most people should understand, we're only 5 years into that 15-20 year career.  

[ColtsFanMikeC]

On 9/25/2016 at 5:04 AM, King Colt said:

Watching NFL Total Access this morning it was said maybe the expectations and hype on Luck were not applicable to what he is so far. He could be just a good QB instead of one of the elites. I am not sure they are wrong. Maybe being the number one daft after the career of Manning added to the hype. Right now he is not setting the league on fire and by this stage he is not looking "elite". I am not criticizing him because I believe he is more than enough to guide a good team to a trophy so when they get a good team things will change. By the way the predictions for the Colts on this program this morning are 2-14 to 4-12. Can't say I agree with those numbers if their injured list gets better.

 

Luck took the worst team in the league, hands down the worst, from 2-14 to 11-5 as a rookie, with not a very talented team.

 

Luck was off last year, and likely injured prior to his kidney injury that sidelined him the season, but he has put up better numbers than I'm pretty sure any other QB in NFL history through 3 seasons (aside from winning, I think Russell Wilson has that, but was asked to do only a fraction of what Luck has been demanded over the course of their careers).

 

Luck has made some bone-headed mistakes, but he has also done a lot more good.  There is no reason why he shouldn't be considered among the elite NFL QBs and no reason why, if he stays healthy and the front office continue to improve this team, he won't be cemented as an elite QB when his career is more mature.

[chad72]

I don't expect patience in a world that thrives on instant gratification, so I will let things be evaluated when a season ends. 

[Restored]

To the OP, was Luck pushed into greatness? Not exactly. Rather, I believe Luck has become the bi-product of a generation of Colts fans expectations of quarterback play. The Peyton Manning era left many in the Colts fan base with the high and often unrealistic expectation of how Andrew Luck should perform. Manning was a model of consistency but did not reach this level until his 6th season. Luck is just now in 5th year with a considerable case of being as good, if not better than Manning was in his first 5 years. Now, this is not to say Luck doesn't have his flaws because he certainly does. However, we should understand some of the circumstances that Luck has faced early in his career:

 

-3 different offensive coordinators since his rookie year.

-A mediocre to bad and often changing offensive line nearly every year.

-No legitimate running attack since day 1.

-One good, consistent WR since start of career (TY Hilton).

 

But I'm not going to turn this into a plethora of excuses for Luck. He still has some bad habits from when he entered the league (starring down WR's, not letting a play "die" and fumbling issues). I believe Luck is already a great quarterback, but I often feel that fans expect him to be the Superman that Peyton Manning was in the middle and latter stages of his career and that is simply unrealistic.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

4 hours ago, Gramz said:

  some were tearing him apart while he was still here..       I never understood it either.

 

I do agree with you. And to take it a step further, he would NOT have gotten that second ring here.  Flat.Out.Would.Not.Have.Happened.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Coming off his 2011 season playing with the Colts my biggest concern was he would be carted off the field with severe injury the team could not protect him & he never was a great runner he would have been a sitting duck in the pocket .

 

While i hated Denver I realized it was his best opportunity to succeed Tim Tebow had taken the Broncos into the playoffs & I felt there was no doubt 18 could easily especially with there defense , It really pisses me off that the COLTS could never give 18 a defense that could go all the way .

 

Think about it our 2006 defense 32'nd in the regular season actually turned it on to WIN a SB , They carried the team for the one & only time IMO in the Manning era , Yeah they had good games but for the most part they sucked the offense would play lights out while the D would blow leads consistently .

 

Now with Luck this franchise has repeated the mistakes of the past which makes the current team even worse than the Manning era Colts & what really aggravates me as a long time homer many choose to lay the blame on Luck who has done very good in a short period of time some even stupid enough to call him a BUST . We were lucky we got 18 & now just as lucky to have 12 but many just can't understand why we are losing or there bandwagon fans who expect instant gratification , 

 

Our issues as a franchise go back a decade whether its 18 or 12 no matter how good they can be there careers are limited & they have taken way to much abuse simply because there surrounding cast is lacking in talent .

 

Now its easy to blame coaches & GM's I have Dungy was brought here to fix the defense & Pagano was as well . 

 

Its never happened so what is the constant during this long period of time our offense never the defense & our ownership who talks about SB's yet has learned nothing for well over a decade repeating the mistakes of the past will not lead to another SB .

 

On the contrary by reviewing the past should just do things like what the Broncos did & the Colts will finally be the Monster those in charge claim they want to build . Is it Jim Irsays fault ? I believe he is not learning from past mistakes loyalty is fine but blind loyalty is not .

 

Our scouting is suspect IMO we need what we'v needed for decades a great defense to go with our offense if we are to ever see a SB win again .

 

Great QB's don't grow on trees & the Colts have been very lucky it is about time the franchise realized there mistakes & finally rectify the situation .

 

It makes me sick to spend so many years cheering for 18 & to realize he retired as a Bronco , Will we squander the Luck era as well ?  I sure as hell hope not , I'm a Colts fan I don't care one bit about any other teams & I'm disgusted & disappointed with our front office & owner .

 

18 in orange ..

[tikyle]

OP,

 

Yes

[southwest1]

6 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

He'll be fine and I mean, he's going to be here the next 6 years.  There's no perfect QB and even the very good one's have droughts, bad games here and there, etc.  Nothing wrong with being frustrated with that, but it'd jsut be nice if people could accept players with their faults and understand that sometimes, things aren't going to be perfect all of the time.  Accepting it doesn't mean you approve of it.  But it would be nice if, after a bad week, we don't always start to question what type of QB Luck is.  I'm not accusing you of anything, you've always been level headed from my perspective.  

 

Anyhow, at this point, he's a good QB, not much is going to change that between now and retirement, assuming something catastrophic doesn't happen like he gets shot buying groceries or injured into retirement.  Whether or not he'll ever be a great QB or better is a 15-20 year journey that we can't ever know the answer until it's obvious.  Right now it isn't because, as most people should understand, we're only 5 years into that 15-20 year career.  

Thank you for your post OPC, particularly what I highlighted in red. You're right though. Luck's early success in the league getting 1 step further every yr. minus DeFlate Gate has created an aura of playoff expectations that may not be easily achieved every season. Also, I like what you said about the fact that we all have habits good or bad that we will never change. The same is true of QBs. Some QBs are risk takers & with risks come both touchdowns & turnovers. 

 

I always cut Chewy a ton of slack because I know our running game isn't great & he always owns his picks saying "my fault". That's why I love the guy because he always takes responsibility on bad decision making himself even if the turnover isn't really his fault. 

 

I agree with you. Luck is just starting his NFL career & we as fans have to let the game come to him on his own timetable not what we or the media think his awareness level in yr 5. Like you say, Andrew has more football ahead of him than behind him. Well said. 

[southwest1]

3 hours ago, Restored said:

To the OP, was Luck pushed into greatness? Not exactly. Rather, I believe Luck has become the bi-product of a generation of Colts fans expectations of quarterback play. The Peyton Manning era left many in the Colts fan base with the high and often unrealistic expectation of how Andrew Luck should perform. Manning was a model of consistency but did not reach this level until his 6th season. Luck is just now in 5th year with a considerable case of being as good, if not better than Manning was in his first 5 years. Now, this is not to say Luck doesn't have his flaws because he certainly does. However, we should understand some of the circumstances that Luck has faced early in his career:

 

-3 different offensive coordinators since his rookie year.

-A mediocre to bad and often changing offensive line nearly every year.

-No legitimate running attack since day 1.

-One good, consistent WR since start of career (TY Hilton).

 

But I'm not going to turn this into a plethora of excuses for Luck. He still has some bad habits from when he entered the league (starring down WR's, not letting a play "die" and fumbling issues). I believe Luck is already a great quarterback, but I often feel that fans expect him to be the Superman that Peyton Manning was in the middle and latter stages of his career and that is simply unrealistic.

A great post Restored! Thank you for your insightful perspective. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

21 hours ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

...  It really pisses me off that the COLTS could never give 18 a defense that could go all the way .

 

Think about it our 2006 defense 32'nd in the regular season actually turned it on to WIN a SB , They carried the team for the one & only time IMO in the Manning era , Yeah they had good games but for the most part they sucked the offense would play lights out while the D would blow leads consistently .

 

Polian did  try.  He has stated on the record that It it's hard to maintain a roster when your QB finally gets that big contract, but there's nothing you can do.  You either want the guy, or you don't.  Payment is not an option.

 

As far as the D, it was the 32nd defense against the Run, and #2 defense against the pass in 2006,  and Rated #21 overall...

 

21 hours ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 Our issues as a franchise go back a decade whether its 18 or 12 no matter how good they can be there careers are limited & they have taken way to much abuse simply because there surrounding cast is lacking in talent .

 

I wanted to point out a few issues Polian did and now Grigson does face here. When you win, you first pic is essentially always a high second rounder. You have to get lucky and hit on some late drafts (IE Mathis, Bethea, etc...)  or UDFA (Saturday). Develop and keep your best players,, re-sign them.  From there your talent available and money to spend are somewhat limited.  You must define a scheme and select players to fit.  It is worthy to note Dungy had the Tampa 2, and that they could find and select smaller and quicker players that were still around in later rounds in that scheme. And positions like LB, they could let go and fill with next round of undersized speedy guys at bargain costs.  If big and fast guys were available, they would take that of course, but where they drafted, those players were long gone.

                                                                                             

So the Offense took chunks of money and Tony Dungy could  not build or afford a Tampa 2 defense just like the Dungy/Kiffin Tampa Bucs had.                                       

 

21 hours ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

Now its easy to blame coaches & GM's I have Dungy was brought here to fix the defense & Pagano was as well . 

 

Its never happened so what is the constant during this long period of time our offense never the defense & our ownership who talks about SB's yet has learned nothing for well over a decade repeating the mistakes of the past will not lead to another SB .

 

On the contrary by reviewing the past should just do things like what the Broncos did & the Colts will finally be the Monster those in charge claim they want to build . Is it Jim Irsays fault ? I believe he is not learning from past mistakes loyalty is fine but blind loyalty is not .

 

Once you get an elite caliber QB, you must supply weapons.  And get an O line.  Grigson failed (not for lack of trying) in the O line department so far, but did fairly well on skill offense.  TRich, AJ and other mistakes were made in skill positions, but by and large Grigs has done well.  From where I sit, the type of D Pagano and crew want to run takes big and fast guys. But those are largely gone by draft tine too.  It's hard to find and field an elite O and an elite D together that fits under the cap. It's rough business when you rebuilding team wins 11 per year.

 

21 hours ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

Our scouting is suspect IMO we need what we'v needed for decades a great defense to go with our offense if we are to ever see a SB win again .

 

Great QB's don't grow on trees & the Colts have been very lucky it is about time the franchise realized there mistakes & finally rectify the situation .

 

Easier said than done, for sure. But would be nice for sure.

 

21 hours ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

5 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Polian did  try.  He has stated on the record that It it's hard to maintain a roster when your QB finally gets that big contract, but there's nothing you can do.  You either want the guy, or you don't.  Payment is not an option.

 

As far as the D, it was the 32nd defense against the Run, and #2 defense against the pass in 2006,  and Rated #21 overall...

 

 

I wanted to point out a few issues Polian did and now Grigson does face here. When you win, you first pic is essentially always a high second rounder. You have to get lucky and hit on some late drafts (IE Mathis, Bethea, etc...)  or UDFA (Saturday). Develop and keep your best players,, re-sign them.  From there your talent available and money to spend are somewhat limited.  You must define a scheme and select players to fit.  It is worthy to note Dungy had the Tampa 2, and that they could find and select smaller and quicker players that were still around in later rounds in that scheme. And positions like LB, they could let go and fill with next round of undersized speedy guys at bargain costs.  If big and fast guys were available, they would take that of course, but where they drafted, those players were long gone.

                                                                                             

So the Offense took chunks of money and Tony Dungy could  not build or afford a Tampa 2 defense just like the Dungy/Kiffin Tampa Bucs had.                                       

 

 

Once you get an elite caliber QB, you must supply weapons.  And get an O line.  Grigson failed (not for lack of trying) in the O line department so far, but did fairly well on skill offense.  TRich, AJ and other mistakes were made in skill positions, but by and large Grigs has done well.  From where I sit, the type of D Pagano and crew want to run takes big and fast guys. But those are largely gone by draft tine too.  It's hard to find and field an elite O and an elite D together that fits under the cap. It's rough business when you rebuilding team wins 11 per year.

 

 

Easier said than done, for sure. But would be nice for sure.

 

 

 

Thanks  i appreciate your feedback I learn daily & this helps .

[CF4L]

On 9/27/2016 at 8:53 PM, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 Ballard also a rookie does not compare with Faulk first year & then Edge .

 

Manning got to a SB in the 2006 season 8 years into his career .

 

Currently assembled Luck does not have Addai or a good offensive line both 18 had defense on that team was ranked 32 for Manning , On that defense the Eraser Mathis & Freeney in there prime All Luck has is Old dude Mathis who is not a contributor like he was for Manning .

 

Luck in his short 4 years has 3 great seasons better than Manning in the same time frame .

 

And has overcome the 0-2 starts once again with a lot less of a supporting cast around him .

 

So you agree expectations for Luck are much greater than was for Manning .  And you only go on to prove my point the GM & coach in your own words were better than what Luck has had , Once again Luck has overcome alot to do even better than 18 at this point in his career ,

 

Trent Dilfer & Peyton Manning both received rings because of a great defense as game managers they did just good enough to win without there defense they would not have even been in the SB based on what they actually accomplished in those seasons .

 

Thats exactly what I'm saying I'm happy to see your picking up what I'm putting down .At this point in Lucks career compared to Manning there not equals at all Luck over 4 seasons was better & time will tell just how much as his career progresses & not to mention the team around him gets better .

 

Manning had a great coach Gm a running game & a defense that could get to the QB give that to Luck & watch the legend grow .

Like I said its all about context .

 

Yes and you ignore the context with Luck people touted him as better than Manning before he was even drafted. Why else did so many clamor to dump Manning to begin with because Andrew Luck was supposed to be the next best thing who is younger and cheaper. 

 

If he's that good he better be able to do it all he doesn't.

 

He's good but he's not on Manning's level. I never had that unrealistic expectation of him to begin with so I'm okay with him being very good. The rest of the team needs to follow though.

 

Not sure everyone else around here is though with the backflips people use to explain the bad decisions he's made with picks/fumbles. 

 

Yes Manning had a better GM/coach compared to Luck but he's also the same QB that went to 4 SBs with 4 different coaches I don't think you will ever see another player do that ever again.

 

 

 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

5 hours ago, CF4L said:

 

 

 

Yes Manning had a better GM/coach compared to Luck but he's also the same QB that went to 4 SBs with 4 different coaches I don't think you will ever see another player do that ever again.

 

 

 

 

Okay  but as a point of reference  Lucks first 4 years were better than Manning's I remember I was here for it watching & waiting for Manning to win his first playoff game or even get to his first AFC Championship game Luck did it quicker with less .

 

And of course I remember the first SB in 2007 anotherwards Luck is ahead of Manning at this point in his career . 18 was not gonna be able in 2012 to play on that team & go that far I was one of those that hoped he could stay & that we could draft Luck but I also would have hated to see him get hurt once again .

 

My hope is that the Colts recognize they screwed up with Manning & are able to give Luck a decent defense that can actually hold a lead & keep our franchise QB in Indy to win those Superbowls on 1 team with his 3'rd OC in his short career I get the Manning love but don't let it blind you from the truth &  only time will tell at this point Luck has proven he is a equal & based on the first 4 years better .

 

At this point . He has not played over a decade give it one then it might mean something in who's actually better .

 

I have my opinion based on the first 4 of each by both in that my point is proved .