TJ Green: Scouting Proile

[oldunclemark]

  Sorry..its you, Dustin...Thanks for posting

[Gavin]

6 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

This is a great analysis......Gavin

I don't know if I've ever read one quite so....so vivid.

Dustin did this. While I watch a lot of game tape I have not found the patience to take the time to be as thorough as Dustin is typing things out...Though we don't always agree. Could I do it? Yes but its a lot of work to type it all out even after you watch a lot of games on a guy. Credit goes to Dustin, As usual he does a great job

[Superman]

30 minutes ago, Flash said:

Superman to the the rescue! 

 

Thanks again, but I do find it hard to believe that knowing that Mays' strength was his ability to fly around and use his big body to punish offensive players and his weakness was coverage, that the teams that have worked with him have not tried to address his weakness. I think Mays, like many other very good/great athletes have a hard time adjusting to playing in the NFL. It's much more sophisticated than they may be used to, and that's where the great players are separated from those who are great athletes.

 

I'm afraid that my fear with TJ Green is that he may be an athletic freak, but might not have the instincts, and knowledge. 

 

Please know, this is just my fear. Things could turn out differently, but taking a guy in the 2nd round without much experience in that position has me worried. It appears that he was drafted on his potential rather than his actual play or game tape.

 

 

Consider the way the league has been changing. Mays at 230 was 'too small' to play linebacker. Mays right now would be moved down into the box full time, like Mark Barron (who was almost a lost cause, the Bucs got rid of him quickly) and Deone Bucannon. Teams were still trying to use these SS guys who couldn't cover as 8th man in the box and whatnot, but offenses were making them pay. Mays couldn't stay on the field. Not trying to make excuses for him, but I think he'd have a better chance if he were coming into the league right now.

 

Then again, Jeremy Cash went undrafted, which I really don't understand, but whatever...

 

Green might not be able to put it all together. But I think his physical gifts make him worth the risk and the effort. I don't think he'll be ready to play in anything more than a sub role this year, but after some time in, he might be good enough technically to let him go out there and figure the rest out.

 

And by the way, while he's definitely raw, I think some are overdoing it on how raw he is. His tape is good enough to understand why he was considered such a good prospect. It's not like he's totally lost out there every snap, just crashing into people.

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Dustin did this. While I watch a lot of game tape I have not found the patience to take the time to be as thorough as Dustin is typing things out...Though we don't always agree. Could I do it? Yes but its a lot of work to type it all out even after you watch a lot of games on a guy. Credit goes to Dustin, As usual he does a great job

 

I've done a few. Taking the time to put it all in words and in a format that you can share with others is very time consuming. I don't know how he did 40+ last year.

 

I wanted to do a bunch so that I could share my big board and keep all my thoughts straight, because I'm always confusing one guy for the next. Didn't quite make it...

[Gavin]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I've done a few. Taking the time to put it all in words and in a format that you can share with others is very time consuming. I don't know how he did 40+ last year.

 

I wanted to do a bunch so that I could share my big board and keep all my thoughts straight, because I'm always confusing one guy for the next. Didn't quite make it...

Another problem I have is when I know I have a prospect nailed down to what he is at the time of the draft (as opposed to what he possibly could be within a few years of developing) I listen to what others say on a prospect...especially the so called professional gurus and go back and watch the guy over and over again until my eyes sometimes trick me into seeing what they see which is not always right. I get annoyed when I get a post from anybody where I feel they are implying scouts and so called gurus are right and amateur fans are wrong because they are fans. In theory and in a perfect world that fan that insinuates that (and Im not calling anyone out)  is right but the world is not perfect and neither are scouts or gurus

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Another problem I have is when I know I have a prospect nailed down to what he is at the time of the draft (as opposed to what he possibly could be within a few years of developing) I listen to what others say on a prospect...especially the so called professional gurus and go back and watch the guy over and over again until my eyes sometimes trick me into seeing what they see which is not always right. I get annoyed when I get a post from anybody where I feel they are implying scouts and so called gurus are right and amateur fans are wrong because they are fans. In theory and in a perfect world that fan that insinuates that (and Im not calling anyone out)  is right but the world is not perfect and neither are scouts or gurus

 

There is a difference between watching videos online and full on scouting. There's a difference in access, the kind of film you can watch (how many all 22 cuts can you watch from college?), injury reports, understanding assignments, etc. It doesn't make what we as fans do worthless, but I don't consider my video watching and charting and research "scouting." 

 

Still, sometimes, I do think I see something that other people aren't paying attention to, or I don't see something that other people are talking about. I disagree with the people who get paid to do this all the time. I don't know why people liked Malcom Brown last year... I don't know why Jeremy Cash went undrafted this year. But what I do for recreation isn't the same as what those guys do for a living.

 

And you're right, anyone can be wrong, while someone else gets it right. But don't forget Hayworth Hicks... ;)

[Gavin]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

There is a difference between watching videos online and full on scouting. There's a difference in access, the kind of film you can watch (how many all 22 cuts can you watch from college?), injury reports, understanding assignments, etc. It doesn't make what we as fans do worthless, but I don't consider my video watching and charting and research "scouting." 

 

Still, sometimes, I do think I see something that other people aren't paying attention to, or I don't see something that other people are talking about. I disagree with the people who get paid to do this all the time. I don't know why people liked Malcom Brown last year... I don't know why Jeremy Cash went undrafted this year. But what I do for recreation isn't the same as what those guys do for a living.

 

And you're right, anyone can be wrong, while someone else gets it right. But don't forget Hayworth Hicks... ;)

"But don't forget Hayworth Hicks..." ;)

 

Trust me I don't, I whiffed bad on that one. But I was dead on about Mcglynn and Satele

[Defjamz26]

This is the same reaction people had to the Smith pick last year. Everyone wants guys ready to play now, no one believes in upside. Whenever you get guys outside of the first round, they're going to be more of a project.

 

Green will be find. He's very coachable.Clemson isn't exactly known for its well coached/ready to play DBs so it's not hard to believe that he's not great in coverage and lacks technique. But he has what it takes to be a very good NFL player. The DB whisperer is going to work wonders with him.

[LockeDown]

2 hours ago, Flash said:

Superman to the the rescue! 

 

 

Greetings,  Justice Leaguers.  

[OffensivelyPC]

16 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

This is the same reaction people had to the Smith pick last year. Everyone wants guys ready to play now, no one believes in upside. Whenever you get guys outside of the first round, they're going to be more of a project.

 

Green will be find. He's very coachable.Clemson isn't exactly known for its well coached/ready to play DBs so it's not hard to believe that he's not great in coverage and lacks technique. But he has what it takes to be a very good NFL player. The DB whisperer is going to work wonders with him.

That's just it..he may not. I like taking high risk/high reward players (different story in the 1st, where I would be a little more conservative), so I'm not against this pick at all.  I do think Grigson/Pagano is trying to build the best possible team leaning toward upside over risk, because they probably have only 2 years to really make good progress before being reevaluated. This draft was pretty unusual compared to the first 4 drafts.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, SP_21 said:

You have a valid point but IMO if none of those guys hit we'll still be fine. I wouldn't worry too much we've got Luck on our side. 

 

We already have a very thin roster....

 

And now what I've basically said is how do our 1st and 2nd picks in 2015 play this year and next?

 

And how do our 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 4th and 5th round picks play?

 

Trust me,  we literally can NOT "be fine" if those guys don't perform up to their draft slot.

 

Andrew Luck -- as good as he is -- can NOT overcome having so many top picks not perform up to expectations.

 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Gavin said:

I thought you were the one raving about how the draft gurus and Mocks had him as a early round pick last night  or yesterday (Speaking of Green)

 

I did.....

 

And if the picks live up to expectations -- then the Colts will be fine.

 

And if the picks DON'T live up to expectations -- then the Colts will NOT be fine.

 

What the gurus say on draft weekend is one thing.....    what the players actually do on the playing field is quite another.

 

[SP_21]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We already have a very thin roster....

 

And now what I've basically said is how do our 1st and 2nd picks in 2015 play this year and next?

 

And how do our 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 4th and 5th round picks play?

 

Trust me,  we literally can NOT "be fine" if those guys don't perform up to their draft slot.

 

Andrew Luck -- as good as he is -- can NOT overcome having so many top picks not perform up to expectations.

 

I disagree. Of course it is a worst case scenario but I think we'd survive. The core of the team: Luck, TY, AC, Vontae, would still be there. 

 

Theres no point in arguing over this anymore. Hopefully we don't completely strike out  

[Lawrence Owen]

Yeah, thing is Pagano was there at Clemson, and worked him out, talked to him, ect.  Obviously this in-person contact is something non of us had with Green.  Pagano knows his stuff about Db's and if he wanted him THAT bad, there must be something he Loves about him and believes strongly about.  Lets just sit back for a year or two and see what comes out of the canvas he invested in.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

10 hours ago, Myles said:

Good summary.    Well, not good from a Colts standpoint.  

I hope he can be a great return guy.  

 

A 2nd round pick on a ST player......nice going griggs.

 

[SP_21]

10 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

A 2nd round pick on a ST player......nice going griggs.

 

He's going to take time to develop before we can use him on defense. Might as well use him on special teams so we can get his talent on the field in some capacity. Otherwise he's just wasted space on gameday. 

[jvan1973]

16 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

A 2nd round pick on a ST player......nice going griggs.

 

Lots of rookies play special teams.   Not uncommon

[LJpalmbeacher2]

9 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Yeah, thing is Pagano was there at Clemson, and worked him out, talked to him, ect.  Obviously this in-person contact is something non of us had with Green.  Pagano knows his stuff about Db's and if he wanted him THAT bad, there must be something he Loves about him and believes strongly about.  Lets just sit back for a year or two and see what comes out of the canvas he invested in.

 

Pagano, imo, has the IQ similar to a door mat. Let alone the fact he is at best a average HC. He should NOT BE INVOLED IN PLAYER PERSONEL decisions, especially draft prospects. I realize Irsay & griggs want him to feel more involed in the process But this kind of stuff is going to run our Colts in the ground.

The Jags & Titans drafted in the 2nd rd. : Myles Jack, Kevin Dodd, Austin Johnson, and Heisman winner Derrick Henry.

Our 2nd rd. pick is a safety that don't know how to cover or tackle!

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, OffensivelyPC said:

That's just it..he may not. I like taking high risk/high reward players (different story in the 1st, where I would be a little more conservative), so I'm not against this pick at all.  I do think Grigson/Pagano is trying to build the best possible team leaning toward upside over risk, because they probably have only 2 years to really make good progress before being reevaluated. This draft was pretty unusual compared to the first 4 drafts.

I don't see how he is a high risk player. We've seen players with twice the production bomb in the NFL. Superman would be the first to tell you that any pick is a risk. Scooby Wright was a high risk/high reward player because lacked athleticism, which is why he fell to the 7th round.

 

I don't think the draft was weird. They finally did what everyone has been screaming for them to do by fixing the O-line.

[SP_21]

6 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

Pagano, imo, has the IQ similar to a door mat. Let alone the fact he is at best a average HC. He should NOT BE INVOLED IN PLAYER PERSONEL decisions, especially draft prospects. I realize Irsay & griggs want him to feel more involed in the process But this kind of stuff is going to run our Colts in the ground.

The Jags & Titans drafted in the 2nd rd. : Myles Jack, Kevin Dodd, Austin Johnson, and Heisman winner Derrick Henry.

Our 2nd rd. pick is a safety that don't know how to cover or tackle!

Wow. Just wow

[jvan1973]

20 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

Pagano, imo, has the IQ similar to a door mat. Let alone the fact he is at best a average HC. He should NOT BE INVOLED IN PLAYER PERSONEL decisions, especially draft prospects. I realize Irsay & griggs want him to feel more involed in the process But this kind of stuff is going to run our Colts in the ground.

The Jags & Titans drafted in the 2nd rd. : Myles Jack, Kevin Dodd, Austin Johnson, and Heisman winner Derrick Henry.

Our 2nd rd. pick is a safety that don't know how to cover or tackle!

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, SP_21 said:

I disagree. Of course it is a worst case scenario but I think we'd survive. The core of the team: Luck, TY, AC, Vontae, would still be there. 

 

Theres no point in arguing over this anymore. Hopefully we don't completely strike out  

 

First....    I'm not arguing.

 

Second....  I've just listed 7 high draft picks over two years.     If they don't perform as we expect....   the Colts are dead.

 

Luck, TY, AC Vonte and anyone else aren't anywhere near enough.    Not even remotely close.

 

It's a 53 man sport....  our roster is already thin.    If 7 high draft picks under-perform our expectations,   the Colts will be in serious,   serious trouble.

 

[Myles]

13 hours ago, Flash said:

 

 

 

I'm afraid that my fear with TJ Green is that he may be an athletic freak, but might not have the instincts, and knowledge. 

 

 

Not just your fear.   It is backed up with stats.  

We just hope that Pagano and his team can mold him.

[Myles]

9 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I don't see how he is a high risk player. We've seen players with twice the production bomb in the NFL. Superman would be the first to tell you that any pick is a risk. Scooby Wright was a high risk/high reward player because lacked athleticism, which is why he fell to the 7th round.

 

I don't think the draft was weird. They finally did what everyone has been screaming for them to do by fixing the O-line.

I agree that this was a good draft for the Colts.   Fixing the O-line for the coming years was a priority and was addressed. 

 

I don't see how you can argue that this wasn't a high risk pick.   Of course it was.    But it is also high reward, so not as bad as some may think.   With Green's size, speed and drive, he could be a great asset in the secondary.   However, we must admit that with his inexperience and tackling deficiencies, he could also wind up being just a special teams guy.   I think the odds are in our favor at this point.  High risk/High reward isn't always bad.  

[NewEra]

We can all sit back and judge the tape. But I'm sure the coaches combined that with what's between the ears. All the talent is there. Even could add a few pounds without losing speed. I think the kids going to be really good. 

[theanarchist]

22 hours ago, Dustin said:

I did a bunch of these last year (like 40) and I didn't get as many as I wanted done this years (I think I may have only done 4 or 5), but I figured I'd do them for the players we drafted this year.

 

 

Games Watched: vs. Alabama, vs. Louisville

 

MockDraftable Athletic Profile: http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/8062/position/23/

 

Positives: 

 

World class speed. Probably the fastest safety currently in the NFL. Speed is evident when you watch him. Not just workout fast. Fluid athlete all-around.

 

Good size/length. Comes in at 6'2" 210 lbs 

 

Aggressives coming down-hill and attacking the ball-carrier. No fear or hesitation against bigger backs or receivers. 

 

High-motor. Always looking to get in on the play. 

 

A ton of confidence in his own ability. 

 

Unlimited upside. Will be 21 when the season starts and only has 2 years of safety under his belt. 

 

Negatives: 

 

Watching the game videos, it's pretty apparent that Clemson's coaching staff had absolutely 0% confidence in him in coverage. His role ranged from either playing in the box as a nickel-lb or playing nearly 25-30 yards off the line of scrimmage as a last line of defense.

 

Very few man-coverage snaps. Which goes with the outlined point above. 

 

Not good at anticipating where the ball will be.

 

Inconsistent tackling. Can wrap up and drive players to the ground or dive at their feet and completely whiff. Had 19 missed tackles last season. 

 

Doesn't locate the ball in the air if it's not in front of him.

 

Too many false-steps. Trusts in his ability, but not in his decision making. 

 

GIFs: 

 

The website isn't allowing me to make GIFs for some reason so 'ill give you the time and game so you can see what I am talking about.

 

(Alabama: 4:48) Total lack of awareness allows the TE to score a long TD.

(Alabama 6:19) Doesn't get his hands up or look back for the ball despite the WR telegraphing the ball coming to him. 

(Alabama 7:32) I don't know who's at fault on this particular TD, but judging from the rest of the players, It looks to be on Green not knowing his assignment.

(Alabama 7:55) Comes across basically the entire field on a kickoff return to almost catch the returner.

 

(Louisville :18) Has a direct shot at the RB and whiffs after diving for his legs. 

(Louisville 2:32) Did he lose the ball in the air? I have no idea how the WRs pulls away from him so much. 

(Louisville 4:56) Takes a horrible angle to the ball-carrier and doesn't make a tackle. Had he taken a better angle or reacted faster he probably could have decapitated that TE. 

 

Conclusion:

 

Green is a high upside player with a ton of natural ability and what looks like a willingness to reach it. Unfortunately at this time it looks like he's much closer to his floor than he is to his ceiling. Green shows basically no awareness in coverage and just looks like a very fast guy in a football uniform. When you learn that he's a former WR, it makes sense, because he plays the position like a WR would. There's a difference between just being bad in coverage and not being able to actually play in coverage, and at this point Green is the latter; which isn't necessarily the worse of the 2 choices because Green may not look like he knows what he's doing because he actually doesn't know what he is supposed to be doing: he has only 1 year of starting on defense, it may just be a case of learning the position. I'm glad that the Colts are going to be keeping him at safety, because I feared for the defense if he was ever forced to play cornerback. That would have made Cassius Vaughn look like Darrell Revis. Green will likely start off on special teams coverage and maybe log between 150-200 snaps on defense. I don't see him starting over Geathers any time soon, so he'll most likely take over for Mike Adams next season. Hopefully he can play in coverage by then.  

 

Athleticism: (9/10)

Coverage Ability (1/10)

Run Game\Tackling (5/10)

Physicality (6/10)

Technical (2/10)

 

NFL Comp: Laron Landry

So, I'm not the only one who thought he looked lost and wondered how an NFL team could take him in the 2nd round. When Shiliq Calhoun has 8+ sacks this year I'll be back on this topic. There must be some tape out there somewhere that shows that Green actually knows how to play football and just not run fast in a straight line... I just haven't seen it yet.

[CoachLite]

There are a lot of very good comments in this discussion, on all sides. I think the decision to draft Green was based on: Do the coaches think THEY can teach Green the necessary skills to become a great DB. They said yes. As noted, some of these coaches have been very wrong on similar judgments before. This should be fun to watch (or not).

[OffensivelyPC]

11 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I don't see how he is a high risk player. We've seen players with twice the production bomb in the NFL. Superman would be the first to tell you that any pick is a risk. Scooby Wright was a high risk/high reward player because lacked athleticism, which is why he fell to the 7th round.

 

I don't think the draft was weird. They finally did what everyone has been screaming for them to do by fixing the O-line.

He absolutely is a high risk, high reward player.  I get that any draft pick is a risk; I agree with that.  But some are more of a risk than others and Green, Clark and perhaps Ridgeway all fit that description, IMO.  these are all guys that have high ceilings and low floors, especially Green and Clark.  Great physical traits for the position, but their tape is not all that impressive or, in Green and Clark's case, has a lot of dead tape.  For Green, he lined up as a deep safety 20 plus yards off the ball a lot, which would never happen in the NFL outside of prevent defenses.  That tape is not really usable.  Clark played in an offensive system that does not translate to the NFL, so he's one of the tougher guys to gauge.  To me, those are risks that, at least for the 2nd and 3rd round, are above and beyond the typical risks you associate with football players.  Yeah, production can be inflated or not.  But every guy has stats upon which he is judged.  Not every guy has 1st round talent traits with a lot of unusable film and of the film that is usable, is not all that impressive.  And we drafted two of them this year with high picks.   That's pretty unusual for Grigson which is why I said this draft was a little weird.

[Surge89]

11 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

 

Pagano, imo, has the IQ similar to a door mat. Let alone the fact he is at best a average HC. He should NOT BE INVOLED IN PLAYER PERSONEL decisions, especially draft prospects. I realize Irsay & griggs want him to feel more involed in the process But this kind of stuff is going to run our Colts in the ground.

The Jags & Titans drafted in the 2nd rd. : Myles Jack, Kevin Dodd, Austin Johnson, and Heisman winner Derrick Henry.

Our 2nd rd. pick is a safety that don't know how to cover or tackle!

 

Lol what? 

 

So the guy who got more personnel control from the owner is as dumb as a rock and average? The guy who took a team with no starting QB and a GM forcing his players on his game day roster, and still won games is average?

 

Hmm ok

[Defjamz26]

22 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

He absolutely is a high risk, high reward player.  I get that any draft pick is a risk; I agree with that.  But some are more of a risk than others and Green, Clark and perhaps Ridgeway all fit that description, IMO.  these are all guys that have high ceilings and low floors, especially Green and Clark.  Great physical traits for the position, but their tape is not all that impressive or, in Green and Clark's case, has a lot of dead tape.  For Green, he lined up as a deep safety 20 plus yards off the ball a lot, which would never happen in the NFL outside of prevent defenses.  That tape is not really usable.  Clark played in an offensive system that does not translate to the NFL, so he's one of the tougher guys to gauge.  To me, those are risks that, at least for the 2nd and 3rd round, are above and beyond the typical risks you associate with football players.  Yeah, production can be inflated or not.  But every guy has stats upon which he is judged.  Not every guy has 1st round talent traits with a lot of unusable film and of the film that is usable, is not very good.

 

1. I agree that they have lower floors. But I think that's the difference between 1st round picks and 2nd-3rd round picks. And that's normal IMO. It's about if they display coachable traits whole flashing potential to be more. If you wanna talk offenses then Mariota would be a high risk/high reward player because he played in the most prolific spread offense in CFB. But if you consider that he showed that he was very coachable and flashed more than enough potential, he wasn't a high risk guy (although some in the media made it seem that way).

 

2. It really depends on how you weigh the risks. The spread offense has killed the development of OL at the next level, so are you going to label every guy who never put his hand in the dirt a major risk? Are we going to label a guy who only played FS for 2 years a risk because he may not be as pro ready as a Joseph or Bell?

 

For me those are normal flaws for 2nd-3rd rounders when they have the HWS that teams want, which Clark and Green do. When I think of high risk/high reward I think of guys with character issues, injury concerns, and/or lack of HWS. Oakman before his arrest was a high risk guy because he was terrible and gave no effort but had enticing size you couldn't ignore. Spence was high risk because of his obvious character issues. Erik Striker was a high risk guy who went undrafted because of his size.

 

Green and Clark? Two guys with terrific HWS, clean character, and no injury concerns? I don't see them as high risk guys more than the typical risks of a standard 2nd-3rd round picks. If they are high risk guys based on what you said then there are a lot of players in the league that GMs gambled on and luckily won out.

[SteelCityColt]

One thing I know for sure... regardless of  how good he turns out to be I'm tied into buying his Jersey... at least now I can finally have my name on the back!  

[OffensivelyPC]

20 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

2. It really depends on how you weigh the risks. The spread offense has killed the development of OL at the next level, so are you going to label every guy who never put his hand in the dirt a major risk? Are we going to label a guy who only played FS for 2 years a risk because he may not be as pro ready as a Joseph or Bell?

 

I think that's really what we are disputing, which ultimately is a preference.  I do like the potential of these two kids though.  And where I cant' help but agree with you is that these risks are more fitted for 2nd and 3rd round picks.  While I may put a bit more weight on them, I'd rather take this type of risk in the 2nd/3rd round (or later) than in the first.  That's why I can't really be terribly disappointed with the Kelly pick this year.  I wish we would have traded back a few spots and picked up another 4th-ish pick, but it was about as safe a pick as you could ask for even if you think that we didn't max out the value of the 18th pick (and maybe time will say that we did).

[COLTS449]

I just cant understand why we took a "project" player in round 2, when we could have drafted a guy who could have came in and started and made a big impact right away. Yeah sure Green can reach his potential and be a very good safety. But he can also be a bust and IMO that's way more likely. I have a feeling we'll be regretting this one. We could have had the following guys, and I think all these guys will be better players. Jarran Reed, Deion Jones, Sua Cravens, Mackenzie Alexander, Cody Whitehair, Vonn Bell, etc.

[Myles]

4 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

I just cant understand why we took a "project" player in round 2, when we could have drafted a guy who could have came in and started and made a big impact right away. Yeah sure Green can reach his potential and be a very good safety. But he can also be a bust and IMO that's way more likely. I have a feeling we'll be regretting this one. We could have had the following guys, and I think all these guys will be better players. Jarran Reed, Deion Jones, Sua Cravens, Mackenzie Alexander, Cody Whitehair, Vonn Bell, etc.

Save this for a year or 2.

[Defjamz26]

11 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

I just cant understand why we took a "project" player in round 2, when we could have drafted a guy who could have came in and started and made a big impact right away. Yeah sure Green can reach his potential and be a very good safety. But he can also be a bust and IMO that's way more likely. I have a feeling we'll be regretting this one. We could have had the following guys, and I think all these guys will be better players. Jarran Reed, Deion Jones, Sua Cravens, Mackenzie Alexander, Cody Whitehair, Vonn Bell, etc.

His ceiling is higher than any safety in this draft.  But we shall see how the careers of those guys pan out so be prepared.

[DarkHorse]

Vonn Bell was still available, I ask myself why not him

[superrep1967]

On 5/2/2016 at 10:01 AM, Dustin said:

I did a bunch of these last year (like 40) and I didn't get as many as I wanted done this years (I think I may have only done 4 or 5), but I figured I'd do them for the players we drafted this year.

 

 

Games Watched: vs. Alabama, vs. Louisville

 

MockDraftable Athletic Profile: http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/8062/position/23/

 

Positives: 

 

World class speed. Probably the fastest safety currently in the NFL. Speed is evident when you watch him. Not just workout fast. Fluid athlete all-around.

 

Good size/length. Comes in at 6'2" 210 lbs 

 

Aggressives coming down-hill and attacking the ball-carrier. No fear or hesitation against bigger backs or receivers. 

 

High-motor. Always looking to get in on the play. 

 

A ton of confidence in his own ability. 

 

Unlimited upside. Will be 21 when the season starts and only has 2 years of safety under his belt. 

 

Negatives: 

 

Watching the game videos, it's pretty apparent that Clemson's coaching staff had absolutely 0% confidence in him in coverage. His role ranged from either playing in the box as a nickel-lb or playing nearly 25-30 yards off the line of scrimmage as a last line of defense.

 

Very few man-coverage snaps. Which goes with the outlined point above. 

 

Not good at anticipating where the ball will be.

 

Inconsistent tackling. Can wrap up and drive players to the ground or dive at their feet and completely whiff. Had 19 missed tackles last season. 

 

Doesn't locate the ball in the air if it's not in front of him.

 

Too many false-steps. Trusts in his ability, but not in his decision making. 

 

GIFs: 

 

The website isn't allowing me to make GIFs for some reason so 'ill give you the time and game so you can see what I am talking about.

 

(Alabama: 4:48) Total lack of awareness allows the TE to score a long TD.

(Alabama 6:19) Doesn't get his hands up or look back for the ball despite the WR telegraphing the ball coming to him. 

(Alabama 7:32) I don't know who's at fault on this particular TD, but judging from the rest of the players, It looks to be on Green not knowing his assignment.

(Alabama 7:55) Comes across basically the entire field on a kickoff return to almost catch the returner.

 

(Louisville :18) Has a direct shot at the RB and whiffs after diving for his legs. 

(Louisville 2:32) Did he lose the ball in the air? I have no idea how the WRs pulls away from him so much. 

(Louisville 4:56) Takes a horrible angle to the ball-carrier and doesn't make a tackle. Had he taken a better angle or reacted faster he probably could have decapitated that TE. 

 

Conclusion:

 

Green is a high upside player with a ton of natural ability and what looks like a willingness to reach it. Unfortunately at this time it looks like he's much closer to his floor than he is to his ceiling. Green shows basically no awareness in coverage and just looks like a very fast guy in a football uniform. When you learn that he's a former WR, it makes sense, because he plays the position like a WR would. There's a difference between just being bad in coverage and not being able to actually play in coverage, and at this point Green is the latter; which isn't necessarily the worse of the 2 choices because Green may not look like he knows what he's doing because he actually doesn't know what he is supposed to be doing: he has only 1 year of starting on defense, it may just be a case of learning the position. I'm glad that the Colts are going to be keeping him at safety, because I feared for the defense if he was ever forced to play cornerback. That would have made Cassius Vaughn look like Darrell Revis. Green will likely start off on special teams coverage and maybe log between 150-200 snaps on defense. I don't see him starting over Geathers any time soon, so he'll most likely take over for Mike Adams next season. Hopefully he can play in coverage by then.  

 

Athleticism: (9/10)

Coverage Ability (1/10)

Run Game\Tackling (5/10)

Physicality (6/10)

Technical (2/10)

 

NFL Comp: Laron Landry

why waste a second round pick on a obvious project player when we clearly need a pass rusher not a smart pick. 

 

[chad72]

15 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

This is the same reaction people had to the Smith pick last year. Everyone wants guys ready to play now, no one believes in upside. Whenever you get guys outside of the first round, they're going to be more of a project.

 

Green will be find. He's very coachable.Clemson isn't exactly known for its well coached/ready to play DBs so it's not hard to believe that he's not great in coverage and lacks technique. But he has what it takes to be a very good NFL player. The DB whisperer is going to work wonders with him.

 

This, I agree with. LSU, South Carolina and Alabama seem to have far superior DB coaching.

[krunk]

I don't think the Colts intended for Green to be an immediate starter as a pure Free Safety in the first place. From Grigsons comments it's clear they are aware he's a little bit of a project at that spot as it stands right now.  They know what the numbers are way better than we do.  Where they saw the best value is at the Nickel and Dime Linebacker spots, along with certain other sub package match ups and miss matches he will give us against other teams slot receivers and tight ends.  I think he'll be pretty good doing exactly what Clayton Geathers did last year.  Teams are in sub packages around 70 percent of the time so that basically makes him a starter for that role.  And he'll also play a lot on special teams as well.

 

This allows him to play immediately while we coach him up for a transition to being the full time FS in 2017. In 2017 I'd expect for him to be a much more refined FS and he should also be bigger. The only thing is I think at some point this year he will end up being forced to take over for Adams a lot earlier than they are anticipating.  I think Adams is slowing down a little bit and starting to get nicked up more often, so unless we have another plan for FS it will be Green that has to take over for him in case of injury. 

 

After soaking all of this up I'm pretty okay with this pick. A lot more than I was initially.

[theanarchist]

On 5/2/2016 at 10:57 AM, krunk said:

Biggest thing I didn't like with Green was the busted coverages didn't seem like they stemmed from him trying to make plays. They seemed to happen because he didn't understand what his responsibility was against certain formation.  I still don't think as it stands right now he's a real sound tackler, but he'll stick his nose in there I suppose.  If he can make some strides in both of the above areas he'll be really good.

Needs to make strides in coverage and tackling....hmmmm....well he's got the running in a straight line really fast thing down....I really hate this pick. I know I've posted several times and I'm probably beating the dead horse but I really don't see what they saw in this guy. I would take a 4.59 guy who has instincts and smarts over a 4.34 guy who looks lost. But hey, thats just me