What is wrong with Peyton Manning?

[SilentHill]

To those that watch the Denver games...

 

Is it the Kubiak offense? Is it father time? bad o-line play?

 

Manning's slow start is of historic proportions (in his timeline) at this point.

[18Manning]

To those that watch the Denver games...

 

Is it the Kubiak offense? Is it father time? bad o-line play?

 

Manning's slow start is of historic proportions (in his timeline) at this point.

 

I think it's all of the above...

[18Manning]

Without a doubt, the O line is terrible. Bad O line translate to no run game. No run games makes Denver more dependent on an aging Manning. Manning having to throw more means he gets tired quicker. On top of that, they're asking Manning (at least at the start of the season) to move away from something he has done his entire career.

[Yoshinator]

To those that watch the Denver games...

 

Is it the Kubiak offense? Is it father time? bad o-line play?

 

Manning's slow start is of historic proportions (in his timeline) at this point.

It is all 3. Manning just looks done at this point. Part of it is Kubiak restricting him in the passing game, but he has also declined quite a bit. He is throwing more INT's every game it seems. 1 in each of the first 3 games. 2 in each of the next 2 games. Then 3 this week Vs the Browns. 10 INTs in 6 games.

[aaron11]

he's getting too old

[18Manning]

he's getting too old

 

The Colts O line has been better, but if you look at even a young Luck with no run or protection, it's not pretty.

[Qwiz]

He's a fossil out there basically.

[HungarianColtsFan]

39 years and a very serious injury what took him 2 seasons to recover.

[Gramz]

I agree with 18 above.

SH you know what a fan I am, but I'm not an apologist, or a homer, or so many other adjectives people like to use when describing Peyton fans. I'm just a "fan" and have been for a long time.

Having said that, this season is bittersweet and frustrating to watch.

He finally has a killer Defense, and there is no question the D is why they're 6-0. Can you imagine Peyton in his Prime with this D?

To answer your question, I think the trouble is a combo of things. Sure Peyton shoulders some of the blame, but trying fit him into Kubiaks offense is like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Peyton under center does not work, and the O line is terrible.

I see glimpses of greatness still, just when I am ready to join the ranks of those that say its time for him to walk away he'll do something great and there will be the glimpse of the HOF player we know, but glimpses are not enough to sustain. Something is going to have to give.

[throwing BBZ]

 Just enjoy it.

[18Manning]

I agree with 18 above.

SH you know what a fan I am, but I'm not an apologist, or a homer, or so many other adjectives people like to use when describing Peyton fans. I'm just a "fan" and have been for a long time.

Having said that, this season is bittersweet and frustrating to watch.

He finally has a killer Defense, and there is no question the D is why they're 6-0. Can you imagine Peyton in his Prime with this D?

To answer your question, I think the trouble is a combo of things. Sure Peyton shoulders some of the blame, but trying fit him into Kubiaks offense is like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Peyton under center does not work, and the O line is terrible.

I see glimpses of greatness still, just when I am ready to join the ranks of those that say its time for him to walk away he'll do something great and there will be the glimpse of the HOF player we know, but glimpses are not enough to sustain. Something is going to have to give.

 

That would be INCREDIBLE! I do feel for him though, as you said to have such a good D and can't get the O going.

[crazycolt1]

 Just enjoy it.

As a Manning fan there is little left to enjoy. I agree it is all of the things listed but the main one is father time with the combination of the neck surgery. I have has the same thing done two times over the last 7 years. Mine was a lot more extensive but still I understand what he is going through. He had work done on one cervical disc while I had work done on four in the last surgery. It made me completely disabled as far as working. I would think he has bouts with numbness in his hand just as I do. Maybe not as bad but any in his job is effecting him. Also the loss of strength with the numbness.

[Gramz]

CC1 I think you misunderstood ThrowingBBZ. I believe he is enjoying Peyton playing badly.

[Narcosys]

I unfortunately do not think Manning will finish this season out.  I think he will get benched.  A great QB like him will be unceremoniously removed and also forced out for something out of his control.  That is the sad part of it all, he isn't performing less then he use to because he is getting old, or is not adapting, it is because a degenerating injury.  Seems completely unfair to me.

[csmopar]

To those that watch the Denver games...

 

Is it the Kubiak offense? Is it father time? bad o-line play?

 

Manning's slow start is of historic proportions (in his timeline) at this point.

 

 

All 3 but more of injuries than anything else

[Patagonia Chris]

It truly is sad watching athletes who have performed at a high level fall off like this. I think it's about time to put the old Bronco out to pasture.

[Vinatieri4]

I love Peyton Manning and all he has done for the Colts. But I've been saying it for YEARS now to my friends that he hasn't been right since that surgery. 

 

Example 1:   His playoff game vs Ravens they lost his first year on Broncos. Remember towards the end of the cold game his arm got weaker? 

 

Example 2: The year he broke the touchdown record, what worked??? The screen passes, take that away this year and last year, and he can't beat you.

 

Example 3: The Colts games, the colts have given blue prints how to beat him, and now every team does the same thing. Make Peyton Manning beat you with his arm. Weird to say right???

 

Example 4:  We are saying he shouldn't go under center, isn't that messed up? Like, don't we say "a QB shouldn't be taken with the first pick if they can't go under center" As if they wouldn't be any good. But since he has the last name of Manning its okay if it's only shotgun??

 

Example 5:  He shows flashes, but still just has no arm strength, more wobble on the passes than ever before.  This season is the lowest yards per attempt hes ever attempted. 

 

 

I just think he's done. 

[jvan1973]

Just enjoy it.

What exactly are you enjoying?

[18Manning]

As a Manning fan there is little left to enjoy. I agree it is all of the things listed but the main one is father time with the combination of the neck surgery. I have has the same thing done two times over the last 7 years. Mine was a lot more extensive but still I understand what he is going through. He had work done on one cervical disc while I had work done on four in the last surgery. It made me completely disabled as far as working. I would think he has bouts with numbness in his hand just as I do. Maybe not as bad but any in his job is effecting him. Also the loss of strength with the numbness.

 

Wasn't there something out not too long ago about him not having feeling in his finger tips since surgery?

[Synthetic]

He's aged and hit the twilight of his career. Happens to all quarterbacks.

 

 

Denver will regret hiring Gary Kubiak. Big, big mistake. If it weren't for Wade Philips' defense, Denver would easily be a 2-4 team right now. 

 

 

That team is bound to crash and burn once they start playing real teams and not these bad cupcake teams they're struggling against and can't win without defense bailing them out every single time. 

 

I hope he retires after this season. The hits he's been taken are scary, and it would be a shame to see someone his age take a bad injury. 

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Peyton is hanging on because of lifetime records - I understand that but he's one year past what he should have played and will only continue to go down in performance.  His mind will keep him/them in some of the games but his body is betraying him AND he's no longer playing in a system that lets his mind win the games for them.

 

I do not want to see him hurt - and I'm very afraid that's how things are going to end for him.

[Restored]

The funny thing is, Manning's arm strength isn't a whole more diminished than it was last year. The difference has been his decision making and adjusting to a whole new system and offensive line at age 39. He can still put as much mustard as he could in 2012, he's just lost some of the control he's had.

[RockThatBlue]

The Kubiak offense clearly doesn't work with Peyton at all but fact is Peyton is just not nearly as good as he used to be. He's making a lot more stupid decisions then he ever used too. And he's just terrible on deep balls, he did hit one yesterday with Sanders but his accuracy on those are just bad anymore.

[jvan1973]

Peyton's arm is weak and his mechanics are suffering because of it. They have to figure out a way to run the ball to keep them out of third and long. Haute watching him struggle like this

[amfootball]

I am not sure why Manning came back once Kubiak was hired. I think he understood after the post-season that this could be the result which is why I think he said he was not sure if he was going to come back. He has seemed to age a lot from last year to this year physically. Much more than I thought he would. I don't think there is an answer for Denver at this point. I think they ride the D for as long as they can. I believe the GB game will give them a good indication just far they can go.

[southwest1]

He's aged and hit the twilight of his career. Happens to all quarterbacks.

 

 

Denver will regret hiring Gary Kubiak. Big, big mistake. If it weren't for Wade Philips' defense, Denver would easily be a 2-4 team right now. 

 

 

That team is bound to crash and burn once they start playing real teams and not these bad cupcake teams they're struggling against and can't win without defense bailing them out every single time. 

 

I hope he retires after this season. The hits he's been taken are scary, and it would be a shame to see someone his age take a bad injury. 

Yes, that is true Bogie. Wade has done a spectacular job. I can't explain why Peyton's picks are higher than normal this time of year. To Manning's credit, he acknowledges that he's not playing his best football right now & I respect his honesty. 

 

That Derek Wolfe hit on Josh Mccown made me so mad not to mention the nice pass that Demarius Thomas that he dropped which would have put Denver in FG range. Eventually, Talib & the gang won't be able to rescue the Broncos offense. Yeah, I have a feeling that this season will be 18's last one in the NFL too. Hang in there Peyton. 

[crazycolt1]

Wasn't there something out not too long ago about him not having feeling in his finger tips since surgery?

I think I remember reading something in that regards. The thing is with this type of injury it comes and goes. Sometimes it's just a matter of moving your neck in certain ways. I do recall Manning did have nerve damage and that was reported when he was still with the Colts. I am sure not the one to give or suggest any advice to anyone but I feel like Manning is playing with fire so to say.

[18Manning]

Peyton is hanging on because of lifetime records - I understand that but he's one year past what he should have played and will only continue to go down in performance.  His mind will keep him/them in some of the games but his body is betraying him AND he's no longer playing in a system that lets his mind win the games for them.

 

I do not want to see him hurt - and I'm very afraid that's how things are going to end for him.

 

I don't think he's playing to achieve lifetime records. I believe it took some convincing by the Broncos for him to even come back. I've never met the man, but I'd be willing to bet he's not one playing to break records.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

I don't think he's playing to achieve lifetime records. I believe it took some convincing by the Broncos for him to even come back. I've never met the man, but I'd be willing to bet he's not one playing to break records.

I don't think that's his only reason - he would never start a season thinking he would jeopardize the chances of his team.  He obviously thought he would be an asset not a liability, but If he had already achieved the goals his calculation might have been different.

 

I do not mean any disrespect at mentioning his records - they are important and you don't play as long as he has without  wanting to leave your mark.

[Synthetic]

Yes, that is true Bogie. Wade has done a spectacular job. I can't explain why Peyton's picks are higher than normal this time of year. To Manning's credit, he acknowledges that he's not playing his best football right now & I respect his honesty. 

 

That Derek Wolfe hit on Josh Mccown made me so mad not to mention the nice pass that Demarius Thomas that he dropped which would have put Denver in FG range. Eventually, Talib & the gang won't be able to rescue the Broncos offense. Yeah, I have a feeling that this season will be 18's last one in the NFL too. Hang in there Peyton. 

 

 

Every QB in that age at the twilight of their career has INT problems. Favre had them his last year. Johnny Unitas in his Chargers days couldn't stop throwing them, etc etc. Warren Moon had some big trouble too in his Kansas City end of career days.

 

 

All I can say is, I remember when Brett Favre went down 5 years ago with that injury that killed his career at 40, and it's still one of the saddest things I ever seen in football. i don't want that to happen to Manning. Favre was, and still is my all time favorite QB and I didn't like seeing him go down like that. Wouldn't want it to happen to another future HoFer. 

[wig]

He's simply not very good anymore. He's nowhere near as good as in the pocket as he used to be, and his arm is completely shot. It happens to everyone. He's played one year too many and I hope it doesn't get too bad as the season goes on.

[southwest1]

Every QB in that age at the twilight of their career has INT problems. Favre had them his last year. Johnny Unitas in his Chargers days couldn't stop throwing them, etc etc. Warren Moon had some big trouble too in his Kansas City end of career days.

 

 

All I can say is, I remember when Brett Favre went down 5 years ago with that injury that killed his career at 40, and it's still one of the saddest things I ever seen in football. i don't want that to happen to Manning. Favre was, and still is my all time favorite QB and I didn't like seeing him go down like that. Wouldn't want it to happen to another future HoFer. 

I feel your pain man. It's a sad day when you realize that an iconic QB is truly done. It's like when a beloved friend or relative dies, you don't wanna remember their struggles just happier days when they could do nothing wrong. Even when Favre struggled that final year in Minnesota, I felt bad for the guy because I hated to see him go out like that. Despite my issues with Favre refusing to go to minicamp or even his INT numbers, I really admired him in 2009 because Brett took a lot of traitor nonsense rhetoric playing for an old division foe in NFC North & he was so darn close to going to his 3rd SB that year, I was actually rooting for him after that beating he took in the Championship Game. Brett was 1 tough hombre in 2009. Wow! Plus, I wanted a Manning vs Favre SB too. 

 

Yeah, Warren Moon never gets enough QB love either which always ticks me off. He throws a beautiful spiral on long passes. Man, it was pretty & he always had the perfect touch on it too. WRs or TEs rarely had to slow down catching the ball in stride too. 

 

I never watched Dan Fouts that much growing up, but man Phillip Rivers played a great game vs GB yesterday. Jesus, that game was exciting. I was torn because I like both Rivers & Rogers. Holy moly man! Oops you mentioned Unitas! My bad. LOL! I guess I had Fouts on my brain because Phillip just played amazing yesterday, broke a Fouts record recently, & I admire how tough & driven Phillip is. He just keeps pushing the ball downfield & Danny Woodhead is a beast too. Why NE let him go boggles my mind. I still don't get that one. 

 

During the GB broadcast, they mentioned that Philip's wife was pregnant with her 8th kid too. 8 kids! Is Philip trying to start his own sports team? Just Kidding! 

[crazycolt1]

I feel your pain man. It's a sad day when you realize that an iconic QB is truly done. It's like when a beloved friend or relative dies, you don't wanna remember their struggles just happier days when they could do no wrong. Even when Favre struggled that final year in Minnesota, I felt bad for the guy because I hated to see him go out like that. Despite my issues with Favre refusing to go to minicamp or even his INT numbers, I really admired him in 2009 because Brett took a lot of traitor nonsense rhetoric playing for an old division foe in NFC North & he was so darn close to going to his 3rd SB that year, I was actually rooting for him after that beating he took in the Championship Game. Brett was 1 tough hombre in 2009. Wow! Plus, I wanted a Manning vs Favre SB too. 

 

Yeah, Warren Moon never gets enough QB love either which always ticks me off. He throw a beautiful spiral on long passes. Man, it was pretty & he always had the perfect touch on it too. WRs or TEs rarely had to slow down catching the ball in stride too. 

 

I never watched Dan Fouts that much growing up, but man Phillip Rivers played a great game vs GB yesterday. Jesus, that game was exciting. I was torn because I like both Rivers & Rogers. Holy moly man! 

If you took Moon's records in Canada and added them to the numbers he had in the NFL he would be in the same category as all the other QBs that are considered great. The owners in those days were too scared to make a black man a QB because of the discrimination of a lot of the fan base with their total ignorance. In 1984 Moon was the highest paid QB at 1.1 million a year.  I got to watch Dan Fouts play the Colts in their first season in what was called the Hoosier Dome. The Chargers won 38-10. The Colts were still in the AFC at that time along with the Patriots, Dolphins, Jets and Bills. Frank Kush was the head coach. Gunther Cunningham was the defensive line coach. Rick Venturi was the LB coach.

[southwest1]

I don't think that's his only reason - he would never start a season thinking he would jeopardize the chances of his team.  He obviously thought he would be an asset not a liability, but If he had already achieved the goals his calculation might have been different.

 

I do not mean any disrespect at mentioning his records - they are important and you don't play as long as he has without  wanting to leave your mark.

You didn't disrespect Manning GAFT. You were just accurately pointing out as Bogie did that every career has a sunrise, prime in the limelight, & sunset. The Chargers will give Denver all they can handle I think. 

 

As Peyton struggles to put up 20 points on average this season, I don't know how he will match Rivers & Gates this year. A tough matchup to duplicate especially if Sanders shoulder injury is more severe in scope than anticipated. 

[oldunclemark]

I think it's all of the above...

I think you're right, 18...and the problem is...you cant fix ALL of those things easily.

this is the next to last pit stop...(assuming they get a bye in the post-season) .this 2 weeks...they don't get another break to make major changes (or to heal up)

[oldunclemark]

Peyton is hanging on because of lifetime records - I understand that but he's one year past what he should have played and will only continue to go down in performance.  His mind will keep him/them in some of the games but his body is betraying him AND he's no longer playing in a system that lets his mind win the games for them.

 

I do not want to see him hurt - and I'm very afraid that's how things are going to end for him.

I don't think Peyton is playing for records..he has so many...

What he lacks is Super Bowl titles..and I'm almost certain that's why he's still going.

Because Denver has a chance

[oldunclemark]

Peyton's arm is weak and his mechanics are suffering because of it. They have to figure out a way to run the ball to keep them out of third and long. Haute watching him struggle like this

Sunday's game at Cleveland was hard to watch...for the first 3 quarters...

My concern is that he either didn't recover from his leg problems last year or he was reinjured in the first couple of games.

When he plants his leg and throws he's often just inaccurate

[oldunclemark]

Every QB in that age at the twilight of their career has INT problems. Favre had them his last year. Johnny Unitas in his Chargers days couldn't stop throwing them, etc etc. Warren Moon had some big trouble too in his Kansas City end of career days.

 

 

All I can say is, I remember when Brett Favre went down 5 years ago with that injury that killed his career at 40, and it's still one of the saddest things I ever seen in football. i don't want that to happen to Manning. Favre was, and still is my all time favorite QB and I didn't like seeing him go down like that. Wouldn't want it to happen to another future HoFer.

But knowing you had an elite defense..would you hang on?

[IndyTrav]

I've unfortunately watched nearly every minute of Denver this season, and I still cannot figure out if its really Kubiaks offense bringing them down, or if its Peyton brining them down. It seems to be pretty trendy to blame Kubiak but Im just not sold on that being the case.....Peyton doesn't look mobile enough to be under center (his age and OL play), so they are doing it all in Pistol or Shotgun, and when they are in Pistol it looks to me like the RB is at minimum 7yds behind the LoS, sometimes 10yds....Defenses are daring them to throw the ball, and stacking everyone up front. RBs are having to beat the stacks, and run 7-10yds just to get to the LoS.....He is able to get the ball 20+yds downfield but its taking his entire body to do it. Hes throwing himself into every throw, reminds me of an old timey baseball pitcher that would wind all the way back and then thrust himself forward....That 1st pick to Dansby (the 2nd wasn't ness on Peyton) was a simple 15yd throw over the middle and he stepped into it, throwing with mostly his arm, and it was telegraphed, slow, and would have been either 2yds behind Sanders, or picked by the DB....

 

He's not going to get any better. He's already struggling, and I cannot get behind the "he will get better" or "hes saving himself"....Its a long season, and he's only 6 games in, played cupcakes, and it aint cold yet...This is gonna get ugly and its gonna get ugly quick....

 

Im watching him now, and can't help but think its Favre all over again. A nice previous year (NFC Champ Game) then completely fell off the face of the earth.... 

[2006Coltsbestever]

He will be ok, he's just pacing himself. It's such a long season and he's old so he is just going through the motions.