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What is wrong with Peyton Manning?


SilentHill

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Except the issue last year was not the defense. It was the offense which only put up 13 vs the Colts and then watched the Pats put up 45 the following week. That is why Fox/Gase were let go and Elway told Manning he was going to change everything to take the burden of the offense off of him. Problem is Manning can't run his offense and the personnel is just not there. They needed more time to build it with the Oline and run game ...

if Manning was truly hampered by injury, then why make the change? Their defense was good under Del Rio, but I never felt like he got the most out of the talent.

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if Manning was truly hampered by injury, then why make the change? Their defense was good under Del Rio, but I never felt like he got the most out of the talent.

I am not a Del Rio fan at all BUT he had a top 5 defense in 2012 and last year's defense was plenty good enough but the offense just fell apart at the end. It is hard to tell how much was Manning's injury or natural decline. This season he looks worse physically then he did in the Colts game so who knows for sure. If he is not able to get under center than it is futile for Denver to try to run. The run is telegraphed from the pistol or shotgun so there really is not much option left for Kubiak. But Gase was gone because Elway was bent on NOT having Manning run his Indy offense anymore and that has come back to bite him big time. I also think Elway and Fox did not see eye to eye on how the team should be coached so his release makes more sense.

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I am not a Del Rio fan at all BUT he had a top 5 defense in 2012 and last year's defense was plenty good enough but the offense just fell apart at the end. It is hard to tell how much was Manning's injury or natural decline. This season he looks worse physically then he did in the Colts game so who knows for sure. If he is not able to get under center than it is futile for Denver to try to run. The run is telegraphed from the pistol or shotgun so there really is not much option left for Kubiak. But Gase was gone because Elway was bent on NOT having Manning run his Indy offense anymore and that has come back to bite him big time. I also think Elway and Fox did not see eye to eye on how the team should be coached so his release makes more sense.

Hasn't really bit them big time as you say. They are 6-0. I'm guessing the offense looks much different after the bye

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I am not a Del Rio fan at all BUT he had a top 5 defense in 2012 and last year's defense was plenty good enough but the offense just fell apart at the end. It is hard to tell how much was Manning's injury or natural decline. This season he looks worse physically then he did in the Colts game so who knows for sure. If he is not able to get under center than it is futile for Denver to try to run. The run is telegraphed from the pistol or shotgun so there really is not much option left for Kubiak. But Gase was gone because Elway was bent on NOT having Manning run his Indy offense anymore and that has come back to bite him big time. I also think Elway and Fox did not see eye to eye on how the team should be coached so his release makes more sense.

Adam Gase was leaving after last season. He was almost head coach in SF, remember?

Elway just wants to win...and he's impatient

Last year's defense WAS good but it wasn't the intimidating defense they have now.

It was much more 'contain' and much less 'attack'..Its obvious the defense has more impact now

The turnovers and takeaways they're getting are significantly up over last year...

////I keep thinking that all the changes in the offensive line have crumbled what could have been. Kubiak's offense requires a top quality line, especially blocking for the run. The 'Peyton' offense actually did not...

..To me, Peyton is forcing passes and relying on just 2 receivers...He seems uncertain where the others will be.

I think the deeper they get into the season, if key people in the line (guards Mathis and Vasquez) get and stay healthy the

smoother they will be. We could see significant improvement coming off the bye week..

Peyton is 146 of 237 for 1,524 yards.....The 10 interceptions are bad but, without a strong run game, those numbers are not bad.

..and 6-0 is 6-0...and I'm pretty sure with 2 weeks off...you'll see better offensive play against GB next Sunday.

They needed the bye

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How do you see the offense being different?

Depends on what you believe. If you really believe he is washed up then I can see why you don't think the Offense will get better. I tend to agree with jvan. I think he cant play any worse and will get better as the season goes on, health permitting. Peyton is older but I find it hard to believe he can play mediocre to bad all season. We will find out when they play GB and NE.

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Depends on what you believe. If you really believe he is washed up then I can see why you don't think the Offense will get better. I tend to agree with jvan. I think he cant play any worse and will get better as the season goes on, health permitting. Peyton is older but I find it hard to believe he can play mediocre to bad all season. We will find out when they play GB and NE.

I believe Denver is in no man's land. I believe they would allow Manning to go back to his Indy offense but for 2 major reasons;

 

1) They don't have the personnel anymore

2) Manning can't make the throws anymore

 

So I really don't know what they do in the bye. Have to believe Brock is seeing a lot of reps to see if he can run Kubes offense. I don't foresee a change coming unless Manning gets hurt or they start losing games which is very possible given the tough schedule coming up after the bye.

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I believe Denver is in no man's land. I believe they would allow Manning to go back to his Indy offense but for 2 major reasons;

 

1) They don't have the personnel anymore

2) Manning can't make the throws anymore

 

So I really don't know what they do in the bye. Have to believe Brock is seeing a lot of reps to see if he can run Kubes offense. I don't foresee a change coming unless Manning gets hurt or they start losing games which is very possible given the tough schedule coming up after the bye.

Don't know why he couldn't make the throws....lots of short stuff in there.

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I believe Denver is in no man's land. I believe they would allow Manning to go back to his Indy offense but for 2 major reasons;

 

1) They don't have the personnel anymore

2) Manning can't make the throws anymore

But when you look at the past games...he can make the throws 'sometimes' which indicates to me that he's unsure of where everybody is going to be. He has a new TE and a new slot receiver.. Most of his interceptions have come on throws to Thomas and Sanders. so maybe he is targeting them too much..

....I'm surprised Owen Daniels and Jordan Norwood (slot) haven't done better but its only 6 games. Julius Thomas missed a lot of games last year. They really miss Wes Welker in the slot......

Daniels has been playing hurt....so have both guards..that's what gets better in the bye.

/// We all remember the 2010 stretch where Peyton threw 11 interceptions in 4 games...He got past it..

..but all the really big games are still to come....Green Bay, the Colts, Pitt, NE, Cincy and 2 with San Diego (both in the last 5 weeks)

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I believe Denver is in no man's land. I believe they would allow Manning to go back to his Indy offense but for 2 major reasons;

1) They don't have the personnel anymore

2) Manning can't make the throws anymore

So I really don't know what they do in the bye. Have to believe Brock is seeing a lot of reps to see if he can run Kubes offense. I don't foresee a change coming unless Manning gets hurt or they start losing games which is very possible given the tough schedule coming up after the bye.

Don't have the personnel? They have plenty of talent on offense to run the Indy offense and the skill players all know that offense. More shotguh, more short crossers. But it certainly hasn't bit them big time as you claimed

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But when you look at the past games...he can make the throws 'sometimes' which indicates to me that he's unsure of where everybody is going to be. He has a new TE and a new slot receiver.. Most of his interceptions have come on throws to Thomas and Sanders. so maybe he is targeting them too much..

....I'm surprised Owen Daniels and Jordan Norwood (slot) haven't done better but its only 6 games. Julius Thomas missed a lot of games last year. They really miss Wes Welker in the slot......

Daniels has been playing hurt....so have both guards..that's what gets better in the bye.

/// We all remember the 2010 stretch where Peyton threw 11 interceptions in 4 games...He got past it..

..but all the really big games are still to come....Green Bay, the Colts, Pitt, NE, Cincy and 2 with San Diego (both in the last 5 weeks)

 

This is one of the biggest problems that Kubiak has caused.  He has completely disrupted Manning's preparation routine which leads to not knowing where people are going to be.  The more he tries to protect Manning the more he destroys his rhythm. 

 

Hopefully, they are undoing all of the damage done and returning to what worked so well for them in the past.  Put Manning in shotgun, let him call the plays at the line of scrimmage based upon what the defense is doing, and that offense will look better in every way.  Basically, Kubiak has taken away everything that made Manning great and that is why he is having trouble.

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This is one of the biggest problems that Kubiak has caused.  He has completely disrupted Manning's preparation routine which leads to not knowing where people are going to be.  The more he tries to protect Manning the more he destroys his rhythm. 

 

Hopefully, they are undoing all of the damage done and returning to what worked so well for them in the past.  Put Manning in shotgun, let him call the plays at the line of scrimmage based upon what the defense is doing, and that offense will look better in every way.  Basically, Kubiak has taken away everything that made Manning great and that is why he is having trouble.

This ^^

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I'm telling you...Peyton is just rolling with this because they're undefeated. If they lose a game or 2 he'll completely tune Kubiak out. He's done it before. That coach happened to realize that that was best and not to much drama came of it, but it happened just the same.

What? So he is fine with having the second to last passer rating in the league?

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I didn't say he'd go ape...I said he'd tune him out and just run the offense. He's done that much before. Alot of good quarterbacks have.

He does not have the personnel anymore to run his offense. This was decided in the off-season and Manning was on board with it. That being said, what he is running now is a compromise/hybrid as they switched to it the second quarter of the KC game. He is running everything from the pistol and shotgun. That was not the case the first game and a half of the season. There really is not much more they can do with it at this point. If there was they would have already switched to it by now ...

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He does not have the personnel anymore to run his offense. This was decided in the off-season and Manning was on board with it. That being said, what he is running now is a compromise/hybrid as they switched to it the second quarter of the KC game. He is running everything from the pistol and shotgun. That was not the case the first game and a half of the season. There really is not much more they can do with it at this point. If there was they would have already switched to it by now ...

They're waiting until the Pats game to show what they got...  ;)  :P

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This is one of the biggest problems that Kubiak has caused.  He has completely disrupted Manning's preparation routine which leads to not knowing where people are going to be.  The more he tries to protect Manning the more he destroys his rhythm. 

 

Hopefully, they are undoing all of the damage done and returning to what worked so well for them in the past.  Put Manning in shotgun, let him call the plays at the line of scrimmage based upon what the defense is doing, and that offense will look better in every way.  Basically, Kubiak has taken away everything that made Manning great and that is why he is having trouble.

Blue.,.there's story on one of the Denver web sites that explains what may be the problem with Peyton.

Manning's 'offense' (which is Tom Moore's offense) is a slate of automatic options each receiver has depending on what the defense does....Manning obviously knows them all by heart and, by now, so does Thomas and Sanders and the other Broncos who have been there over a year. Peyton calls the formation and takes what the defense gives him as both QB and receiver 'read' the defense the same way.

Kubiak's offense has a different list of options from the SAME formation and the SAME defensive setup.

So when defenses blitz or make a late change in coverage.....Manning's instant 'read' in his mind (and sometimes that of the recievers) may be wrong because the offense has changed. They hesitate and the play has much less chance of working.

They could go back to the 'Manning' offense. Tight end Owen Daniels never played in that system but he isn't being targeted much anyway. The receivers would need a little time to 'switch back' but Manning, could go back to his old 'system' during a bye week

Its up to Kubiak.

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He does not have the personnel anymore to run his offense. This was decided in the off-season and Manning was on board with it. That being said, what he is running now is a compromise/hybrid as they switched to it the second quarter of the KC game. He is running everything from the pistol and shotgun. That was not the case the first game and a half of the season. There really is not much more they can do with it at this point. If there was they would have already switched to it by now ...

Please explain why they don't have the personnel?

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He does not have the personnel anymore to run his offense. This was decided in the off-season and Manning was on board with it. That being said, what he is running now is a compromise/hybrid as they switched to it the second quarter of the KC game. He is running everything from the pistol and shotgun. That was not the case the first game and a half of the season. There really is not much more they can do with it at this point. If there was they would have already switched to it by now ...

You mean like that year every starting WR and some of the backups got injured and they won all those games?

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You mean like that year every starting WR and some of the backups got injured and they won all those games?

Do you really believe Kubiak wants to see Manning and this offense fail? Do you think he would honestly hold back any offensive system or scheme at this point that would help them become better than the worst offense in football? I don't. I think he looks at his personnel and Manning's declining abilities and understands that this is the best they have got right now. I do expect to see some tweaks on Sunday as they have had the bye but after 6 weeks, the offense is most likely what it is. And Manning is not going to all of a sudden jump ship and tell Kubiak I am doing things my way. That is not Manning. He knows better than anyone what he is capable of and I am sure he and Kubiak talk all the time about what else they can do to make things better.

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Do you really believe Kubiak wants to see Manning and this offense fail? Do you think he would honestly hold back any offensive system or scheme at this point that would help them become better than the worst offense in football? I don't. I think he looks at his personnel and Manning's declining abilities and understands that this is the best they have got right now. I do expect to see some tweaks on Sunday as they have had the bye but after 6 weeks, the offense is most likely what it is. And Manning is not going to all of a sudden jump ship and tell Kubiak I am doing things my way. That is not Manning. He knows better than anyone what he is capable of and I am sure he and Kubiak talk all the time about what else they can do to make things better.

As long as the Broncos keep winning this type of Offense keeps Manning fresh and healthy. If Manning just lets loose like he has in the past he is more likely to be out of steam and more injury prone. That is why I used the pacing term a couple of weeks ago and it got laughed at but why would Manning want to run a hurry up Offense at his age, risk a better chance of getting injured, and have nothing left for the Playoffs when Denver can win most games with Defense? Manning at this point could care less about stats because the only thing it matters with him is what he does in the Playoffs. Heck he owns almost every record statistically already. All he wants to do is stay healthy and not be worn out carrying a team in the Regular Season.

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Do you really believe Kubiak wants to see Manning and this offense fail? Do you think he would honestly hold back any offensive system or scheme at this point that would help them become better than the worst offense in football? I don't. I think he looks at his personnel and Manning's declining abilities and understands that this is the best they have got right now. I do expect to see some tweaks on Sunday as they have had the bye but after 6 weeks, the offense is most likely what it is. And Manning is not going to all of a sudden jump ship and tell Kubiak I am doing things my way. That is not Manning. He knows better than anyone what he is capable of and I am sure he and Kubiak talk all the time about what else they can do to make things better.

They are apparently trying to hybrid the systems with the thinking that it will work when it matters and be more effective with added running prowess. Plus Kubiak is going to be coach after Manning retires and his system is his system. He and his OC dont know Manning's system. The hybrid is a work in progress...especially since the line has been shuffled almost every game.

Maybe they both think the hybrid will work better the more games they use it and, since they havent lost, there's no need to panic and revert to last year's ways.

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They are apparently trying to hybrid the systems with the thinking that it will work when it matters and be more effective with added running prowess. Plus Kubiak is going to be coach after Manning retires and his system is his system. He and his OC dont know Manning's system. The hybrid is a work in progress...especially since the line has been shuffled almost every game.

Maybe they both think the hybrid will work better the more games they use it and, since they havent lost, there's no need to panic and revert to last year's ways.

I agree Mark. It is not like you can just snap your fingers and insert a new offense. The sea change in thinking began last year with Denver when they began to alter the offense mid-season to become more run centric. Then in the off-season they hire Kubiak and tell Manning they will off-load the offense from him and become a Kubiak style offense that relies on the zone blocking and play actions and bootlegs.

 

They no longer have Julius Thomas or a legit slot guy to run Manning's Indy offense even if they wanted to and they also know that system won't work come the post-season hence the change in the off-season to begin with. This offense is not constructed to be what it was 2 years ago. I also think they may have misjudged Manning's decline and that has hurt more so than anything because the defenses have pinched up daring him to throw over them. This has hurt the run game the most in addition to everything being run from the pistol or shotgun which telegraphs the run.

 

I think you are right. They ride it out as long as they can and hope the wins keep rolling. There is no way Manning all of a sudden tells Kubiak we are doing things my way. That is just silly IMO. I believe they have been trying to find solutions from game one.

 

I do think the GB game is a litmus test for them in terms of seeing just how much O they can get away with and still be competitive/win and just how good the defense is against a top offense/QB.  For sure this is the game of the season. I am psyched to see how it goes.

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I agree Mark. It is not like you can just snap your fingers and insert a new offense. The sea change in thinking began last year with Denver when they began to alter the offense mid-season to become more run centric. Then in the off-season they hire Kubiak and tell Manning they will off-load the offense from him and become a Kubiak style offense that relies on the zone blocking and play actions and bootlegs.

They no longer have Julius Thomas or a legit slot guy to run Manning's Indy offense even if they wanted to and they also know that system won't work come the post-season hence the change in the off-season to begin with. This offense is not constructed to be what it was 2 years ago. I also think they may have misjudged Manning's decline and that has hurt more so than anything because the defenses have pinched up daring him to throw over them. This has hurt the run game the most in addition to everything being run from the pistol or shotgun which telegraphs the run.

I think you are right. They ride it out as long as they can and hope the wins keep rolling. There is no way Manning all of a sudden tells Kubiak we are doing things my way. That is just silly IMO. I believe they have been trying to find solutions from game one.

I do think the GB game is a litmus test for them in terms of seeing just how much O they can get away with and still be competitive/win and just how good the defense is against a top offense/QB. For sure this is the game of the season. I am psyched to see how it goes.

Are you going to explain why the personnel on the broncos can't run the Indy offense?

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I keep reading  a bunch of "Just wait" and "He'll turn it on when he has to".  

I don't buy into that train of thought.

I think he's just crossed that breaking point.   He knows what he wants to do, but doesn't have the strength or control to do it.   It must frustrate the heck out of him.  It would be similar to my Mom.   She had a stroke a few years back.   She cannot always say what she is trying to say.   Boy that irks her.   She keeps trying though.     

 

I don't know how true the reports are that mention that he has very little feeling in his hand.   That would certainly factor in. 

 

I think the type of offense being run also factors in to a point.  But given his ideal offense, Peyton isn't going to suddenly start throwing for 300+ yards an 4 TD's. 

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Do you really believe Kubiak wants to see Manning and this offense fail? Do you think he would honestly hold back any offensive system or scheme at this point that would help them become better than the worst offense in football? I don't. I think he looks at his personnel and Manning's declining abilities and understands that this is the best they have got right now. I do expect to see some tweaks on Sunday as they have had the bye but after 6 weeks, the offense is most likely what it is. And Manning is not going to all of a sudden jump ship and tell Kubiak I am doing things my way. That is not Manning. He knows better than anyone what he is capable of and I am sure he and Kubiak talk all the time about what else they can do to make things better.

I don't know how your first question/suggestion is what you get out of my post, and it certainly is Manning when it's necessary.

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