Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[ViriLudant]

Well, this was just plain stupid on his part to destroy his phone. It only makes him look more guilty. Those messages will come out now. The cellular carrier will have digital copies, and if and when it goes to Court, they will be subpoenaed, and Tom and Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum will be under oath.

It's about to get very interesting.

Again, Brady offered to provide the entire text message log to the NFL.

[Surge89]

Best post of the day! It really puts things into perspective....on so many levels. Makes one shake their head at the Patriots, Brady, and the league.

Lol you are quite delusional in your futile attempt to give a defense for the Patriots which Superman has knocked down repeatedly...

[ViriLudant]

Oh you never disappoint. I literally read through just to see your comments to see how clueless and blind the human race can actually be.

You are almost as deluded as Brady is self centered. That's quite amazing.

So this guy is going to be banned for a week, right ?

[amfootball]

The NFL tried to beat the union to the punch on Tuesday, filing a lawsuit against the NFLPA in New York seeking confirmation of the decision against Brady. It was a preemptive strike by the NFL, which knows the NFLPA likes to file lawsuits in Minnesota, where it has had a decent amount of success in fighting the league over the years.

 

But the NFLPA is reportedly set to file a lawsuit in Minneapolis, anyway, and all but outlined its legal strategy in its press release. The NFLPA will argue that: The NFL did not have a policy on its books that pertained to player discipline for a matter like this (only a team penalty that starts at $25,000); that the NFL made up its standard of “general awareness,” which does not appear anywhere in the CBA, to punish Brady; that the NFL had no procedures in place until this week to test the footballs; that Brady’s four-game punishment and $1.8 million in lost wages far exceed precedent (Brett Favre was given a $50,000 fine for not cooperating, and the Panthers and Vikings were let off with a warning last December); and that the appeals process was inherently stacked against Brady, with Goodell lacking impartiality as the appeal officer.

Brady’s agent, Don Yee, outlined a similar sentiment in his own statement.

“The appeal process was a sham, resulting in the commissioner rubber-stamping his own decision,” Yee said. “The commissioner’s decision and discipline has no precedent in all of NFL history . . . The decision is wrong and has no basis, and it diminishes the integrity of the game.”

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/28/tom-brady-with-nothing-lose-should-take-nfl-court/Xti1APTZjHeshDxI7uhtDJ/story.html

[Gramz]

Again, Brady offered to provide the entire text message log to the NFL.

This is the first I've heard of this. Do you have proof?

[amfootball]

This is the first I've heard of this. Do you have proof?

Yee said it. Read his statement. Not sure of the printed texts but he said Brady provided his electronic communications during the appeal that Roger ignored.

 

"Finally, as to the issue of cooperation, we presented the Commissioner with an unprecedented amount of electronic data, all of which is incontrovertible. I do not think that any private citizen would have agreed to provide anyone with the amount of information that Tom was willing to reveal to the Commissioner. Tom was completely transparent. All of the electronic information was ignored; we don’t know why. The extent to which Tom opened up his private life to the Commissioner will become clear in the coming days.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/172566/tom-bradys-agent-don-yee-rips-nfl-in-strongly-worded-statement

[Gramz]

Yee said it. Read his statement. Not sure of the printed texts but he said Brady provided his electronic communications during the appeal that Roger ignored.

Nothing Yee has said so far has happened....

[amfootball]

Nothing Yee has said so far has happened....

Huh? Yee has not sad anything since the report first came out.

[wig]

I think there is a fair amount circulating about the league letting this get this far. To not to have come to a settlement is atrocious on their part. But it is what it is. I was not expecting it as this looong ago stopped being about air pressure in footballs. They apparently wanted the court case and they have it now for better or for worse.

Brady wouldn't settle for anything that included a suspension, and it's the league's fault?

You just get better and better on the subject.

[Superman]

Yee said it. 

 

No he didn't.

[Superman]

Again, Brady offered to provide the entire text message log to the NFL.

 

No he didn't.

[Lawrence Owen]

Somewhere, there is a federal judge who has  followed this thinking,"PLEASE assign me to this case."

[NFLfan]

The Court will say asking for his personal private messages are reaching too far for the NFL and it is beyond their right in determing and investigation on its employes....that Brady complied with everything else but his messages and his phone that are private the NFL has no right to. This isn't like tweets or facebook etc...these are private. So they will say he did comply with the leagues "reasonable requests" even though he denied their unreasonable requests. The only thing that could save the NFL is if the court deems those texts the NFL already had was public knowledge and that those weren't private perhaps. I just find it difficult that a Court will rule on the behalf of the employer...they typically protect private individuals and employee rights.

If a client accuses you of sending him threatening messages, would you find it unreasonable for your boss to ask you to see messages that you exchanged with that client?

I don't find it unreasonable at all for the NFL to ask Brady to cooperate with the investigation by sharing the messages he exchanged with the two clubhouse guys. In many of your posts you are giving Brady the benefit of the doubt, claiming he cooperated fully when interviewed. How can you be so sure of that? It is clear that he did not fully cooperate.

[amfootball]

No he didn't.

I just posted this from Yee maybe you missed it.

 

"Finally, as to the issue of cooperation, we presented the Commissioner with an unprecedented amount of electronic data, all of which is incontrovertible. I do not think that any private citizen would have agreed to provide anyone with the amount of information that Tom was willing to reveal to the Commissioner. Tom was completely transparent. All of the electronic information was ignored; we don’t know why. The extent to which Tom opened up his private life to the Commissioner will become clear in the coming days.

[Superman]

I just posted this from Yee maybe you missed it.

 

"Finally, as to the issue of cooperation, we presented the Commissioner with an unprecedented amount of electronic data, all of which is incontrovertible. I do not think that any private citizen would have agreed to provide anyone with the amount of information that Tom was willing to reveal to the Commissioner. Tom was completely transparent. All of the electronic information was ignored; we don’t know why. The extent to which Tom opened up his private life to the Commissioner will become clear in the coming days.

 

No I didn't miss it. Nothing in that statement states, suggests, or even implies that that Brady offered printouts of all the text messages from his phone.

 

Try again?

[amfootball]

No I didn't miss it. Nothing in that statement states, suggests, or even implies that that Brady offered printouts of all the text messages from his phone.

 

Try again?

I said in my original post that there was nothing about printing all his text messages but the point remains that according to Yee Brady provided a ton of electronic data that he will be sharing in the coming days.

[Gramz]

I just posted this from Yee maybe you missed it.

"Finally, as to the issue of cooperation, we presented the Commissioner with an unprecedented amount of electronic data, all of which is incontrovertible. I do not think that any private citizen would have agreed to provide anyone with the amount of information that Tom was willing to reveal to the Commissioner. Tom was completely transparent. All of the electronic information was ignored; we don’t know why. The extent to which Tom opened up his private life to the Commissioner will become clear in the coming days.

He wasn't interested in his private life. I am guessing if that's all he offered, that's the reason it was ignored.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Yee said it. Read his statement. Not sure of the printed texts but he said Brady provided his electronic communications during the appeal that Roger ignored.

 

"Finally, as to the issue of cooperation, we presented the Commissioner with an unprecedented amount of electronic data, all of which is incontrovertible. I do not think that any private citizen would have agreed to provide anyone with the amount of information that Tom was willing to reveal to the Commissioner. Tom was completely transparent. All of the electronic information was ignored; we don’t know why. The extent to which Tom opened up his private life to the Commissioner will become clear in the coming days.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/172566/tom-bradys-agent-don-yee-rips-nfl-in-strongly-worded-statement

You mean like Hillary Clinton gave "ALL" her emails to the State Department then deleted the rest, deciding for herself which were relevant or not?  Oh and then the committee was given quite a few of her work product emails by Sidney Blumenthal that she hadn't turned in?  Got it.  

 

When you are under investigation, you don't get to decide what is and isn't relevant.  Especially when your team has a prior offense.  

 

Playing football is a privilege not a right.  Representing the NFL is a privilege not a right. 

[amfootball]

He wasn't interested in his private life. I am guessing if that's all he offered, that's the reason it was ignored.

Or maybe he ignored it because there was NOTHING there related to deflated footballs which is what he and Wells were scrounging for from the get go.

[amfootball]

You mean like Hillary Clinton gave "ALL" her emails to the State Department then deleted the rest, deciding for herself which were relevant or not?  Oh and then the committee was given quite a few of her work product emails by Sidney Blumenthal that she hadn't turned in?  Got it.  

 

When you are under investigation, you don't get to decide what is and isn't relevant.  Especially when your team has a prior offense.  

 

Playing football is a privilege not a right.  Representing the NFL is a privilege not a right. 

I have no idea. We will see with what Yee shares but I don't trust the NFL one iota on any of this ...

[Superman]

I can't find a version of Goodell's summary that I can copy/paste from, and I don't feel like typing this out, but if you follow the link, on Page 12, footnote #11 on the bottom of the page states that after confirming that the phone had been destroyed and that the carrier wouldn't be able to retrieve the messages, Brady's agents offered a spreadsheet of every number Brady had texted with from that phone. That way, the NFL could track down all the people Brady had texted, and ask them to make their messages available to the NFL.

 

So, in February/March, Brady declined to give the NFL access to his messages, then destroyed the phone. But in June, he wants the NFL to ask numerous people for access their messages.

 

You guys are calling this a log of all his messages???

 

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/07282015-final-decision-tom-brady-appeal.pdf

[Superman]

there was nothing about printing all his text messages

 

Precisely.

[NewColtsFan]

Here's ESPN Legal Analyst Lester Munson in a story about how and why Tom Brady's legal challenge is likely going to fail.

 

Not a very long story and makes for interesting reading......

 

 

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13332578/new-england-patriots-quarterback-tom-brady-nflpa-likely-come-short-court-challenge-roger-goodell-decision

[ColtRider]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why the NFL would be so preoccupied with making Brady and the Patriots look bad... How does that benefit the league?

The only reasonable explanation to me would be to make an example out of the Patriots. Prior history of breaking the rules with SpyGate and now DeFlateGate could cause the NFL to set a higher standard of (here we go) "Integrity of the Game". What better way to send a clear, precise, unmitigated message than punish it's most profound QB and franchise.

However, like you've stated Superman, the courts get into the picture and obliterate the NFL disciplinary actions. Doesn't make one ounce of sense to me. In corporate America under the governing statutes of singling out discipline for this type of violation would be extremely difficult to overturn. Employees get fired everyday for all kinds of company policies that point to dismissal. Most deserve it when it comes to "non- cooperation", "destruction of evidence", "hiding to cover-up", and of course lying about all of it.

This kind of "hiding under Mama's skirt" i.e., the courts, to avoid paying up for violations has to end. And it has to end, NOW! This is the kind of stuff that makes me completely sick to my stomach. Grow up. Be a man. Take your medicine. And quit trying to pass your transgressions to others by way of the court system.

[Coltsman1788]

This does not surprise me at all. I am just curious if Brady thinks by him destroying his cell phone that the information cant be retrieved.

As I'm sure you already know...destroying the phone only shielded the incriminating data from the NFL's investigation as the league acting as employers don't have supoena power to demand texts from the phone carrier's database. However, now that Brady is taking this to federal court,  NFL lawyers will very likely be able to request this information.  Not very smart of Brady to keep carrying on this charade.  He is just looking worse as this process drags on and we discover more and more.  I am kind of hoping the court grants Brady an injunction allowing him to play most of the season but then upholds the NFL ruling right before the playoffs start causing him to miss the post season.  It would serve Brady right for carrying on this farce to this point. 

[DougDew]

The statement by Brady's attorney/agent is laughably obvious.  He should be kicked out of any future meetings with Goodell, who's intelligence should be insulted by the statement.

 

"Brady provided an unprecedented amount of electronic data to the NFL, all of which is incontrivirtible"

 

Translation:

 

Tom gave the NFL all 10,000 sentences that made no mention of him wanting or knowing about the balls being deflated...but didn't give up the 5 sentences that proves he did."

[pgt_rob]

rtBreer 5m5 minutes ago

Statement from the Patriots (no name attached) pic.twitter.com/e16r6ysiKQ

What made him so great? Oh yeah, the cheating that excelled him. I don't think he's one of the greats anymore. He is forever tarnished and I'm glad the NFL is holding ground. I hope he gets squashed in court for the whole world to see.

[bababooey]

I think there is a fair amount circulating about the league letting this get this far. To not to have come to a settlement is atrocious on their part. But it is what it is. I was not expecting it as this looong ago stopped being about air pressure in footballs. They apparently wanted the court case and they have it now for better or for worse.

The settlement is you got caught cheating, lied about it, didn't cooperate, and got suspended and should be suspended. Pretty simple. Try doing what he did at your job and see how that works out for you.

Edited July 29, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[21isSuperman]

You know what's really funny?  If Brady had actually admitted to being the cheating, disingenuous, arrogant, crybaby that he is, he would have probably just gotten a slap on the wrist.  Instead, he throws a temper tantrum that would make a 3 year old blush, gets his legacy tarnished and questioned even more, and has made this so much bigger than it needed to be.  I guess lie, cheat, steal is the only way he knows how to do things.  It's kinda sad, really.  Even the most unintelligent buffoon would have known to admit it before it went too far.  Instead, he has made his boss, Robert Kraft, look like a complete ignoramus for saying he expects an apology from the league, and has tarnished what he accomplished*.  When people say Tom Brady now, they no longer think "winner", they think "cheater".

[ViriLudant]

The statement by Brady's attorney/agent is laughably obvious. He should be kicked out of any future meetings with Goodell, who's intelligence should be insulted by the statement.

"Brady provided an unprecedented amount of electronic data to the NFL, all of which is incontrivirtible"

Translation:

Tom gave the NFL all 10,000 sentences that made no mention of him wanting or knowing about the balls being deflated...but didn't give up the 5 sentences that proves he did."

Just out of curiosity, how is that any different than if Brady had handed over his phone ?

You would simply say that Brady deleted the texts.

[21isSuperman]

Please let me be the first to award Tom Brady with his replacement Super Bowl ring

 

Careful with the ring, Tom.  It doesn't have much integrity, so if you put even a little bit of pressure on it, it might completely crumble and look really stupid.....

[ViriLudant]

What made him so great? Oh yeah, the cheating that excelled him. I don't think he's one of the greats anymore. He is forever tarnished and I'm glad the NFL is holding ground. I hope he gets squashed in court for the whole world to see.

Now I know why so many have left this board over the years.

28-0 in the second half .

Please. If you honestly think that this PSI issue, which has already been crushed by numerous scientific groups , will tarnish Brady, I'd simply point to Elway, whose team cheated in a much worse manner. How's his legacy?

[Superman]

Nor was it illegal for him to lie and say it was protocol to destroy it.  Nor was it illegal to destroy it within a day from being asked to provide texts relating to the investigation. BTW... keep embellishing. No one asked him to "turn over his cell phone>" But so what ? What's your point ? 

 

Read through the summary a bit more. Pretty interesting. Goodell refutes pretty much every claim that's being made against this ruling.

 

1) He considers undermining competitive balance and the refs' ability to do their job as on par with PEDs, and applied a similar, if not more lenient, punishment to Brady. Similar suspensions for conduct detrimental were given to the Browns GM (who self-reported and fully cooperated), Joe Vitt and Sean Payton. In light of this, he considers four games "not excessive or without precedent, and is in fact fair and reasonable." 

 

2) He says the issues with Brett Favre, the Vikings in 2014 and the Jets in 2009 are of an entirely different nature, weren't carried out by a player, and never impacted the game.

 

3) He says the Game Operations Manual doesn't limit discipline to a fine, and that's not a reasonable reading of the rule.

 

4) Details of the phone being destroyed: The meeting between Brady and investigators was scheduled as of 2/28, to be held on 3/6; the investigators reiterated their previous request for access to emails and text messages; that meeting was confirmed with Brady and his reps 3/3; on 3/5 or 3/6, the phone was destroyed; on 6/18, days before the appeal hearing on 6/23, Brady's reps confirmed that the phone had been destroyed and the messages were irretrievable, and claim that this is normal practice for Brady with his phones; the day before the appeal hearing, the NFLPA submitted a report from a forensic investigator saying that he had reviewed an even older phone from Brady... This all adds up to Goodell believing that Brady lied about why he destroyed the phone, informing his belief that Brady had reason to not provide access to his phone.

 

There's more. It seems like all the ways the NFLPA is going to try to shake this ruling have been preempted by Goodell and his ruling. Was it unfair? No. Was it without precedent? No. The NFL feels like they've presented a firm case.

[21isSuperman]

Now I know why so many have left this board over the years.

28-0 in the second half .

Please. If you honestly think that this PSI issue, which has already been crushed by numerous scientific groups , will tarnish Brady, I'd simply point to Elway, whose team cheated in a much worse manner. How's his legacy?

No one with any logic would say that the deflated footballs are the reason the Pats beat the Colts in the AFC Championship Game.

 

The flow is pretty simple here:

There are rules in place (for several reasons) -> Tom Brady knowingly broke at least one of those rules -> Tom Brady denied breaking any rule multiple times -> Tom Brady went out of his way to not co-operate with the investigation and to destroy the phone that was requested by the investigators -> Tom Brady gets punished for breaking a rule

 

This isn't just about the one game.  It's about knowingly breaking a rule

[BloodyChamp]

The bit about how private citizens wouldn't hand over their texts...that may be true but only because almost every private citizen has something in their phone that could be used against them. A sext message, a mysterious number that isn't mysterious to the 2 people cheating together, even an "Imma kill that ***" frustration text, etc. Football players are no different. Therefore the fact that every private citizen wouldn't hand over their texts only proves how Brady is just as insecure and shady as the average loser, not that he's as innocent as the average citizen.

[Superman]

The statement by Brady's attorney/agent is laughably obvious.  He should be kicked out of any future meetings with Goodell, who's intelligence should be insulted by the statement.

 

"Brady provided an unprecedented amount of electronic data to the NFL, all of which is incontrivirtible"

 

Translation:

 

Tom gave the NFL all 10,000 sentences that made no mention of him wanting or knowing about the balls being deflated...but didn't give up the 5 sentences that proves he did."

 

He didn't give the NFL any messages.

[bababooey]

Now I know why so many have left this board over the years.

28-0 in the second half .

Please. If you honestly think that this PSI issue, which has already been crushed by numerous scientific groups , will tarnish Brady, I'd simply point to Elway, whose team cheated in a much worse manner. How's his legacy?

I just got BINGO in patriots fan deflection BINGO

Edited July 29, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[John Waylon]

lol.

 

Is Brady and his camp serious here?

 

loooooooooooool.

[csmopar]

Thats a pretty disgusting scenerio...putting Tom in that hypothetical is just wrong...he doesn't deserve that. I think you could use a much more tasteful scenerio to make your point. I know what your saying and I tried to ask the same question earlier in a different manner to no avail but let's not drag Tom down to that gross level. At worst here we are dealing with someone that was deceitful and trying to cover it up....something many many do every day when they get caught in a lie....not to condone or say its right...but man that scenerio is just horrible to even imagine.

It is disgusting. While I don't feel Tom would ever do that, I'm more interested in knowing just where the line is as far as am defending him. Everytime proof as to his wrong doing is given, shecomes back with some nonsense defending him. I'm just curious where she draws the line if at all

[weslo1812]

You know what's really funny? If Brady had actually admitted to being the cheating, disingenuous, arrogant, crybaby that he is, he would have probably just gotten a slap on the wrist. Instead, he throws a temper tantrum that would make a 3 year old blush, gets his legacy tarnished and questioned even more, and has made this so much bigger than it needed to be. I guess lie, cheat, steal is the only way he knows how to do things. It's kinda sad, really. Even the most unintelligent buffoon would have known to admit it before it went too far. Instead, he has made his boss, Robert Kraft, look like a complete ignoramus for saying he expects an apology from the league, and has tarnished what he accomplished*. When people say Tom Brady now, they no longer think "winner", they think "cheater".

Yep... that last line is key!!! A whole lot more likely than not his reputation will have cheater behind it. A great player of the game gonna have his reputation permanently ruined and legacy tarnished cause he couldn't simply be forthright and honest.