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IndyD4U

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It won't in court I believe. I always believed commish would hold to 4 games. Although I do love the fact that the optics of this look horrible for the league with Hardy at 4 games for DV. Only Roger ...

Nonsense. The other day you were saying the league want to avoid court. Your position changes with the wind.

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In all seriousness, we knew the league would hold to 4 games. Should only help Brady in court.

I think Brady will win his case...but don't think there was no wrong doing done and that he had nothing to do with it. Is that what your feelings are or do you think he is innocent and being framed? Just wondering? The circumstancial evidence isn't exactly conclusive and I want to believe somehow Brady wasn't involved but man his actions just make it hard to believe. It would be a lot easier to just clear his name and restore his reputation than how he is handling this.

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It won't in court I believe. I always believed commish would hold to 4 games. Although I do love the fact that the optics of this look horrible for the league with Hardy at 4 games for DV. Only Roger ...

It does look bad but Roger put him on the Commish list for a year...than tried to suspend him for 10 games the next year....it isn't his fault it was over turned. As it is Hardy couldn't play for 19 games....and it wasn't like he wasn't trying for more. I think this gets over turned too but that doesn't mean he wasn't trying to do the right thing. The Pats situation stinks to high heaven but that doesn't mean he can get it to stick. That said it doesn't also mean Brady has cleared his name either.

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I think Brady will win his case...but don't think there was no wrong doing done and that he had nothing to do with it. Is that what your feelings are or do you think he is innocent and being framed? Just wondering? The circumstancial evidence isn't exactly conclusive and I want to believe somehow Brady wasn't involved but man his actions just make it hard to believe. It would be a lot easier to just clear his name and restore his reputation than how he is handling this.

How do you figure...???    I believe he's already Lost.  BIG TIME.   I don't think he even has a case, and he just keeps making things worse for himself.

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I meant the NFL suing Brady, or the court process in general.  I was just curious to see if the courts could do anything more, like give Brady a 6 game suspension.  But since that has to do with his employer and not the legal system, it makes sense that they can't.  However, if they could tie it to some legal point (maybe something about compromising integrity of a business or undermining competition or something), they could do something more.

 

Yah I do not see how the court can increase the suspension.  What you are basically asking the court to do is to increase the damage to the plaintiff Brady.  Not sure how you can do that in a case like this, basically a garden variety suit by the plaintiff.  Essentially, either the defendant did not do wrong, and its the status quo, or the plaintiff is entitled to some relief. 

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I don't understand this from either side.

 

It doesn't make any sense to me either. Why would the NFL offer a settlement if Brady admitted to destroying the phone during the hearing? And why wouldn't Brady take the 1 game if only to help his team?

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It does look bad but Roger put him on the Commish list for a year...than tried to suspend him for 10 games the next year....it isn't his fault it was over turned. As it is Hardy couldn't play for 19 games....and it wasn't like he wasn't trying for more. I think this gets over turned too but that doesn't mean he wasn't trying to do the right thing. The Pats situation stinks to high heaven but that doesn't mean he can get it to stick. That said it doesn't also mean Brady has cleared his name either.

 

That Greg Hardy line is the laziest argument ever.

 

1) As you said, the NFL suspended Hardy for 10 games. An arbitrator reduced the suspension.

 

2) Martha Stewart spent more time in jail than Ray Rice, so that must mean the legal system thinks insider trading is "worse" than domestic violence, right? Except that's not how any of this works.

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Anyone that continues to defend him, whether it be his * Agent,  * Lawyer, or *s fans... tells me all I need to know about them.

Lots of people defended Lance Armstrong and Pete Rose and others because they WANT to believe they didn't do the horrible thing....because they have been inspired by them or it would ruin memories for them but that doesn't change in my mind who the people are...they are just in denial or simply being close minded....but eventually everyone comes around in time....when the truth is revealed.

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How do you figure...???    I believe he's already Lost.  BIG TIME.   I don't think he even has a case, and he just keeps making things worse for himself.

The Court will say asking for his personal private messages are reaching too far for the NFL and it is beyond their right in determing and investigation on its employes....that Brady complied with everything else but his messages and his phone that are private the NFL has no right to. This isn't like tweets or facebook etc...these are private. So they will say he did comply with the leagues "reasonable requests" even though he denied their unreasonable requests. The only thing that could save the NFL is if the court deems those texts the NFL already had was public knowledge and that those weren't private perhaps. I just find it difficult that a Court will rule on the behalf of the employer...they typically protect private individuals and employee rights.

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because it is all or nothing in court. And a judge would be much more likely to uphold 2 games as opposed to 4 which is ridiculous for this "offense."

" ridiculous for this "offense" "...

Non-cooperation in an investigation. Destruction of evidence. Trying to cover-up said evidence. Lying about all three.

Are you kidding me? Brady should feel extremely fortunate and thankful it wasn't more harsh. Nevermind the actual infraction itself.

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What you're describing here is a criminal matter.

A more close scenario would be that ot a marriage or even a business partnership breaking up.

 

It is both civil and criminal, as we are talking about civil matters here (i.e. Brady suing the NFL), I naturally thought you would not worry about the criminal side. 

 

Point being if you can not work for say 5 months and loose wages, I owe you money at some level for those lost wages.  You then take me to court to get your lost wages from me, and you would do so in civil (money remedy) court.

 

Yes you could also go down to your district court and fill out a criminal complaint, but that is not pertinent to this discussion. 

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It doesn't make any sense to me either. Why would the NFL offer a settlement if Brady admitted to destroying the phone during the hearing? And why wouldn't Brady take the 1 game if only to help his team?

 

I have said from the beginning that I don't think Brady will serve a single game of his suspension. By the time all is said and done, I think we'll be left with the same result as Bountygate: 'We know they did what you said they did, but we're getting rid of the suspension anyways, just because.' Too many legal loopholes, most of which favor the accused, particularly when there's a union involved. I still believe Brady doesn't wind up missing any games, ever.

 

What I don't get is why Brady's side would be insistent on a sealed file if he really didn't do anything wrong. And that insistence doesn't really jive with turning around and filing suit in federal court, where everything will be open to the public, and potentially even more information could be uncovered. 

 

And then the NFL, why think about reducing it if you think four games is still appropriate? 

 

I tend to think "moving close to a 1 game suspension" is a bit of a reach. I think maybe Brady's side made a new offer recently, and the NFL considered it before rejecting it.

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The Court will say asking for his personal private messages are reaching too far for the NFL and it is beyond their right in determing and investigation on its employes....that Brady complied with everything else but his messages and his phone that are private the NFL has no right to. This isn't like tweets or facebook etc...these are private. So they will say he did comply with the leagues "reasonable requests" even though he denied their unreasonable requests. The only thing that could save the NFL is if the court deems those texts the NFL already had was public knowledge and that those weren't private perhaps. I just find it difficult that a Court will rule on the behalf of the employer...they typically protect private individuals and employee rights.

except they didn't ask for his phone, just the messages relevant to the case.

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It is both civil and criminal, as we are talking about civil matters here (i.e. Brady suing the NFL), I naturally thought you would not worry about the criminal side. 

 

Point being if you can not work for say 5 months and loose wages, I owe you money at some level for those lost wages.  You then take me to court to get your lost wages from me, and you would do so in civil (money remedy) court.

 

Yes you could also go down to your district court and fill out a criminal complaint, but that is not pertinent to this discussion. 

 

There's nothing criminal about Brady v NFL.

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The Court will say asking for his personal private messages are reaching too far for the NFL and it is beyond their right in determing and investigation on its employes....that Brady complied with everything else but his messages and his phone that are private the NFL has no right to. This isn't like tweets or facebook etc...these are private. So they will say he did comply with the leagues "reasonable requests" even though he denied their unreasonable requests. The only thing that could save the NFL is if the court deems those texts the NFL already had was public knowledge and that those weren't private perhaps. I just find it difficult that a Court will rule on the behalf of the employer...they typically protect private individuals and employee rights.

Correction:  They only asked for messages pertinent to the investigation.  There is a big difference.    No reasonable explanation for him not cooperating....   He did Not cooperate with this part of the investigation and he admitted that he destroyed his phone.  This is only going to hurt his case.

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I have said from the beginning that I don't think Brady will serve a single game of his suspension. By the time all is said and done, I think we'll be left with the same result as Bountygate: 'We know they did what you said they did, but we're getting rid of the suspension anyways, just because.' Too many legal loopholes, most of which favor the accused, particularly when there's a union involved. I still believe Brady doesn't wind up missing any games, ever.

 

What I don't get is why Brady's side would be insistent on a sealed file if he really didn't do anything wrong. And that insistence doesn't really jive with turning around and filing suit in federal court, where everything will be open to the public, and potentially even more information could be uncovered. 

 

And then the NFL, why think about reducing it if you think four games is still appropriate? 

 

I tend to think "moving close to a 1 game suspension" is a bit of a reach. I think maybe Brady's side made a new offer recently, and the NFL considered it before rejecting it.

 

It's not true, apparently.

 

Any report that suggests two sides were coming close on a settlement in the Brady matter is rubbish. Plain and simple, rubbish.

— George Atallah (@GeorgeAtallah)

July 28, 2015
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It's not true, apparently.

 

Any report that suggests two sides were coming close on a settlement in the Brady matter is rubbish. Plain and simple, rubbish.

— George Atallah (@GeorgeAtallah)

July 28, 2015

Yeah, that much is blatantly obvious. One game. LOL. Never was in the cards NFL is dug in too far on this one ... on to court.

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It won't in court I believe. I always believed commish would hold to 4 games. Although I do love the fact that the optics of this look horrible for the league with Hardy at 4 games for DV. Only Roger ...

Roger is not the one that knock down Hardy's suspension to 4 games, they are also completly different situations from a disiplinary matter. However, I doubt any facts will dissuade you from your fanboy obsession with TB.

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You sure do love to overcomplicate things.

 

Two people who are married but filing for divorce can file separately in different states. They would do so because one state is more favorable to one side than the other. For instance, one state yields to prenups, but another state is prone to rip up a prenup and institute it's own ruling instead. 

 

This is not unlike that. 

 

No its not like a divorce as each party has a case against the other party, i.e. the husband has cause of action against the wife and the wife has a cause of action against the husband, each one can independently file in a court and in a few locations.

 

But the NFL does not have a cause of action against Brady.  The only thing I think they can file is a declaratory judgment, but once the actual civil suit is filed by Brady, not sure why the court with the declaratory judgment would try to hold on to it.  It not like its near the end of a statute of limitations and a defendant wants a ruling on the matter.  The defendant did the "damage" and 15 minutes later is filing paperwork. 

 

Like I said before it will be interesting to see how this plays out. 

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The Court will say asking for his personal private messages are reaching too far for the NFL and it is beyond their right in determing and investigation on its employes....that Brady complied with everything else but his messages and his phone that are private the NFL has no right to. This isn't like tweets or facebook etc...these are private. So they will say he did comply with the leagues "reasonable requests" even though he denied their unreasonable requests. The only thing that could save the NFL is if the court deems those texts the NFL already had was public knowledge and that those weren't private perhaps. I just find it difficult that a Court will rule on the behalf of the employer...they typically protect private individuals and employee rights.

 

The NFL doesn't have a right to Brady's messages. Brady has a right to deny the NFL access to his messages.

 

The problem is that you seem to think that the NFL even requesting to see his messages is an overreach, and that's just ludicrous. They can ask for whatever they want, without infringing upon his rights. He still has the right to deny them access. Rights upheld. However, they can take his refusal under consideration, especially if they felt they made considerable concessions in their request. And that's even more true when they find out that he destroyed the phone.

 

It's like you applying for a job, and they request medical records and drug testing. You decline, and eventually tell them that you destroyed your medical records and can't provide them even if you wante. They say okay. Then they tell you they aren't hiring you. They didn't infringe upon your rights by requesting that information, nor did they infringe upon your rights by not hiring you. 

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No its not like a divorce as each party has a case against the other party, i.e. the husband has cause of action against the wife and the wife has a cause of action against the husband, each one can independently file in a court and in a few locations.

 

But the NFL does not have a cause of action against Brady.  The only thing I think they can file is a declaratory judgment, but once the actual civil suit is filed by Brady, not sure why the court with the declaratory judgment would try to hold on to it.  It not like its near the end of a statute of limitations and a defendant wants a ruling on the matter.  The defendant did the "damage" and 15 minutes later is filing paperwork. 

 

Like I said before it will be interesting to see how this plays out. 

 

The NFL isn't filing against Brady. They're asking for their suspension to be confirmed. There are no damages at this point.

 

The damages will be alleged at the point when the NFLPA files on Brady's behalf against the NFL.

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How come?

 

He intentionally worded it ambiguously. 

 

He says they weren't close to a settlement. Which, can mean basically anything depending on how you define close. But he doesn't deny a settlement was attempted by both sides.

 

Also, he represents Brady and the confirmation of an attempted settlement would basically confirm guilt. 

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I have said from the beginning that I don't think Brady will serve a single game of his suspension. By the time all is said and done, I think we'll be left with the same result as Bountygate: 'We know they did what you said they did, but we're getting rid of the suspension anyways, just because.' Too many legal loopholes, most of which favor the accused, particularly when there's a union involved. I still believe Brady doesn't wind up missing any games, ever.

 

What I don't get is why Brady's side would be insistent on a sealed file if he really didn't do anything wrong. And that insistence doesn't really jive with turning around and filing suit in federal court, where everything will be open to the public, and potentially even more information could be uncovered. 

 

And then the NFL, why think about reducing it if you think four games is still appropriate? 

 

I tend to think "moving close to a 1 game suspension" is a bit of a reach. I think maybe Brady's side made a new offer recently, and the NFL considered it before rejecting it.

Man, oh, man! I sure hope you're wrong about your opinion, Superman! Would not be good for the league as a whole, and could lead the NFL down the wrong path for a true falling-away of our fans. That would not be good. Not good at all.

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I'm still wondering what the NFL has to gain from this "conspiracy theory."  Defacing one of the top draws/wealthiest teams in ALL of sports makes zero sense from a business standpoint.

Bingo. Polian hit the nail on the head. But this was never about the shield or the good of the league from day one ...

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