Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[csmopar]

 

Just found this....

 

Maybe nonsense but I'll post it.

 

 

Leg up: NFL asks feds to confirm Brady's ban

Bloomberg's Scott Soshnick reports the NFL has asked the U.S. District Court in Manhattan to "confirm" Tom Brady's four-game suspension.

In other words, they're suing Brady before he can sue them. Brady's 2014-15 decision to slightly under-inflate his footballs has resulted in an all-out war with the league. The SportsBusiness Journal's Daniel Kaplan speculates the league's suit is designed to get the matter out of judge David Doty's jurisdiction in Minnesota. Doty has often been a thorn in the NFL's side. Brady's case is looking a bit shaky amidst the revelation he intentionally destroyed his phone on the day of his meeting with investigator Ted Wells.

 

with the league filing first, I think this limits brady's options for sure.  You can't file in a different federal court if the case has been filed in one already.

[Superman]

Tom Brady has authorized the NFLPA to appeal his case in federal court, per source.

— Jim Trotter (@JimTrotter_NFL)

July 28, 2015

 

Just a matter of time.

[pgt_rob]

what ammo....they ain't got a gun at all.  The destroying of the phone after requested is the leagues smoking gun.  Pats fans can try all they want.  Brady is a cheater and a liar. 

 

Yeah... I should have said excuses. lol

[csmopar]

Can someone please explain what the implications are of taking this to federal court?  While the process is going on in federal court, Brady can continue playing.  What can the courts do?  I don't think there will be any implications for the suspension because that's between Brady and his employer.  Or perhaps there is?  Is there any possibility that the court decides to give Brady some sort of punishment (eg. 6 games instead of 4), or not since they aren't his employer?

All they can do is say that the league's punishment was unfair and either reduce it or throw it out all together.

[Valpo2004]

Yes, there will be an injunction (basically a Stay of the order) until the court will make a determination at whatever level in the process it makes a determination.  Staying an order like this one is not the biggest thing in the world, its not like asking a court to Stay a 2 year sentence based on a conviction of a crime. 

 

For what its worth just heard on the radio that Brady had given the go ahead to file a suit in federal court, so it should be interesting. 

 

Tie it up in court til Brady retires?? 

 

Brady is just looking worse and worse.  

[Moose Of Woe]

Per BostonGlobe.com:

 

 

The NFL Players’ Association hired a forensic expert, Brad Maryman, to review two of Brady’s cellphones — one used from spring 2014 to Nov. 5, 2014 and the other from March 6 to April 8 — and submit a report for the appeal hearing.

Goodell wrote that Maryman’s review “was extremely limited” and didn’t include all communication materials investigators requested.

 

Goodell also wrote that Maryman’s review of the first of those two phones went against Brady’s claim that it’s common practice for him to destroy old phones.

 

“Had Mr. Brady followed what he and his attorneys called his ‘ordinary practice,’ one would expect that the cellphone that he had used prior to November 6, 2014 would have been destroyed long before Mr. Maryman was hired,” Goodell wrote. “No explanation was provided for this anomaly.”

 

LieLieLieLieLieLie

[Yehoodi]

 

Just found this....

 

Maybe nonsense but I'll post it.

 

 

Leg up: NFL asks feds to confirm Brady's ban

Bloomberg's Scott Soshnick reports the NFL has asked the U.S. District Court in Manhattan to "confirm" Tom Brady's four-game suspension.

In other words, they're suing Brady before he can sue them. Brady's 2014-15 decision to slightly under-inflate his footballs has resulted in an all-out war with the league. The SportsBusiness Journal's Daniel Kaplan speculates the league's suit is designed to get the matter out of judge David Doty's jurisdiction in Minnesota. Doty has often been a thorn in the NFL's side. Brady's case is looking a bit shaky amidst the revelation he intentionally destroyed his phone on the day of his meeting with investigator Ted Wells.

 

 

Thanks for posting.  I am still troubled by how the NFL would have standing to file the suit.   But we will find out in the up coming days, weeks, and months.

 

And not sure how they can sue Brady, so I am not sure who the defendant is in the NFL's filing in New York.   

[The Fish]

I still can't wait for "Dorito Doink" and "The Deflator" to testify. 

[bababooey]

Yes, there will be an injunction (basically a Stay of the order) until the court will make a determination at whatever level in the process it makes a determination. Staying an order like this one is not the biggest thing in the world, its not like asking a court to Stay a 2 year sentence based on a conviction of a crime.

For what its worth just heard on the radio that Brady had given the go ahead to file a suit in federal court, so it should be interesting.

It's been interesting....just take the suspension. This is way worse than Arod last year.

[21isSuperman]

I think the Pats think everyone else is as illogical (to put it kindly) as they are.  Deflator means trying to lose weight.  Destroying a cell phone that you know has been requested in an investigation is common practice despite no evidence of doing it at any other point.  Some of this stuff is great

[csmopar]

Tie it up in court til Brady retires?? 

 

Brady is just looking worse and worse.  

No, it wont, not unless he goes to the supreme court. Though, it might take 6 months or better.

[21isSuperman]

I still can't wait for "Dorito Doink" and "The Deflator" to testify. 

The Deflator is working out and trying to lose weight.  He doesn't have time to testify

[21isSuperman]

All they can do is say that the league's punishment was unfair and either reduce it or throw it out all together.

Thanks.  They can't add anything to it?  Maybe as like an illegal business move (eg. doing unlawful practices to gain an advantage over his competitors)?  Or would that be too subjective since the unlawful practices are ones designated by the league, not by the legal system?

[Gramz]

Per BostonGlobe.com:

 

 

The NFL Players’ Association hired a forensic expert, Brad Maryman, to review two of Brady’s cellphones — one used from spring 2014 to Nov. 5, 2014 and the other from March 6 to April 8 — and submit a report for the appeal hearing.

Goodell wrote that Maryman’s review “was extremely limited” and didn’t include all communication materials investigators requested.

 

Goodell also wrote that Maryman’s review of the first of those two phones went against Brady’s claim that it’s common practice for him to destroy old phones.

 

“Had Mr. Brady followed what he and his attorneys called his ‘ordinary practice,’ one would expect that the cellphone that he had used prior to November 6, 2014 would have been destroyed long before Mr. Maryman was hired,” Goodell wrote. “No explanation was provided for this anomaly.”

 

LieLieLieLieLieLie

One lie leads to another and so it continues.

 

Maybe he should have talked with Pete Rose before continuing on.  

 

(Don't get me wrong,  I loved Pete Rose as a ballplayer, I am referring to how things have played out for him due to his lying about it for so long)

[Valpo2004]

Can someone please explain what the implications are of taking this to federal court?  While the process is going on in federal court, Brady can continue playing.  What can the courts do?  I don't think there will be any implications for the suspension because that's between Brady and his employer.  Or perhaps there is?  Is there any possibility that the court decides to give Brady some sort of punishment (eg. 6 games instead of 4), or not since they aren't his employer?

 

It's basically just asking the court to review if the process from investigation to punishment was fair or not based on the established rules and precedent of the NFL.

 

The main thing is that he can get an injunction which basically allows the court to say that he can play until the court makes a ruling on the fairness of the process.

 

I don't think they could increase the punishment on him but they could theoretically decrease it by claiming the process was fair but the punishment not (based on precedent from previous punishments).  They could also claim the process was unfair and vacate the whole thing.

[csmopar]

Thanks for posting.  I am still troubled by how the NFL would have standing to file the suit.   But we will find out in the up coming days, weeks, and months.

 

And not sure how they can sue Brady, so I am not sure who the defendant is in the NFL's filing in New York.   

 

 

They aren't really suing Brady.  What they are doing is a common legal tactic to 1: Expedite the process and 2: to basically chose the venue.  Think of it as a preemptive countersuit. If the Federal court in New York rules the league was right, then Brady's only avenue from there would be the Supreme Court

[ReMeDy]

The Deflator is working out and trying to lose weight.  He doesn't have time to testify

Then someone should stick a needle in him.

[dw49]

Thanks for posting.  I am still troubled by how the NFL would have standing to file the suit.   But we will find out in the up coming days, weeks, and months.

 

And not sure how they can sue Brady, so I am not sure who the defendant is in the NFL's filing in New York.   

 

 

I find that when I try to play attorney or accountant , I miss about 70% of the time. So I'll just wait and see rather than comment

[csmopar]

Thanks.  They can't add anything to it?  Maybe as like an illegal business move (eg. doing unlawful practices to gain an advantage over his competitors)?  Or would that be too subjective since the unlawful practices are ones designated by the league, not by the legal system?

 

 

If the league were to countersue for that, then they possibly could, however, proving a criminal case is much harder than a civil.  So more than likely, 2 outcomes: Suspension is upheld, or Suspension reduced/eliminated by court order.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

BREAKING: @NFL asks federal court to confirm Tom Brady suspension. Complaint filed in Manhattan #sportsbiz #NFL #preemptivestrike

— Scott Soshnick (@soshnick)

July 28, 2015

 

http://www.patspulpit.com/2015/7/28/9060853/deflategate-nfl-jumps-nflpa-files-suspension-with-new-york-federal

 

 

SB Nation in NE not happy at all...

[21isSuperman]

If the league were to countersue for that, then they possibly could, however, proving a criminal case is much harder than a civil.  So more than likely, 2 outcomes: Suspension is upheld, or Suspension reduced/eliminated by court order.  

Thanks for clarifying!

[csmopar]

Thanks.  They can't add anything to it?  Maybe as like an illegal business move (eg. doing unlawful practices to gain an advantage over his competitors)?  Or would that be too subjective since the unlawful practices are ones designated by the league, not by the legal system?

 

 

Really, the only thing criminally, from an investigators view point(me), that I can think of that could become criminal is if they can somehow tie it into Federal Racketeering charges.  

[Valpo2004]

Thanks.  They can't add anything to it?  Maybe as like an illegal business move (eg. doing unlawful practices to gain an advantage over his competitors)?  Or would that be too subjective since the unlawful practices are ones designated by the league, not by the legal system?

 

Your last part is correct. . . the league gets to decide what is fair and unfair in football.  The law can't make that call.  

 

It only gets to review if the process and punishment was fair.  However the big thing is the injunction.  I wouldn't put it past Brady to tie this up in court til he retires.  

 

Of course I'm sort of curious if they know ahead of time when the court would make it's ruling. . . because what happens if he gets the injunction but the court makes it's ruling during say week 16 of the NFL season.  That would mean the NFL's 4 game suspension would apply to any playoff games the Pats make.

 

I doubt that will happen though.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Give me a break. He tore up the best defense in football in the SB. He has been a winner ever since he got his first start...and his stats are up there with the greatest of all time. You don't go to 6 SBs by just cheating alone. The PSI had nothing to do with us getting crushed..guy is a winner....but yeah...he isn't acting like an innocent man (and likely isnt)...but what has happened on the field happened on the field...and he won. He likely made some poor choices with this situation but he wasn't the one that cheated with the Spygate thing. Thats on Bill...not Tom.

The entire organization is in support of cheating. I look at it like guns. I'll give mine up when everyone else does. You can cheat when everyone else is allowed to. It doesn't matter how good you are if you're a cheater. Just look at baseball.

[Restored]

It's basically just asking the court to review if the process from investigation to punishment was fair or not based on the established rules and precedent of the NFL.

 

The main thing is that he can get an injunction which basically allows the court to say that he can play until the court makes a ruling on the fairness of the process.

 

I don't think they could increase the punishment on him but they could theoretically decrease it by claiming the process was fair but the punishment not (based on precedent from previous punishments).  They could also claim the process was unfair and vacate the whole thing.

 

This could backfire though. If the court decides to rule in favor of the NFL, Brady will have to serve the suspension at a later time in the season.

[18Manning]

Give me a break. He tore up the best defense in football in the SB. He has been a winner ever since he got his first start...and his stats are up there with the greatest of all time. You don't go to 6 SBs by just cheating alone. The PSI had nothing to do with us getting crushed..guy is a winner....but yeah...he isn't acting like an innocent man (and likely isnt)...but what has happened on the field happened on the field...and he won. He likely made some poor choices with this situation but he wasn't the one that cheated with the Spygate thing. Thats on Bill...not Tom.

 

He's won a lot of games, but I wouldn't categorize him as a winner. Just winning games doesn't make you a winner. Winning with integrity makes you a winner.

[21isSuperman]

Really, the only thing criminally, from an investigators view point(me), that I can think of that could become criminal is if they can somehow tie it into Federal Racketeering charges.  

 

 

Your last part is correct. . . the league gets to decide what is fair and unfair in football.  The law can't make that call.  

 

It only gets to review if the process and punishment was fair.  However the big thing is the injunction.  I wouldn't put it past Brady to tie this up in court til he retires.  

 

Of course I'm sort of curious if they know ahead of time when the court would make it's ruling. . . because what happens if he gets the injunction but the court makes it's ruling during say week 16 of the NFL season.  That would mean the NFL's 4 game suspension would apply to any playoff games the Pats make.

 

I doubt that will happen though.

I see.  Thanks to both of you for clarifying!  I'm certainly no expert on the legal system

[Moose Of Woe]

He's won a lot of games, but I wouldn't categorize him as a winner. Just winning games doesn't make you a winner. Winning with integrity makes you a winner.

Indeed.

 

Winner>Loser>Cheater.  Whether you win or lose while cheating is irrelevant. Cheating reaches new lows if the cheater is a liar.

[Yehoodi]

Can someone please explain what the implications are of taking this to federal court?  While the process is going on in federal court, Brady can continue playing.  What can the courts do?  I don't think there will be any implications for the suspension because that's between Brady and his employer.  Or perhaps there is?  Is there any possibility that the court decides to give Brady some sort of punishment (eg. 6 games instead of 4), or not since they aren't his employer?

 

Do you mean the NFL or Brady taking it to court?

 

Why the NFL is doing likely, in my mind, to take the judge shopping out of the real plaintiff, Brady.   No sure if it will stick and the New York could yield and consolidate the case in the courthouse where Brady's files his suit.

 

Yes Brady will likely still be playing as a Stay of the NFL's order/decision (injunction) should be easy to get by the plaintiff Brady.  It does not mean that the suspension will go away if the court decides in the favor of the NFL.  If the NFL wins outright with no adjustment by the court, the injunction will be lifted and the suspension will active again.  Perhaps the court could massage this if it gets into later part of the year, by delaying its decision till after Brady's season is over whenever that would be.

 

As for Brady's grounds for suing I see a few grounds, (1) the NFL violated the CBA in the manner in which it handed down the suspension, which, imo, would included the process in which they made the adjudication (followed the CBA, is the suspension out of whack from other similar suspensions), (2) the NFL defamed Brady, and (3) that the actions by the NFL and its employees was arbitrary and capricious (facts supporting this would overlap option (1) above).

 

As for increasing the suspension not sure how the court could do this, I can see the court decreasing it as a remedy for the plaintiff Brady.      

[Superman]

http://www.patspulpit.com/2015/7/28/9060853/deflategate-nfl-jumps-nflpa-files-suspension-with-new-york-federal

 

 

SB Nation in NE not happy at all...

 

Some informed comments from OceanBirdView at the bottom of that post: 

 

Just a smart legal move by the NFL.

The NFLPA/Brady were saying they would file in a venue that was favorable to NFLPA/Brady (Minnesota or Boston), so the NFL preempted that tactic by filing first in a more favorable venue. Legal tactics 101.

 

As long as there is evidence that the NFL's decision is contested, there is a basis for either party to file first.

I’m sure there is plenty of correspondence from the NFLPA and/or Brady’s attorney stating that they will contest a suspension by the NFL.

 

Happens all the time.

Think about a case where one party to a contract writes a letter saying the party breached the contract. The "non-aggrieved" party who allegedly breached the contract will very often respond by filing a lawsuit for a determination that they did not breach. It’s called a declaratory judgment action (or "dec action" in legal circles). Very common, and it’s smart tactics for the non-aggrieved party to choose where the lawsuit is filed.

 

Sure, they could still file elsewhere.

But if there is a prior-filed case it makes it much more likely that the judge in the second filed case would either transfer the case or stay it so as not to have inconsistent rulings.

[ReMeDy]

@minakimes:
this news only confirms what we already knew: Tom Brady isn't a mobile quarterback
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/twitter-reacts-to-tom-brady-s-upheld-four-game-suspension-191951685.html

Well, can't argue with that. No point in continuing this discussion.

[Moose Of Woe]

The NFLPA/Brady were saying they would file in a venue that was favorable to NFLPA/Brady (Minnesota or Boston), so the NFL preempted that tactic by filing first in a more favorable venue. Legal tactics 101.

 

 

Good ol' unbiased Boston.

[21isSuperman]

Do you mean the NFL or Brady taking it to court?

 

Why the NFL is doing likely, in my mind, to take the judge shopping out of the real plaintiff, Brady.   No sure if it will stick and the New York could yield and consolidate the case in the courthouse where Brady's files his suit.

 

Yes Brady will likely still be playing as a Stay of the NFL's order/decision (injunction) should be easy to get by the plaintiff Brady.  It does not mean that the suspension will go away if the court decides in the favor of the NFL.  If the NFL wins outright with no adjustment by the court, the injunction will be lifted and the suspension will active again.  Perhaps the court could massage this if it gets into later part of the year, by delaying its decision till after Brady's season is over whenever that would be.

 

As for Brady's grounds for suing I see a few grounds, (1) the NFL violated the CBA in the manner in which it handed down the suspension, which, imo, would included the process in which they made the adjudication (followed the CBA, is the suspension out of whack from other similar suspensions), (2) the NFL defamed Brady, and (3) that the actions by the NFL and its employees was arbitrary and capricious (facts supporting this would overlap option (1) above).

 

As for increasing the suspension not sure how the court could do this, I can see the court decreasing it as a remedy for the plaintiff Brady.      

I meant the NFL suing Brady, or the court process in general.  I was just curious to see if the courts could do anything more, like give Brady a 6 game suspension.  But since that has to do with his employer and not the legal system, it makes sense that they can't.  However, if they could tie it to some legal point (maybe something about compromising integrity of a business or undermining competition or something), they could do something more.

[21isSuperman]

But, Brady isn't really a dirty player

 

[Superman]

Good ol' unbiased Boston.

 

In this case, that person might be biased, but he's pointing out that there's nothing wrong with the NFL sending this to the courts first.

[Gramz]

[21isSuperman]

 

[21isSuperman]

The title of a pretty good song by Linkin Park!

[Gramz]

In this case, that person might be biased, but he's pointing out that there's nothing wrong with the NFL sending this to the courts first.

Looks to me like the NFL is playing hard ball now.

 

I also agree with what others have said regarding public opinion.  

 

Brady really should just accept his punishment, and move on after week 4, but I have my doubts if he will.  Someone is really giving him BAD advice.

[21isSuperman]

Awwwww sensitive little Brady

http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/update/24995906/patriots-tom-brady-on-deflategate-my-feelings-got-hurt

 

“It's all speculation,” Brady said. “I've tried to wrap my head around it, too. I've done that and I'm trying to move past that, because I continue to try to rehash things. I personalized a lot of things and thought this was all about me, and my feelings got hurt."

 

--

C'mon, buddy.  Don't let your feelings get hurt.  Here, how about we go out and play a little catch to get your mind off things?  Just grab your favourite ball and we'll go outside and toss it around

 

 

(Yes, I know that article is from January)