Who's backing up Gore?

[Superman]

One, TRICH didn't cost very much and two, he was on the roster for less than 2 years.  That is admitting your mistake and moving on.

 

And he was demoted and/or benched more than once while he was here. He still has guaranteed money on his contract (pending a grievance). This is the ultimate debunking of the entire theory here. 

[Coffeedrinker]

Look, I am not going to get in an argument with you about he said, she said, they said.

 

I'm not getting into what he said, she said, they said.  I'm quoting what YOU said and refuting it.  

 

Obviously you can spin things the way you see fit. No, one said that the Pats trade all their picks but they do have a history of trading down. I was talking about "dead wood" and how teams can improve not just go on existing in their mistakes. Obviously no one employs the model I suggested 100%, but from a financial perspective it makes sense.

 

No it doesn't make sense.  Not only does no team employ the model you suggest 100% of the time, no team employs the model you suggest AT ALL.

 

If most of the league revenues are shared does it really matter if you win or lose? Makes for good marketing fodder to make a lot of noise about making an attempt to do something but in reality if you were to fire all the 1500+ players in the league and bring in all new ones , next season we would still have amazing plays, amazing stats, sold out stadiums and a superbowl champion .... and probably another deflate gate! For me to suggest that improvements could be made to every roster by eliminating "dead wood" is purely idealistic. We all know that this will never happen.

 

 

This statement is wrong for for two main reasons:

• Teams eliminate your "dead wood" all the time.
• TV revenues are shared but stadium revenues go to the owner.  So it makes a huge difference if a team wins or lose because wins and losses affect attendance, which affects, concessions, which affects stadium revenue which affects the owners profitability, which affects the amount of money he has for signing bonuses.

 

Just because the RB in my example has one 80 yard run and that happens to be the game winner does not classify him as a good RB in light of his other 20 ATT for 20 yards. Yet, the 80 yard run will make the highlight reel and the fans will go crazy and he will become a star overnight. But, in my eyes, he is "dead wood" unless he can consistantly repeat that feat!

 

 

You are now changing what you said, at first your said a good game now you are trying to change it to whether or not he's a good player.  And yes, one that can consistently produce is better than one that cannot.  Not always, but usually those more consistent players are drafted in the 1st 4 rounds.  If you sign a free agent that has proven to produce then he will want to get paid and get guaranteed money, then if he doesn't produce at the same level as before he becomes dead wood.  Once again you show you have no understanding of the real world

 

This is no different than the craze about 40 yard times. Who gives a crap how fast someones forty is when according to NFL rushing stats he will on average need 40 ATT to ever record one run of 20+ yards (yes, actual stats from 2014 NFL). Yet, we go absolutely bonkers over this metric and commit countless money chasing it. How silly is that? I can't even tell you how often this point is brought up on this board. There is a reason why backs average around 4 yards per ATT and their forty time has nothing to do with it! Trent Richards took a lot of flack here and some of it deserved but when you run behind a crappy line it does not matter if you are Superman, your results will be similar. I always question the RB draft picks from the big schools that consistantly have the best OL and their NFL performances consistantly give me reason to do so! Is Nick Chubb the next Todd Gurley or what is really going on there and how much cash do I want to commit to find out?

 

 

What makes you think I care anything about 40 times?  And none of that has to do with your process of improving a team with low round, UDFA and proven vets.

 

 

The media and so called guru analysts are absolutely crazy about stats. If you bring up stats and don't give me any info on the inputs that made up those stats (good or bad) I will think you know nothing. Stats are for fans. Reality is on the field.  

 

 

You are the one that gave specifics about stats.  But stats are meaningful, the discussions usually revolve around which stats are more meaningful.  Scores are stats, yards are stats, ypc are stats, some stats are more important than others.  Also, how do you quantify improvement if not with some sort of stat?

 

I think you give GMs way more credit than they deserve. Since most teams are perennial losers and someone made those decisions, where do you point the finger. There is not one GM in the league that does not say a prayer before he embarks on the draft process. If it doesn't work out what do you do. Human nature is to give your mistakes the benefit of the doubt or just plain try and hide them. And I think there is an awful lot of hiding going on around the NFL! 

 

 

Nope there are bad GMs just like there are bad coaches, owners, scouts, players, ball boys, fans and forum posters.  None of that matters, your ideas of running a team are horrible and the examples you use to support it are not based in reality.

 

[SteelCityColt]

Good heavens...

Just when you think you've seen it all..

[Colt Forty-Five]

 

Look, I am not going to get in an argument with you about he said, she said, they said.

 

I'm not getting into what he said, she said, they said.  I'm quoting what YOU said and refuting it.  

 

Obviously you can spin things the way you see fit. No, one said that the Pats trade all their picks but they do have a history of trading down. I was talking about "dead wood" and how teams can improve not just go on existing in their mistakes. Obviously no one employs the model I suggested 100%, but from a financial perspective it makes sense.

 

No it doesn't make sense.  Not only does no team employ the model you suggest 100% of the time, no team employs the model you suggest AT ALL.

 

If most of the league revenues are shared does it really matter if you win or lose? Makes for good marketing fodder to make a lot of noise about making an attempt to do something but in reality if you were to fire all the 1500+ players in the league and bring in all new ones , next season we would still have amazing plays, amazing stats, sold out stadiums and a superbowl champion .... and probably another deflate gate! For me to suggest that improvements could be made to every roster by eliminating "dead wood" is purely idealistic. We all know that this will never happen.

 

 

This statement is wrong for for two main reasons:

• Teams eliminate your "dead wood" all the time.
• TV revenues are shared but stadium revenues go to the owner.  So it makes a huge difference if a team wins or lose because wins and losses affect attendance, which affects, concessions, which affects stadium revenue which affects the owners profitability, which affects the amount of money he has for signing bonuses.

 

Just because the RB in my example has one 80 yard run and that happens to be the game winner does not classify him as a good RB in light of his other 20 ATT for 20 yards. Yet, the 80 yard run will make the highlight reel and the fans will go crazy and he will become a star overnight. But, in my eyes, he is "dead wood" unless he can consistantly repeat that feat!

 

 

You are now changing what you said, at first your said a good game now you are trying to change it to whether or not he's a good player.  And yes, one that can consistently produce is better than one that cannot.  Not always, but usually those more consistent players are drafted in the 1st 4 rounds.  If you sign a free agent that has proven to produce then he will want to get paid and get guaranteed money, then if he doesn't produce at the same level as before he becomes dead wood.  Once again you show you have no understanding of the real world

 

This is no different than the craze about 40 yard times. Who gives a crap how fast someones forty is when according to NFL rushing stats he will on average need 40 ATT to ever record one run of 20+ yards (yes, actual stats from 2014 NFL). Yet, we go absolutely bonkers over this metric and commit countless money chasing it. How silly is that? I can't even tell you how often this point is brought up on this board. There is a reason why backs average around 4 yards per ATT and their forty time has nothing to do with it! Trent Richards took a lot of flack here and some of it deserved but when you run behind a crappy line it does not matter if you are Superman, your results will be similar. I always question the RB draft picks from the big schools that consistantly have the best OL and their NFL performances consistantly give me reason to do so! Is Nick Chubb the next Todd Gurley or what is really going on there and how much cash do I want to commit to find out?

 

 

What makes you think I care anything about 40 times?  And none of that has to do with your process of improving a team with low round, UDFA and proven vets.

 

 

The media and so called guru analysts are absolutely crazy about stats. If you bring up stats and don't give me any info on the inputs that made up those stats (good or bad) I will think you know nothing. Stats are for fans. Reality is on the field.  

 

 

You are the one that gave specifics about stats.  But stats are meaningful, the discussions usually revolve around which stats are more meaningful.  Scores are stats, yards are stats, ypc are stats, some stats are more important than others.  Also, how do you quantify improvement if not with some sort of stat?

 

I think you give GMs way more credit than they deserve. Since most teams are perennial losers and someone made those decisions, where do you point the finger. There is not one GM in the league that does not say a prayer before he embarks on the draft process. If it doesn't work out what do you do. Human nature is to give your mistakes the benefit of the doubt or just plain try and hide them. And I think there is an awful lot of hiding going on around the NFL! 

 

 

Nope there are bad GMs just like there are bad coaches, owners, scouts, players, ball boys, fans and forum posters.  None of that matters, your ideas of running a team are horrible and the examples you use to support it are not based in reality.

 

 

Like I said , I am not going to argue with you as things can be spun in any direction based on your undersatnding of the English language. You are obviously a fan and have your fan hat on. Good for you, being a fan is much more fun than being realistic. Make no mistake, this is a business and the next time you are disappointed by the fan based result keep that in mind.

[Coffeedrinker]

Like I said , I am not going to argue with you as things can be spun in any direction based on your undersatnding of the English language. You are obviously a fan and have your fan hat on. Good for you, being a fan is much more fun than being realistic. Make no mistake, this is a business and the next time you are disappointed by the fan based result keep that in mind.

Of course you are not going to argue.  Your argument has been ripped to shreds, eaten by a stray dog and defecated into a hazardous waste bin.  I'd stop arguing too, if I were you.

[Colt Forty-Five]

Agree, coffee will make you deficate all kinds of stuff. Enjoy!

[krunk]

When will somebody realize this whole conversation is "Dead Wood"?   LOL!

[Coffeedrinker]

When will somebody realize this whole conversation is "Dead Wood"?   LOL!

To paraphrase Al Pacino in And Justice for All.

 

You're Dead wood, You're Deadwood, this whole thread is dead wood, they're dead wood...

[SteelCityColt]

To paraphrase Al Pacino in And Justice for All.

You're Dead wood, You're Deadwood, this whole thread is dead wood, they're dead wood...

Deadwood was underrated as a TV show..

[lennymoore24]

I think Josh Robinson will quickly become #2.

[alawai]

When will somebody realize this whole conversation is "Dead Wood"?   LOL!

I've been to Deadwood, South Dakota!

[krunk]

I think Josh Robinson will quickly become #2.

 

I do too!  I think Robinson and Gore will be a real good tandem and if he shows any of the potential we saw on film

I'm betting it won't take Pagano long to move Boom into 3rd position.

[Deadpool]

I think Boom's explosiveness was only an illusion due to TRich being horrible. he only had three games where he rushed for over 50 yards and one being against Jacksonville who ranked bottom of the NFL in stopping the run. that also so happened to be the game he avg 11 yards a carry. don't get me wrong, i love his 3rd down play. he is a good back to have out of the backfield on 3rd down because he can do both block and catch on passing downs. but i do agree with most of the posts, with Ballard's injury history (which i hope he does bounce back from, he had a very good rookie year) and Robinson being a rookie, Boom should get the nod at being the back up to Gore. although off field issues aside i wouldn't mind seeing a Gore/Rice tandem in the backfield. lol 

[Archangel]

1 Why are they holding Ballard out of OTA is he still injured or are they waiting for preseason and did they hold him out of last years OTA. If he is not injured need for him to start some sort of work out on his legs to see if he can handle it.

 

2 If Rice had his charges dismissed how much is he asking per year and would he be a good pickup. It never hurts to have extra running backs.

 

3 Does Gore do most of his damage in between the tackles or outside.

 

4 IMO Boom will get his chance to make the roster see how he does in his 2nd Yr.

[BlueShoe]

If Vick is healthy then he gets the number 2 spot.

[Chucklez]

1 Why are they holding Ballard out of OTA is he still injured or are they waiting for preseason and did they hold him out of last years OTA. If he is not injured need for him to start some sort of work out on his legs to see if he can handle it.

 

2 If Rice had his charges dismissed how much is he asking per year and would he be a good pickup. It never hurts to have extra running backs.

 

3 Does Gore do most of his damage in between the tackles or outside.

 

4 IMO Boom will get his chance to make the roster see how he does in his 2nd Yr.

1 - Ballard is still recovering from the season ending injury he had. He is however expected to be a go by training camp.

 

2 - No one wants to touch Rice because it seems like RB's are a dime a dozen these days and it's not worth the bad rep with signing a dude to knocked his wife out cold on camera.

 

3 - Gore is a straight up the gut type guy.

 

4 - Boom will more than likely start out as the #2 and it'll go from there...

[ReMeDy]

Frank Gore is such a man, that he will be his own backup.

 

Exactly. Frank Gore is one of the last remaining every down backs. He's an endangered species. He will play all four downs and like it.

[akcolt]

Gore gets the bulk of the carries. Boom will be the #2 back as long as he holds on to the ball. Is how I see it.

Hopefully Robinson has the goods to be 3rd on the depth chart or take over as the #2 guy if Boom puts it on the carpet.

I love Ballard total class act really good kid. The Achilles injury has done in every RB that has suffered one.

He hasn't been on the field in 2 years just making the team would be quite an achievement. I don't think challenging for the #2 back is realistic.

Ray Rice appeared on the decline prior to beating his girl. We don't need that around here. Boom is better all things considered.

I think we only carry 3 keep Tipton on the PS just in case. I don't see a need for more unless a surprise emerges in camp.

[Dark Superman]

My heart wants Ballard, but I'm guessing Boom will. I'm excited to see what Robinson can bring to the table as well.

[Dark Superman]

Could you imagine Gore, Rice and a guy like Robinson. I'd dig it.

[BOTT]

Hey, no one likes to hear the truth but it is what it is. If you came from the inside you would know exactly what I am talking about. What the public gets to see is completely different from the way things are. All they see is the front lobby, never get to the laundry room. I am not going to start listing the "dead wood" on our team but I am sure you have an idea of who at least ten of them are.

Insider Alert

[akcolt]

Could you imagine Gore, Rice and a guy like Robinson. I'd dig it.

What's your reasoning for Rice? Just a recognizable name? He's not very good.

In his last 32 games, he averaged 3.8 yards per carry, and he hasn’t had a 100-yard game since Dec. 23, 2012.

He only averaged 3.1 yards per carry for 660 total yards in his last full season.

Rice’s on-field abilities appeared to be declining before his off-field problems even began.

If you’re going to create instant headlines, you’d better be worth it. His lack of production the last few years says it wouldn’t be worth the attention that move would receive.

With what what we have already done this offseason, I’d give Rice a big “no thanks." Keep bringing in good character guys who can actually play.

Why would you want a piece of crap like that in a horseshoe even if he could still play?

[Gavin]

What's your reasoning for Rice? Just a recognizable name? He's not very good.

In his last 32 games, he averaged 3.8 yards per carry, and he hasn’t had a 100-yard game since Dec. 23, 2012.

He only averaged 3.1 yards per carry for 660 total yards in his last full season.

Rice’s on-field abilities appeared to be declining before his off-field problems even began.

If you’re going to create instant headlines, you’d better be worth it. His lack of production the last few years says it wouldn’t be worth the attention that move would receive.

With what what we have already done this offseason, I’d give Rice a big “no thanks." Keep bringing in good character guys who can actually play.

Why would you want a piece of crap like that in a horseshoe even if he could still play?

you really think he goes from 4 straight 1000+ yard seasons to a bad Back? If you look at what he did in 2013 and compare it to other Backs on the team you will see nobody to run behind that mess of an O Line they had in 2013 do to injuries. Im not campaigning for him...mainly because I think we have good Backs on the roster and running back has never been the real problem under this new regime......But 2013 is not a fair take on his ability

[akcolt]

you really think he goes from 4 straight 1000+ yard seasons to a bad Back? If you look at what he did in 2013 and compare it to other Backs on the team you will see nobody to run behind that mess of an O Line they had in 2013 do to injuries. Im not campaigning for him...mainly because I think we have good Backs on the roster and running back has never been the real problem under this new regime......But 2013 is not a fair take on his ability

That's fair. I just don't like the guy at all zero tolerance for his actions. I would be very disappointed if he wore the horseshoe even if we were getting the good player Rice

[Gavin]

That's fair. I just don't like the guy at all zero tolerance for his actions. I would be very disappointed if he wore the horseshoe even if we were getting the good player Rice

Oh Im not condoning what he did but prior to that he never did have an off field incident, What he did was wrong but at the same time it seems like it was a spur of the moment loss of self control that led to a bad decision, That's not to excuse it.....But he did pay for what he did.....Now if he was a repeat offender (meaning it happened again) then I think the guy deserves all he gets coming to him

[Chucklez]

Oh Im not condoning what he did but prior to that he never did have an off field incident, What he did was wrong but at the same time it seems like it was a spur of the moment loss of self control that led to a bad decision, That's not to excuse it.....But he did pay for what he did.....Now if he was a repeat offender (meaning it happened again) then I think the guy deserves all he gets coming to him

 

I agree with you, but only to a certain degree.

 

The whole point of the judicial system is that someone takes the punishment for what they have done, we can all agree on that. The second part that a lot of people seem to conveniently forget about is that once that person has taken the punishment / served the time, they are then to restart with a clean slate, as it were. Sure there is that black mark against their name, but for all intents and purposes they have served their time and are now back in society.

The part I just cant get on board with is this, I was raised to never hit a woman. It is unacceptable in any situation. End of.

[ColtStronger]

From a coach standpoint Ballard has shown a glimpse of talent, but has been injured for 2 consecutive years, that is why they're holding him until TC.  Boom had his chance last year and capitalized on it, but struggled with pass blocking at times and holding on to the football.  Robinson is a rookie and hasn't had an opportunity to showcase his talent, and was a 5th round pick.

 

All that being said, I think it will be a friendly competition between Ballard and Herron for the backup role in TC.  Only time will tell who wins.  I think Ballard is better, but as we saw with Ahmad, an injured talented running back doesn't mean a whole lot!  So I would say Ballard has the upperhand, but I'm not holding my breath.  When it comes to Robinson, I think he will see limited action.  Probably most of his field time will be on ST.  However, I could see the staff using him as a change of pace back, or a weapon later in the season (Gore wearing down/Ballard gets injured).  As the season goes on (as weve seen before), the RB listed further down the depth chart will get more reps, due to the physical nature of the position.

 

Here is what I think it will look like week 1

 

Gore

Ballard

Herron

Robinson

 

Week 16

Gore or Ballard (I sense one will be out)

Herron

Robinson

[aaron11]

dont get your hopes up for ballard, few players, especially running backs have been able to recover from those injuries

[akcolt]

Yeah Ballard probably won't contribute this year may never get back if you look at that injury for RB's.

That usually isn't the kind of thing that is an isolated incident and watching that video certainly didn't leave me with the feeling it was the first time. That's all speculation I know.

I would be didappointed if he was ever in a horseshoe. I have a daughter Mr. Irsay has a couple I dont see that dude playing for us.

[Gavin]

I agree with you, but only to a certain degree.

 

The whole point of the judicial system is that someone takes the punishment for what they have done, we can all agree on that. The second part that a lot of people seem to conveniently forget about is that once that person has taken the punishment / served the time, they are then to restart with a clean slate, as it were. Sure there is that black mark against their name, but for all intents and purposes they have served their time and are now back in society.

The part I just cant get on board with is this, I was raised to never hit a woman. It is unacceptable in any situation. End of.

Im on board with not hitting anyone... woman or not in most situations except a person does have the right to defend themselves if they feel threatened, I believe what he did was wrong but I don't think it was preplanned or premeditated, He lost his cool and lashed out...That don't excuse it,,,He hopefully learned from it and finds other ways handle a situation like that but I think he went through enough until he proves to be a repeat offender

[Hoose]

Just to get back on topic......................It will be Gore; Boom; Robinson; and Tipton. Zurlon is the forgotten guy who actually played well when given the chance.

Vick is an unfortunate victim of the same fate that strikes many NFL players. His body just won't hold up. I think he'll get cut.

[NewEra]

Ballard in my eyes is in the same boat as Bradshaw. Love the guy and the player but it will be a miracle to stay on the field healthy. Hopefully I'm wrong and he can bounce back.

Starting out I see Boom as the back up on experience alone. Robinson could take the spot by years in or just get a good bit of touches in the rotation. I really think Robinson is going to be what Trent WAS supposed to be. But without the self entitled me bullcrap.

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

Exactly. Frank Gore is one of the last remaining every down backs. He's an endangered species. He will play all four downs and like it.

We need to play him in rotation because he is 32 I believe, and needs more rest as he ages.

Running an older RB to death is a recipe for IR, we need him at the end of the season.

[JPFolks]

Robinson will be #2, Boom #3

Gore will help develope Robinson who I feel will be our future long term back. Boom will always be a backup to the feature back which should be Gore and apprentist Robinson.

 

Why exactly?  Boom should have been our featured back the moment Bradshaw went down last year if not for the moronic act of sticking with Richardson in what could only have been a lame attempt to save a little face all while making it worse AND not getting Boom even more seasoned before the playoffs.  With reasonable blocking, I think Boom could be as good as most starting backs out there.  To think he couldn't even make #2 seems a bit unfair.  Why the love affair with a late 6th round pick, who would typically be a stretch to even make the team?  And Zurlon Tipton also showed enough to be a 3rd back I think.  Don't discredit the two guys who were healthy and playing last year and know our schemes really well by now.  Ballard is the sad case.  You'd think he'd easily be a team maker but can you trust his availability?  Same problem we had with Bradshaw who was our best back in the past 2 years by far but like Ballard couldn't stay healthy.  I am certainly not rooting for a late 6th rounder to make it over two hard working guys like Herron and Tipton so automatically.  If they get beat out, so be it.  Let's hope Robinson can be there for us like Boom was last season.  (And if he'd gotten most of the carries as he should have based on actual talent over TR, he would have had a much much bigger season than they allowed him).  

[Hoose]

Ballard in my eyes is in the same boat as Bradshaw. Love the guy and the player but it will be a miracle to stay on the field healthy. Hopefully I'm wrong and he can bounce back.

Starting out I see Boom as the back up on experience alone. Robinson could take the spot by years in or just get a good bit of touches in the rotation. I really think Robinson is going to be what Trent WAS supposed to be. But without the self entitled me bullcrap.

I agree. Robinson is a RB I hoped the team would get by being patient early and striking around the 5th or 6th round. I think they got a heckuva bargain.

 

That said, Boom Herron is surprisingly unappreciated by many on this Board. He changed the running game once he was given the starting job; he caught the ball well and he blocked fairly decently. He fumbled a couple of times, but he's a hard, tough competitor and he'll improve that problem as his game continues to progress. I'm pretty happy with the current stable of running backs. Its by far the best the Colts have had in a long time. 

[chrisfarley]

Seems like Ballard is good to go but holding off until TC to showcase the work he's put in on his rehab. I'm interested to see how he handles the ball after 2 years of no football but with his"this could be it for me" mentality, I'm anticipating a pretty solid season from him. Robinson has been a surprising favorite this offseason among fans, especially via social media, and after hearing "Ballard taught me everything I know"... I'm excited to see the two on the field in 2015.

 

 

Here's what Colts.com writer, Kevin Bowen, had to say in this week's Mailbag:

Bowen: Ballard still hasn’t return to the field. The fourth-year running back has said he thinks he could participate in the Colts current offseason program, however, Training Camp looks to be more of a target for a player coming off back-to-back season-ending injuries. Once Ballard is healthy, I do expect him to be in the thick of the competition with Boom Herron and Josh Robinson for reps behind Frank Gore.

 

What do you think?

Ballard will never be what he was.  I don't look for him to be in the mix.  The question is, do we have enough sand-box room for him to even be on our roster.  I say we "Crean" him.  Look, it's just the way it is with devastating injuries at the running back position.  Once Gore has the inevitable Achilles, it will be the same with him (cut your losses now, little regret later).