Brady suspended four games, Pats fined and docked two draft picks (Mega Merge)

[Steamboat_Shaun]

FYI - Pats have posted a detailed rebuttal of the Wells report, http://wellsreportcontext.com/

 

Game on!

 

Looks like Wells brought a highlighted Word Doc to a website fight.

[Superman]

The hiring of Mr. Wells and his law firm followed the written notice to the Patriots (on the day after the AFC Championship Game) that the League had already made a “preliminary finding” that the Patriots may have tampered with the pressure of the footballs. See January 18, 2015 Letter from D. Gardi. League personnel, thus, with no basis and no understanding of the effect of temperature on psi, had already prejudged the issues.

 

Since when did "Patriots may have tampered" equate to "prejudgment?"

 

This is after they questioned McNally after the game. After the refs put two and two together, measured the balls at halftime, and league security had talked to McNally. Preliminary findings, based on McNally taking the balls without authorization, being unavailable for several minutes before reaching the field, and of course, the footballs being measured at halftime... yeah, no basis at all... :: rolls eyes ::

 

This like saying a trial is invalid because the investigators believed the person did something wrong before they reviewed all the evidence. The investigation only occurs because there's a belief someone did something wrong. 

 

Later on in that letter, it states: "Under the circumstances we think it is appropriate to conduct an investigation to determine if there was a violation..."

[PeterBowman]

that website is comdey gold.

[Dustin]

LOL

1) The rebuttal denies that either Jastremski or McNally did anything wrong, on several grounds (I don't agree with them so far, but whatever). If neither did anything wrong, why did the Patriots suspend both of them?

2) "The deflator" refers to McNally's attempt to lose weight. LOLOLOLOL

3) No one saw McNally with a needle, therefore, it can't be proved that he ever had one (even though the rebuttal states that he would bring a needle and sometimes two to the officials locker room so that the officials could test footballs before the game; the Wells report states that officials bring their own gauge and needle for testing). As jskinnz would say, dear God...

4) The Colts violated the rules by testing the intercepted football on the sideline, because only the refs can test footballs once the game starts... nice try. The football was a memento, and was taken out of play. The Colts could do whatever they wanted with that football on the sideline, except put it back in play.

Goodell should fine these imbeciles another first.

[Superman]

I don't like being treated like I'm an *. I might not be the brightest bulb in the tool shed (?)

 

 

Don't pee on my foot and tell me it's raining. 

[Superman]

that website is comdey gold.

 

It's gotta be a prank by The Onion, right?

[OffensivelyPC]

The report goes into great detail about the time it takes to deflate footballs in the bathroom.  But in a short summary, the rebuttal basically says that because there was no need to rush given the delay in game time (due to NFC CG) and because the report did not indicate whether someone of McNally's age and weight performed the Exponent tests, it was more likely that he just went to the bathroom as opposed to deflating the footballs.  

[CLOWN]

Nothing adds up? Are you serious? Look, I am not a rocket scientist but where there is smoke there is fire. If Brady had zero to hide then why not cooperate with the investigation and clear this matter up? He has not one time said the words I did not cheat. All he has said is I don't think so. He even said what's the big deal? This is not Isis and no one got killed with a huge smile on his face. That in itself shows arrogance. No matter what was done Isis and people getting killed is nothing to joke about. He was offered to have his cell phone and it's records looked at with himself and his lawyer present to protect anything non football related not to be made public knowledge. Kraft originally said he would accept any penalties handed out. That was a lie. Kraft must have thought the NFL wouldn't come down so hard because of his personal friendship with Goodell. If this does go to civil court you can be assured that Brady's phone records and the two ex employees will have subpoenas waiting for them. You might be 100% correct in your comment about some dark secrets being unearthed. But IMO it will not be good for the Patriots. What is very sad is the Patriots are a good enough team not to have bent, broke or pushed the rules to win games. Integrity to me is very important and the Patriots as a whole have not shown much of that. The even sadder part is a lot Patriots fans seem to lavish in that. Yes winning is great but at what cost? I would rather my team lose and hold their head up knowing they did their best within the sportsmanship of the game that to win knowing it was tainted.

 

 

I'm not buying my fellow fans "Integrity" chant. I'd like the Colts to beat the Pats as much as the next guy but I'm not out to persecute the Patriots because of a little known and historically ignored rule. Even when warned about the infraction the league and officials had no protocol for measuring and securing the balls that had so much to do with the leagues 'Integrity". Then they let the Patriots play the first half with balls they knew were most likely compromised...where's the "Integrity" in that? They must not have thought too much of it? Wells takes 108 days and bills the league millions for this garbage then gets upset about his "Integrity " being questioned? This whole thing is a skunk. The league needs to figure out protocol on the matter and implement it across the board then put the boys on the field and let them play. It embarrasses me and my fellow fans to think a under inflated ball is what makes for a SB team. It's just foolishness.     

[buccolts]

Well now, you know the answer to this already...... don't you?

 

It's the same people that were completely fine with him doing the investigation, until of course, it didn't go in their favor.

 

Oh, absolutely. I just wanted to bring it up for the sake of pondering.

[dynasty13]

Assuming that, it is aslo possible the scenario of measuring could be reversed... making everything seem so so much worse than even reported!  Stop it already!

 

That's certainly true too. But then again I'm not the one ruling out possibilities. You guys have the market cornered on that one.

[Superman]

I'm not buying my fellow fans "Integrity" chant. I'd like the Colts to beat the Pats as much as the next guy but I'm not out to persecute the Patriots because of a little known and historically ignored rule. Even when warned about the infraction the league and officials had no protocol for measuring and securing the balls that had so much to do with the leagues 'Integrity". Then they let the Patriots play the first half with balls they knew were most likely compromised...where's the "Integrity" in that? They must not have thought too much of it? Wells takes 108 days and bills the league millions for this garbage then gets upset about his "Integrity " being questioned? This whole thing is a skunk. The league needs to figure out protocol on the matter and implement it across the board then put the boys on the field and let them play. It embarrasses me and my fellow fans to think a under inflated ball is what makes for a SB team. It's just foolishness.     

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-emotion

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ambiguity

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

[PeterBowman]

It's gotta be a prank by The Onion, right?

I would hope so, but it seems legit...even ESPN is reporting on it

[Restored]

So either an intern at the Patriots got slap happy or TMZ is having a slow-day.

[Dustin]

Patriots cite having run "far more offensive plays" than the Colts in the first half .... New England ran 41 plays, Indy ran 30.

— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer)

May 14, 2015

[Gramz]

Patriots cite having run "far more offensive plays" than the Colts in the first half .... New England ran 41 plays, Indy ran 30.

— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer)

May 14, 2015

and this proves what exactly...???  

[PrincetonTiger]

This "rebuttal" has become monologue fodder

[buccolts]

and this proves what exactly...???  

 

Nothing.                                                                              Filler.

[lollygagger8]

FYI - Pats have posted a detailed rebuttal of the Wells report, http://wellsreportcontext.com/

 

Game on!

 

I missed the part where they legalized marijuana in New England. 

[csmopar]

No texts received FROM Brady, by either party?

No with the words...hey guys deflated those balls below 12.5 which I what a lot of people want to see.

However, there were texts between them, especially after the story broke. Brady and them talked for over 20 minutes on the phone shortly after the story broke. Plus there are text messages from Brady talking bout the other two being nervous...

[Gramz]

You really have to be more than somewhat delusional to believe this rebuttal.

 

Got to give them credit for trying I guess.  Although I would extend more credit for some truth and  humility.

[Gramz]

As I understand it, Brady / Pats  have until 5:00 p.m. today to file an appeal.

 

If 5:00 comes and goes, without one filed,   then what?

[csmopar]

As I understand it, Brady / Pats have until 5:00 p.m. today to file an appeal.

If 5:00 comes and goes, without one filed, then what?

Then it's SOL and the only option would be in the courts...though it'd loom really bad that they didn't try to appeal to the league...

[lollygagger8]

The NE Cheater's "rebuttal" makes me

 

 

The entire fan base of the NFL is laughing at the delusional New England community. What a joke!!  

[SteelCityColt]

As I understand it, Brady / Pats  have until 5:00 p.m. today to file an appeal.

 

If 5:00 comes and goes, without one filed,   then what?

More educated posters correct he if I'm wrong, but if they do appeal aren't they only appealing the punishment length? Wouldn't that be an implied admission of guilt if you're only haggling the punishment.

[Gramz]

SportsPickle ‏@sportspickle  1h1 hour ago

Brady could've ended this in Jan by saying: "Oops. I like a softer ball, but looks like we went too far." But this is waaaay more hilarious.

 

Mike Greenberg ‏@Espngreeny  44m44 minutes ago

One thing for sure. #Patriots are ALL IN behind Brady. Dangerous strategy, mostly for him. If he's guilty, he's made a fool of Bob Kraft.

[csmopar]

SportsPickle ‏@sportspickle 1h1 hour ago

Brady could've ended this in Jan by saying: "Oops. I like a softer ball, but looks like we went too far." But this is waaaay more hilarious.

Mike Greenberg ‏@Espngreeny 44m44 minutes ago

One thing for sure. #Patriots are ALL IN behind Brady. Dangerous strategy, mostly for him. If he's guilty, he's made a fool of Bob Kraft.

Sounds like they are banking on a court case...

[ColtsBlueFL]

That's certainly true too. But then again I'm not the one ruling out possibilities. You guys have the market cornered on that one.

 

 

One guy is in charge of checking pressures.  The Ref I'm sure he used the same gauge and completed them all at one sitting.  Another official may pump air into any that measured under, but he tosses it back to the Ref for re-gauge.  Those sticking up for complete innocence of Brady are insulting the intelligence of the majority of the population. 

 

But there's one question I have, why did the Pats supply two gauges, and from different manufacturers too?   Hmmmm......

[OffensivelyPC]

 

SportsPickle ‏@sportspickle  1h1 hour ago

Brady could've ended this in Jan by saying: "Oops. I like a softer ball, but looks like we went too far." But this is waaaay more hilarious.

 

Mike Greenberg ‏@Espngreeny  44m44 minutes ago

One thing for sure. #Patriots are ALL IN behind Brady. Dangerous strategy, mostly for him. If he's guilty, he's made a fool of Bob Kraft.

 

[Superman]

One guy is in charge of checking pressures.  The Ref I'm sure he used the same gauge and completed them all at one sitting.  Another official may pump air into any that measured under, but he tosses it back to the Ref for re-gauge.  Those sticking up for complete innocence of Brady are insulting the intelligence of the majority of the population. 

 

But there's one question I have, why did the Pats supply two gauges, and from different manufacturers too?   Hmmmm......

 

From what I understand, the team doesn't supply the gauges. The refs bring their own.

 

Edit: According to the report, the Patriots will supply a pump and a gauge, but Anderson is certain that he used one of the two gauges that he brought with him.

[Valpo2004]

Didn't read the whole thing but noticed that they talked about how Brady basically signs autographs for everyone to explain away the stuff the guy got.  

 

Maybe that's true but does he give everyone game worn jerseys?  The Wells report specifically states that one of them I think McNally got a GAME WORN JERSEY.  

 

Sorry that's more then just a "Mr. Brady can I have your autograph?"

[ColtsBlueFL]

I'm not buying my fellow fans "Integrity" chant. I'd like the Colts to beat the Pats as much as the next guy but I'm not out to persecute the Patriots because of a little known and historically ignored rule. Even when warned about the infraction the league and officials had no protocol for measuring and securing the balls that had so much to do with the leagues 'Integrity". Then they let the Patriots play the first half with balls they knew were most likely compromised...where's the "Integrity" in that? They must not have thought too much of it? Wells takes 108 days and bills the league millions for this garbage then gets upset about his "Integrity " being questioned? This whole thing is a skunk. The league needs to figure out protocol on the matter and implement it across the board then put the boys on the field and let them play. It embarrasses me and my fellow fans to think a under inflated ball is what makes for a SB team. It's just foolishness.     

 

You're repeating previous hot air. Asked and answered.  You ignored it.

 

And brady's camp- To boldly say nothing happened and has never happened once, let alone over time is insulting the intelligence of those that trust in an investigation trying to find facts and trvth.  I only wish this could go to an impartial (non football fans) jury.  Instead it goes to judicial officials that appear to have an axe to grind with the League for some reason.

[csmopar]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/most-fans-side-with-nfl-over-brady-in-deflate-gate--poll-finds-144811652.html

Interesting read.

[18Manning]

I'm not buying my fellow fans "Integrity" chant. I'd like the Colts to beat the Pats as much as the next guy but I'm not out to persecute the Patriots because of a little known and historically ignored rule. Even when warned about the infraction the league and officials had no protocol for measuring and securing the balls that had so much to do with the leagues 'Integrity". Then they let the Patriots play the first half with balls they knew were most likely compromised...where's the "Integrity" in that? They must not have thought too much of it? Wells takes 108 days and bills the league millions for this garbage then gets upset about his "Integrity " being questioned? This whole thing is a skunk. The league needs to figure out protocol on the matter and implement it across the board then put the boys on the field and let them play. It embarrasses me and my fellow fans to think a under inflated ball is what makes for a SB team. It's just foolishness.     

 

The potential culmination of benefits from under inflated balls could very well contribute to a team going to the SB. No one is saying NE is not a good team (not that I saw).

[ColtsBlueFL]

From what I understand, the team doesn't supply the gauges. The refs bring their own.

 

Edit: According to the report, the Patriots will supply a pump and a gauge, but Anderson is certain that he used one of the two gauges that he brought with him.

 

My understanding is the home team supplies the air pump and needle/gauges.

 

Edit: If Anderson used his own, that isn't good for the league...

[Superman]

My understanding is the home team supplies the air pump and needle/gauges.

 

Edit: If Anderson used his own, that isn't good for the league...

 

I don't see where you're coming from or where you're going. Check out page 51-52 about Anderson using his own gauges, including the footnotes. Is there something that states the home team is supposed to supply the pump, needle and gauges, and that the refs can't use their own? Page 37 says many officials bring their own gauges.

 

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/investigative-and-expert-reports-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf

[ColtsBlueFL]

I don't see where you're coming from or where you're going. Check out page 51-52 about Anderson using his own gauges, including the footnotes. Is there something that states the home team is supposed to supply the pump, needle and gauges, and that the refs can't use their own? Page 37 says many officials bring their own gauges.

 

https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/investigative-and-expert-reports-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdf

 

I went back and re-read the rulebook.  It just say home team supplies the pump.  I thought for sure it mentioned gauges as well.  Poor recollection on my part.

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

 

But if Ref bring their own, who calibrates and guarantees them for accuracy?

[Valpo2004]

More educated posters correct he if I'm wrong, but if they do appeal aren't they only appealing the punishment length? Wouldn't that be an implied admission of guilt if you're only haggling the punishment.

 

I think you can appeal on the basis of the facts of the case as well as argue that even if they find the facts of the case to be consistent with the report the punishment is too severe.  

 

I don't think it's seen as an admission of guilt.  However I think they can only appeal to the NFL one time.  So if they fail to get the result they want on the NFL appeal the only option is the courts.

 

But I don't think the courts can help them much.  Courts don't make the rules, the NFL does.  The only way the courts can act is if the Pats are being treated unfairly by the NFL.  But there is very little precedent on which they can base what a fair punishment is.  So the NFL is allowed to set it's own precedent.  Also the NFL has an ace up it's sleeve in the form of spygate.  Even if the courts see this punishment as being unfair the NFL can say, yes but they are repeat offenders and can receive a harsher punishment on that basis.  

 

I really just don't see how they could be very successful in court on this.  Courts don't have the legal authority to comment on the Rules of the NFL, how it enforces those rules, and how it conducts it's investigations.  Only thing I think they could comment on is if the Pats are being singled out for extra punishment.  They arn't even allowed to comment on which offenses are worse then others and should be punished more then others.  But lack of precedent makes it hard for the courts to do anything.  NFL could have revoked the Patriots membership in the NFL and suspended Brady for life and courts couldn't offer much protection.

 

Remember the courts couldn't protect that racist NBA owner from being forced to sell his own property.  If they can't prevent that then it's hard to see how they could do much with penalties that exist inside the league only such as draft picks and suspensions.  And they likely can't protect Kraft from the fine either.

[Superman]

I went back and re-read the rulebook.  It just say home team supplies the pump.  I thought for sure it mentioned gauges as well.  Poor recollection on my part.

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

 

But if Ref bring their own, who calibrates and guarantees them for accuracy?

 

Who calibrates the gauges the home team would provide?

 

This whole thing hasn't exactly been handled in a scientific and tamper proof manner up til now. But is that really necessary? Can't teams just not cheat? I don't know why we need to check footballs the way airplanes are checked, or the way medical equipment is checked. 

[dynasty13]

I went back and re-read the rulebook.  It just say home team supplies the pump.  I thought for sure it mentioned gauges as well.  Poor recollection on my part.

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

 

But if Ref bring their own, who calibrates and guarantees them for accuracy?

 

 

Excellent question....which is why things get even more interesting when they use two different gauges that are off by .4 PSI... ... ... ...

[Superman]

For example, Patriots saying “deflator” nickname for McNally was reference to him losing weight. Has anyone heard that term used that way?

— Kevin Seifert (@SeifertESPN)

May 14, 2015

 

I worked in a gym for two years, and never heard this term. Anecdotal, but still...