DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[jvan1973]

Sure they do. This was not a criminal investigation. The Patriots can choose to cooperate up to a point on anything.

not without punishment they can't. See the 2008 memo from Goodell

[ColtRider]

I'm of the thinking of "how could they NOT know?"

Yeah, I guess you never really know until someone starts talking. Imagine that, though. Yikes, and Double Yikes!

[jet1968]

lol. The league can feel however they want. But 4 interviews is plenty.

100 interviews isn't plenty if the people they are interviewing isn't forthright to begin with. My guess is they were getting mixed answers and they basically had to chase them around to verify what they weren't being told.

[NewColtsFan]

Sure they do. This was not a criminal investigation. The Patriots can choose to cooperate up to a point on anything.

 

Yes,  they can do whatever they want.

 

But the league will view it quite differently, and NOT in a good way for the Patriots.

 

This was an NFL criminal investigation -- in a manner of speaking.

 

And all this talk about having definitive proof is such complete nonsense.    Years ago,  the NFL set into it's own by-laws deciding things like this by the legal standard known as....   "a preponderance of evidence"....     basically 51 percent vs. 49.    Some might even say 50.1 vs. 49.9.

 

That's all the NFL needs to decide.    Kraft knows this,  though he acts now like he's never heard it before.

 

The fans don't know it, but they're screaming bloody murder because there's no real "proof"....

 

Sorry,  but there's proof enough for the NFL, and this wasn't designed to attack the Patriots.

 

One last thought....     why would the NFL want to be attacking their own top franchise.    The current Super Bowl champ.  The only team that's a dynasty this century....     this is NOT in the NFL's best interest.    It's hurting it's brand,  it's hurting the shield.

 

They're doing this because "competitive advantage" is at the very heart of all sports leagues.    If fans think the league lets teams get away with cheating,  it's a kiss of death....

 

Hey,  I don't think the Pats gained any kind of advantage on the Colts.   You're clearly the better team.    But Nixon didn't have to cheat to win in '72 and yet he did.     The Pats didn't have to cheat to beat the Colts -- and yet they did.

[amfootball]

100 interviews isn't plenty if the people they are interviewing isn't forthright to begin with. My guess is they were getting mixed answers and they basically had to chase them around to verify what they weren't being told.

My guess is they were looking for the right information to fit their narrative. That is obvious from reading the report.

[jvan1973]

Sure they do. This was not a criminal investigation. The Patriots can choose to cooperate up to a point on anything.

The report said Patriots counsel apparently didn’t inform McNally of the request, and that the refusal “violated the club‟s obligations to cooperate with the investigation under the Policy on Integrity of the Game & Enforcement of League Rules and was inconsistent with public statements made by the Patriots pledging full cooperation with the investigation.”

[Superman]

he was interviewed before Brady was. Brady said he didn't know who he was. Clearly he needed to be asked more questions. That's how investigations work. The further along they go, more questions need answers

 

Full cooperation is full cooperation. Saying "no, you've interviewed him enough" isn't full cooperation.

[dw49]

Sure they do. This was not a criminal investigation. The Patriots can choose to cooperate up to a point on anything.

 

 

They can "choose" to limit co operation as they did. They just shouldn't have their owner running off his mouth saying they "FULLY" co operated with the investigation. Right or are we going to get ridiculous on what "fully" really means in the scope of Bob Kraft ?

[amfootball]

The report said Patriots counsel apparently didn’t inform McNally of the request, and that the refusal “violated the club‟s obligations to cooperate with the investigation under the Policy on Integrity of the Game & Enforcement of League Rules and was inconsistent with public statements made by the Patriots pledging full cooperation with the investigation.”

Like I said, they can do what they want and then accept whatever consequences the league has. But five interviews is over the top IMO.

[amfootball]

They can "choose" to limit co operation as they did. They just shouldn't have their owner running off his mouth saying they "FULLY" co operated with the investigation. Right or are we going to get ridiculous on what "fully" really means in the scope of Bob Kraft ?

You have to set limits at some point DW.

[horseshoeblue22]

You said you're convinced of this, so I doubt that my response is going to matter much, but...

 

The league was investigating this. That's the story Kravitz broke. He didn't figure out that the Pats had tampered with the balls; he was told that the league was investigating the Pats for tampering with the balls. The league had already done something. If you read the report about the onsite league reps -- Riveron, etc. -- they pounced on this just as soon as they realized something was going on.

 

My viewpoint is that the Colts asked the league to get on this. Once the league saw that there was actually something to it -- which was in the very next game after they received the Colts' email -- they got on it. By letting events play out without interference, they were able to uncover blatant cheating by the Patriots, and now, a picture is painted of this being something that has been happening for a while now.

 

It doesn't bother me that we played the first half with the deflated footballs. It bothers me that McNally stole the balls, sneaked into the bathroom with them, let air out of them, and then took them out to the field. It bothers me that he evidently did this in cooperation with Jastremski, likely on multiple occasions. And it bothers me that he likely did this at the behest of Tom Brady. That's it. The blame is easily contained in this situation, and it falls directly on those three. Not the league. Not the refs. Certainly not the Colts. 

 

While the points you made are certainly good ones, Riveron and the league officials should have pounced as soon as Walt Anderson realized the balls went missing in an unusual way right before kickoff was scheduled to start. If Anderson gauged the balls, passed them on inspection and they were no longer at regulation PSI after McNally showed up with the "missing footballs" then that right there shows tampering was involved. For whatever reason, Anderson and the league officials allowed the game to start with footballs of questionable integrity.

 

Hindsight is everything here, but they certainly could have handled the situation better from the start, and would have made it much easier for the investigators to determine whether the balls were tampered with. As soon as McNally walked out on the field with the footballs, Anderson should have postponed the game a few minutes to check the pressures right then and there. He wouldn't have had to check them all, exactly, just a few...enough to figure out if there was foul play involved or not. Not saying he is to blame for this, but it just doesn't make much sense to wait until after the Colts complained to the league officials, and then re-check the balls at halftime. By halftime a million other factors (weather, humidity, wear and tear, etc.) could have an an influence on the PSI levels inside those footballs.

 

If Anderson had any suspicions about how the balls were delivered onto the field, it is his obligation to see if there is any merit to his own suspicions. He is the head official after all.

 

If the Colts had never raised the issue after the interception, would Wells be involved?

If the Colts had gave the story to Kravitz, would Wells be involved?

 

Public perception is everything. And now, the report suggests that the league did nothing wrong. Pats ownership did nothing wrong, and the coach did nothing wrong. All the "wrong-doing" falls on the player (Brady) and the equipment guys. This narrative helps make the NFL look better, there's little denying that.

[jvan1973]

Like I said, they can do what they want and then accept whatever consequences the league has. But five interviews is over the top IMO.

your opinion is meaningless. You weren't involved in the investigation. Full cooperation is not what was granted

[amfootball]

We're well past ridiculous, aren't we? I've been calling AM "fact resistant" for three years now. 

I never remember you calling me that.

[jvan1973]

You have to set limits at some point DW.

no they don't

[Gramz]

your opinion is meaningless. You weren't involved in the investigation. Full cooperation is not what was granted

. Hey I trust you'll message me later if the punishment gets handed down.

[dw49]

I never remember you calling me that.

 

 

 

I would bet you are going to set a record of amount of posts in a thread 

[dw49]

We're well past ridiculous, aren't we? I've been calling AM "fact resistant" for three years now. 

 

Are you trying to say that everything pretty much just bounces off her ? You have to remember that she is a girl.

[csmopar]

lol. The league can feel however they want. But 4 interviews is plenty.

4....he had only 1 with McNally...man, can you even read?

[Superman]

While the points you made are certainly good ones, Riveron and the league officials should have pounced as soon as Walt Anderson realized the balls went missing in an unusual way right before kickoff was scheduled to start. If Anderson gauged the balls, passed them on inspection and they were no longer at regulation PSI after McNally showed up with the "missing footballs" then that right there shows tampering was involved. For whatever reason, Anderson and the league officials allowed the game to start with footballs of questionable integrity.

 

Hindsight is everything here, but they certainly could have handled the situation better from the start, and would have made it much easier for the investigators to determine whether the balls were tampered with. As soon as McNally walked out on the field with the footballs, Anderson should have postponed the game a few minutes to check the pressures right then and there. He wouldn't have had to check them all, exactly, just a few...enough to figure out if there was foul play involved or not. Not saying he is to blame for this, but it just doesn't make much sense to wait until after the Colts complained to the league officials, and then re-check the balls at halftime. By halftime a million other factors (weather, humidity, wear and tear, etc.) could have an an influence on the PSI levels inside those footballs.

 

If Anderson had any suspicions about how the balls were delivered onto the field, it is his obligation to see if there is any merit to his own suspicions. He is the head official after all.

 

If the Colts had never raised the issue after the interception, would Wells be involved?

If the Colts had gave the story to Kravitz, would Wells be involved?

 

Public perception is everything. And now, the report suggests that the league did nothing wrong. Pats ownership did nothing wrong, and the coach did nothing wrong. All the "wrong-doing" falls on the player (Brady) and the equipment guys. This narrative helps make the NFL look better, there's little denying that.

 

If the Colts hadn't raised the issue after the interception, I doubt the league does anything. Maybe they question McNally about disappearing the balls before kickoff. But again, you have to realize that the league gets complaints about stuff all the time. I imagine most of them are nonsense. They can't go chasing ghosts every time someone claims to see one. Show them material evidence, and they jumped on it quickly. I'm fine with that.

 

If the Colts didn't leak the investigation to Kravitz (I'm assuming that's how he got this), I'm sure someone would have leaked it somewhere. I think the league would have preferred if this didn't play out so publicly, but I can't say whether Wells would have been involved otherwise. Doesn't really matter to me; I knew when Tom Brady lied in his presser that the Pats had cheated.

 

I said before, I get why Anderson didn't stop and measure the footballs again. The game had already been delayed by ten minutes. If a 30 second Super Bowl commercial costs $3m, how much does a ten minute delay to measure footballs before the AFCCG cost? Refs don't just delay kickoff. 

 

In a perfect world, the refs would have been more observant, someone would have followed McNally and seen him sneak into the bathroom, and they would have stopped him and measured the footballs again right then. End of the day, I think the result is pretty much the same. We know he broke protocol, we know the balls lost significant pressure, and we know the balls didn't lose pressure just because of atmospherics. They cheated. I'm over the minutia, personally. It doesn't matter. It certainly didn't impact the game that day. By catching them redhanded, hopefully it has a far reaching effect throughout the league into perpetuity. 

[amfootball]

I would bet you are going to set a record of amount of posts in a thread 

Not even close to my record I don't think ...

[Restored]

I wonder if the forums will crash when the NFL hands out a 4-6 game suspension for Tommy boy.

[ColtRider]

Here's another thing about this whole mess that just boils my clams. The Pats fans and others that have climbed all over Ryan Grigson for bringing up deflation in the first place. If he doesn't as a GM of an NFL team and knowingly looks the other way concerning violations of his team or another that is dereliction of his duties as said GM. To go farther out and lay blame at the hands of the Colts and/or one single individual charged with protecting the integrity of the game is flat-out lunacy. Maybe this has been touched on already, but it deserves being said a couple hundred times, IMO.

[Gramz]

I wonder if the forums will crash when the NFL hands out a 4-6 game suspension for Tommy boy.

More importantly will the forum hand out suspensions equal to Tom's.

I kid.... I think.

[OffensivelyPC]

lol. The league can feel however they want. But 4 interviews is plenty.

People said that about the Aaron Hernandez witnesses too and called it "lack of evidence" and "scrambling to find anything."

[garydellabate]

It doesn't bother me that we played the first half with the deflated footballs. It bothers me that McNally stole the balls, sneaked into the bathroom with them, let air out of them, and then took them out to the field. It bothers me that he evidently did this in cooperation with Jastremski, likely on multiple occasions. And it bothers me that he likely did this at the behest of Tom Brady. That's it. The blame is easily contained in this situation, and it falls directly on those three. Not the league. Not the refs. Certainly not the Colts. 

 

I am pretty ticked the game was never fair from the start. We still would get killed but the fact Grigson told them and the refs knew to look out for it....I get there is no time to delay and re-pump the balls. It's not that much to expect a fair game and despite our warnings and NFL's warnings it still didn't happen. I know the refs followed correct protocol and did their jobs but it still happened despite warnings.

 

We got cheated against in a championship game. A game we fight tooth and nail to get into and have been to a few times in my lifetime. The Jets are fined 100K because the Patriots accuse them of tampering when Woody says he wants to get an old player back, yet we are the ones that won't be made whole in this situation since we had to suffer from both the NFL's knowing and still failing to catch it and the Patriot's red-handed cheating in such a high profile game.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

FYI - I think it is against the rules to post other forums content here ...

My bad ..

 

What is your opinion of the post I quoted ?

[OffensivelyPC]

Full cooperation is full cooperation. Saying "no, you've interviewed him enough" isn't full cooperation.

Bottom line is, an investigation is over when there are either no more questions or the possibility to answer unanswered questions is exhausted.  Clearly, that wasn't the case and the failure to respond for more questions is, as you say, not full cooperation.

[wig]

lol. The league can feel however they want. But 4 interviews is plenty.

 

They can feel however they want.  Problem is, they will punish the Pats based on how they feel.  

 

From Kraft's mouth after the y launched the investigation:

 

“On Monday, I received a letter from the league office informing me that they would be conducting an investigation into the air pressure of the game balls. Immediately after receiving the letter, I instructed our staff to be completely cooperative and transparent with the league’s investigators."

 

I don't know about you, but there is no other definition of "completely cooperative" in my world.  Kraft can't control his people even after they cheated, showing a lack of institutional control.  Under no circumstances can the people within the organization be accused of being completely cooperative.

[jabbanobadda]

To your last graph, why? It is the league that went on this witch hunt over ball pressure and blew it up into a national story with this ridiculous investigation. The burden has always been on them to prove it and IMO they have failed with this report. There is no reason for the Pats to say anything as the report did not find any smoking gun as Kraft said it wouldn't. Not to mention they were trying to find a history of it and failed on that too and revealed that their own ref at the Jets game blew up games to an illegal limit.

You already said that you thought tom brady was guilty. Who/what are you defending? Are you saying it's OK to cheat and lie as long as it can't be proven?

[Jason_]

lol. The league can feel however they want. But 4 interviews is plenty.

 

lol...it's not up to you, or Kraft, to determine how many interviews are plenty. ;)

[amfootball]

My bad ..

 

What is your opinion of the post I quoted ?

I disagree with the post. I do think the report casts aspersions against Brady but it fails to show him responsible for anything pertaining to the AFCCG. If you want to say his ball boys were acting according to his wishes for a softer ball, I can buy that. But at no point are they instructed to deflate lower than 12.5. In fact, just the opposite. After the Jets game when the balls were at 16 psi, they made sure to double check the rule book on inflation and make sure they were presented to the refs at 12.5 so they would not add any air and that was per Brady's request.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Here's another thing about this whole mess that just boils my clams. The Pats fans and others that have climbed all over Ryan Grigson for bringing up deflation in the first place. If he doesn't as a GM of an NFL team and knowingly looks the other way concerning violations of his team or another that is dereliction of his duties as said GM. To go farther out and lay blame at the hands of the Colts and/or one single individual charged with protecting the integrity of the game is flat-out lunacy. Maybe this has been touched on already, but it deserves being said a couple hundred times, IMO.

 

Yeah me too

 

Had the Patriots been an honest organization in the first place it would not of happened .  

 

Have'nt the Patriots ever pointed anything out to the league ?    Ever ?

 

If a G.M or coach is made aware of any violations it is there job & obligation to report it period ..

[buccolts]

Thank you so much for posting that. It's hilarious, and adequately depicts the vision in my head of The Patriot Way, and what's become the steriotypical Patriot fan.

[Jaric]

I disagree with the post. I do think the report casts aspersions against Brady but it fails to show him responsible for anything pertaining to the AFCCG. If you want to say his ball boys were acting according to his wishes for a softer ball, I can buy that. But at no point are they instructed to deflate lower than 12.5. In fact, just the opposite. After the Jets game when the balls were at 16 psi, they made sure to double check the rule book on inflation and make sure they were presented to the refs at 12.5 so they would not add any air and that was per Brady's request.

If the intention was to have the balls within the acceptable range, then why are they secretly taking balls into the bathroom to deflate them? The only reason to deflate the balls in secret is if you want to bypass the officials inspection.

[BProland85]

Here's to hoping Goodell comes down hard on the pats and Brady...I liked Rick venturi's take on this topic. He said this is more serious than what the saints, Browns, and falcons did. This gave Brady and their offense an advantage during cold weather games.

[aaron11]

I think Pats fans should be glad Goodell and not Colts fans are handling this. Anything less than blood isn't going to be enough for Colts fans.

They called for blood one year ago when irsay was in trouble. They can expect the same from us now. A brady suspension sound s about right for being generally aware of cheating on the field

[Jaric]

I was visiting the Patriots planet & I swear if you did'nt no better you would think multiplicity is a real phenomena everyone sounds just like am .

Lots of hate to go around on that site , They sound like drunken sailors there vitriol intense looking to blame the messenger .

Very few intelligent posts out side of the fanatical ..

I can count on 1 hand those that at least applied common sense .

I found 2 that I could share there was a lot of cussing in the other one the writer was mad but similar to this one .

I actually went thru the first 20 pages of there mega thread saw no point to continue any further ..

To be fair, you could show me video of Andrew Luck strangling hobos and I wouldn't believe.

[amfootball]

BTW, Don Yee has been everywhere this week - CNN, Mike and Mike, Dan Patrick and he was just on our local afternoon show. It is clear that he and Brady believe this report is bogus and will fight any league discipline.

[Superman]

Bottom line is, an investigation is over when there are either no more questions or the possibility to answer unanswered questions is exhausted.  Clearly, that wasn't the case and the failure to respond for more questions is, as you say, not full cooperation.

 

Look at it as a subpoena. You can't refuse to come in for depositions just because you've already been there a few times already. You can't refuse to testify just because "again? No, that's too much..." 

[shakedownstreet]

The only reason to deflate the balls in secret is if you want to bypass the officials inspection.

 

only porn stars deflate balls in full view of others