T.Y. must really be in the Texans' head.

[Qwiz]

Lockett? That doesn't check out. They moved up for McKinney. Maybe they were hoping for either Lockett or Strong in the third. That would explain why they jumped up again for Strong after Lockett was taken. 

Ahh. Maybe my "sources" had things confused lol.

[Qwiz]

The fact that Smiths job is safe after missing the playoffs twice as often as they go to the playoffs proves that the expectations are much lower in Houston than most other places.

And "reports" on a teams message board means less than zero

No. Our owner is patient and he sees the improvement and the potential that his team has. Those reports had sources, nobody pulled them out of their behind. Irsay of course isn't going to come out and say he didn't like Grigson's choices, but I do believe that he is impressed with the draft overall.

[Qwiz]

Yeah, they're the ones who pore over hours of tape, and work guys out, and have a staff of paid and trained employees to assist them in finding players. Not us.

 

It's just like any other profession. Yes, the pros might mess up sometimes, but they're still more qualified than all of us armchair guys. They have waaaaay more information, and as a rule, they're better at diagnosing situations in light of that information. 

Agreed. I guess we'll have to see how much of an impact Dorsett has in the future, and if Anderson proves to have the same impact as a first-round talent in the Colt defense.

[Superman]

Agreed. I guess we'll have to see how much of an impact Dorsett has in the future, and if Anderson proves to have the same impact as a first-round talent in the Colt defense.

 

Anderson is the type of player our front has never had, IMO. Having a 3-4 lineman who can get on the other side of the line of scrimmage is huge, and that's what I think he is. I am NOT comparing him to JJ Watt, but you know how important it is to have a disruptor in the front 7. Not just a block eater / lane clogger (which is what Goldman is, and what Brown is supposed to be, but not really). My question is whether he can play with a better base and still be disruptive. If so, he'll be a difference maker right away.

[Qwiz]

Anderson is the type of player our front has never had, IMO. Having a 3-4 lineman who can get on the other side of the line of scrimmage is huge, and that's what I think he is. I am NOT comparing him to JJ Watt, but you know how important it is to have a disruptor in the front 7. Not just a block eater / lane clogger (which is what Goldman is, and what Brown is supposed to be, but not really). My question is whether he can play with a better base and still be disruptive. If so, he'll be a difference maker right away.

Yeah, the Colts definitely needed a joker who can cause chaos at the line of scrimmage. It should work wonders in disrupting the pass and helping the run defense. I've heard about how nonstop Anderson's motor is so the Colts should have a player to look forward to on their hands.

[SDakColts]

I'm just saying I don't like it. I'm not trying to make anyone take my side. I just don't like it I will hope for him to be good but I won't ever like the pick no matter what he turns out to be. I've said many times I have no problem with Dorsett as a player I wish him the best it's not his fault Grigson drafted him.

That is a terrible mindset to have IMO. You are telling me if Dorsett becomes a perennial 1200 yard 10 TD receiver you will still hate the pick. Wow someone really isn't happy.

[BlueCollarColts]

Sure. If you want to put all your eggs in your GMs ratings basket.

Who's should I subscribe to? What makes Kiper's any better than Grigs?

[Qwiz]

Who's should I subscribe to? What makes Kiper's any better than Grigs?

 Nevermind. It's a matter of opinion.

[amfootball]

If Grigson's job depends on getting the first round right, then drafting BPA makes even more sense. If he believes Dorsett has a better chance of becoming an elite player at his position -- which he obviously does -- then it makes more sense to stake his claim to Dorsett.

 

End of the day, I don't think that's really what Grigson's job performance is being graded on. I think it's about raising all sails, and again, the draft allows you to do that when you stick to your scouting. When you reach for need, you're passing on players that you yourself think are better, and in that case, why scout? If you spend months and months evaluating players, and then you ignore the results of that evaluation process, why do it in the first place? That's like doing a taste test, then buying your second favorite choice because it's more filling. 

 

To the bolded, you all keep going back to this, but then you'll talk about the AFCCG. The game where we scored 7 points, didn't threaten the end zone otherwise, and could hardly pick up a first down. Where Luck had plenty of time, but no one was open. We keep talking about need and basing it on the AFCCG, and the biggest need we had in the third quarter -- where the game was decided -- was to get a first down and sustain a drive. Three quick possessions, two completions, one interception... Just as troubling as the run defense was the offense's inability to move the ball. This, the best scoring offense in the league for most of the season.

I am surprised you are looking at the title game so simplistically. First, the weather was horrible. A bad night overall for trying to throw with the pouring rain especially in the second half when it was cats and dogs. Second, Irsay has been trumpeting a run game to try to off load the pressure on Luck and has yet to establish the line or RB to get that done. My point being, I am not sure how adding another receiver helps you with an offense that was already predicated on the  pass. If anything, getting better up front would help BOTH the pass game and run game. And lastly, you got down 14-0 in a heart beat due to your STs as they got everything rolling with the muffed punt. Once you went down two scores and your defense could not stop the run, your offense had to drop back and pass which is basically the death nail vs a Belichick defense no matter if you had 4 Jerry Rice's out there.

 

And again I bring you back to what you always say, you should never build your team based on one opponent or base team building strategies off of one game. The Colts offense was a lot better than its defense all season. I am not sure that can be disputed at all. To compete and win vs the Pats or Ravens or Steelers or Seahawks you will need a better defense.

[jvan1973]

I am surprised you are looking at the title game so simplistically. First, the weather was horrible. A bad night overall for trying to throw with the pouring rain especially in the second half when it was cats and dogs. Second, Irsay has been trumpeting a run game to try to off load the pressure on Luck and has yet to establish the line or RB to get that done. My point being, I am not sure how adding another receiver helps you with an offense that was already predicated on the pass. If anything, getting better up front would help BOTH the pass game and run game. And lastly, you got down 14-0 in a heart beat due to your STs as they got everything rolling with the muffed punt. Once you went down two scores and your defense could not stop the run, your offense had to drop back and pass which is basically the death nail vs a Belichick defense no matter if you had 4 Jerry Rice's out there.

And again I bring you back to what you always say, you should never build your team based on one opponent or base team building strategies off of one game. The Colts offense was a lot better than its defense all season. I am not sure that can be disputed at all. To compete and win vs the Pats or Ravens or Steelers or Seahawks you will need a better defense.

the colts beat the ravens last year and the Seahawks the year before

[amfootball]

the colts beat the ravens last year and the Seahawks the year before

I was talking about the post-season ...

[Superman]

I am surprised you are looking at the title game so simplistically. First, the weather was horrible. A bad night overall for trying to throw with the pouring rain especially in the second half when it was cats and dogs. Second, Irsay has been trumpeting a run game to try to off load the pressure on Luck and has yet to establish the line or RB to get that done. My point being, I am not sure how adding another receiver helps you with an offense that was already predicated on the  pass. If anything, getting better up front would help BOTH the pass game and run game. And lastly, you got down 14-0 in a heart beat due to your STs as they got everything rolling with the muffed punt. Once you went down two scores and your defense could not stop the run, your offense had to drop back and pass which is basically the death nail vs a Belichick defense no matter if you had 4 Jerry Rice's out there.

 

And again I bring you back to what you always say, you should never build your team based on one opponent or base team building strategies off of one game. The Colts offense was a lot better than its defense all season. I am not sure that can be disputed at all. To compete and win vs the Pats or Ravens or Steelers or Seahawks you will need a better defense.

 

Oh, AM... Let's start from the bottom.

 

The Colts added a really good cover corner, a disruptive, penetrating DE/DT, and a physical safety with range. We shed some of the older and less effective players on the defense and added some players in free agency that should improve our run defense and pass rush. And hopefully, our coaches will make some adjustments (something Irsay mentioned Saturday was the schematic approach). So we all know the Colts need to have a better defense, and they very well might. (I'll throw in that we beat the Ravens in 2014, and the Seahawks in 2013.)

 

Some of your other points: Special teams screwed us; Dorsett replaces Cribbs. Adding another receiver helps the offense because now we have a better receiving corps and more depth. On paper, we ARE better up front, on both sides of the ball, and we have a better set of backs to run the ball.

 

I find it rather amusing that you claim I'm looking at the AFCCG simplistically, when you're entire point has been 'the Colts couldn't stop the Pats run game, so they needed to draft a defensive player in the first round.' I'm not saying that adding a receiver means we beat the Pats. I'm saying that if we're going to talk about how bad the run defense was, why wouldn't we talk about how bad the passing game was?

 

Again, just like always, our draft strategy wasn't based on our failings against one team. When I say "the passing game was just as big a factor as the run defense," it probably sounds like I'm accepting the premise that our drafting should have been based on trying to beat the Patriots. I'm not. I reject that premise. Based on your scouting, you draft the best players you can, within certain parameters. You don't draft to beat one team.

[Superman]

I was talking about the post-season ...

 

We haven't played either team in the postseason since 2012. But if the Ravens had knocked off the Pats and come to Indy in 2014, the Colts would have had a great shot at going to the Super Bowl.

[amfootball]

Oh, AM... Let's start from the bottom.

 

The Colts added a really good cover corner, a disruptive, penetrating DE/DT, and a physical safety with range. We shed some of the older and less effective players on the defense and added some players in free agency that should improve our run defense and pass rush. And hopefully, our coaches will make some adjustments (something Irsay mentioned Saturday was the schematic approach). So we all know the Colts need to have a better defense, and they very well might. (I'll throw in that we beat the Ravens in 2014, and the Seahawks in 2013.)

 

Some of your other points: Special teams screwed us; Dorsett replaces Cribbs. Adding another receiver helps the offense because now we have a better receiving corps and more depth. On paper, we ARE better up front, on both sides of the ball, and we have a better set of backs to run the ball.

 

I find it rather amusing that you claim I'm looking at the AFCCG simplistically, when you're entire point has been 'the Colts couldn't stop the Pats run game, so they needed to draft a defensive player in the first round.' I'm not saying that adding a receiver means we beat the Pats. I'm saying that if we're going to talk about how bad the run defense was, why wouldn't we talk about how bad the passing game was?

 

Again, just like always, our draft strategy wasn't based on our failings against one team. When I say "the passing game was just as big a factor as the run defense," it probably sounds like I'm accepting the premise that our drafting should have been based on trying to beat the Patriots. I'm not. I reject that premise. Based on your scouting, you draft the best players you can, within certain parameters. You don't draft to beat one team.

This is probably futile to keep going round and round. BUT I have not once said that the Colts needed to draft defense to beat the Pats. I have been saying the opposite actually and arguing against using one game the AFCCG as a some type of justification for selecting a receiver in the first round. There is no question that the Colts offense was better than its defense and that after FA ended it was the defense in particular the line and safety that needed to be addressed. And that really has been the thrust of my entire argument. I think the Colts got better this off-season but Pagano is going to be a lame duck coach, Irsay emphasized the run defense and yet with pick number one they take a WR. Number one picks are like gold. The most talent in the draft exists in round one to draft both BPA and need.

[amfootball]

We haven't played either team in the postseason since 2012. But if the Ravens had knocked off the Pats and come to Indy in 2014, the Colts would have had a great shot at going to the Super Bowl.

Sure but again, you have not beaten teams like that in the post-season ...

[Vance]

Draft a cornerback in round 1 and then try to trade back into the first for a T.Y. carbon copy?

Yeah, he's gettin' to them.

 

LOL, yes, drafting defensive players to stop good offensive players (ever heard of Luck?) means they are "in our heads".

 

And by the way, the Patriots are so deep in your heads they can't even see daylight anymore.

[aaron11]

I get that but come on, WR?? The Colts were in the conference title game and were clearly not able to compete on the lines. I have not understood what Grigson has been doing from FA right through the draft. The Colts are close, real close to being that team in the AFC but not with the lines. I guess we will see how things pan out with the linemen you did take. But the WR pick is unjustifiable IMO unless you think TY might be gone??

it wasnt so much the lines, but bad playcalling and coaching that kept us out of the pats games.  why did we abandon the run when herron was getting 5 ypc?  why were defenders out of position and taking bad angles to the ball carrier?  why did we not make better half time adjustments?  why didnt we draw up plays to get recievers open, rather than throw it deep into heavy coverage?

 

the talent was there all along, bad game plans and coaching adjustments hurt the team more than a lack of talent on the lines did last year.

 

edit-forgot to mention, why did the coaches struggle to understand what was going on when the refs stated an o line man has checked in as an eligeble reciever?

[Superman]

LOL, yes, drafting defensive players to stop good offensive players (ever heard of Luck?) means they are "in our heads".

 

And by the way, the Patriots are so deep in your heads they can't even see daylight anymore.

 

I love how these Texans fans are just riding on the accomplishments of the Pats. 

 

"Yeah, we can't beat you, but the Pats can!" 

[Superman]

Sure but again, you have not beaten teams like that in the post-season ...

 

'You never have before, so you never will.' 

 

We'll see.

[BlueCollarColts]

I said this earlier, it's not talent that's stopping the Colts from preventing 200 yard rush games from the Pats, it's scheme, that doesn't get fixed with drafting a lineman in the first round...

[Qwiz]

LOL, yes, drafting defensive players to stop good offensive players (ever heard of Luck?) means they are "in our heads".

And by the way, the Patriots are so deep in your heads they can't even see daylight anymore.

Too much psychology going on in this thread

[Qwiz]

I said this earlier, it's not talent that's stopping the Colts from preventing 200 yard rush games from the Pats, it's scheme, that doesn't get fixed with drafting a linemen in the first round...

It's gotta be talent too. Your defenive scheme has changed but the method of the Patriots madness stays the same through the past few years.

[Superman]

it was the defense in particular the line and safety that needed to be addressed. 

 

The Colts at one point drafted four straight defensive players. Two linemen, a safety, and a cover corner. The preoccupation with the first round is amazing. I totally understand how valuable first rounders are, and that's the very reason you don't take lesser players out of a desire to address need. 

[BlueCollarColts]

It's gotta be talent too. Your defenive scheme has changed but the method of the Patriots madness stays the same through the past few years.

Maybe slightly talent but it's mostly scheme. The Pats don't have some dominant rushing game that is top 5 in the NFL...

[Vance]

Too much psychology going on in this thread

 

I think the argument is stupid. That's like saying the Jets building a strong defense to counter Brady means he's "In their heads". No lol, it just means they're smart...

[krunk]

The part you keep missing is the Pats took a player to fill one of their biggest needs while the Colts took a player that was a strength on their team.

 

The Colts looked at who could impact the game the most and there was no one available at that pick who could do that more than Dorsett, plus the pick addressed a couple needs we did have.  The first need was to ensure that no one(namely the Pats) would be able to double team our play makers without paying for it big time.  If T.Y. is doubled now you have Andre Johnson, Moncrief, and Dorsett to deal with.  The second need Dorsett filled was giving us a non washed up(Cribbs was washed up) play maker at PR and KR.  

 

Dorsett is able to help the team more right now then Malcolm Brown would have, plus I think Henry Anderson is right on par with Brown so we still came out pretty good. If we take Brown then I don't think we get Dorsett.  Personally I didn't see many other receivers in that draft that commanded the double team, plus the added dimension Dorsett offers on kick and punt return.  Some mentioned Tyler Lockett, but I think NFL teams won't have that much of an issue covering him one on one.

 

I didn't have any problem with the pick after I put thought into it. The biggest issue with our offensive lines was lack of continuity due to injuries for the most part.  We've gotten guys back from injury and added there during FA and one guy at the end of the draft.  We've got two or 3 good tackles and we're deep at guard.  People say that was our biggest need but it was mostly addressed in FA and us getting guys back.  I think we picked up two real solid backs in Gore and Josh Robinson to go along with that so we should be pretty improved in the running game.  The things people say we desperately needed were a bit overblown if you ask me.

[amfootball]

The Colts at one point drafted four straight defensive players. Two linemen, a safety, and a cover corner. The preoccupation with the first round is amazing. I totally understand how valuable first rounders are, and that's the very reason you don't take lesser players out of a desire to address need. 

I get that. I have only been discussing the first round because those are your most ready starters to make an impact on day one and hopefully for years to come.

[lollygagger8]

I think once we as fans see Dorsett blazing past the opposing secondaries we will be glad he's on the Colts, and not on the Texans/Pats/etc.  

[dw49]

The Colts looked at who could impact the game the most and there was no one available at that pick who could do that more than Dorsett, plus the pick addressed a couple needs we did have.  The first need was to ensure that no one(namely the Pats) would be able to double team our play makers without paying for it big time.  If T.Y. is doubled now you have Andre Johnson, Moncrief, and Dorsett to deal with.  The second need Dorsett filled was giving us a non washed up(Cribbs was washed up) play maker at PR and KR.  

 

Dorsett is able to help the team more right now then Malcolm Brown would have, plus I think Henry Anderson is right on par with Brown so we still came out pretty good. If we take Brown then I don't think we get Dorsett.  Personally I didn't see many other receivers in that draft that commanded the double team, plus the added dimension Dorsett offers on kick and punt return.  Some mentioned Tyler Lockett, but I think NFL teams won't have that much of an issue covering him one on one.

 

I didn't have any problem with the pick after I put thought into it. The biggest issue with our offensive lines was lack of continuity due to injuries for the most part.  We've gotten guys back from injury and added there during FA and one guy at the end of the draft.  We've got two or 3 good tackles and we're deep at guard.  People say that was our biggest need but it was mostly addressed in FA and us getting guys back.  I think we picked up two real solid backs in Gore and Josh Robinson to go along with that so we should be pretty improved in the running game.  The things people say we desperately needed were a bit overblown if you ask me.

 

 

Kruk.. proud of you . Well thought out.. your best post ever.

[krunk]

Kruk.. proud of you . Well thought out.. your best post ever.

 

Thanks!  Also if we take Brown in the 1st we would be violating our board. We had him graded as a second round prospect.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

What's the Colts record against the Patriots the past few years? Do they have an all-pro QB yet? Oh wait.

 

Whats the Texans record in Lucas Oil Stadium ?    And how many times have the Texans beat the Patriots ? 

 

 

At the end of the day my Colts have been very active in the playoffs & have been in 2 Superbowls with great success comes years of Captain Comebacks .

 

The Indianapolis Colts versus the New England Patriots rivalry has a long history .

 

While your showing your support for the Patriots consider this you only cheer for them because your team very seldom gets that far ,

[Resplash]

Sure but again, you have not beaten teams like that in the post-season ...

Broncos?

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

 Number one picks are like gold. The most talent in the draft exists in round one to draft both BPA and need.

 

 

Was'nt Drew Bledsoe a number 1 pick ? Anyhow

 

I believe your

 

 

The most talent in the draft exists in round one to draft both BPA and need

 

 

The most busts as well .       T-rich & RG3 were at the top of the 2012 draft haha

 

 

   ...   Simply put over many seasons it has been made abundantly clear that a sixth round pick can be every bit as good as the very first pick in the draft .

 

Everyone expected great things from Peyton Manning & Andrew Luck but then again Ryan Leaf & RG3 were touted as there equals .

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder in life & the NFL  No Guarantees . IMO  Tom Brady proves you wrong ..   

[ColtsBlueFL]

Your coach brought him in, regardless of his last cut. The second guy is a high-round pick who needs playing time to develop. You have a picture of Andre as your avatar so I'm sure you know Grigson believed in him enough to give him a four year deal. But yeah, ignore the big defensive tackle and go offense first. That really worked for Polian.

 

T.Y. and Moncrief were both 3rd rounders.  Grigson happy to get them.  Even traded back into late 3rd for T.Y.  Taken  #92 and #90 overall in their drafts. And the same guy that scouted and landed that talent is excited to get another WR, not in the late 3rd round like those other two, put 60 picks ahead of where they went and in round 1?  A guy he said was way above next listed player?  Grigson must feel this guy is potential All Pro material, if not Hall of Famer.  Otherwise he wouldn't have graded him so high and might  have tried to find a T.Y./Dorsett clone later in round 3 like he has done twice before.  He sees something, I trust him.

 

So, Matt Hasselbeck will be gone next year.  So do we draft either QB's Patrick Towles or Cody Kessler in round two next year, amfootball?

[Qwiz]

Whats the Texans record in Lucas Oil Stadium ?    And how many times have the Texans beat the Patriots ? 

 

 

At the end of the day my Colts have been very active in the playoffs & have been in 2 Superbowls with great success comes years of Captain Comebacks .

 

The Indianapolis Colts versus the New England Patriots rivalry has a long history .

 

While your showing your support for the Patriots consider this you only cheer for them because your team very seldom gets that far ,

You're fifteen pages late. No it doesn't. I used the Patriots as an example, for the umpteenth time, to demonstrate how much terrible logic was being used. The Texans have beaten the Colts more recently then the Colts have beaten the Patriots, and I wouldn't call the Patriots/Colts a rivalry right now.

[Qwiz]

T.Y. and Moncrief were both 3rd rounders.  Grigson happy to get them.  Even traded back into lae 3rd for T.Y.  Taken  #92 and #90 overall in their drafts. And the same guy that scouted and landed that talent is excited to get another WR, not in the late 3rd round like those other two, put 60 picks ahead of where they went and in round 1?  A guy he said was way above next listed player?  Grigson must feel this guy is potential All Pro material, if not Hall of Famer.  Otherwise he wouldn't have graded him so high and might  have tried to find a T.Y./Dorsett clone later in round 3 like he has done twice before.  He sees something, I trust him.

 

So, Matt Hasselbeck will be gone next year.  So do we draft either QB's Patrick Towles or Cody Kessler in round two next year, amfootball?

Maybe the guy has a vision. I'm not complaining though, lol, I was thinking the Colts would get a big DT or some other big impact offensive linemen to help counter our defense. Now I just have to keep an eye on the Anderson kid, if he turns out to be as good as a lot of people make him out to be.

[csmopar]

Yes, I have only been talking about the first round which is the round that the best talent is available to fill the most pressing needs.

 

 

Um..okay...by that view, Tom Brady sucks and has his entire career because he was a 6 rounder.... draft position means squat....There are tons of wash outs from first rounders just are there are tons of wash outs from any of the other rounds.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

You're fifteen pages late. No it doesn't. I used the Patriots as an example, for the umpteenth time, to demonstrate how much terrible logic was being used. The Texans have beaten the Colts more recently then the Colts have beaten the Patriots, and I wouldn't call the Patriots/Colts a rivalry right now.

 

Or 9 pages early according to your math .

 

The Colts & Patriots played there first game in 1970  , 45 years later a rivalry exists with the Patriots having I believe around 48 wins & the Colts somewhere around I believe 28 .

 

The Texans beating the Colts ?   Recently ?  put that on a banner its worth a few laughs ,  For 2 seasons the Texans had proved how good they are yet the AFC South Champions of 2011 & 2012 are known for lil else

 

While the Colts went 11-5 3 seasons in a row starting in 2012  with a new QB we have lost a few but they meant very little in the big picture .

[Superman]

I get that. I have only been discussing the first round because those are your most ready starters to make an impact on day one and hopefully for years to come.

 

Meh. Players outside of the first round outperform first rounders all the time, on both sides of the ball. You can't act like the Colts didn't do anything about defense just because they didn't in the first round.

[amfootball]

Um..okay...by that view, Tom Brady sucks and has his entire career because he was a 6 rounder.... draft position means squat....There are tons of wash outs from first rounders just are there are tons of wash outs from any of the other rounds.

No, that is why Brady is considered one of the biggest draft steals of all time.