T.Y. must really be in the Texans' head.

[jskinnz]

BTW, it looks like all the draft guys almost across the aboard had the Colts draft at a C grade, http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2015/05/02/links-how-experts-analysts-are-grading-indianapolis-colts-draft-picks-day-3-nfl-draft/26797365/

 

Dear God...

 

That entire process of grading a draft in the moments immediately following is a monumental waste of time.

[Superman]

lol. You are reaching big time with this one. The Pats generally only carry 2 QBs, has been this way since 2007 so having a quality back up is paramount. It was known prior to the 2014 draft that the Pats were not big on Mallett being their guy and were looking to trade him. In the Colts situation, your receiving corp is the strength of the team AND you added AJ in FA so to pick a receiver in the first round makes zero sense. Sure, he could be a good player but given the state of your defense, it would have made more sense to go with line or safety there.

 

And as I have said all along, we will see how it pans out but this move by Grigson could be one that costs him his job if the defense still looks the same in 2015 and Brown blossoms. The irony is unbelievable on this one in terms of how the Pats/Colts are linked. I look forward to see how both players progress especially when the two teams face each other ...

 

I'm not reaching. You're being disingenuous. 

 

No one uses second round picks to draft backup QBs, especially not teams with All World QBs. Whether they liked Mallett or not, there's a world of difference between "guy you don't like" and "let's use a high draft pick on a backup QB." There's late round draft picks, there's veteran FAs, etc. The Pats drafted JG because they like him, despite the fact that he won't play under ordinary, foreseeable circumstances. Talk about a position of strength... you start with the teams that have franchise QBs. So it's okay for the Pats to use a second round pick for a player who plays a position of strength but will likely NEVER play, but it's wrong for the Colts to use a first round pick for a player who plays a position of strength and likely will play...? No, you're just being a homer.

 

The truth is that those two moves are very alike. The difference being that Dorsett is more likely to contribute for the Colts than JG is for the Pats. Not only do multiple receivers play in each game, but injuries are more likely for the players ahead of Dorsett on the depth chart. QBs like Brady rarely miss time due to injury. JG is a bench warmer, Dorsett will play more snaps in 2015 than JG probably will in his entire rookie contract. He'll probably play more snaps than Brown will for the Pats in 2015.

 

I agree that it would have made more sense to take a lineman or a safety. That doesn't mean that it makes zero sense to take a WR. They took the best player on the board, according to their months of scouting. That is a proven, tried and true principle of drafting. "Don't reach for need, take the best player." That's the best way to increase the overall talent level on your team so that you can build a consistent winning program. 

[Superman]

The colts don't play the patriots every week. 

 

 

Sometimes, that seems like such a transcendent concept.

[amfootball]

I agree that it would have made more sense to take a lineman or a safety. That doesn't mean that it makes zero sense to take a WR. They took the best player on the board, according to their months of scouting. That is a proven, tried and true principle of drafting. "Don't reach for need, take the best player." That's the best way to increase the overall talent level on your team so that you can build a consistent winning program. 

Ok, so we agree than according to your first sentence anyways. The reason I said "zero sense" or more to the point have been so strong on this pick is because Grigson has missed on two other first rounders. As a GM, you have to hit the first round and what seems really, really odd about this selection is how deep the draft was at WR. That is the part that really seems over the top IMO. Your offense led the league in scoring most of the year. If anything, it would have been good to draft Oline if not defense to protect Luck so he could distribute the ball to all the skill guys.

[Superman]

BTW, it looks like all the draft guys almost across the aboard had the Colts draft at a C grade, http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2015/05/02/links-how-experts-analysts-are-grading-indianapolis-colts-draft-picks-day-3-nfl-draft/26797365/

 

Cherry picked. http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/3/8540925/nfl-draft-2015-grades-afc-south-jaguars-colts-texans-titans

 

But really, so what? Draft grades are senseless.

[amfootball]

Cherry picked. http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/5/3/8540925/nfl-draft-2015-grades-afc-south-jaguars-colts-texans-titans

 

But really, so what? Draft grades are senseless.

Yeah, they are pretty pointless but then again why have the draft if you don't surmise how you think a team did or will do ...

[dw49]

BTW, it looks like all the draft guys almost across the aboard had the Colts draft at a C grade, http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2015/05/02/links-how-experts-analysts-are-grading-indianapolis-colts-draft-picks-day-3-nfl-draft/26797365/

 

 

I don't know how your reading that Indy star stuff . When I go to it they say its not available unless I buy a subscription. I read the grades at fox sports , cvs sorts , nil.com and just about all of them had it from B- to B. I'm too beat up on this nonsense to start posting links , so as I don't lie a whole lot when I post , I'll assume you believe it or will just go look them up.

[Qwiz]

Yet that doesn't apply to a 34 year old Andre Johnson?

Oh yeah, Carter and Donte play defense, I forgot.

[dw49]

Yeah, they are pretty pointless but then again why have the draft if you don't surmise how you think a team did or will do ...

 

 

I guess Superman's post kind of backs up what I was saying ? Most had the Colts at around a B... no ?

[Qwiz]

Is this thread about the Patriots or Texans? Oh wait the Texans. I forgot your "2nd favorite team is the Patriots" because the Texans can't ever beat the Colts.

I was pointing out how terrible your logic was, regardless of what team we are discussing. Pay attention.

[Qwiz]

Well the fact that you are with those two does not mean you are keeping good company.

It's better company than a lot of others here keep, that's for sure.

[BlueCollarColts]

Oh yeah, Carter and Donte play defense, I forgot.

Carter hasn't played an NFL down and was cut from his last team, and Moncrief is far from a sure thing... So what's your point?

[amfootball]

I guess Superman's post kind of backs up what I was saying ? Most had the Colts at around a B... no ?

The link I shared had about a half dozen analysts giving them around a C. Depends who you read I suppose.

[Qwiz]

Carter hasn't played an NFL down and was cut from his last team, and Moncrief is far from a sure thing... So what's your point?

Your coach brought him in, regardless of his last cut. The second guy is a high-round pick who needs playing time to develop. You have a picture of Andre as your avatar so I'm sure you know Grigson believed in him enough to give him a four year deal. But yeah, ignore the big defensive tackle and go offense first. That really worked for Polian.

[pgt_rob]

The link I shared had about a half dozen analysts giving them around a C. Depends who you read I suppose.

 

All matters of opinion. It doesn't amount to anything.

[BlueCollarColts]

Your coach brought him in, regardless of his last cut. The second guy is a high-round pick who needs playing time to develop. You have a picture of Andre as your avatar so I'm sure you know Grigson believed in him enough to give him a four year deal. But yeah, ignore the big defensive tackle and go offense first. That really worked for Polian.

Yea if there is a receiver left who I think is the 15th best player there and the linemen are 2nd round quality, give me the receiver every time. I can get similar quality linemen later, or Henry Anderson... Just like we did.

[Qwiz]

Yea if there is a receiver left who I think is the 15th best player there and the linemen are 2nd round quality, give me the receiver every time. I can get similar quality linemen later, or Henry Anderson... Just like we did.

Lockett could've been had in the second, hell, for all we know Dorsett could've been had in the second. Texans did pretty good too nabbing Strong in the third. *internet high five*

[dw49]

Ok, so we agree than according to your first sentence anyways. The reason I said "zero sense" or more to the point have been so strong on this pick is because Grigson has missed on two other first rounders. As a GM, you have to hit the first round and what seems really, really odd about this selection is how deep the draft was at WR. That is the part that really seems over the top IMO. Your offense led the league in scoring most of the year. If anything, it would have been good to draft Oline if not defense to protect Luck so he could distribute the ball to all the skill guys.

 

 

Grigson missed on Werner , he traded the other one. I mean you can say that Vonte Davis was worth a first and a second but that wouldn't have anything to do with his drafting proficiency .. Imo anyways. 

 

BTW.. how's that first rounder BB drafted last year so far ? Seems like he went at pick 1.29 last year. Pretty close to where the Colts picked this year . I mean that guy is a defensive player picked by the smartest GM in NFL history at the exact slot the Colts picked in this year. Do you think Bill would trade Easley for Dorsett ? 

 

Point is GM's miss on picks like 1.29 all the time . Very often there really isn't a player that good at the position you need . So do you take a guy like Easley to sit behind Wilford who you probably will let go the following year or draft a player like Dorsett who could be a pro bowl WR ? 

[BlueCollarColts]

Lockett could've been had in the second, hell, for all we know Dorsett could've been had in the second. Texans did pretty good too nabbing Strong in the third. *internet high five*

And for what we know Grigs had Dorsett rated much higher than both of them. Which is why I don't fault the choice? Will he be that good? Who knows but if he is I don't blame the selection at all.

[jvan1973]

Your coach brought him in, regardless of his last cut. The second guy is a high-round pick who needs playing time to develop. You have a picture of Andre as your avatar so I'm sure you know Grigson believed in him enough to give him a four year deal. But yeah, ignore the big defensive tackle and go offense first. That really worked for Polian.

It worked a lot better than any strategy the Texans have used

[Qwiz]

And for what we know Grigs had Dorsett rated much higher than both of them. Which is why I don't fault the choice? Will he be that good? Who knows but if he is I don't blame the selection at all.

Sure. If you want to put all your eggs in your GMs ratings basket.

[Qwiz]

It worked a lot better than any strategy the Texans have used

That explains why Rick Smith has a job and Polian doesn't.

[jvan1973]

Sure. If you want to put all your eggs in your GMs ratings basket.

yeah, that's how the draft works. The GM makes the picks

[amfootball]

Grigson missed on Werner , he traded the other one. I mean you can say that Vonte Davis was worth a first and a second but that wouldn't have anything to do with his drafting proficiency .. Imo anyways. 

 

BTW.. how's that first rounder BB drafted last year so far ? Seems like he went at pick 1.29 last year. Pretty close to where the Colts picked this year . I mean that guy is a defensive player picked by the smartest GM in NFL history at the exact slot the Colts picked in this year. Do you think Bill would trade Easley for Dorsett ? 

 

Point is GM's miss on picks like 1.29 all the time . Very often there really isn't a player that good at the position you need . So do you take a guy like Easley to sit behind Wilford who you probably will let go the following year or draft a player like Dorsett who could be a pro bowl WR ? 

Yeah, team building is fascinating, isn't it? They were commenting today on the radio on Bill's second round selections over the years given he has reached on safeties the last couple taking Harmon last year and Richards this year and Wilson three years ago. Since 2000 he has had bull eyes in round 2 with Matt Light, Deion Branch, Gronk, Vereen and complete misses with Ros I Dowling, Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson.

 

I think maybe where Bill gets an advantage is the in-season moves to improve his team. Getting Talib a few years ago for a 4 was brilliant and almost put them back in the title game. Getting Ayers and Casilias along with Blount last year helped solidify positions that were decimated by injury to key players. He seems to know the right guys for his scheme and then is able to coach them up which is the benefit of being GM and coach.

 

I think with 4 trophies, Bill has amazing latitude although he still gets criticized a lot around here by our media. I think for Grigson, his margin is razor thin. Expectations are sky high given you have Luck and he has had some key misses which get magnified. In a lot of ways it is unfair but in the NFL everything comes down to wins and rings ...

[Qwiz]

yeah, that's how the draft works. The GM makes the picks

Good to see you're learning.

[jvan1973]

That explains why Rick Smith has a job and Polian doesn't.

Polian could have a job as a GM if he wanted one. He is retired and making big money from espn and he doesn't have to work many hours. The bills offered him the

GM job this off season

[Qwiz]

Polian could have a job as a GM if he wanted one. He is retired and making big money from espn and he doesn't have to work many hours. The bills offered him the

GM job this off season

Still doesn't change the fact that he got fired in the first place.

[jvan1973]

Still doesn't change the fact that he got fired in the first place.

Bill Belichick and Pete Carrol have been fired in the past as well. Whats your point? Rick Smith still has a job because the standard of winning is less in Houston. Grigsons teams have went to the playoffs more times in three years than Smiths team has in 9 years

[Superman]

Ok, so we agree than according to your first sentence anyways. The reason I said "zero sense" or more to the point have been so strong on this pick is because Grigson has missed on two other first rounders. As a GM, you have to hit the first round and what seems really, really odd about this selection is how deep the draft was at WR. That is the part that really seems over the top IMO. Your offense led the league in scoring most of the year. If anything, it would have been good to draft Oline if not defense to protect Luck so he could distribute the ball to all the skill guys.

 

If Grigson's job depends on getting the first round right, then drafting BPA makes even more sense. If he believes Dorsett has a better chance of becoming an elite player at his position -- which he obviously does -- then it makes more sense to stake his claim to Dorsett.

 

End of the day, I don't think that's really what Grigson's job performance is being graded on. I think it's about raising all sails, and again, the draft allows you to do that when you stick to your scouting. When you reach for need, you're passing on players that you yourself think are better, and in that case, why scout? If you spend months and months evaluating players, and then you ignore the results of that evaluation process, why do it in the first place? That's like doing a taste test, then buying your second favorite choice because it's more filling. 

 

To the bolded, you all keep going back to this, but then you'll talk about the AFCCG. The game where we scored 7 points, didn't threaten the end zone otherwise, and could hardly pick up a first down. Where Luck had plenty of time, but no one was open. We keep talking about need and basing it on the AFCCG, and the biggest need we had in the third quarter -- where the game was decided -- was to get a first down and sustain a drive. Three quick possessions, two completions, one interception... Just as troubling as the run defense was the offense's inability to move the ball. This, the best scoring offense in the league for most of the season.

[Qwiz]

Bill Belichick and Pete Carrol have been fired in the past as well. Whats your point? Rick Smith still has a job because the standard of winning is less in Houston. Grigsons teams have went to the playoffs more times in three years than Smiths team has in 9 years

Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll have jobs running high quality franchises. They know how and what players to draft. Harp on Grigson all you want, but Smith's job wasn't being called into question going into this draft.

[Superman]

Yeah, they are pretty pointless but then again why have the draft if you don't surmise how you think a team did or will do ...

 

I don't have a problem with people analyzing drafts. I just don't think their grades are worth the time it takes to read them.

[Superman]

Sure. If you want to put all your eggs in your GMs ratings basket.

 

Nah, let's let this board figure out who to draft...

[jvan1973]

Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll have jobs running high quality franchises. They know how and what players to draft. Harp on Grigson all you want, but Smith's job wasn't being called into question going into this draft.

Thanks for proving my point.

And grigsons job wasn't in question either

[Superman]

Lockett could've been had in the second, hell, for all we know Dorsett could've been had in the second. Texans did pretty good too nabbing Strong in the third. *internet high five*

 

Texans and Pats reportedly had a deal ready so the Texans could take him at #32, so...

[Qwiz]

Nah, let's let this board figure out who to draft...

My point is that GMs could be off in their rankings too. They're paid to do it, though, so yeah.

[Qwiz]

Thanks for proving my point.

And grigsons job wasn't in question either

What point did I prove? And yeah I'm pretty sure I've heard reports of either Grigsin or Pagano being in trouble on this very board.

[Qwiz]

Texans and Pats reportedly had a deal ready so the Texans could take him at #32, so...

Reportedly. I also heard that the Texans wanted Lockett instead, but decided to wait because they believed he could be had in the second.

[Superman]

Reportedly. I also heard that the Texans wanted Lockett instead, but decided to wait because they believed he could be had in the second.

 

Lockett? That doesn't check out. They moved up for McKinney. Maybe they were hoping for either Lockett or Strong in the third. That would explain why they jumped up again for Strong after Lockett was taken. 

[jvan1973]

What point did I prove? And yeah I'm pretty sure I've heard reports of either Grigsin or Pagano being in trouble on this very board.

The fact that Smiths job is safe after missing the playoffs twice as often as they go to the playoffs proves that the expectations are much lower in Houston than most other places.

And "reports" on a teams message board means less than zero

[Superman]

My point is that GMs could be off in their rankings too. They're paid to do it, though, so yeah.

 

Yeah, they're the ones who pore over hours of tape, and work guys out, and have a staff of paid and trained employees to assist them in finding players. Not us.

 

It's just like any other profession. Yes, the pros might mess up sometimes, but they're still more qualified than all of us armchair guys. They have waaaaay more information, and as a rule, they're better at diagnosing situations in light of that information.