T.Y. must really be in the Texans' head.

[amfootball]

You can't act like the Colts didn't do anything about defense just because they didn't in the first round.

That has never been my point.

[Qwiz]

Or 9 pages early according to your math .

 

The Colts & Patriots played there first game in 1970  , 45 years later a rivalry exists with the Patriots having I believe around 48 wins & the Colts somewhere around I believe 28 .

 

The Texans beating the Colts ?   Recently ?  put that on a banner its worth a few laughs ,  For 2 seasons the Texans had proved how good they are yet the AFC South Champions of 2011 & 2012 are known for lil else

 

While the Colts went 11-5 3 seasons in a row starting in 2012  with a new QB we have lost a few but they meant very little in the big picture .

Hyperbole is completely lost on you and I'm not surprised. Like I said, there is no rivalry right now. Fact: Texans have beaten the Colts more recently then the Colts have beaten the Patriots. You can put a banner on that if you want, but that is still a FACT. There is no rivalry between the Patriots and Colts right now, even your own fans have said so in light of recent years. Now stop with the useless dribble, I'm not here for trash talk. I came into this thread to point out how faulty the logic used by the OP was.

[csmopar]

No, that is why Brady is considered one of the biggest draft steals of all time.

But according to you, you can only find starting talent in the first round.....

[Colts_Fan12]

That is a terrible mindset to have IMO. You are telling me if Dorsett becomes a perennial 1200 yard 10 TD receiver you will still hate the pick. Wow someone really isn't happy.

no I'm just saying no matter how Dorsett turns out it will always be a dumb pick cause of how bad our D was and already having talent at the WR position

[amfootball]

But according to you, you can only find starting talent in the first round.....

That is not what I have been saying at all ...

[Jason_]

That is not what I have been saying at all ...

 

you sure about that?

[SDakColts]

no I'm just saying no matter how Dorsett turns out it will always be a dumb pick cause of how bad our D was and already having talent at the WR position

Alright well that sounds much better than your other post. Not a problem I was just wondering if I was understanding what you was really meaning to say so thanks for clarifying. By the way I was just curious as I know you are one of the most vocal about Dorsett not being your favorite pick. Who would you have taken at 29?

[Colts_Fan12]

Alright well that sounds much better than your other post. Not a problem I was just wondering if I was understanding what you was really meaning to say so thanks for clarifying. By the way I was just curious as I know you are one of the most vocal about Dorsett not being your favorite pick. Who would you have taken at 29?

Kendricks or Collins or even a OT I wanted Kendricks the most caues our ILBs are both old and not that good in coverage. Kendricks isn't afraid to tackle and stop the run and was good in pass coverage as well.

[SDakColts]

Kendricks or Collins or even a OT I wanted Kendricks the most caues our ILBs are both old and not that good in coverage. Kendricks isn't afraid to tackle and stop the run and was good in pass coverage as well.

Solid picks I could definitely understand why that is who you wanted to go with. Thanks for the response as I was just curious.

[Colts_Fan12]

Solid picks I could definitely understand why that is who you wanted to go with. Thanks for the response as I was just curious.

no problem! I have no problem talkin about it i know it's my opinion and no one has to like it. I don't expect people to I just really wanna improve the D and get some youth. All the Peyton years we had a average to crap deffense and I don't wanna do the same with Luck.

[csmopar]

I get that. I have only been discussing the first round because those are your most ready starters to make an impact on day one and hopefully for years to come.

Example 1.....

[Superman]

That has never been my point.

Really... You said this:

Irsay emphasized the run defense and yet with pick number one they take a WR. Number one picks are like gold. The most talent in the draft exists in round one to draft both BPA and need.

I'm having trouble reconciling all these comments to determine exactly what your point is.

But I'll ask this: If first round picks are like gold, how do you justify using a first rounder on a player you don't think is a first round talent? How do you justify passing up on a player that you think is the 19th (at worst) rated player in the draft, and instead taking players that you have second round grades on?

First rounders are critical, like you say. They should be players that you think will be a part of your team for 10+ years. Needs change every season; talent, not so much. If there's any round where talent trumps need, it's the first, because that's where the most talented players are available, and that's where there's the most discrepancy. Your 20th rated player is a lot better than your 40th rated player; the gap isn't that great between your 80th rated player and your 100th rated player.

[amfootball]

Really... You said this:

I'm having trouble reconciling all these comments to determine exactly what your point is.

But I'll ask this: If first round picks are like gold, how do you justify using a first rounder on a player you don't think is a first round talent? How do you justify passing up on a player that you think is the 19th (at worst) rated player in the draft, and instead taking players that you have second round grades on?

First rounders are critical, like you say. They should be players that you think will be a part of your team for 10+ years. Needs change every season; talent, not so much. If there's any round where talent trumps need, it's the first, because that's where the most talented players are available, and that's where there's the most discrepancy. Your 20th rated player is a lot better than your 40th rated player; the gap isn't that great between your 80th rated player and your 100th rated player.

If Grigson did not have any defensive players or offensive lineman ranked in the first round on his board when he was picking at 29 than he made the best pick he could. But one would have to strongly question his board. That has been my point. Good GMs draft both talent and need especially in round one. Even if a player is ranked lower at a strong position of need verses a player ranked higher at a position of strength, I would think the GM would go with the need vs BPA. I mean it is not like this receiver is build like Moss or Calvin Johnson to have him ranked so high that you forgo the areas of critical importance.

[Superman]

If Grigson did not have any defensive players or offensive lineman ranked in the first round on his board when he was picking at 29 than he made the best pick he could. But one would have to strongly question his board. That has been my point. Good GMs draft both talent and need especially in round one. Even if a player is ranked lower at a strong position of need verses a player ranked higher at a position of strength, I would think the GM would go with the need vs BPA. I mean it is not like this receiver is build like Moss or Calvin Johnson to have him ranked so high that you forgo the areas of critical importance.

 

The bolded is an entirely different discussion, one that cannot really be evaluated for at least a couple years. What's unquestionable is that Grigson and his staff had Dorsett rated higher than any of those defensive players or offensive linemen. It's also pretty clear that the Colts weren't the only team that had Dorsett rated highly. If you were to compare big boards and ratings from all 32 teams (I wish), I'm pretty sure Dorsett was a consensus top 30 player.

 

We're talking about the philosophy more than anything else. And my question is, if the Colts spent months and months scouting and interviewing and evaluating players in order to set up their board, and the results of that pre-draft process had Dorsett ranked in the teens (reportedly), and those other players we're all talking about with second round grades -- OL, DL, S, whatever -- why would the Colts take a player that they felt was a second round player when there's still a guy available that they think is a mid first rounder? Why spend all that time and energy and money, why tell your scouting department how important their jobs are, use their intel to set up your board, etc., and then deviate from that board when you're on the clock?

 

You don't. And it's even more obvious when you start talking about how important first round picks are. Even more so than the rest of the draft, you can get great prospects in the first round. That's why, philosophically, BPA is widely considered the best strategy in the first round. You don't take your 40th guy at #29 when your 20th guy is still there.

 

And again, the Colts didn't forgo areas of critical importance. They selected those players throughout the draft. Their scouting/board told them that players at those areas of critical importance didn't line up at #29, and their philosophy told them not to reach for a lesser player at an area of greater importance when there's still a player that's much higher on your board. I'd be upset if I saw the Colts board, and Brown/Goldman/Collins were in the mid to late 30s / early 40s, and they passed on their 19th rated player for one of those guys. To me, the only acceptable compromise is a trade down, and evidently that wasn't an option.

 

After a pick like this, there's no question about the Colts board or their early round draft philosophy. They had Dorsett ranked higher than any "critical need" player, and they believe in a "BPA trumps need" approach. Those two things explain this pick beyond all doubt.

[bababooey]

Why because she uses logic? AM is a good poster here, Patriot fan or not.

Considering every post is biased towards the pats and she reaches insanely far to talk about them in a discussion involving the Colts it is not that crazy to be sick of someone who does that all the time.

[bababooey]

You'd think considering Lord Thomas Brady, XLIX was such a late round pick that we wouldn't have to hear ridicule from a Pat's fan for 5 days following the first round of a draft we went heavy on defense in especially after a defensive heavy Free Agency period as well.

[csmopar]

no I'm just saying no matter how Dorsett turns out it will always be a dumb pick cause of how bad our D was and already having talent at the WR position

And if our D shapes up and we win the Rings this year, then what?......which is possible

[amfootball]

The bolded is an entirely different discussion, one that cannot really be evaluated for at least a couple years. What's unquestionable is that Grigson and his staff had Dorsett rated higher than any of those defensive players or offensive linemen. It's also pretty clear that the Colts weren't the only team that had Dorsett rated highly. If you were to compare big boards and ratings from all 32 teams (I wish), I'm pretty sure Dorsett was a consensus top 30 player.

 

We're talking about the philosophy more than anything else. And my question is, if the Colts spent months and months scouting and interviewing and evaluating players in order to set up their board, and the results of that pre-draft process had Dorsett ranked in the teens (reportedly), and those other players we're all talking about with second round grades -- OL, DL, S, whatever -- why would the Colts take a player that they felt was a second round player when there's still a guy available that they think is a mid first rounder? Why spend all that time and energy and money, why tell your scouting department how important their jobs are, use their intel to set up your board, etc., and then deviate from that board when you're on the clock?

 

You don't. And it's even more obvious when you start talking about how important first round picks are. Even more so than the rest of the draft, you can get great prospects in the first round. That's why, philosophically, BPA is widely considered the best strategy in the first round. You don't take your 40th guy at #29 when your 20th guy is still there.

 

And again, the Colts didn't forgo areas of critical importance. They selected those players throughout the draft. Their scouting/board told them that players at those areas of critical importance didn't line up at #29, and their philosophy told them not to reach for a lesser player at an area of greater importance when there's still a player that's much higher on your board. I'd be upset if I saw the Colts board, and Brown/Goldman/Collins were in the mid to late 30s / early 40s, and they passed on their 19th rated player for one of those guys. To me, the only acceptable compromise is a trade down, and evidently that wasn't an option.

 

After a pick like this, there's no question about the Colts board or their early round draft philosophy. They had Dorsett ranked higher than any "critical need" player, and they believe in a "BPA trumps need" approach. Those two things explain this pick beyond all doubt.

That is all well and good but then as you say that more so calls into question their approach then anything else. I agree about the scouting and if they feel Dorsett is the next Calvin Johnson type receiver than it was a good pick. But for a team that had its most glaring needs on the defensive side, the pick is head scratching given there were defensive players to be had. If they didn't feel those guys graded out above the 40's then that is how they saw things and we see how this draft pans out over the next couple of years.

 

I know many posters on this board felt this draft was a key proving ground for Grigson so needless to say he will be judged greatly by how Dorsett performs as well as the other defensive players that he passed on.

[Toe Toed Sloth]

So you feel BPA justifies that pick? What if Winston was there, would you have taken a QB? Picking a WR at that spot was the most head scratching pick of the draft. That being said, the rest of your draft seemed pretty good although not sure you have anyone on that Dline that is impactful.

 

Honestly I can't take you seriously. You are clearly a Patriot's troll on a COLTS forum and you have over 13,000 posts. Why do people feel the need to troll? Why don't you find some nice Pats fans to go hang out with instead of criticizing our draft?

[Carlos Danger]

I think that would be intriguing, but hopefully we pick at least from the 31 spot next year ;)

BWAAAAH HAHAHA ! ROFL...

Don't do that! You made me spit my ovaltine out all over the kitchen. My multivitamin was in there!

[Qwiz]

BWAAAAH HAHAHA ! ROFL...

Don't do that! You made me spit my ovaltine out all over the kitchen. My multivitamin was in there!

Ha...ha? Glad to make you laugh man

[Colts_Fan12]

Honestly I can't take you seriously. You are clearly a Patriot's troll on a COLTS forum and you have over 13,000 posts. Why do people feel the need to troll? Why don't you find some nice Pats fans to go hang out with instead of criticizing our draft?

I hardly never agree with AM or any pats poster but she is right that pick was dumb. Grigs earned and deserves all the criticism from everyone he has got.

[BlueCollarColts]

I hardly never agree with AM or any pats poster but she is right that pick was dumb. Grigs earned and deserves all the criticism from everyone he has got.

It's a bad pick before the guys even played? Man why can't I see the future like some of you

[Carlos Danger]

Ha...ha? Glad to make you laugh man

Just having some fun.

No offense, but the Texans really have no offense... , but seriously, they are an extremely long shot to make the SB... I peg Houston for another 9-7 season and think that will be the ceiling until there is a decent QB down there. JMO, though.

[Qwiz]

Just having some fun.

No offense, but the Texans really have no offense... , but seriously, they are an extremely long shot to make the SB... I peg Houston for another 9-7 season and think that will be the ceiling until there is a decent QB down there. JMO, though.

That's a misconception. Mallett is no sure thing but if he can be even a little bit decent, then the Texans offense will click, and the defense we already know is going to be impressive...I was of course joking about the Super Bowl but I can see us improving our record from last year and even making the playoffs. Hoping the injury bug doesn't show its ugly face.

[Carlos Danger]

That's a misconception. Mallett is no sure thing but if he can be even a little bit decent, then the Texans offense will click, and the defense we already know is going to be impressive...I was of course joking about the Super Bowl but I can see us improving our record from last year and even making the playoffs. Hoping the injury bug doesn't show its ugly face.

It's definitely possible that they make a jump with Clowney, Wilfork, and a good draft.

That defense is scary, for sure.

The year that Peyton got his ring we played the Bears in the SB. They got there riding their Defense and Special Teams... and I do think that Mallet is quite a bit better under center than Rex Grossman...

[Colts_Fan12]

It's a bad pick before the guys even played? Man why can't I see the future like some of you

no one has ever said he's a bad player he was still a luxury pick with more pressing needs

[BlueCollarColts]

no one has ever said he's a bad player he was still a luxury pick with more pressing needs

and there is absolutely no reason to reach for those needs if you feel you can get high caliber players to fit those needs later in the draft. 

[Colts_Fan12]

and there is absolutely no reason to reach for those needs if you feel you can get high caliber players to fit those needs later in the draft.

taking one if the many great D players available wouldn't have been a reach

[BlueCollarColts]

taking one if the many great D players available wouldn't have been a reach

According to your draft board or Grigson's?

[Colts_Fan12]

According to your draft board or Grigson's?

yeah cause Grigson has been perfect at grading talent whatever

[BlueCollarColts]

yeah cause Grigson has been perfect at grading talent whatever

That's not the point, the point is your argument comes down to you thinking your have a better idea of how good these players are compared to Grigson... You probably haven't even spent 1/20th of the time Grigson has watching film on these guys

[Colts_Fan12]

That's not the point, the point is your argument comes down to you thinking your have a better idea of how good these players are compared to Grigson... You probably haven't even spent 1/20th of the time Grigson has watching film on these guys

no people get * when everyone isn't praising Grigson for everything he does. I don't like the pick as do many other people its our opinion just like yours is to love him and see no wrong in it

[jabbanobadda]

The Colts at one point drafted four straight defensive players. Two linemen, a safety, and a cover corner. The preoccupation with the first round is amazing. I totally understand how valuable first rounders are, and that's the very reason you don't take lesser players out of a desire to address need.

Yeah but they weren't in the first round so they don't count. I'm late to the party in this thread...is this still AM's stance or has it changed? I can't keep up with her ever changing rants...

[braveheartcolt]

no people get * when everyone isn't praising Grigson for everything he does. I don't like the pick as do many other people its our opinion just like yours is to love him and see no wrong in it

It's not really about Dorsett or Brown or amy rookie for you, is it. You just don't like Grigson. Which is definitely your prerogative.

[Colts_Fan12]

It's not really about Dorsett or Brown or amy rookie for you, is it. You just don't like Grigson. Which is definitely your prerogative.

Nope not anymore. Used to but too many stupid picks and dumb signings.

[braveheartcolt]

Nope not anymore. Used to but too many stupid picks and dumb signings.

Fair enough. Out of interest, what is his 'hit rate' on his signings(good or better) versus (bad or worse)? And how does that measure against his peers? Not trying to trap you, but we all know FA and the draft can be very hit or miss, so trying to get a feeling if you are onto something, if you have unfair expectations, or if you are just don't like the guy for some other reasons?

[Colts_Fan12]

Fair enough. Out of interest, what is his 'hit rate' on his signings(good or better) versus (bad or worse)? And how does that measure against his peers? Not trying to trap you, but we all know FA and the draft can be very hit or miss, so trying to get a feeling if you are onto something, if you have unfair expectations, or if you are just don't like the guy for some other reasons?

That I don't know you will have to ask one of our forum experts who are great with all the numbers and stuff. I just think besides his first draft he has been very poor when it comes to the draft. His draft was alright this year after we get past the 1st pick. Hopefully it will finally help our D before we are stuck like we were in the Manning years.

[BlueCollarColts]

no people get * when everyone isn't praising Grigson for everything he does. I don't like the pick as do many other people its our opinion just like yours is to love him and see no wrong in it

Yes I know you dislike the pick..... I am allowed to challenge you on it though, thats kinda the point of this forum, to discuss things like this...

[Colts_Fan12]

Yes I know you dislike the pick..... I am allowed to challenge you on it though, thats kinda the point of this forum, to discuss things like this...

hey if you wan try and change my opinion on the pick be my guest but nothing is gonna justify it IMO