T.Y. must really be in the Texans' head.

[amfootball]

You said: The part you keep missing is the Pats took a player to fill one of their biggest needs

 

So that's of primary importance in the first round, but not the second round. There are ten players in the next 30 picks after JG that would have benefited the Pats more than JG, and those players will do more for their teams than JG will ever do for the Pats. They could have drafted a young, developmental QB later in the draft. They could have signed a young QB.

 

This whole 'need trumps all' approach to analyzing a draft is, well, wrong. Everyone does it, and it's still wrong. It's as wrong in the first round as it is in the second and beyond. And there's no way to reconcile calling the JG pick "forward thinking" while at the same time banging the table for 'need trumps all.' It's two-faced, at best, and entirely devoid of real analysis. That's not what the draft is for, and it's not how good teams draft.

 

As for Grigson's job, I'm not worried about that at all. And I get the feeling that no one is worried about Malcom Brown. But good luck with that...

lol. I never said need trumps all. Go back and read my posts. I have been saying there is a balance to BPA and need and good GMs know when to go with BPA over need.

 

If you want to dissect the JImmy pick go ahead, but the Pats were in position to take him where they did because their team for the last four years has been in contention for a SB and won it last year. And QB was a pressing need given Brady's age and no other developmental Q on the roster. As I have said previously, the draft is only one part of the team building process but first round picks are like gold. You can't mess those ups and expect to keep your job as a GM. Not three in a row that is for sure. And what is even tougher for Grison with this one is the player that many expected them to take in Brown went to his chief rival who were in desperate need of Dlinemen, Needless to say, these two players will be inextricable linked and right or wrong much of Grigson's tenure, however long it lasts, will be predicated on those two guys.

[amfootball]

Uhh boy....

This is what your own guy thinks of your whole draft, http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2015/05/02/doyel-know-grigson-pagano/26795809/

 

Please weigh in as he is scratching his head over all the picks.

[Superman]

lol. I never said need trumps all. Go back and read my posts. I have been saying there is a balance to BPA and need and good GMs know when to go with BPA over need.

 

If you want to dissect the JImmy pick go ahead, but the Pats were in position to take him where they did because their team for the last four years has been in contention for a SB and won it last year. And QB was a pressing need given Brady's age and no other developmental Q on the roster. As I have said previously, the draft is only one part of the team building process but first round picks are like gold. You can't mess those ups and expect to keep your job as a GM. Not three in a row that is for sure. And what is even tougher for Grison with this one is the player that many expected them to take in Brown went to his chief rival who were in desperate need of Dlinemen, Needless to say, these two players will be inextricable linked and right or wrong much of Grigson's tenure, however long it lasts, will be predicated on those two guys.

 

To the bolded, no it won't. But I'm glad you're so interested in how Grigson will be evaluated.

 

To the first line, that's pretty much what you said: 

I think smart GMs understand when there is a value pick or BPA to be made during a draft but overall the draft is there for teams to fill needs. That is job number one. There is no need to draft at positions of strength based solely on BPA if you have glaring needs elsewhere and players available to fill those needs.

 

I have no desire to dissect the JG pick. I don't have a problem with it, even though I think it would have been better to take a developmental QB later in the draft, but whatever. Belichick can do what he wants. But it makes no sense to say what you've said about drafting for need in the first round, and then turn around and call the JG pick "forward thinking." The Colts took a player that will actually play for them, while the Pats took a player that probably won't, especially within the next few seasons. As I said, if we're talking about need, there is absolutely zero question that Dorsett is more of a need that JG is, even if he wasn't a primary need.

 

The draft doesn't change that much from #29 to #62. If you can defend JG -- and even praise it -- then you ought to be able to wrap your mind around Dorsett without all this nonsense about how 'good GMs add talent at positions of need.'

[amfootball]

As I said, if we're talking about need, there is absolutely zero question that Dorsett is more of a need that JG is, even if he wasn't a primary need.

 

 

What? How is Dorsett more of a need than back up QB on a team that had no back up QBs given Mallett was set to be a FA? And a starter who is 37.

[Qwiz]

Whats the Colts all time record against the Texans again?  Do the Texans have that all pro QB yet?  I didn't think so.  I think the Colts have been in the Texans head for a while now lol.

What's the Colts record against the Patriots the past few years? Do they have an all-pro QB yet? Oh wait.

[Qwiz]

What? How is Dorsett more of a need than back up QB on a team that had no back up QBs given Mallett was set to be a FA? And a starter who is 37.

I don't get the logic being used here either. Colts had plenty of receivers, and if they didn't go D-line they could have even went safety or maybe even offensive line. I agree with you that the Draft, most importantly the first round, is meant to fill needs. Why else have a draft in the first place, right? Just to overstock your team at positions you don't need to? I don't think so.

[dw49]

lol. You guys are too much. Brady was 37 last year so taking a QB in the second round given they had no other young QBs in development makes perfect sense as they have ear marked him as Brady's replacement. As much as Brady appears to be immortal coming off his fourth title, his window is closing fast.

 

I will say this though, this could be the proverbial straw for Grison losing his job given he has already wasted two first round picks. Especially if Malcolm Brown goes on to wreak havoc in the Colts backfield not allowing Luck to find his shiny targets ...

 

 

LOL ..my aching butt.

 

You guys in 2014 had a pressing need for a WR and took a QB that most likely wouldn't play at LEAST until the last year of his contract. Brady could easily play another 3 years making it questionable that this guy even starts a game for you. So in a rich WR draft , NE passes and takes the QB and that's smart. The Colts on the other hand are stupid for taking A WR who they had rated at least a half round higher than the best defensive player of "need" and it's stupid because "as we speak" WR is not a position of need. Things change quickly in the NFL and positions of strength and weakness often change in as short of time as it takes to twist a knee or fracture a bne. 

[amfootball]

LOL ..my aching butt.

 

You guys in 2014 had a pressing need for a WR and took a QB that most likely wouldn't play at LEAST until the last year of his contract. Brady could easily play another 3 years making it questionable that this guy even starts a game for you. So in a rich WR draft , NE passes and takes the QB and that's smart. The Colts on the other hand are stupid for taking A WR who they had rated at least a half round higher than the best defensive player of "need" and it's stupid because "as we speak" WR is not a position of need. Things change quickly in the NFL and positions of strength and weakness often change in as short of time as it takes to twist a knee or fracture a bne. 

Those are big IFs you have there. I mean aren't you always the one saying that the wheels can come off of older QBs at any time and then the descent is usually rapid? Brady could have 3 years or look like Manning did mid-way through the season last year. And Jimmy is a second round pick therefore needs time to develop so it is reasonable to take him and let him sit and learn from Brady and then be ready to take the reigns. I mean you have to have a QB in the wings, right? The Pats had no one as Mallett was a FA.

[Qwiz]

Nobody could predict how well a 37 year old QB could play. For all we know Brady could've got hit the wrong way and ended up being severely hurt again or requiring surgery like Manning. New England taking Jimmy was a good move no matter how you slice it.

[Jason_]

Why because she uses logic? AM is a good poster here, Patriot fan or not.

 

For the record, I don't agree that the Texans are making personnel decisions based on TY Hilton being in their head (though I think the original post was tongue in cheek anyway).  That said, I still disagree with this post. ;)

[Superman]

What's the Colts record against the Patriots the past few years? Do they have an all-pro QB yet? Oh wait.

 

Must be nice to play both sides of the fence. You can't defend the Texans, so you jock the Pats? That's awesome.

[Qwiz]

For the record, I don't agree that the Texans are making personnel decisions based on TY Hilton being in their head (though I think the original post was tongue in cheek anyway).  That said, I still disagree with this post. ;)

Sure. Not everyone gets along with everyone here. I think the original post was silly in the first place myself

[dw49]

Must be nice to play both sides of the fence. You can't defend the Texans, so you jock the Pats? That's awesome.

 

 

I don't even read his posts anymore as they just end up with me getting tagged with warning points

[Qwiz]

Must be nice to play both sides of the fence. You can't defend the Texans, so you jock the Pats? That's awesome.

Oh, I can defend the Texans. I just enjoy calling out the stupid logic a lot of posters use here, especially when it's meant to be a slight against my team. I know I'm awesome, thanks.

[Superman]

What? How is Dorsett more of a need than back up QB on a team that had no back up QBs given Mallett was set to be a FA? And a starter who is 37.

 

Because Dorsett will play, and JG will not. Mallett was under contract, so they did in fact have a backup QB. Stop it. They didn't even trade him until the end of training camp.

 

And they took a backup QB that probably will never play in the second round. You say the Colts didn't need a WR in the first round, but at the same time, claim the Pats needed a QB in the second round? Are you serious?

[Superman]

Oh, I can defend the Texans. I just enjoy calling out the stupid logic a lot of posters use here, especially when it's meant to be a slight against my team.

 

Well, what's really your team? The Texans until it's not convenient?

[Qwiz]

Well, what's really your team? The Texans until it's not convenient?

I have no idea what you're getting at here. I've already expressed my faith in my team, and a lot of us think we can win the South this year, including me. Me applauding the Patriots or pointing out faulty logic used by other posters has nothing to do with my fandom of either team.

[amfootball]

Because Dorsett will play, and JG will not. Mallett was under contract, so they did in fact have a backup QB. Stop it. They didn't even trade him until the end of training camp.

 

And they took a backup QB that probably will never play in the second round. You say the Colts didn't need a WR in the first round, but at the same time, claim the Pats needed a QB in the second round? Are you serious?

You have completely lost me. Back-ups of course don't play but you have to have one and you need to have one that you believe can lead the team. It was obvious the Pats did not feel that way about Mallett given they did select Jimmy and traded Mallett away. And again, they WON the Super Bowl. What need was exactly pressing? The Colts on the other hand got shelled in the title game and needed defense. I mean WR was addressed in FA, right?

[dw49]

This is what your own guy thinks of your whole draft, http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2015/05/02/doyel-know-grigson-pagano/26795809/

 

Please weigh in as he is scratching his head over all the picks.

 

 

I have no idea of who that goof ball is. I've never read his stuff in the past and that article is just plain ignorant and inflammatory . I can start posting draft grades after draft grades that give the Colts a solid B for the draft. More than half of the ones I read have the Colts draft rated ahead of the Texan draft... BTW. Some like the Dorsett pick , others don't. 

 

Anyway because some slug named Doyle hates every pick in our draft , that's suppose to prove your point ? Do you want e to find your post saying you liked the rest of the Colt draft ? Will do if you really don't think you said that. Point there would be this * said the whole draft was a train wreck .. so you want to just quote him on what you like ?

[Superman]

You have completely lost me. Back-ups of course don't play but you have to have one and you need to have one that you believe can lead the team. It was obvious the Pats did not feel that way about Mallett given they did select Jimmy and traded Mallett away. And again, they WON the Super Bowl. What need was exactly pressing? The Colts on the other hand got shelled in the title game and needed defense. I mean WR was addressed in FA, right?

So JG was a good pick because the Pats won the Super Bowl? Wowser. By that logic, we shouldn't even talk about Dorsett until February, and if the Colts win the Super Bowl, then it was a genius pick whether he plays or not. Right?

I haven't lost you, you just don't want to be straight up. You can't criticize the Dorsett pick and at the same time call the JG pick forward thinking. The Pats didn't NEED a backup QB, they had one already. And they certainly didn't need one in the second round. Yet they took JG, and more power to them, but he didn't help them in the slightest.

And please don't act like that Pats team had zero flaws. You started a late round center the last part of the season. How many interior OL did the Pats pass up to draft JG?

[dw49]

You have completely lost me. Back-ups of course don't play but you have to have one and you need to have one that you believe can lead the team. It was obvious the Pats did not feel that way about Mallett given they did select Jimmy and traded Mallett away. And again, they WON the Super Bowl. What need was exactly pressing? The Colts on the other hand got shelled in the title game and needed defense. I mean WR was addressed in FA, right?

 

 

LOL LOL LOL 

 

OK we're going by the title game. My aching rump. 

 

Here we go  

 

Points scored by Colts     7 

TDs scored by WR's         0

Total receptions by WR's  2

Total yards receiving by WR's 51

 

Now I'm not saying WR was a position most needed by it was certainly a position NE had no problem shutting down last year. And you are the one using the TITLE GAME as a reference to prove your point

[Superman]

I have no idea what you're getting at here. I've already expressed my faith in my team, and a lot of us think we can win the South this year, including me. Me applauding the Patriots or pointing out faulty logic used by other posters has nothing to do with my fandom of either team.

 

Just never mind, Qwiz. Your grass is always green.

[Qwiz]

Just never mind, Qwiz. Your grass is always green.

No, the Colts grass is always green. Even when picking a position that wasn't of need in the first round. But I can get that. Fans are supposed to support their team.

[dw49]

Wow , I've wasted an hour and a half on this nonsense.

[Superman]

No, the Colts grass is always green. Even when picking a position that wasn't of need in the first round. But I can get that. Fans are supposed to support their team.

 

Oh stop it. I've said many times that I wish we had done something else. My contention is with the idea that picking Dorsett was a waste, because it was not. Only viewed through the lens of "need before talent" is Dorsett considered a bad pick, and that's the way almost everyone grades the draft. I just disagree with it, fundamentally.

[Qwiz]

Oh stop it. I've said many times that I wish we had done something else. My contention is with the idea that picking Dorsett was a waste, because it was not. Only viewed through the lens of "need before talent" is Dorsett considered a bad pick, and that's the way almost everyone grades the draft. I just disagree with it, fundamentally.

Ahh. Then we just had a bit of a misunderstanding on the matter. Just a fundamental disagreement is all. That clears things up.

[Jhaze55]

Y'all say they didn't fill a need in the first round, and you're correct. But did you even try and look at the rest of the Colts draft?

 

CB, DE, S, NT, RB, LB, OL.. Look at all that defense!

 

Just because the first round pick didn't "fill a need" doesn't mean that the rest of the draft doesn't.

[GoPats]

What's the Colts record against the Patriots the past few years? Do they have an all-pro QB yet? Oh wait.

 

Do the Texans refuse to say the name "Colts" in their locker room?   

[SteelCityColt]

Y'all say they didn't fill a need in the first round, and you're correct. But did you even try and look at the rest of the Colts draft?

 

CB, DE, S, NT, RB, LB, OL.. Look at all that defense!

 

Just because the first round pick didn't "fill a need" doesn't mean that the rest of the draft doesn't.

Picks after the first round don't count

[Qwiz]

Do the Texans refuse to say the name "Colts" in their locker room?

Why do you think Swearinger is being shopped? The poor soul uttered the name right in front of SWatt...

[Jhaze55]

Picks after the first round don't count

I guess not!

[Superman]

Y'all say they didn't fill a need in the first round, and you're correct. But did you even try and look at the rest of the Colts draft?

 

CB, DE, S, NT, RB, LB, OL.. Look at all that defense!

 

Just because the first round pick didn't "fill a need" doesn't mean that the rest of the draft doesn't.

 

No, people judge a draft primarily based on the first round. 

[BlueCollarColts]

Nobody could predict how well a 37 year old QB could play. For all we know Brady could've got hit the wrong way and ended up being severely hurt again or requiring surgery like Manning. New England taking Jimmy was a good move no matter how you slice it.

Yet that doesn't apply to a 34 year old Andre Johnson?

[amfootball]

I have no idea of who that goof ball is. I've never read his stuff in the past and that article is just plain ignorant and inflammatory . I can start posting draft grades after draft grades that give the Colts a solid B for the draft. More than half of the ones I read have the Colts draft rated ahead of the Texan draft... BTW. Some like the Dorsett pick , others don't. 

 

Anyway because some slug named Doyle hates every pick in our draft , that's suppose to prove your point ? Do you want e to find your post saying you liked the rest of the Colt draft ? Will do if you really don't think you said that. Point there would be this * said the whole draft was a train wreck .. so you want to just quote him on what you like ?

I just wanted your take given he is a reporter from your paper. I think it is too early to judge a draft personally have to wait a good 2-3 years but this guy seems to think you missed a lot. Was just curious to your take ...

[amfootball]

So JG was a good pick because the Pats won the Super Bowl? Wowser. By that logic, we shouldn't even talk about Dorsett until February, and if the Colts win the Super Bowl, then it was a genius pick whether he plays or not. Right?

I haven't lost you, you just don't want to be straight up. You can't criticize the Dorsett pick and at the same time call the JG pick forward thinking. The Pats didn't NEED a backup QB, they had one already. And they certainly didn't need one in the second round. Yet they took JG, and more power to them, but he didn't help them in the slightest.

And please don't act like that Pats team had zero flaws. You started a late round center the last part of the season. How many interior OL did the Pats pass up to draft JG?

lol. You are reaching big time with this one. The Pats generally only carry 2 QBs, has been this way since 2007 so having a quality back up is paramount. It was known prior to the 2014 draft that the Pats were not big on Mallett being their guy and were looking to trade him. In the Colts situation, your receiving corp is the strength of the team AND you added AJ in FA so to pick a receiver in the first round makes zero sense. Sure, he could be a good player but given the state of your defense, it would have made more sense to go with line or safety there.

 

And as I have said all along, we will see how it pans out but this move by Grigson could be one that costs him his job if the defense still looks the same in 2015 and Brown blossoms. The irony is unbelievable on this one in terms of how the Pats/Colts are linked. I look forward to see how both players progress especially when the two teams face each other ...

[amfootball]

LOL LOL LOL 

 

OK we're going by the title game. My aching rump. 

 

Here we go  

 

Points scored by Colts     7 

TDs scored by WR's         0

Total receptions by WR's  2

Total yards receiving by WR's 51

 

Now I'm not saying WR was a position most needed by it was certainly a position NE had no problem shutting down last year. And you are the one using the TITLE GAME as a reference to prove your point

The Pats also had the best secondary in the league last year. I mean really. It is like Grigson did not even notice that we don't have Revis and Browner anymore. Just that fact alone means Luck should be able to complete more passes although the Pats front 7 is looking scary good right now. It is clear that Bill is putting his money on that unit carrying the day vs his secondary.

[BullsColtsFan1]

What's the Colts record against the Patriots the past few years? Do they have an all-pro QB yet? Oh wait.

Is this thread about the Patriots or Texans? Oh wait the Texans.  I forgot your "2nd favorite team is the Patriots" because the Texans can't ever beat the Colts. 

[jvan1973]

The Pats also had the best secondary in the league last year. I mean really. It is like Grigson did not even notice that we don't have Revis and Browner anymore. Just that fact alone means Luck should be able to complete more passes although the Pats front 7 is looking scary good right now. It is clear that Bill is putting his money on that unit carrying the day vs his secondary.

The colts don't play the patriots every week. As for the dorsett pick. The colts have Johnson, who will be here two or three seasons and Hilton going into his last season on his contract. Those are the only two proven wrs on the team. Why people keep saying we were so stacked at wr is beyond me. The colts had him rated much higher than anyone left. Its not that hard to figure out why they picked him

[amfootball]

I have no idea of who that goof ball is. I've never read his stuff in the past and that article is just plain ignorant and inflammatory . I can start posting draft grades after draft grades that give the Colts a solid B for the draft. More than half of the ones I read have the Colts draft rated ahead of the Texan draft... BTW. Some like the Dorsett pick , others don't. 

 

Anyway because some slug named Doyle hates every pick in our draft , that's suppose to prove your point ? Do you want e to find your post saying you liked the rest of the Colt draft ? Will do if you really don't think you said that. Point there would be this * said the whole draft was a train wreck .. so you want to just quote him on what you like ?

BTW, it looks like all the draft guys almost across the aboard had the Colts draft at a C grade, http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2015/05/02/links-how-experts-analysts-are-grading-indianapolis-colts-draft-picks-day-3-nfl-draft/26797365/

[jskinnz]

Out of all the mocks posted here, I don't remember a single poster mocking a receiver in the first. He's a good player but yeah, I'm with you and AM on it being a questionable pick.

 

Well the fact that you are with those two does not mean you are keeping good company.