Speculation Thread: What do you think happened at Deflategate? (Merge)

[Bad Morty]

Lol...guess I'm not surprised. 90 seconds to fish 12 footballs out of a bag, deflate them all to the same amount, re-bag them and head to the field. Folks - we've reached the "Big-Foot is real" stage of this phony conspiracy.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Empirical evidence isn't needed here. This isn't a court of law. Your employer wouldn't need half as much circumstantial to throw your butt out forever. Not even a fraction of this much circumstantial evidence. .....

 

True for potential punitive purposes for the organization.  For individual punishment, it is much harder to assign.  That is what Kraft has drawn the line in the sand about...

[da_pats_troll]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/26/video-shows-employee-taking-24-balls-into-bathroom/

 

 

 

Third, from the same source, the evidence comes from a surveillance video that was discovered by the Patriots and given to the NFL early in the investigation.

 

Now, thats an interesting twist...

[Flying Elvis]

Lol...guess I'm not surprised. 90 seconds to fish 12 footballs out of a bag, deflate them all to the same amount, re-bag them and head to the field. Folks - we've reached the "Big-Foot is real" stage of this phony conspiracy.

It's a good thing he didn't have to go poop!

[Blue Horseshoe]

Excuses! Excuses! Excuses! The bottom line is that there is a league standard for football inflation and the Patriots failed to meet that standard.  It was their responsibility to meet the standard and they didn't.  All of these excuses for their failure to follow the rules are completely irrelevant.  We can argue their intention all week long and it will not matter a whit because the rulebook does not say anything about intention when specifying the inflation of footballs nor does it say anything about environmental effects on that inflation.  It specifies an allowable range of pressures and that is all it says.  The Patriot footballs were not in compliance with that standard.

 

All of these excuses for the failure to be in compliance with the rulebook are no different than an offensive lineman who says "But ref! A bee stung me on the calf and that is why I moved."  It doesn't matter.  It is his responsibility to not move just as it was the Patriots responsibility to provide properly prepared footballs for the game.  If measuring them in a climate controlled room would result in them being out of compliance during the game it is their responsibility to point that fact out as part of their responsibility to provide proper footballs.  They did not do so.

[Gramz]

He apparently didn't have time to "do his business" in the two hours before picking up the footballs.

[ruksak]

True for potential punitive purposes for the organization.  For individual punishment, it is much harder to assign.  That is what Kraft has drawn the line in the sand about...

Kraft is out of the loop on this, and he just made the mistake of sticking his neck out for a couple of liars. My greatest concern would be that the Patriots aren't allowed to profit from their cheating, but they already have, it's too late. 

 

If the NFL or the Colts had suspicions about the Pats tampering with footballs prior to this game, we're dealing with a HUGE coincidence. I hate it when people say "I don't believe in coincidences". Of course there are coincidences, they happen all the time. But many during the same instance? Now we're talking unbelievable. 

 

Coincidences;

1) The Pats were suspected of this prior to the game, and whaddaya know? Their balls are underinflated. What a coincidence.

2) Brady has spoken publicly about his preference of soft (underinflated) footballs, and whaddaya know? The first time anyone checks, his footballs are underinflated. What a coincidence. 

3) The Patriots have [by far] less fumbles than the average team for about a decade now. And whaddaya know? A deflated football is harder to lose your grip on and fumbe. What a coincidence. 

4) (( This one is my personal fav and the backbreaker)) The NFL investigates the chain of custody regarding the game balls, and whaddaya know? The balls enter a private room with no surveillance for a minute and a half with no witnesses around. What a coincidence. 

 

As I said, I believe in a coincidence. I do NOT believe in a bunch of coincidences. These become circumstantial evidence that tells a story, when seen in such great numbers. I'll use an example. If I thought my brother was using Heroin, I had heard from people talking that he was using. 

 

I go to his house and while walking through it, I notice a few hypodermic needles, a burnt spoon, and a few empty bags with residual white powder in them. Now each one of these things could be harmlessly explained off as coincidence, individually. Maybe he had a house guest that is diabetic and the guy left needles laying around. Maybe he was conducting a science experiment in his garage and he burnt a spoon while doing so. Maybe the empty bags were from borrowing sugar from a neighbor. 

 

Put them all together.....now way. Can't prove it, I didn't actually see him doing so, but with all this evidence, I don't need to. 

 

And Kraft wants an apology? Gimme a break.....

[ruksak]

He apparently didn't have time to "do his business" in the two hours before picking up the footballs.

Just a coincidence, Gramz. 

[Cynjin]

Lol...guess I'm not surprised. 90 seconds to fish 12 footballs out of a bag, deflate them all to the same amount, re-bag them and head to the field. Folks - we've reached the "Big-Foot is real" stage of this phony conspiracy.

Only in the minds of blinded Patriots fans.

[ruksak]

Lol...guess I'm not surprised. 90 seconds to fish 12 footballs out of a bag, deflate them all to the same amount, re-bag them and head to the field. Folks - we've reached the "Big-Foot is real" stage of this phony conspiracy.

Have you considered that more than one person was in there? 

 

My personal opinion is that this deflation has more to do with Belichick wanting to limit fumbles, and the fact that his QB prefers throwing a softer football made this tactic viable. I believe that this goes straight up to Belichick, a collusion to set game balls well below the standard rule set. It would be very easy to have 2-3 people ready to quickly adjust the pressure of these balls to their desired setting. 

[da_pats_troll]

Excuses! Excuses! Excuses! The bottom line is that there is a league standard for football inflation and the Patriots failed to meet that standard.  It was their responsibility to meet the standard and they didn't.  All of these excuses for their failure to follow the rules are completely irrelevant.  We can argue their intention all week long and it will not matter a whit because the rulebook does not say anything about intention when specifying the inflation of footballs nor does it say anything about environmental effects on that inflation.  It specifies an allowable range of pressures and that is all it says.  The Patriot footballs were not in compliance with that standard.

 

All of these excuses for the failure to be in compliance with the rulebook are no different than an offensive lineman who says "But ref! A bee stung me on the calf and that is why I moved."  It doesn't matter.  It is his responsibility to not move just as it was the Patriots responsibility to provide properly prepared footballs for the game.  If measuring them in a climate controlled room would result in them being out of compliance during the game it is their responsibility to point that fact out as part of their responsibility to provide proper footballs.  They did not do so.

 

Actually, your analysis is completely wrong.

 

The rule being discussed here is not tampering with the balls after they have been approved by the league. Its on the refs to ensure the balls are at the proper inflation before certifying them. The teams have no responsibility in the initial pressure. They could submit totally flat balls, and its still legal.

[ruksak]

Actually, your analysis is completely wrong.

 

The rule being discussed here is not tampering with the balls after they have been approved by the league. Its on the refs to ensure the balls are at the proper inflation before certifying them. The teams have no responsibility in the initial pressure. They could submit totally flat balls, and its still legal.

BH's point was to say that if the Pats are doing something within the process of inflating the balls before inspection that would knowingly allow the pressure to drop, than this would be an example of their failings in regard to adhering to the rules. 

 

No matter. This isn't what happened. The balls were leaked out after the official check. .....and whaddaya know........the chain of custody shows the balls disappearing into a private room. How neat. 

[Dustin]

Roughly 90 seconds can be anywhere from 75 to 105. 

[Gramz]

Just a coincidence, Gramz. 

[ruksak]

I have a feeling we'll see a ball boy/equipment manager driving a very nice car here soon. Hush money, it's the best kind of money because you can always ask for more. 

[da_pats_troll]

BH's point was to say that if the Pats are doing something within the process of inflating the balls before inspection that would knowingly allow the pressure to drop, than this would be an example of their failings in regard to adhering to the rules. 

 

No matter. This isn't what happened. The balls were leaked out after the official check. .....and whaddaya know........the chain of custody shows the balls disappearing into a private room. How neat. 

 

Tell me something. How incompetent would an organization have to be to find the evidence that would convict them, then deliberately give that to the NFL knowing what it had on it, then issue a series of denials to the public.

 

you can think they are liars and cheaters, I have no issue with that..but do you think they are ~that~ incompetent?

[ruksak]

Tell me something. How incompetent would an organization have to be to find the evidence that would convict them, then deliberately give that to the NFL knowing what it had on it, then issue a series of denials to the public.

 

you can think they are liars and cheaters, I have no issue with that..but do you think they are ~that~ incompetent?

You think they didn't watch the video before handing it over? The video shows nothing definitive, only a yet another coincidence. Boy what a coincidence, wouldn't ya know, the chain of custody has a break in it, one that cannot be explained. 

 

"Man I gotta pee, I guess I'll take these footballs into an unsanitary bathroom and take a leak real quick." 

 

Nevermind how gross this is, it seems EXTREMELY damning. 

 

It's pretty strange that the Colts suspected them of tampering, and wouldn't ya know, the first time anyone ever checks, the balls aren't right. What a coincidence. If the video showed no break in the chain of custody, if it showed the balls being taken directly from the official to the field as they're supposed to, than you have a point. The video apparently shows what we would expect if the Pats tampered. A break in the chain, and sure enough, there it is. 

[Bad Morty]

Excuses! Excuses! Excuses! The bottom line is that there is a league standard for football inflation and the Patriots failed to meet that standard.

 

The league's statement refutes this. They themselves say that the balls the Patriots provided for pre-fame inspection met the standard. Then they tested them again at half time and they were under the standard. That's all anybody seems to know. That in itself is not a violation of the rules, and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that the balls were tampered with. So..now what?

[jvan1973]

The league's statement refutes this. They themselves say that the balls the Patriots provided for pre-fame inspection met the standard. Then they tested them again at half time and they were under the standard. That's all anybody seems to know. That in itself is not a violation of the rules, and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that the balls were tampered with. So..now what?

you can bet every "weather" type scenario is being tested. The ball manufacturer has said that the explanation bill gave is bunk. He will have to be able to explain it if it can't be recreated

[ruksak]

The league's statement refutes this. They themselves say that the balls the Patriots provided for pre-fame inspection met the standard. Then they tested them again at half time and they were under the standard. That's all anybody seems to know. That in itself is not a violation of the rules, and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that the balls were tampered with. So..now what?

What I'm seeing in your post is that this is why the Pats were doing this [tampering]. Because they knew it would be impossible to prove. BB is smart, a liar and a cheat, but a smart lying cheater. 

[Hoosier]

Tell me something. How incompetent would an organization have to be to find the evidence that would convict them, then deliberately give that to the NFL knowing what it had on it, then issue a series of denials to the public.

 

you can think they are liars and cheaters, I have no issue with that..but do you think they are ~that~ incompetent?

 

The investigators were going to get that footage, period.

The only choice for the Patriots was to turn it over immediately and appear cooperative...or destroy it and really screw themselves.

[da_pats_troll]

The investigators were going to get that footage, period.

The only choice for the Patriots was to turn it over immediately and appear cooperative...or destroy it and really screw themselves.

 

Thats accurate for sure. But why then do the strong denial pressers. If the pats thought the vid had even a chance to incriminate them, why not just keep saying, we are co operating and waiting for the outcome, cant comment? Thats what has me so confused about how the Pats are handling their end.

[Hoosier]

Thats accurate for sure. But why then do the strong denial pressers. If the pats thought the vid had even a chance to incriminate them, why not just keep saying, we are co operating and waiting for the outcome, cant comment? Thats what has me so confused about how the Pats are handling their end.

My genuine, honest opinion...arrogance.

[IndyBarb]

Cheating and lying may get you the trophy, however, respect will continue to wane for this NE team.   

[Archer]

The funny thing is that if the truth were known, I bet Spygate and Deflategate are two of the milder examples of Patriot cheating.  We'll never know, but it seems unlikely that the world caught whiff of the only two shady things being done in NE.  And let's face it, once we know BB is WILLING to cheat (obvious), we know that he's only limited by what he thinks he can get away with.  If the hiring of some ex-CIA electronic surveilance guru could enable him to listen to everything said into opponents' helmet radios, do we have any doubt that BB would do it?  I bet BB is getting discouraged because he was doing so much worse than deflategate, yet he has to answer for this p1$s@nt stuff! 

[PeterBowman]

Cheating and lying may get you the trophy, however, respect will continue to wane for this NE team.   

and I don't think they care about respect....winning is all that matters to them

[Gramz]

The investigators were going to get that footage, period.

The only choice for the Patriots was to turn it over immediately and appear cooperative...or destroy it and really screw themselves.

The Ray Rice scandal, the Adrian Peterson scandal,  both played out and were eventually punished due to public outrage and demand that something be done.

 

My best guess is BB held those pressers because he was trying to sway public outrage, but for the most part his pressers changed very little in what people think, feel, and are continuing to demand answers for.

 

And yes, I agree with you.  Investigators were going to the get the footage anyway.  Of course they turned it over to appear cooperative.

[Bad Morty]

and I don't think they care about respect....winning is all that matters to them

 

They don't care about or expect to receive respect from the fans and ex-players of teams they've been destroying for 15 years, nor should they. Ironically enough, this witch hunt is backfiring on the NFL to such a level that I think it's actually going to end up improving the national perception of the Patriots once the team is fully exonerated of any/all wrong doing here. The hard core haters will always have their tin-foil hat conspiracy theories to fall back on, but as of right now, this story has shifted to one where an incompetent commissioner conducted a witch hunt against one of its premier franchises only to have it blow up in his face.

[Gramz]

[Flying Elvis]

The funny thing is that if the truth were known, I bet Spygate and Deflategate are two of the milder examples of Patriot cheating.  We'll never know, but it seems unlikely that the world caught whiff of the only two shady things being done in NE.  And let's face it, once we know BB is WILLING to cheat (obvious), we know that he's only limited by what he thinks he can get away with.  If the hiring of some ex-CIA electronic surveilance guru could enable him to listen to everything said into opponents' helmet radios, do we have any doubt that BB would do it?  I bet BB is getting discouraged because he was doing so much worse than deflategate, yet he has to answer for this p1$s@nt stuff! 

It depends upon your point of view. The Patriots in the Belichick era have had only one rule violation as near as I can tell. I mean, yahoo sports had a list of Patriots scandals which included the "tuck rule" and "illegal formations". These were both legal yet they are now scandals?

[OffensivelyPC]

Thats accurate for sure. But why then do the strong denial pressers. If the pats thought the vid had even a chance to incriminate them, why not just keep saying, we are co operating and waiting for the outcome, cant comment? Thats what has me so confused about how the Pats are handling their end.

How many times have people come out and vehemently criticized investigations against them and ended up being that they really were guilty?  I don't disagree that they could really believe what they're saying and actually be right.  I also believe it's entirely possible that they're putting this front on in defense of themselves regardless of the outcome - which could go against them.  Until all the numbers and facts are released, there are still some very valid questions that need to be answered such as, why were the Pats footballs deflated under the limit and the Cotls footballs were not?  Science can settle that of course, but as we've seen all the dozens of experiments, there's no clear definitive answer to that question yet.  Why would a ball boy choose to take 24 footballs into a bathroom where, by most state laws and regulations, is illegal to have a camera in a private bathroom? 

 

I'm sure there are others, but these questions don't get honestly answered unless the Patriots are honest in their cooperation.  If there isn't a camera in the bathroom, it's pretty tough for the NFL to prove the ball boy tampered with the footballs unless he confesses - and I don't see why he would.  So it basically gets left to the imagination of the person hearing the evidence.  Is someone lying or are they telling teh truth?  We may never know and that's pretty difficult for me to swallow even if the Pats 3 most recognizable faces ahve stated they didn't do anythign wrong and demand an apology if the evidence doesn't show any tampering.

[jabbanobadda]

They don't care about or expect to receive respect from the fans and ex-players of teams they've been destroying for 15 years, nor should they. Ironically enough, this witch hunt is backfiring on the NFL to such a level that I think it's actually going to end up improving the national perception of the Patriots once the team is fully exonerated of any/all wrong doing here. The hard core haters will always have their tin-foil hat conspiracy theories to fall back on, but as of right now, this story has shifted to one where an incompetent commissioner conducted a witch hunt against one of its premier franchises only to have it blow up in his face.

So tell me again how people are jealous of a team that hasn't won anything in ten years.

[Bad Morty]

So tell me again how people are jealous of a team that hasn't won anything in ten years.

 

Well...we're on page 23 of this Patriots related topic on a Colts fan forum, so you tell me? I must have missed the 23 page thread on the Jacksonville Jaguars and Cleveland Browns here.

[Gramz]

Well...we're on page 23 of this Patriots related topic on a Colts fan forum, so you tell me? I must have missed the 23 page thread on the Jacksonville Jaguars and Cleveland Browns here.

I don't believe Jacksonville or Cleveland fans spend their time here like the Pats fans do.  JMO, but that might be the reason

[OffensivelyPC]

Well...we're on page 23 of this Patriots related topic on a Colts fan forum, so you tell me? I must have missed the 23 page thread on the Jacksonville Jaguars and Cleveland Browns here.

Go to any Trent Richardson thread.

 

EDIT: Also, I find it funny that you come to a Colts forum, talk about the Patritos and call us jealous for responding.

[jabbanobadda]

Well...we're on page 23 of this Patriots related topic on a Colts fan forum, so you tell me? I must have missed the 23 page thread on the Jacksonville Jaguars and Cleveland Browns here.

I don't know...do the Jags and Browns cheat all the time? Maybe they do. I compare being mad at the Patriots for winning would be like being mad at the early 90's Buffalo Bills for winning. That's just me though.

[AndreRison]

There is no doubt the ball boy did it in the bathroom in 90 seconds. The Patriots set that up so they have plausible deniability if they were ever caught. There is no reason to take a "leak" at that time. The Patriots even sent the video themselves, so the league would think they were on the up and up.

[indy1888]

Deflating 11 balls in 90 seconds can be done easily, especially if you are someone who does it on a regular basis.

[Cynjin]

Well...we're on page 23 of this Patriots related topic on a Colts fan forum, so you tell me? I must have missed the 23 page thread on the Jacksonville Jaguars and Cleveland Browns here.

I must have missed where the Jags and Browns were caught cheating or have the reputation for crossing the line repeatedly.

[da_pats_troll]

How many times have people come out and vehemently criticized investigations against them and ended up being that they really were guilty?  I don't disagree that they could really believe what they're saying and actually be right.  I also believe it's entirely possible that they're putting this front on in defense of themselves regardless of the outcome - which could go against them.  Until all the numbers and facts are released, there are still some very valid questions that need to be answered such as, why were the Pats footballs deflated under the limit and the Cotls footballs were not?  Science can settle that of course, but as we've seen all the dozens of experiments, there's no clear definitive answer to that question yet.  Why would a ball boy choose to take 24 footballs into a bathroom where, by most state laws and regulations, is illegal to have a camera in a private bathroom? 

 

I'm sure there are others, but these questions don't get honestly answered unless the Patriots are honest in their cooperation.  If there isn't a camera in the bathroom, it's pretty tough for the NFL to prove the ball boy tampered with the footballs unless he confesses - and I don't see why he would.  So it basically gets left to the imagination of the person hearing the evidence.  Is someone lying or are they telling teh truth?  We may never know and that's pretty difficult for me to swallow even if the Pats 3 most recognizable faces ahve stated they didn't do anythign wrong and demand an apology if the evidence doesn't show any tampering.

 

They have played this so strong, I am now convinced if the pats are found guilty of deliberately tampering, ie, the ball boy did it under directions of someone, the only reasonable outcome is Kraft has to step down, hand off to his son. His son would have to fire BB, and cut Brady.

 

Plus whatever penalty assessed by the league.   

 

My take on the demanded apology is not that there is an investigation in as much as how its been handled with "leaks"