Hilton v Browner

[Atlas Shrugged NFL]

All these Pats fans in here think they have it all figured out!  There secondary is so great (which is true), but have they ever thought how weak they are in the run game?  I wouldn't be surprised if this is the biggest ground n pound game we have this season, because the Pats are one of the worst teams in the league defending the run! 

 

We wont need Luck to throw much more than 25-30 times this game because Trent and Ahmad is going to run the ball down there throats.  Everybody is expecting a shootout, but wouldnt it be a heck of a game plan to just work the run game control the TOP like always and mix in the pass.  If they dare us to run because they're so worried about our aerial assault, then we will gash them for big gains in the run game.  Then when they get sick of getting ran on, the Patriots stack the box, Colts do play action and beat them deep

 

That way if it's close late in the game their defense is already tired and people like Moncrief, Nicks, and Fleener can shine because they weren't worked all game and realitively fresh compared to the Patriot defense, due to that type of strategy.  Maybe I'm over thinking it, but I say get our RB's heavily involved in the run and pass game, and let those horses work!

 

 

Pats did a great job at stopping the Broncos' run game.

 

As a Pats fan I would love nothing more and hope for nothing more in this game for the Colts to be more conservative and run the ball and play keep away.  It means that the Colts' WR's are being covered well.  It slows down the tempo.  The Colts are not a smash mouth ground and pound team.  They're not.  They want to throw and light teams up.

 

No team wants to get into a shootout with the Colts.  The Steelers were at home on grass, sort of bad weather.  Colts were out of their element and caught off guard.  But it's indoors in Indy and the Colts SHOULD have no problem throwing it around like arena football and throwing bombs down field...

 

All I'm saying is if you see a low scoring game and the Colts are running the ball it means the Pats' D is doing a good job at confusing Luck and Luck doesn't have the confidence to throw it into Belichick's schemes.

 

But why would Luck and all his weapons indoors be running the ball?

[Atlas Shrugged NFL]

Luck will take what he is given.  If the Pats don't want to rush he will have time in the pocket to look at all of his options (which will get open eventually, even against that great secondary), or Luck can wiggle away and run for a first down.  If they do blitz then Luck just needs to check it down to either Ahmad or Trent.  I'm pretty sure Andrew has learned by now not to force things against the Pats, but take your shots when they're given, but spread the wealth (like he's done all season), and hit the best guy that's open.

 

Why didn't Luck do that in NE?

[oldunclemark]

There isn't anyone who can guard Gronkowski....you have to get to Tom Brady

[ProblChld32]

hmmmm, the other day all I read on here was: "Gronk better fear Davis." "Davis will shut down Gronk."

 

I mean, all I read on here was Davis might be the #1 corner in the NFL, even better than Talib.

 

You don't want to rely on Sergio Brown.

 

 

Colts have a better WR core.

Colts have a better D-line IF Mathis plays.

 

Pats have better TE's.

Pats have better LB's.

Pats have a better O-line.

Pats have a better secondary.

 

What better TE's do you refer to? you say TE's as in plural? last time the Pat's had better TE's then the Colts Hernandez was still on the roster. Outside of Gronk there are a bunch of question marks at that position for NE

[ColtStronger]

hmmmm, the other day all I read on here was: "Gronk better fear Davis." "Davis will shut down Gronk."

 

I mean, all I read on here was Davis might be the #1 corner in the NFL, even better than Talib.

 

You don't want to rely on Sergio Brown.

 

 

Colts have a better WR core.

Colts have a better D-line IF Mathis plays.

 

Pats have better TE's.

Pats have better LB's.

Pats have a better O-line.

Pats have a better secondary.

Colts have better LB's just not great in coverage.  Pats LB's aren't that good though.

Overall Colts have better TE's (It's just Gronk is the best TE on the field)

Pats have a better O-Line, maybe but that's debateable.

Pats have a better secondary, Yes, but not by much

 

Colts definitely have a better WR corp

Colts definitely have a better RB tandem

I would have to say Luck is better than Brady!  (He can run and is much stronger)

 

There you have it Colts are better lol

[TKnight24]

You're kidding? Is he not healthy or has his game declined that much? I remember at the beginning of the season after the first 3 or 4 games some Colts fans were complaining about his lack of productivity.

nah man

I'm just hoping the coaches realized over the bye week that he's been terrible

If we can keep a $40million Safety benched, don't see why we should commit to a one year deal when a rookie is outworking him

Just my opinion

[Atlas Shrugged NFL]

Oh they definitely should (the bold part in the first paragraph). If they get TY out wide on Browner with no help, then they'd be crazy to not take a couple of shots with that. Browner's not fast or agile enough to keep up with Hilton if he lets him get off the line. 

 

Revis, I don't know... he's not the fastest guy with a stopwatch but his game speed is unreal. He anticipates routes so well. If they were playing matchups, I'd feel better with Revis on Hilton and Browner on Reggie. But I don't think they'll do that at all. I think they'll mix it up a lot. 

 

There will not be any one on one with TY in long field coverage where the Pats have a long field to defend where TY can stretch his legs.  I bet they will put Revis one on one with TY if the Colts are in the red zone.  Browner can also shut down the best WR's in the red zone where tight coverage is all there is.

[Atlas Shrugged NFL]

Colts have better LB's just not great in coverage.  Pats LB's aren't that good though.

Overall Colts have better TE's (It's just Gronk is the best TE on the field)

Pats have a better O-Line, maybe but that's debateable.

Pats have a better secondary, Yes, but not by much

 

Colts definitely have a better WR corp

Colts definitely have a better RB tandem

I would have to say Luck is better than Brady!  (He can run and is much stronger)

 

There you have it Colts are better lol

 

Pats have better LB's. And because the Colts' LB's are absolutely atrocious in coverage that gives the Pats' LB's the advantage.

Pats have better TE's.  (Wright has the second most TD's ever for a rookie TE.)  And he's improving every week.  Gronk might be the best in the NFL now.  And no, Allen is not better than Gronk, Thomas, Graham, Gates.

 

Gronk is a #1 option.  Allen is a role player who will get a look if TY, Wayne and the other WR's aren't open.  Teams don't game plan around Allen.  They game plan around Gronk.

 

Brady is smarter and more accurate than Luck with fewer INT's and fewer weapons.

Luck is younger, faster, stronger and loaded with weapons.

[corgi]

There will not be any one on one with TY in long field coverage where the Pats have a long field to defend where TY can stretch his legs.  I bet they will put Revis one on one with TY if the Colts are in the red zone.  Browner can also shut down the best WR's in the red zone where tight coverage is all there is.

That's fine, then Luck will throw it to Bradshaw or Allen. So let Revis cover TY and Browner Cover Reggie. There's also Fleener, Mocrief, Richardson, Doyle, and Nicks. Plenty of capable players for Luck to throw to, or he could always run it in himself.

[ColtStronger]

Pats did a great job at stopping the Broncos' run game.

 

As a Pats fan I would love nothing more and hope for nothing more in this game for the Colts to be more conservative and run the ball and play keep away.  It means that the Colts' WR's are being covered well.  It slows down the tempo.  The Colts are not a smash mouth ground and pound team.  They're not.  They want to throw and light teams up.

 

No team wants to get into a shootout with the Colts.  The Steelers were at home on grass, sort of bad weather.  Colts were out of their element and caught off guard.  But it's indoors in Indy and the Colts SHOULD have no problem throwing it around like arena football and throwing bombs down field...

 

All I'm saying is if you see a low scoring game and the Colts are running the ball it means the Pats' D is doing a good job at confusing Luck and Luck doesn't have the confidence to throw it into Belichick's schemes.

 

But why would Luck and all his weapons indoors be running the ball?

You've referenced the Denver game for the millionth time the last 2 games, which has absolutely nothing to do with THIS game!

So just because they were able to stop Denver's run game (which isn't as good as Indy's), does NOT mean they will be able to handle Ahmad and Trent BOTH (on the road).

 

You make it sound like its an all or nothing thing.  Run all the time or Pass all the time... That isn't the case.  What I'm saying is maybe go deep the first play of the game to get those Pat defenders thinking its gonna be a shootout, then the (majority) of the rest of the first drive run the ball.  Perhaps come out running the ball on the second drive then pass pass pass, but adventually settle down, and really start pounding the ball once each team has had a couple possessions. 

 

You get my point though, be creative and unpredictable but run the majority of the time.  Pep has been alot better with that recently.  Patriots don't have depth up front like they do in their secondary (and they're not the best in that aspect either).  Hence the reason why they will wear down faster.

[corgi]

Pats have better LB's. And because the Colts' LB's are absolutely atrocious in coverage that gives the Pats' LB's the advantage.

Pats have better TE's.  (Wright has the second most TD's ever for a rookie TE.)  And he's improving every week.  Gronk might be the best in the NFL now.  And no, Allen is not better than Gronk, Thomas, Graham, Gates.

 

Gronk is a #1 option.  Allen is a role player who will get a look if TY, Wayne and the other WR's aren't open.  Teams don't game plan around Allen.  They game plan around Gronk.

 

Brady is smarter and more accurate than Luck with fewer INT's and fewer weapons.

Luck is younger, faster, stronger and loaded with weapons.

Glad you think you know about Allen, and if the Patriots are dumb enough to not game plane around Allen then so be it. Are you talking football IQ when saying Brady is smarter than Luck? Because I highly doubt he's smarter than Luck.

[NewColtsFan]

nah man

I'm just hoping the coaches realized over the bye week that he's been terrible

If we can keep a $40million Safety benched, don't see why we should commit to a one year deal when a rookie is outworking him

Just my opinion

 

We don't have a $40 million dollar safety.   Landry's deal is $24 Mill over 4 years....  $6 Mill per year.

 

Not sure we have a $40 million dollar anything.    But we will in a year or so when Luck finally gets his big deal....

[ColtStronger]

Why didn't Luck do that in NE?

For the last time...

Different game

Different teams (Roster)

Different venue (yes, it does matter to)

Different strategies

 

And the list goes on!

[ColtStronger]

There will not be any one on one with TY in long field coverage where the Pats have a long field to defend where TY can stretch his legs.  I bet they will put Revis one on one with TY if the Colts are in the red zone.  Browner can also shut down the best WR's in the red zone where tight coverage is all there is.

Go ahead and put Revis on TY in the redzone he isn't much of an option down there considering our other weapons!

[Atlas Shrugged NFL]

That's fine, then Luck will throw it to Bradshaw or Allen. So let Revis cover TY and Browner Cover Reggie. There's also Fleener, Mocrief, Richardson, Doyle, and Nicks. Plenty of capable players for Luck to throw to, or he could always run it in himself.

 

And the Pats will have Logan Ryan, Butler, Dennard, Arrington, McCourty, Chung and Jones available in the secondary too.  And Collins at LB who can cover better than any Colt LB.

 

Since Wayne lost a step and is a slot receiver the Pats really don't have to put Revis or Browner on him..

[ColtStronger]

Pats have better LB's. And because the Colts' LB's are absolutely atrocious in coverage that gives the Pats' LB's the advantage.

Pats have better TE's.  (Wright has the second most TD's ever for a rookie TE.)  And he's improving every week.  Gronk might be the best in the NFL now.  And no, Allen is not better than Gronk, Thomas, Graham, Gates.

 

Gronk is a #1 option.  Allen is a role player who will get a look if TY, Wayne and the other WR's aren't open.  Teams don't game plan around Allen.  They game plan around Gronk.

 

Brady is smarter and more accurate than Luck with fewer INT's and fewer weapons.

Luck is younger, faster, stronger and loaded with weapons.

But the Pat's LB's are terrible in run defense, and that's the reason they're ranked 26th (what somebody said earlier) in that category.

 

Allen and Fleener is a great tandem.  I believe Superman posted the stats for you yesterday to show you how Allen is actually better than J. Thomas, he just doesn't get as many touches because of all the Colts' threats.  Teams may not gameplan around Allen, but how do you know, I bet you have alot of conversations with all the D-Coordinators around the league huh?  That's why you're so knowledgeable.  If they don't it's because they're worried about TY Reggie Ahmad and other great options.  Also look out for Jack Doyle, because he may not have a big name, but he plays like a big boy.

 

I don't know if I would call Brady smarter, he has more experience and that goes along with it, but I'd have to say he is one of the smartest QB's in the league.  Brady has less INT's because he doesn't take risks like Luck does, nor does he throw it nearly as many times, so that is to be expected with a younger QB.

[Atlas Shrugged NFL]

Go ahead and put Revis on TY in the redzone he isn't much of an option down there considering our other weapons!

 

Ok, so TY is one dimensional.  The Pats will know what coverage and what CB to put on TY in long down field coverage and what to do in the red zone.

 

TY in the first 15 to 20 yards off the line of scrimmage is not that good?  Is that what you're saying?  How many receptions does TY have in the red zone and within the first 15 yards off the line of scrimmage?

 

So put one of the lesser CB's on TY in the red zone and the Pats have the options to put their better CB's and safety's on the Colts' best red zone weapons.

[BlueCollarColts]

Hilton tore Browner apart last time they played... Just sayin'

[James Harden]

Speed over strength. Hilton gonna blow pass Browner.  

[Atlas Shrugged NFL]

But the Pat's LB's are terrible in run defense, and that's the reason they're ranked 26th (what somebody said earlier) in that category.

 

Allen and Fleener is a great tandem.  I believe Superman posted the stats for you yesterday to show you how Allen is actually better than J. Thomas, he just doesn't get as many touches because of all the Colts' threats.  Teams may not gameplan around Allen, but how do you know, I bet you have alot of conversations with all the D-Coordinators around the league huh?  That's why you're so knowledgeable.  If they don't it's because they're worried about TY Reggie Ahmad and other great options.  Also look out for Jack Doyle, because he may not have a big name, but he plays like a big boy.

 

I don't know if I would call Brady smarter, he has more experience and that goes along with it, but I'd have to say he is one of the smartest QB's in the league.  Brady has less INT's because he doesn't take risks like Luck does, nor does he throw it nearly as many times, so that is to be expected with a younger QB.

 

Well, tell that to the Broncos.

 

The Colts' TE's are not game changers.  If the Colts need to rely on either running the ball or dinks and dunks to their TE's to try to slowly move the ball up the field I'll take that instead of 50+ yard TD's to TY.  That takes time off the clock and keeps it a low scoring game.  And it will put the Colts' inferior secondary and LB's in a bad position to try to stop the Pats when they get the ball.  You don't want your D to be put in a position where they are responsible for trying to make a stop late in the 4th.

 

And if the Colts have to run the ball in this game at home indoors that is a moral victory for the Patriots.  I mean who would have thought with the Colts' offense they need to rely on a run game?  Oh my.  Teams use to LOVE throwing on the Patriots' secondary.

[ColtStronger]

Ok, so TY is one dimensional.  The Pats will know what coverage and what CB to put on TY in long down field coverage and what to do in the red zone.

 

TY in the first 15 to 20 yards off the line of scrimmage is not that good?  Is that what you're saying?  How many receptions does TY have in the red zone and within the first 15 yards off the line of scrimmage?

 

So put one of the lesser CB's on TY in the red zone and the Pats have the options to put their better CB's and safety's on the Colts' best red zone weapons.

You really know what youre talking about!!  I think you should apply to be Belichick's assistant.  Maybe even OC or DC.  Heck you could probably just be the GM or HC.  Everything ANYBODY says you have a solution for!!  That takes brains and a special kind of talent

 

TY is a huge short down threat, but in the redzone he isn't one of the top targets. IE Bradshaw, Allen, Fleener, Wayne, in that order, early on in the season we got Nicks in there alot but haven't lately.  That is just passing, obviously Trent or Ahmad can punch it in also.  It is also about time Moncrief gets some reps in the redzone because he is probably the tallest WR we have.

[Atlas Shrugged NFL]

Speed over strength. Hilton gonna blow pass Browner.  

 

That would be great if Browner was actually going to cover TY.  It won't happen.  Maybe in the red zone where TY can't use his speed.

 

And what is TY's stats in the red zone and what does he do 10 to 15 yards off the line of scrimmage?  TY can be shut down in the red zone where there's not much field to cover.

[corgi]

And the Pats will have Logan Ryan, Butler, Dennard, Arrington, McCourty, Chung and Jones available in the secondary too.  And Collins at LB who can cover better than any Colt LB.

 

Since Wayne lost a step and is a slot receiver the Pats really don't have to put Revis or Browner on him..

Keep thinking Wayne has lost a step and is all washed up. I can also name Colts defensive players. That and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

[ColtStronger]

Ok, so TY is one dimensional.  The Pats will know what coverage and what CB to put on TY in long down field coverage and what to do in the red zone.

 

TY in the first 15 to 20 yards off the line of scrimmage is not that good?  Is that what you're saying?  How many receptions does TY have in the red zone and within the first 15 yards off the line of scrimmage?

 

So put one of the lesser CB's on TY in the red zone and the Pats have the options to put their better CB's and safety's on the Colts' best red zone weapons.

Anyway, you probably wont hear from me much of the rest of the week, but please be sure to comeback next Monday so you can admit that you're wrong about 80% of the garbage that came from you these last 2days...

 

Good Luck!  You're going to need it

PS We already have it

[Atlas Shrugged NFL]

You really know what youre talking about!!  I think you should apply to be Belichick's assistant.  Maybe even OC or DC.  Heck you could probably just be the GM or HC.  Everything ANYBODY says you have a solution for!!  That takes brains and a special kind of talent

 

TY is a huge short down threat, but in the redzone he isn't one of the top targets. IE Bradshaw, Allen, Fleener, Wayne, in that order, early on in the season we got Nicks in there alot but haven't lately.  That is just passing, obviously Trent or Ahmad can punch it in also.  It is also about time Moncrief gets some reps in the redzone because he is probably the tallest WR we have.

 

 

TY is a down field threat and can be shut down in the red zone where space is limited.  TY doesn't beat teams on short yardage downs.

 

lol @ TY being used in short yard plays.  Ok, please throw to him 5 to 10 yards off the line of scrimmage.  Feel free to.  I hope that's the game plan.

 

Seriously, TY will go deep and go deep often and the Pats will have to double team him.

[Atlas Shrugged NFL]

Keep thinking Wayne has lost a step and is all washed up. I can also name Colts defensive players. That and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

 

Woah, when did I say Wayne is washed up?  Overly sensitive Colts fan here.  I said he lost a step which is true.  Didn't Wayne even admit it himself?  He's being used as a slot receiver now isn't he?

[Dustin]

TY is a down field threat and can be shut down in the red zone where space is limited. TY doesn't beat teams on short yardage downs.

How does it feel to be so hilariously wrong on 90% of the things you say?

[Atlas Shrugged NFL]

Well I'm done.  All of you stay safe.  Good debating.  

[scousecolt]

Toler has been better than average this season...I'd say far better. Yeah he gets beat from time to time, all CBs do..but as our #2 he has been very good this year.

He gives up far too many yards after the catch but he is better this season, still statistically one of the worst in the league though.

[Dustin]

Woah, when did I say Wayne is washed up? Overly sensitive Colts fan here. I said he lost a step which is true. Didn't Wayne even admit it himself? He's being used as a slot receiver now isn't he?

He's been a slot receiver for 3 years.

[jvan1973]

And the Pats will have Logan Ryan, Butler, Dennard, Arrington, McCourty, Chung and Jones available in the secondary too. And Collins at LB who can cover better than any Colt LB.

Since Wayne lost a step and is a slot receiver the Pats really don't have to put Revis or Browner on him..

Pretty sure if the pats deploy 8 guys in the secondary, we may see Trent run for a career high

[Jason_]

Well, tell that to the Broncos.

 

The Colts' TE's are not game changers.  If the Colts need to rely on either running the ball or dinks and dunks to their TE's to try to slowly move the ball up the field I'll take that instead of 50+ yard TD's to TY.  That takes time off the clock and keeps it a low scoring game.  And it will put the Colts' inferior secondary and LB's in a bad position to try to stop the Pats when they get the ball.  You don't want your D to be put in a position where they are responsible for trying to make a stop late in the 4th.

 

And if the Colts have to run the ball in this game at home indoors that is a moral victory for the Patriots.  I mean who would have thought with the Colts' offense they need to rely on a run game?  Oh my.  Teams use to LOVE throwing on the Patriots' secondary.

 

more of this dink and dunk nonsense.  I've already shown you that the Colts don't dink and dunk to their TEs anymore than Brady does to Gronk.  Average yards per completion between Fleener, Allen and Gronk are virtually the same.

 

Who says the Colts are going to HAVE TO run the ball?  Maybe they run the ball because they want to, to keep the Pats defense guessing, to slow down the pass rush, to force the secondary to peek into the backfield, to setup play action.  You know, common football stuff. 

[Jason_]

That would be great if Browner was actually going to cover TY.  It won't happen.  Maybe in the red zone where TY can't use his speed.

 

And what is TY's stats in the red zone and what does he do 10 to 15 yards off the line of scrimmage?  TY can be shut down in the red zone where there's not much field to cover.

 

ever heard of this thing called Google?  Do your own homework ;)

[Jason_]

Woah, when did I say Wayne is washed up?  Overly sensitive Colts fan here.  I said he lost a step which is true.  Didn't Wayne even admit it himself?  He's being used as a slot receiver now isn't he?

 

when did anyone say half the crap you're attributing to colt fans?  Overly sensitive Pats fan here!

[Jason_]

Well I'm done.  All of you stay safe.  Good debating.  

 

you have no idea how to debate 

[coltsfanatic24]

Revis will be on Hilton but it won't matter, he has too much speed. Hilton will have a big game.

[RockThatBlue]

Woah, when did I say Wayne is washed up? Overly sensitive Colts fan here. I said he lost a step which is true. Didn't Wayne even admit it himself? He's being used as a slot receiver now isn't he?

Wayne has never been known for his speed. Shockingly youre wrong again.

[Jhaze55]

TY is a down field threat and can be shut down in the red zone where space is limited.  TY doesn't beat teams on short yardage downs.

 

lol @ TY being used in short yard plays.  Ok, please throw to him 5 to 10 yards off the line of scrimmage.  Feel free to.  I hope that's the game plan.

 

Seriously, TY will go deep and go deep often and the Pats will have to double team him.

Your football knowledge is lacking, especially about specific players.

[Stephen]

Pats have better LB's. And because the Colts' LB's are absolutely atrocious in coverage that gives the Pats' LB's the advantage.

Pats have better TE's. (Wright has the second most TD's ever for a rookie TE.) And he's improving every week. Gronk might be the best in the NFL now. And no, Allen is not better than Gronk, Thomas, Graham, Gates.

allen isn't a role player if luck targeted him as much as brady does g ronk he'd be the best team in the nfl

Gronk is a #1 option. Allen is a role player who will get a look if TY, Wayne and the other WR's aren't open. Teams don't game plan around Allen. They game plan around Gronk.

Brady is smarter and more accurate than Luck with fewer INT's and fewer weapons.

Luck is younger, faster, stronger and loaded with weapons.

[ViriLudant]

Hoping we take advantage of this match up. Hilton has burnt Browner in past, Browner hasn't got the legs to keep up with Hilton on crossing routes or on deep balls. I think this and possibly Moncrief on Browner too could be a big advantage to the Colts.

Except that this won't be the matchup.

I anticipate Browner on Allen, actually.