Thornton benched for disciplinary reasons (merge)

[akcolt]

If you have to,  go to a Sports Bar.    The noise will be great,  but you likely won't hear the audio of the game announcers.

 

But it's a nationally televised game,   so you've got to make sure you can see it,  and enjoy it!

I will be at a Sports Bar you can count on it. There are a surprising amount of New Englanders that live up here. I swear half the graduating law class from Northeastern practices law in this state. So if things go the way I think they will it should be great fun.

 

Red Sox and Pats fans are some of the most obnoxious I have come across.

[John Waylon]

Kinda sucks to see Luck get punished as a result too, though.

Rules are rules and should be upheld, no doubt, (are you listening adrian Peterson?) but those rules may not be rules around here for long if Luck gets seriously hurt because Louis can't even block a small child.

[RockThatBlue]

Louis is really awful.

He was bad. Ayers owned him all game. Gosder too.

[John Waylon]

I don't think Luck was the most hit QB in the league last season. According to SI it was Russell Wilson.

So he gets hit better than Luck, too?

Man, is there anything he doesn't do better than Luck?

[John Waylon]

He was bad. Ayers owned him all game. Gosder too.

Gosder's play is becoming alarming for what we're paying him.

They say he's playing with some injuries, but I know several Lions fans who say that it's how he played for them as well.

[RockThatBlue]

Gosder's play is becoming alarming for what we're paying him.

They say he's playing with some injuries, but I know several Lions fans who say that it's how he played for them as well.

I'm still amazed at how good Gosder was in the Denver game. Ever since then hes been flat out terrible.

[Superman]

Gosder's play is becoming alarming for what we're paying him.

They say he's playing with some injuries, but I know several Lions fans who say that it's how he played for them as well.

 

Gosder was good last night. Ayers got him once, on a really good spin move.

 

And don't forget, Ayers is a really good pass rusher. He had a ton of pressures for the Broncos last year.

[John Waylon]

Gosder was good last night. Ayers got him once, on a really good spin move.

And don't forget, Ayers is a really good pass rusher. He had a ton of pressures for the Broncos last year.

I really like Ayers. I actually thought he was a guy we should have at least given some thought to in the offseason, but I never hear any indication we did.

Would be nice to have him with Mathis out. We definitely took pass rush for granted having him around. Now that he's hurt we're using all the bells as whistles in our toolbox, but as we saw last week against Pittsburgh, when those don't work we're really kinda screwed because we don't have someone with the pure rush moves to get pressure.

This has actually been my biggest concern about the Pats game all season. You MUST pressure Brady to beat him.

[GoColts8818]

Gosder's play is becoming alarming for what we're paying him.

They say he's playing with some injuries, but I know several Lions fans who say that it's how he played for them as well.

I'll say this if his play is a product of injury then his injury is bad enough it's impacting his play to a level he's hurting the team which I would be exploring other options if I were the Colts coaches. 

 

With that said it looked like most of the issues on the right side last night had to do with Louis more than GC.  Still GC's play as of late has not been good. 

[Superman]

I really like Ayers. I actually thought he was a guy we should have at least given some thought to in the offseason, but I never hear any indication we did.

Would be nice to have him with Mathis out. We definitely took pass rush for granted having him around. Now that he's hurt we're using all the bells as whistles in our toolbox, but as we saw last week against Pittsburgh, when those don't work we're really kinda screwed because we don't have someone with the pure rush moves to get pressure.

This has actually been my biggest concern about the Pats game all season. You MUST pressure Brady to beat him.

 

I would have liked to have Ayers also. He only got two years, $3.75m. But he's a much better fit in a four down front, where he can play three-tech from the inside against guards, rather than tackles. He's also not very good against the run. As a situational player, he'd have been a good addition, but overall, our defense probably isn't best for him.

[dw49]

Gosder was good last night. Ayers got him once, on a really good spin move.

 

And don't forget, Ayers is a really good pass rusher. He had a ton of pressures for the Broncos last year.

 

 

I agree.. I thought Gosder was fine.

[TKnight24]

@HolderStephen: Updated: Tardiness was the culprit>>> Colts' Hugh Thornton benched in disciplinary move http://t.co/wQVdbEBr0f via @indystar

There's the answer

[MTC]

@HolderStephen: Updated: Tardiness was the culprit>>> Colts' Hugh Thornton benched in disciplinary move http://t.co/wQVdbEBr0f via @indystar

There's the answer

There's more to it than that.

[MTC]

I would guess alcohol was involved.

[Superman]

I would guess alcohol was involved.

 

Based on what?

[Superman]

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/11/04/colts-hugh-thornton-benched-disciplinary/18455127/

[Cynjin]

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/11/04/colts-hugh-thornton-benched-disciplinary/18455127/

Apparently he needs a better watch or alarm clock.

[MTC]

Based on what?

 

The fact he was late to meetings and walk throughs. 

 

There has to be more to the story if he just was late to a meeting. Revis did it a few weeks ago and had no disciplinary issues on gameday. 

[Superman]

The fact he was late to meetings and walk throughs. 

 

There has to be more to the story if he just was late to a meeting. Revis did it a few weeks ago and had no disciplinary issues on gameday. 

 

That's a stretch. I don't know why there needs to be more than this. He was late (don't know whether he'd been late before), they benched him. Seems simple and straightforward to me.

 

The Patriots didn't bench Revis, but they did send him home. That was midweek. It seems like Thornton's issue might have been on Monday, since no one had heard anything about him not playing until the game started. The ESPN crew even had him on the starting lineup.

[Coffeedrinker]

The fact he was late to meetings and walk throughs. 

 

There has to be more to the story if he just was late to a meeting. Revis did it a few weeks ago and had no disciplinary issues on gameday. 

What difference does it make what happened to Revis?  Different team, different team rules.

[deadman]

For what it's worth...

 

Dan Graham ‏@coltsinsider 1h1 hour ago

#Colts Thornton benching was curfew and alcohol related. Late for bed check stinking like tequila. #Dumb Go party on your day off man.

[MTC]

For what it's worth...

 

Dan Graham ‏@coltsinsider 1h1 hour ago

#Colts Thornton benching was curfew and alcohol related. Late for bed check stinking like tequila. #Dumb Go party on your day off man.

 

Yep. 

[NewColtsFan]

It's not really interesting. Holder is just wrong.

 

Luck was hit 8 times out of 49 dropbacks against Pittsburgh, hit rate of 14%. He was hit 9 times out of 48 dropbacks against the Giants, hit rate of 18%. The protection wasn't any better last night, it was arguably worse, and a lot of the pressures came from Louis. (PFF credits Louis with 1 sack and 4 hits, 55% of the hits that Luck took; plus 2 more hurries.)

 

Thornton has been up and down, but he's twice as good as Louis. And he's still young and presumably getting better.

 

I don't mean to be disagreeable,  but I think those stats are terribly misleading.

 

I never worried for Luck last night,  even though the pass blocking was poor.

 

But I was worried for Luck most every snap vs. Pittsburgh.    The Steelers made it clear they were coming for him.

 

I also think the hit rate things is misleading.    How about all the other snaps were you're close to the QB?   Where you're coming up the middle and forcing the QB to get rid of the ball early?     I think the hits by Pittsburgh were much more violent than the ones given by the Giants last night.

 

Call it what you will -- call it the "eye ball test".....      but that test told me Luck was fighting for his life vs. Pittsburgh while he was figuring out the defense vs. the NYG.

 

Just a different perspective.....

[NewColtsFan]

The fact he was late to meetings and walk throughs. 

 

There has to be more to the story if he just was late to a meeting. Revis did it a few weeks ago and had no disciplinary issues on gameday. 

 

Revis was 5 minutes late for a mid-week practice.

 

Thornton was late for bed check and eventually smelled of alcohol the night before a game.

 

That's a huge difference.    Huge.

[Superman]

Yep. 

 

There you go. I don't know where that came from, but you were right...

[Superman]

I don't mean to be disagreeable,  but I think those stats are terribly misleading.

 

I never worried for Luck last night,  even though the pass blocking was poor.

 

But I was worried for Luck most every snap vs. Pittsburgh.    The Steelers made it clear they were coming for him.

 

I also think the hit rate things is misleading.    How about all the other snaps were you're close to the QB?   Where you're coming up the middle and forcing the QB to get rid of the ball early?     I think the hits by Pittsburgh were much more violent than the ones given by the Giants last night.

 

Call it what you will -- call it the "eye ball test".....      but that test told me Luck was fighting for his life vs. Pittsburgh while he was figuring out the defense vs. the NYG.

 

Just a different perspective.....

 

The reason for stats is to objectively measure what we see. He got hit more times against the Giants, in fewer dropbacks. I don't know what's misleading about that.

 

I do agree that the Steelers hit him more violently, and plenty of the hits were late and/or dirty, IMO. But that's not a knock on the protection. That's the Steelers being dirty.

 

Anyways, the post I responded to said that the protection was better last night than it was against the Steelers, and I don't agree with that at all. Again, Luck got hit more against the Giants. And as it pertains to Louis, he was the worst lineman for us last night, so the idea that the protection was better because of him is entirely off base, even if the protection was better (and I don't agree that it was, of course).

[Coffeedrinker]

For what it's worth...

 

Dan Graham ‏@coltsinsider 1h1 hour ago

#Colts Thornton benching was curfew and alcohol related. Late for bed check stinking like tequila. #Dumb Go party on your day off man.

I'm not saying this is not true but the source on this is not the most reliable.

[deadman]

I'm not saying this is not true but the source on this is not the most reliable.

Completely agree. That's why I added 'For what it's worth...'.

[Coffeedrinker]

Completely agree. That's why I added 'For what it's worth...'.

It was more for the people that read that. 

[NewColtsFan]

The reason for stats is to objectively measure what we see. He got hit more times against the Giants, in fewer dropbacks. I don't know what's misleading about that.

 

I do agree that the Steelers hit him more violently, and plenty of the hits were late and/or dirty, IMO. But that's not a knock on the protection. That's the Steelers being dirty.

 

Anyways, the post I responded to said that the protection was better last night than it was against the Steelers, and I don't agree with that at all. Again, Luck got hit more against the Giants. And as it pertains to Louis, he was the worst lineman for us last night, so the idea that the protection was better because of him is entirely off base, even if the protection was better (and I don't agree that it was, of course).

 

I'm sorry,  I don't understand the last paragraph -- at all.

 

Did I even mention Louis?    I've said in other threads he was the worst of our lineman last night.   I don't know what that graph had to do with our discussion?

 

Let's create a new category....   beyond just hits.    We're already in agreement that the Pittsburgh hits were more violent than the NYG were.     Now, let's talk about near misses.    I thought there were far more near misses from Pittsburgh where I held my breath in fear for Luck.     And again,  I never felt that way last night.

 

Don't get me wrong,  I'm not defending last night's effort by the o-line.    Not at all.    It was not acceptable to me.

 

I just thought the line was worse and more overwhelmed a week ago than one night ago,  the stats not withstanding....

[throwing BBZ]

I am pretty sure the coaches have been watching what Holmes can do during practice. A healthy inactive pretty much sums up his ability. They won't let him play C? Are you joking? It's not Pop Warner best players play.

 

 Puke!

[throwing BBZ]

The reason for stats is to objectively measure what we see. He got hit more times against the Giants, in fewer dropbacks. I don't know what's misleading about that.

 

I do agree that the Steelers hit him more violently, and plenty of the hits were late and/or dirty, IMO. But that's not a knock on the protection. That's the Steelers being dirty.

 

Anyways, the post I responded to said that the protection was better last night than it was against the Steelers, and I don't agree with that at all. Again, Luck got hit more against the Giants. And as it pertains to Louis, he was the worst lineman for us last night, so the idea that the protection was better because of him is entirely off base, even if the protection was better (and I don't agree that it was, of course).

 

 The O-Lines protection was better last nite. Few of the hits were meaningful.

 Bradshaw was bad in protection. Louis was better than Thorntons play man on man, but he and Harrison did not play well together.

 Harrison was confused pretty badly against Pittsburgh also.

[Coffeedrinker]

I'm sorry,  I don't understand the last paragraph -- at all.

 

Did I even mention Louis?    I've said in other threads he was the worst of our lineman last night.   I don't know what that graph had to do with our discussion?

 

Let's create a new category....   beyond just hits.    We're already in agreement that the Pittsburgh hits were more violent than the NYG were.     Now, let's talk about near misses.    I thought there were far more near misses from Pittsburgh where I held my breath in fear for Luck.     And again,  I never felt that way last night.

 

Don't get me wrong,  I'm not defending last night's effort by the o-line.    Not at all.    It was not acceptable to me.

 

I just thought the line was worse and more overwhelmed a week ago than one night ago,  the stats not withstanding....

They usually call those near misses QB hurries.

 

Just sayin'

[throwing BBZ]

Gosder was good last night. Ayers got him once, on a really good spin move.

 

And don't forget, Ayers is a really good pass rusher. He had a ton of pressures for the Broncos last year.

 

 Hardly good. He wasn`t flat out Bad like most weeks, but they got around him and near Andrew quite a bit.

[ponyboy]

Let's create a new category....   beyond just hits.    We're already in agreement that the Pittsburgh hits were more violent than the NYG were.     Now, let's talk about near misses.    I thought there were far more near misses from Pittsburgh where I held my breath in fear for Luck.     And again,  I never felt that way last night.

 

Pitt:  14 hurries, 6 hits, 1 sack

NY:  12 hurries, 8 hits, 1 sack

[Gavin]

The O Line gave up 11 QB hits last night according to ESPN numbers....7 from Ayers alone.........Any QB hit is meaningful....Considering any one of them could be the last hit you take

[HtownColt]

@mchappell51: #colts Pagano: RG Hugh Thornton pulled from starting lineup. In house. Won't go into details. Get back Monday he'll be back at RG. @rtv6

[Superman]

I'm sorry,  I don't understand the last paragraph -- at all.

 

Did I even mention Louis?    I've said in other threads he was the worst of our lineman last night.   I don't know what that graph had to do with our discussion?

 

Let's create a new category....   beyond just hits.    We're already in agreement that the Pittsburgh hits were more violent than the NYG were.     Now, let's talk about near misses.    I thought there were far more near misses from Pittsburgh where I held my breath in fear for Luck.     And again,  I never felt that way last night.

 

Don't get me wrong,  I'm not defending last night's effort by the o-line.    Not at all.    It was not acceptable to me.

 

I just thought the line was worse and more overwhelmed a week ago than one night ago,  the stats not withstanding....

 

The last paragraph is for context. Another poster mentioned that Stephen Holder thought the protection was better last night, and it was implied that Louis instead of Thornton has something to do with that. My post that you originally responded to is a response to that idea, which I obviously disagree with.

 

Now, as for your new category, we generally call near misses hurries. There are a different sources for hurry stats, but I use PFF because I understand how they compile and wash their stats. The rush affects the QB enough that he either leaves the pocket, or he throws before he appears to be ready to throw. PFF says Luck was hurried 12 times against the Giants, and was hurried 14 times against the Steelers. (Just for reference, he was sacked once and hit 6 times against the Steelers, and sacked once and hit 8 times against the Giants. So that's at total of 21 pressures against the Giants in 48 dropbacks, and 21 pressures against the Steelers in 49 dropbacks.)

 

Overall, based on the numbers, you could say that Luck was pressured equally and hit close to the same amount in both of these last two games. 

 

I understand that the Steelers were more physical (I say they were dirty and in violation of the rules, and I don't put that on the line, personally). But that doesn't mean the protection was worse. What the defenders did once they beat the linemen isn't really pertinent.

 

I don't mean to be dismissive of how you feel, or your eyeball test, but the stats don't support the idea that the protection was any better against the Giants than it was against the Steelers. It was pretty much equal, and if anything, the protection was worse against the Giants, by a small margin. I don't see how those stats are misleading. 

 

Now, let's go back to the original context. Someone says 'the protection was better against the Giants, and Louis was at guard instead of Thornton,' as if to suggest that Louis' presence helped the protection. I don't think there's any factual basis to support that suggestion, and that's what my original point was.

 

That's before I mention that Louis singlehandledly gave up the only sack, 4 of the 8 QB hits, and another two hurries. One lineman accounted for 35% of the total QB pressures. Even if the protection was better -- and I don't agree that it was -- Louis was undoubtedly worse than Thornton. That's what the original point was.

[Superman]

 The O-Lines protection was better last nite. Few of the hits were meaningful.

 Bradshaw was bad in protection. Louis was better than Thorntons play man on man, but he and Harrison did not play well together.

 Harrison was confused pretty badly against Pittsburgh also.

 

Bradshaw wasn't bad in protection at all. He picked up several blitzes in very manly fashion. He was much better in protection than he was a week ago.

 

And Louis was most certainly NOT better than Thornton, in any respect. Nor did he play well with Harrison. Louis was flat out terrible. Thornton hasn't been outstanding himself, but there's no comparison to be made. 

 

I agree about Harrison. He's struggling with some of the finer points of playing center, and someone else -- why not the QB -- needs to take on more responsibility with the protections. By way of comparison, Shipley wasn't doing good pre-snap either, failing to adjust to pick up middle blitzes, etc. Either of them were going to struggle against Dick LeBeau in Blitzburgh.

[TKnight24]

@mchappell51: #colts Pagano: RG Hugh Thornton pulled from starting lineup. In house. Won't go into details. Get back Monday he'll be back at RG. @rtv6

As he should be. Louis needs to be cut seriously