Pagano doesn't commit to Shipley starting at C.

[Dustin]

Pagano still noncommittal about center position. Says Shipley is a center, but that Colts have several centers. #Colts

— Josh Wilson (@JoshWilsonSB)

October 3, 2014

[Superman]

I don't think anyone has any idea who we're starting at center. Pagano said earlier that Louis would move to LG and Thornton would be back at RG. Unless something has changed... So apparently it's just the center position, and it sounds like it's Shipley or Harrison.

[Derakynn]

I don't really get this. Did they have some problem with last weeks Oline? Because Louis was in there, that is what changed. Not Shipley. I could see them trying Holmes out, but if they are referring to Harrison I really just don't understand what their thinking is. Nothing against Harrison of course. 

[Mr.Debonair]

Maybe their worried about Shipley against the Ravens DL. Who knows

[Derakynn]

I guess that could make sense. The Ravens practiced against him all last year so they would know how to exploit him. Though I don't recall that ever really being a factor before, so I don't know why it would be now. 

[indy1888]

Stephen Holder from the Star thinks Harrison will start. He also says he was told that it is about Shipley's measureables and the matchups he would face. 

[TKnight24]

"Colts have Several C's"

No we don't. We have one who's lead us to the one of the highest offense's in the NFL. And two question marks. How is that "several centers"?

He talks like we're the Seahawks or 49ers when it comes to our depth

Not seeing the problem, why are we trying to change the offensive line?

Shipley can't play any other position except C people

[Danfish98]

Satele was consistently regarded as one of, if not the worst starting center in the league last year and we stuck with him.  Now we have a guy performing well and he's going to be benched?  Makes no sense.  They were stubborn with playing Shipley before he was traded too. At this point you have to start wondering if Shipley bullied Pagano growing up or something.  I'm certainly at a loss.

[Dr. Guildo]

I think keeping Shipley at center would be a smart move. Maybe we have a lot of them but only one can start & the last thing we need is to keep tinkering with the o-line that is light years ahead of where it was last year.

[The Lucky Neck Beard]

could this also be Shipley begging out thinking he is a liability against the Ravens?  This may be more of a mutual decision as opposed to a unilateral decision from above.

[Superman]

could this also be Shipley begging out thinking he is a liability against the Ravens?  This may be more of a mutual decision as opposed to a unilateral decision from above.

 

That's incredibly unlikely.

[IndyD4U]

I don't understand...But, then again, it isn't my responsibility to understand.

 

Gotta trust the staff's decision, whatever their reasoning may be 

[SubZero]

Im not at practices nor am I a coach, but this really is a baffling move. If they were going to have a new center change I'd think it would be Holmes but Harrison?? Especially with how well Shipley has been playing, moving him out of his natural position just doesnt seem to make sense.

Hopefully it works out but right now I am confused.

[throwing BBZ]

I think keeping Shipley at center would be a smart move. Maybe we have a lot of them but only one can start & the last thing we need is to keep tinkering with the o-line that is light years ahead of where it was last year.

 

 Yet it is wise to put ones best players on the field, so that makes your position incorrect.

 That Shipley looks better than Satele is a pitiful way to think long term.

[cbear]

The big question in my mind is what is up with Holmes?  

[Danfish98]

 Yet it is wise to put ones best players on the field, so that makes your position incorrect.

 That Shipley looks better than Satele is a pitiful way to think long term.

I agree with this statement in theory, but the best offensive lines get that way because of chemistry, something that comes with the same 5 guys starting.  That, combined with the fact that Shipley has been one of the top graded centers in the league this year makes this move very questionable to me.

[throwing BBZ]

Im not at practices nor am I a coach, but this really is a baffling move. If they were going to have a new center change I'd think it would be Holmes but Harrison?? Especially with how well Shipley has been playing, moving him out of his natural position just doesnt seem to make sense.

Hopefully it works out but right now I am confused.

 

 You have to be totally unaware of what Shipley is NOT getting done well and overvaluing his contribution at what he has been pretty decent at. JMO of course.

 We need better play at center and he has probably peaked given his physical limitations.

 It is like folks here can`t get we dumped him once and Ozzie and Baltimore didn`t want as a 2nd stringer either and We should not try to upgrade the position Just Because some Arm Chair Homers are glad he Ain`t Satele. Good grief, get it together!

[TKnight24]

The big question in my mind is what is up with Holmes?

Like I told another poster, Holmes job is to fill up Gatorade bottles

[beavis]

Satele was consistently regarded as one of, if not the worst starting center in the league last year and we stuck with him.  Now we have a guy performing well and he's going to be benched?  Makes no sense.  They were stubborn with playing Shipley before he was traded too. At this point you have to start wondering if Shipley bullied Pagano growing up or something.  I'm certainly at a loss.

You think Shipley bullied Pagano as a kid.  I think Holmes bullied Pagano after he got injured.  He went from being the starter to being a healthy scratch on gameday, and never even got a chance to deserve it.

[SubZero]

You have to be totally unaware of what Shipley is NOT getting done well and overvaluing his contribution at what he has been pretty decent at. JMO of course.

We need better play at center and he has probably peaked given his physical limitations.

It is like folks here can`t get we dumped him once and Ozzie and Baltimore didn`t want as a 2nd stringer either and We should not try to upgrade the position Just Because some Arm Chair Homers are glad he Ain`t Satele. Good grief, get it together!

Its not that he isnt Satele but right now he is the 3rd best rated center in the league. No one knows why the Colts dumped him the first time. The Ravens dumped him because they used him at guard which he wasn't good at, plus they have Osmele and Yanda at guard and they have been playing great football.

My whole thing is why would the Colts remove Shipley from his natural position (which again he is 3rd ranked) and the put an undrafted rookie rookie ahead of him.

Thats like the Colts thinking "man lets take Purifoy and give him first team reps and take Vontae and put him at nickel corner".

[HtownColt]

Was Shipley late to meetings or something? I don't get it unless Pagano is giving the job back to Holmes

[Superman]

Im not at practices nor am I a coach, but this really is a baffling move. If they were going to have a new center change I'd think it would be Holmes but Harrison?? Especially with how well Shipley has been playing, moving him out of his natural position just doesnt seem to make sense.

Hopefully it works out but right now I am confused.

 

I don't think Shipley has been playing that well, but it's hard to complain about his performance so far. I certainly don't think he's the future of our offensive line, and I don't have a problem with his spot being open to competition. I don't know what this latest shuffling is all about, and it makes me nervous as well. But I can understand why the staff isn't fully committed to Shipley.

[Superman]

Its not that he isnt Satele but right now he is the 3rd best rated center in the league. No one knows why the Colts dumped him the first time. The Ravens dumped him because they used him at guard which he wasn't good at, plus they have Osmele and Yanda at guard and they have been playing great football.

My whole thing is why would the Colts remove Shipley from his natural position (which again he is 3rd ranked) and the put an undrafted rookie rookie ahead of him.

Thats like the Colts thinking "man lets take Purifoy and give him first team reps and take Vontae and put him at nickel corner".

 

I don't think Shipley is the third best center in the league, despite what PFF says.

[SubZero]

I don't think Shipley has been playing that well, but it's hard to complain about his performance so far. I certainly don't think he's the future of our offensive line, and I don't have a problem with his spot being open to competition. I don't know what this latest shuffling is all about, and it makes me nervous as well. But I can understand why the staff isn't fully committed to Shipley.

I can see where you are thinking. Shipley is the 3rd ranked center though. I firmly believe Shipley is better than he really is because of how well the OL is gelling together. The Mewhort and Thornton shuffling is understandable (because they are injured, duh lol) but to shuffle the line that has been playing so well as a whole doesn't make sense.

[Valpo2004]

Like I told another poster, Holmes job is to fill up Gatorade bottles

 

How did he drop from being the starting center that was suppose to be healthy by week 1 to 3rd string center in that short of time?

 

I mean Shipley has done well so I get maybe they don't want to mess that up, but why put Harrison over Holmes.  We certainly didn't see any reason in the pre-season that would justify that. 

[SubZero]

I don't think Shipley is the third best center in the league, despite what PFF says.

The only sacks Luck has taken has been against Cherilus, Thornton, and Fleener. Shipley had some great holes he cleared against the Jags and Eagles. He has shown good ability to get the the next level. I have rewatched Philly, Jax, and Ten the best OL have probably been Costanzo first and Shipley second.

Not only PFF but Football Outsiders also has him rated actually second.

[Superman]

I can see where you are thinking. Shipley is the 3rd ranked center though. I firmly believe Shipley is better than he really is because of how well the OL is gelling together. The Mewhort and Thornton shuffling is understandable (because they are injured, duh lol) but to shuffle the line that has been playing so well as a whole doesn't make sense.

 

I understand that PFF has him rated as third best. I'm saying that we should keep PFF in proper perspective. They are not the be-all and end-all when it comes to player rankings. I appreciate what they do, but often disagree wildly with their grades. I'm not saying that I'm right and they're wrong, only that grades are always going to be subjective. Let's not promote PFF into something they're not. They're grades are not definitive.

 

And yes, I do think Shipley has benefited from guard play this year. And in spite of that, he's made mistakes, he's blown blocks, he's made poor protection calls, he doesn't get a lot of push in the run game (we don't necessarily need him to, as a center, but still), etc. And, all things considered, he's probably as good as he'll ever be. Despite the improvements that the line has made this year -- which I'm very encouraged by, personally -- Shipley is not and shouldn't be untouchable. 

[Buck Showalter]

Like I told another poster, Holmes job is to fill up Gatorade bottles

Is Holmes allowed to drink the Gatorade, if he's not sweatin' ???

[SubZero]

I understand that PFF has him rated as third best. I'm saying that we should keep PFF in proper perspective. They are not the be-all and end-all when it comes to player rankings. I appreciate what they do, but often disagree wildly with their grades. I'm not saying that I'm right and they're wrong, only that grades are always going to be subjective. Let's not promote PFF into something they're not. They're grades are not definitive.

And yes, I do think Shipley has benefited from guard play this year. And in spite of that, he's made mistakes, he's blown blocks, he's made poor protection calls, he doesn't get a lot of push in the run game (we don't necessarily need him to, as a center, but still), etc. And, all things considered, he's probably as good as he'll ever be. Despite the improvements that the line has made this year -- which I'm very encouraged by, personally -- Shipley is not and shouldn't be untouchable.

Not only that but Football Outsiders rated him 2nd. Im just saying from what those sights say and from what I've seen personally I feel like those ratings are fitting. Also from what I've rewatched he has been a firm solid piece on the OLine. Actually I think Mewhort has been improved thanks to playing between Shipley and Costanzo.

Also I'm confused on how Harrison is taking first team reps even over Holmes? And why would they also take Shipley and move him to guard where he struggled at last year? My whole thing is just why try to fix something that isn't broken.

[1959Colts]

I guess the only way to tell who is better, Harrison or Shipley...

Is to try putting Harrison in the game.

[a06cc]

This Shipley experiment reminds me of the Saturday one. A produce of who's around me. Saturday was truly hyped up because of Peyton's quick release. We had Glenn, Diem and Scott. Once those guys were gone we could do anything. Peyton was getting sacked more and we could run the ball. Ryan Lilja wasn't too bad either next to him.

[1959Colts]

The big question in my mind is what is up with Holmes?  

Holmes is a ghost

[Smurphy1]

This Shipley experiment reminds me of the Saturday one. A produce of who's around me. Saturday was truly hyped up because of Peyton's quick release. We had Glenn, Diem and Scott. Once those guys were gone we could do anything. Peyton was getting sacked more and we could run the ball. Ryan Lilja wasn't too bad either next to him.

I think you are missing some n't in there.

[Stephen]

Why is holmes even on roster. I mean you bench Shipley and start a harrison when holmes is healthy. Might as well trade him.

[pacolts56]

Maybe their worried about Shipley against the Ravens DL. Who knows

This makes some sense....its very likely that the Ravens have very good familiarity with Shipley and how to perhaps exploit a weakness he may have. I like Shipley and he looked very good last week....but we ain't talking about Mike Webster here.

 

This isn't intended to be a knock on Shipley...and we are talking about a Ravens defense that usually presents a pretty stout Front 7.

 

It may actually be a match-up decision...and a smart one.

[Coffeedrinker]

The only sacks Luck has taken has been against Cherilus, Thornton, and Fleener. Shipley had some great holes he cleared against the Jags and Eagles. He has shown good ability to get the the next level. I have rewatched Philly, Jax, and Ten the best OL have probably been Costanzo first and Shipley second.

Not only PFF but Football Outsiders also has him rated actually second.

He gave up a sack in the Denver game.

[southwest1]

Maybe their worried about Shipley against the Ravens DL. Who knows

This is the only reason I could possibly see for putting Holmes at Center because the Ravens know what Shipley's achilles heel is or his fundamental weaknesses are. But then again, if Shipley helped us beat the Titans, you don't screw up a system that appears to be working. If nothing else then to keep the guy there who knows what Baltimore's defensive line tendencies are. 

[Smurphy1]

This makes some sense....its very likely that the Ravens have very good familiarity with Shipley and how to perhaps exploit a weakness he may have. I like Shipley and he looked very good last week....but we ain't talking about Mike Webster here.

 

This isn't intended to be a knock on Shipley...and we are talking about a Ravens defense that usually presents a pretty stout Front 7.

 

It may actually be a match-up decision...and a smart one.

Except that doesn't happen in the NFL. You play your starters regardless of what team they were on before. You might mix personal packages to gain favorable matchups but I find it highly unlikely to believe that an NFL team benches their starting player because they are worried their opponent might know him better than most. The only reason you bench a player is when you think another player is better regardless of who you are playing.

[Coffeedrinker]

This Shipley experiment reminds me of the Saturday one. A produce of who's around me. Saturday was truly hyped up because of Peyton's quick release. We had Glenn, Diem and Scott. Once those guys were gone we could do anything. Peyton was getting sacked more and we could run the ball. Ryan Lilja wasn't too bad either next to him.

This analysis is spot on.  Well, other then missing that Saturday was one of the best centers in the NFL for a lot of years but that's just a detail and has no business in an analysis.

[Superman]

Not only that but Football Outsiders rated him 2nd. Im just saying from what those sights say and from what I've seen personally I feel like those ratings are fitting. Also from what I've rewatched he has been a firm solid piece on the OLine. Actually I think Mewhort has been improved thanks to playing between Shipley and Costanzo.

Also I'm confused on how Harrison is taking first team reps even over Holmes? And why would they also take Shipley and move him to guard where he struggled at last year? My whole thing is just why try to fix something that isn't broken.

 

I'm not trying to defend what's going on. As a matter of fact, I don't even know what's going on. No one does. Whatever shuffling is taking place is confusing, absolutely. 

 

All I'm saying is that I would rather talk about Shipley's play than his ratings from independent websites. And there are several reasons for that. First, we're only four games into the season, so the sample size is too small to really talk about. Second, the center position is probably the easiest position along the line, from a physical standpoint, so the impact that the center has on line play is also tied to presnap reads, protections, etc., and that's something that PFF and FO don't and can't grade. And in Shipley's case, that's one of the things that I think he's struggled with. 

 

Shipley at guard is another head scratcher, but Pagano said earlier this week that it's likely Louis at LG and Thornton at RG, so I doubt that happens. I don't think you take your smallest, least athletic lineman and move him to a more difficult position. That's why Shipley isn't a Raven anymore. We'll see what that's about come Sunday, but I highly doubt he plays guard.

 

Last thing, to the bolded, as you can tell, I don't think Shipley is the greatest center in the world. Again, not complaining about him, but I think the line play could be better, and I think the center play could be better, both pre-snap and during the play. So I'm not opposed to competition at center, and whether it's with Harrison or Holmes, or both, that competition should yield good results, regardless of who wins out. It's not trying to fix something that isn't broken, it's trying to be as good as you can be. And I'm not convinced that Shipley is the answer there.