Colts to sign/looking to sign Vontae Davis. Will NOT use franchise tag

[TKnight24]

@HolderStephen: As expected RT @JasonLaCanfora: Colts still working to sign CB Vontae Davis longterm, but will not apply the franchise tag

@JasonLaCanfora: Colts still working to sign CB Vontae Davis longterm, but will not apply the franchise tag if they don't strike a deal by 4pm tag deadline

I would've posted this in the Vontae Davis thread but didn't know if some of you would miss out on it. But mods if you want to merge, do your thing

[Gavin]

I have a bad feeling about them being able to get a deal done this late.............I hope Im wrong

[pgt_rob]

Get it done right naow.

[csmopar]

I have a bad feeling about them being able to get a deal done this late.............I hope Im wrong

as do I, I think Vontae is wanting too much money, no evidence to back that up, but there's obviously something they can't agree on.

[Dark Superman]

We won't tag anyone..

I'm really craving the need of a huge play making safety..

Let's get Byrd.. I don't care how much he cost. Let's front load his contract.

[ColtsUrUs]

We won't tag anyone..

I'm really craving the need of a huge play making safety..

Let's get Byrd.. I don't care how much he cost. Let's front load his contract.

[TKnight24]

We won't tag anyone..

I'm really craving the need of a huge play making safety..

Let's get Byrd.. I don't care how much he cost. Let's front load his contract.

So let's say we re-sign Vontae then sign Byrd. Then what? That's probably 85% of our money gone cause Byrd is gonna cost. We're STILL in bad shape cause we have NO PASS RUSH

Everything starts up front. If we get a better pass rush, we won't have to worry about pur secondary getting gashed for huge plays

[Dark Superman]

So let's say we re-sign Vontae then sign Byrd. Then what? That's probably 85% of our money gone cause Byrd is gonna cost. We're STILL in bad shape cause we have NO PASS RUSH

Everything starts up front. If we get a better pass rush, we won't have to worry about pur secondary getting gashed for huge plays

Couldn't agree more..

But here's to a small hope that we are able to address both areas..

[Dark Superman]

Yes! Yes! Yes!

And let's sign Worilds too!

[Mitch]

So let's say we re-sign Vontae then sign Byrd. Then what? That's probably 85% of our money gone cause Byrd is gonna cost. We're STILL in bad shape cause we have NO PASS RUSH

Everything starts up front. If we get a better pass rush, we won't have to worry about pur secondary getting gashed for huge plays

We have about 40 million in cap space. I'd say with signing Byrd and Vontae, we'd still have about 50% or even a little more of our money to work with. Granted I know Grigson he isn't going to spend it all while looking towards future contracts but this still gives us a ton of money to get a couple more players. With regard to pass rush, I don't see an OLB coming anytime soon so it'd have to be on the line or a ILB. I think Pags and co want to give Bjoern some more time and hopefully a full healthy year before we go invest a ton of money in another OLB. 

 

Let me say, I agree with you. Good pass rush can make an average secondary look great and at the same time, a bad pass rush can make a great secondary look bad. At the same time though, I think Byrd is the best player overall in FA this year. He's like Earl Thomas, yet he's actually going to be available because the bills can never retain talent. I say spend whatever it takes and get him on our team. Our secondary would be complete for years to come with Landry/Byrd/Vontae all having long term deals. I think even with signing Vontae/Byrd we could easily still get some help in the trenches, on both sides of the ball.

 

Out of curiosity, which player(s) do you want out of FA the most?

[Gavin]

your pass rush is a very small part of passing downs in reality, If you have 2 great pass rushers  (example Freeney and Mathis) there combined highest sack total for 1 year is 26.5 in 2004. Also take into account the numbers of pressures even great pass rushers get.....Not many when you compare that to the numbers of passes that are thrown, We were still 28th in the league in passing yards given up and 27th in passing yards per play given up in 2004, Having good Corners is vital to your defense regardless of sack totals AND pressures because the pressures and sacks wont get there over the course of 5-6-700 passes against you, you cant trot out on the field with Greg Toler and Darius Butler with Cassius Vaughn in the slot and expect to compete against the Tom Bradys of the NFL no matter how many pass rushers you throw out there, a pass rush is very avoidable in many circumstances.....Two good Corners are not....Not in todays NFL

[jskinnz]

Fins just signed Grimes to a 4 year, $32 million with $16million in guarantees.  Should be a decent barometer for Davis.  And it seems reasonable.

[MarvinTheGreat88]

Davis is gonna cost us some $$$, but will be worth it. He's a Top 10 CB and is young and impacts the D. Plus we invested a 2nd-round pick for him, so we need to keep him around. Otherwise our secondary takes a big hit. Lock him up Grigs

[GoColts8818]

Fins just signed Grimes to a 4 year, $32 million with $16million in guarantees.  Should be a decent barometer for Davis.  And it seems reasonable.

thats roughly 8 million a year. With him off the market there is no incentative for Davis to rush into a deal before free agency starts unless the Colts give him a deal he just can't say no too. Brace yourself Colts fans if someone else comes in and way over pays for him Davis might walk.

[dw49]

I have a bad feeling about them being able to get a deal done this late.............I hope Im wrong

 

 

Yeah .. you're gonna be wrong on this one. He'll never hit the open market as the Colts need him , have cap room and he likes it here. So look for a deal that averages between 8-9 mill per with about 17 mill. guaranteed.

[Johnny Bui]

Franchise tag is around 11 million.  Thats way more than what he's worth.  I say give him close to what Grimes got from the fins.  Then use salary to sure up the DLine and a Guard/center.  Cut Satele for cap room.  Draft a (G,C,WR,CB,DL)  Alex Mack Should really consider coming to Indy.  I have no idea what to do with our Safety (FS) position.  I don't want to pay big for Byrd.

[C0LT5]

Get it done right naow.

 

Maybe Vontae wants to see what is offered to him by other teams. This could be good or bad for us depending on the offers he gets.

[Gavin]

  

Yeah .. you're gonna be wrong on this one. He'll never hit the open market as the Colts need him , have cap room and he likes it here. So look for a deal that averages between 8-9 mill per with about 17 mill. guaranteed.

I think thats about right looking at the Spotrac #s for Corners.....I think 8 mill per year 4 year deal with 14-16 mill guaranteed

[jskinnz]

thats roughly 8 million a year. With him off the market there is no incentative for Davis to rush into a deal before free agency starts unless the Colts give him a deal he just can't say no too. Brace yourself Colts fans if someone else comes in and way over pays for him Davis might walk.

 

I was looking more at the guaranteed money as being reasonable. 

 

But you are right - there is much to chance when a player hits the open market.  Nothing assured about Davis coming back to Indy.

[lollygagger8]

That 16M guarantee for Grimes is just crazy to me. I hope Grigs structures Vontae's with more incentives. 

[ProblChld32]

I just truly hope they can get it done.

[Superman]

That 16M guarantee for Grimes is just crazy to me. I hope Grigs structures Vontae's with more incentives.

If it's mostly signing bonus then yeah. But I'm curious what the structure is.

[Dustin]

>Jason La Confora

>credible

Pick one. And only one.

I think I'll wait til 4:01 until I believe this.

[Stoney]

So let's say we re-sign Vontae then sign Byrd. Then what? That's probably 85% of our money gone cause Byrd is gonna cost. We're STILL in bad shape cause we have NO PASS RUSH

Everything starts up front. If we get a better pass rush, we won't have to worry about pur secondary getting gashed for huge plays

so what happens when we blow all of our money on big guys up front and then have crappy safety play? Big time players cost big time money..thats just the way it goes. so tell me then. how should we go about spending our money on the D-line then? there is no cant miss nose tackle on the market, plus chap deserves more time, we just signed RJF last year, cory redding still has a year, We used our first pick on Werner last year, We signed Walden in F/A. our Front 7 is loaded with mediocre players, but apparently thats the way its gotta be cuz everyone is always too afraid to spend some cash on a big time proven player. So yeah lets spend all of our money on all the Erik Waldens in the world and Greg Tolers. i would rather have 1 gamechanging player that cost 12 Mil a year to keep as opposed to 3 mediocre players that cost 4 mil a year to keep.

[1959Colts]

so what happens when we blow all of our money on big guys up front and then have crappy safety play? Big time players cost big time money..thats just the way it goes. so tell me then. how should we go about spending our money on the D-line then? there is no cant miss nose tackle on the market, plus chap deserves more time, we just signed RJF last year, cory redding still has a year, We used our first pick on Werner last year, We signed Walden in F/A. our Front 7 is loaded with mediocre players, but apparently thats the way its gotta be cuz everyone is always too afraid to spend some cash on a big time proven player. So yeah lets spend all of our money on all the Erik Waldens in the world and Greg Tolers. i would rather have 1 gamechanging player that cost 12 Mil a year to keep as opposed to 3 mediocre players that cost 4 mil a year to keep.

 

You are right.

Mediocre sums up those players mentioned.

[TKnight24]

so what happens when we blow all of our money on big guys up front and then have crappy safety play? Big time players cost big time money..thats just the way it goes. so tell me then. how should we go about spending our money on the D-line then? there is no cant miss nose tackle on the market, plus chap deserves more time, we just signed RJF last year, cory redding still has a year, We used our first pick on Werner last year, We signed Walden in F/A. our Front 7 is loaded with mediocre players, but apparently thats the way its gotta be cuz everyone is always too afraid to spend some cash on a big time proven player. So yeah lets spend all of our money on all the Erik Waldens in the world and Greg Tolers. i would rather have 1 gamechanging player that cost 12 Mil a year to keep as opposed to 3 mediocre players that cost 4 mil a year to keep.

What good is a proven safety if he's in coverage for 6-8 seconds EVERY pass play cause the pass rush can't there?

Everything starts up front! There is no argument. Having an great secondary means NOTHING with no pass rush. Why would you want your DB's in coverage for decades?

Or another example, crossing routes. Teams KILLED us with those. How would a safety change that?

[Gavin]

What good is a proven safety if he's in coverage for 6-8 seconds EVERY pass play cause the pass rush can't there?

Everything starts up front! There is no argument. Having an great secondary means NOTHING with no pass rush. Why would you want your DB's in coverage for decades?

Or another example, crossing routes. Teams KILLED us with those. How would a safety change that?

Those crossing routes are on the ILB's to read AND Safeties, A good example of this is the Broncos second posession of the SB.....there 2nd play of that drive, Thomas came across Peytons vision on a crossing route and Cam Chancellor came up and layed a huge hit on Thomas for just 3 yards 

[Colts_Fan12]

so what happens when we blow all of our money on big guys up front and then have crappy safety play? Big time players cost big time money..thats just the way it goes. so tell me then. how should we go about spending our money on the D-line then? there is no cant miss nose tackle on the market, plus chap deserves more time, we just signed RJF last year, cory redding still has a year, We used our first pick on Werner last year, We signed Walden in F/A. our Front 7 is loaded with mediocre players, but apparently thats the way its gotta be cuz everyone is always too afraid to spend some cash on a big time proven player. So yeah lets spend all of our money on all the Erik Waldens in the world and Greg Tolers. i would rather have 1 gamechanging player that cost 12 Mil a year to keep as opposed to 3 mediocre players that cost 4 mil a year to keep.

This is so true our S pair is no joke we need to fix it

[TKnight24]

Those crossing routes are on the ILB's to read AND Safeties

And the moment Byrd bites on that crossing route BAM....... QB throws it deep over the top and Greg Toler gets burnt for a 40+ yard gain.

Fix the pass rush, everything else will fall into place

[Colts_Fan12]

What good is a proven safety if he's in coverage for 6-8 seconds EVERY pass play cause the pass rush can't there?

Everything starts up front! There is no argument. Having an great secondary means NOTHING with no pass rush. Why would you want your DB's in coverage for decades?

Or another example, crossing routes. Teams KILLED us with those. How would a safety change that?

But I think your missing what he is saying we have already put money and players into the front 7. Some are young others are from FA last year. We already have Werner Walden and Mathis along with Chap Hughes RJF and Redding. We can draft an ILB and DE to add to those guys but we need to address the secondary cause Toler has always been injury prone and we have 2 SS and no FS.

[TKnight24]

But I think your missing what he is saying we have already put money and players into the front 7. Some are young others are from FA last year. We already have Werner Walden and Mathis along with Chap Hughes RJF and Redding. We can draft an ILB and DE to add to those guys but we need to address the secondary cause Toler has always been injury prone and we have to SS.

I get that. But what I'm saying is the money in the front 7 obviously isn't working when the Colts made Case Keenum & Ryan Fitzpatrick look like Brady & Manning this season. We did better in round 2 of both those games but by then, neither of those teams had much to play for

Granted we had injuries to Hicks, Sidbury, & other pass rushers so maybe our pass rush isn't that bad. Only player in the secondary I believe should be gone is Bethea

[Gavin]

And the moment Byrd bites on that crossing route BAM....... QB throws it deep over the top and Greg Toler gets burnt for a 40+ yard gain.

Fix the pass rush, everything else will fall into place

Chancellor didn't bite and your pass rush is not going to get there on those short crossing routes......thats why they are short. All the Safety is doing on the play is waiting for the play to develop 

[Colts_Fan12]

I get that. But what I'm saying is the money in the front 7 obviously isn't working when the Colts made Case Keenum & Ryan Fitzpatrick look like Brady & Manning this season. We did better in round 2 of both those games but by then, neither of those teams had much to play for

Granted we had injuries to Hicks, Sidbury, & other pass rushers so maybe our pass rush isn't that bad. Only player in the secondary I believe should be gone is Bethea

I wouldn't mind another OLB to help out but it's just not likely after Grigs put money and draft picks into it last year. However I do want to get a good 3-4 DE in the draft early to help get a pass rush from that spot. Also think RJF will be ok he was doin good till he got hurt. that's why I don't see why we shouldn't spend money on the secondary in FA

The reason I add Toler is cause he isn't very reliable never has been. He plays good when healthy but problem is he's hurt more then he is healthy

[TKnight24]

Chancellor didn't bite and your pass rush is not going to get there on those short crossing routes......thats why they are short. All the Safety is doing on the play is waiting for the play to develop

You can't use Chancellor as an example cause they have a complete defense. There's times when their pass rush gets sacks on a 3-5 step drop for a QB. Then there's times where their secondary presses the WR's and holds coverage for 5-6 seconds for the pass rush to get there.

Their defense compliments each other. Our defense is, well I don't even know how to describe ours

[Gavin]

You can't use Chancellor as an example cause they have a complete defense. There's times when their pass rush gets sacks on a 3-5 step drop for a QB. Then there's times where their secondary presses the WR's and holds coverage for 5-6 seconds for the pass rush to get there.

Their defense compliments each other. Our defense is, well I don't even know how to describe ours

regardless thats how a Safety is to react on those crossing routes, Come up and make the play

[Iancolts]

Well grimes is now not a FA anymore so we need to either resign Vontae or if in any weird case he walks we need to snatch up Sam Shields! Or even the Verner

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Everything starts up front. If we get a better pass rush, we won't have to worry about pur secondary getting gashed for huge plays

 

OOOOOOO you're in trouble now Mister!!!

 

Speaking the truth vis-a-vis the secondary and the pass rush is a big no-no.

[coltsfanatic24]

Vontae is 5 years younger then Grimes and just as good, i think he'll sign close to 5 year 42 mil with more money guaranteed then Grimes. He's worth it and not many CB's are as fast or physical as he is in press coverage. Sherman, Revis, and Haden are about the only guys comparable with his skill set.

[Balzer40]

So let's say we re-sign Vontae then sign Byrd. Then what? That's probably 85% of our money gone cause Byrd is gonna cost. We're STILL in bad shape cause we have NO PASS RUSH

Everything starts up front. If we get a better pass rush, we won't have to worry about pur secondary getting gashed for huge plays

 

 

 

I wish more fans understood this.

[Stoney]

What good is a proven safety if he's in coverage for 6-8 seconds EVERY pass play cause the pass rush can't there?

Everything starts up front! There is no argument. Having an great secondary means NOTHING with no pass rush. Why would you want your DB's in coverage for decades?

Or another example, crossing routes. Teams KILLED us with those. How would a safety change that?