Andrew Luck is the best QB in the NFL?

[Le Neon]

He hasn't even really separated himself from great young qbs yet. Luck has a tremendous future ahead of him but let's not get ridiculous. You'd get an arguement from many non Colts fans saying he's better then Wilson or Kaepernick, Foles, Newton. Hell, they're probably Redskins homers who still think Griffen will obliterate them all next season.

Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Manning are still in a whole other zip code, for now.

[rsrobinson]

It is true. Luck does have more passing yards as a result of almost 400 more career passing attempts, which is important if you're running a fantasy football team, but is a measure of volume rather than quality or efficiency. If passing attempts and yards were the measure of greatness Matthew Stafford would be a perennial All-Pro. By virtually every stat used to measure QB efficiency Wilson has not only been better than Luck, but significantly better. And he's done this while playing in the toughest division in the NFL rather than the weakest and while regularly facing much tougher defenses.

And you want to talk about playoffs? Playoffs? /Jim Mora voice

Alright let's talk about playoffs:

Russell Wilson: 4-1 record, 1 Super Bowl win, 63.08% comp, 6 TD, 1 INT, 102.0 QB rating, 8.43 Y/A

Andrew Luck: 1-2 record, 55.00% comp, 6 TD, 8 INT, 70.0 QB rating, 7.59 Y/A

Wilson's career playoff numbers are actually slightly better than his regular season numbers while Luck's are markedly worse. If Wilson's playoff performance has been the definition of pedestrian then Luck has been walking backwards against traffic.

Luck has the talent to develop into one of the top QBs in the league but he's not close to that yet and Wilson has been better so far by virtually every stat used to measure quarterback performance.

lol, Wilson was the definition of pedestrian in the playoffs, and he rarely had to play from behind.

Virtually every stat? That is not even close to being true.

It is true. Luck does have more passing yards as a result of almost 400 more career passing attempts, which is important if you're running a fantasy football team, but is a measure of volume rather than quality or efficiency. If passing attempts and yards were the measure of greatness Matthew Stafford would be a perennial All-Pro. By virtually every stat used to measure QB efficiency Wilson has not only been better than Luck, but significantly better. And he's done this while playing in the toughest division in the NFL rather than the weakest and while regularly facing much tougher defenses.

And you want to talk about playoffs? Playoffs? /Jim Mora voice

Alright let's talk about playoffs:

Russell Wilson: 4-1 record, 1 Super Bowl win, 63.08% comp, 6 TD, 1 INT, 102.0 QB rating, 8.43 Y/A

Andrew Luck: 1-2 record, 55.00% comp, 6 TD, 8 INT, 70.0 QB rating, 7.59 Y/A

Wilson's career playoff numbers are actually slightly better than his regular season numbers while Luck's are markedly worse. Not only that, he just outplayed Peyton Manning in the Super Bowl. If Wilson's playoff performance has been the definition of pedestrian then Luck has been walking backwards against traffic.

Luck has the talent to develop into one of the top QBs in the league but he's not close to that yet and Wilson has been better so far by virtually every stat used to measure quarterback performance.

[Beauregarde]

Don't care what anybody says Luck is the best young QB. Period.

He is going to be great but their teams would not trade Cam Newton, Wilson or Kapernik for him. There are people in Miami who think their QB, although a little behind right now, will eventually leave Luck way behind. I am not saying that I agree with any of this but to just say "Luck is the bet young QB. Period." is very wrong. You just say that he is a great young QB and leave it at that.

[Carl Dzienkiewicz]

Can't tell if serious.....

meant brady-------results count not fantasies

[jvan1973]

meant brady-------results count not fantasies

then why is rivers on your terrible list?

[Balzer40]

then why is rivers on your terrible list?

I keep telling people to consider the source when it comes to anything he posts. Easily some of the worst on this forum.

[AntonMcG]

It is true. Luck does have more passing yards as a result of almost 400 more career passing attempts, which is important if you're running a fantasy football team, but is a measure of volume rather than quality or efficiency. If passing attempts and yards were the measure of greatness Matthew Stafford would be a perennial All-Pro. By virtually every stat used to measure QB efficiency Wilson has not only been better than Luck, but significantly better. And he's done this while playing in the toughest division in the NFL rather than the weakest and while regularly facing much tougher defenses.

And you want to talk about playoffs? Playoffs? /Jim Mora voice

Alright let's talk about playoffs:

Russell Wilson: 4-1 record, 1 Super Bowl win, 63.08% comp, 6 TD, 1 INT, 102.0 QB rating, 8.43 Y/A

Andrew Luck: 1-2 record, 55.00% comp, 6 TD, 8 INT, 70.0 QB rating, 7.59 Y/A

Wilson's career playoff numbers are actually slightly better than his regular season numbers while Luck's are markedly worse. Not only that, he just outplayed Peyton Manning in the Super Bowl. If Wilson's playoff performance has been the definition of pedestrian then Luck has been walking backwards against traffic.

Luck has the talent to develop into one of the top QBs in the league but he's not close to that yet and Wilson has been better so far by virtually every stat used to measure quarterback performance.

 

lol, you are either completely clueless or intentionally obtuse.

 

Do you understand the very different system's both QB's play in? Do you understand the concept running games complimenting passing efficiency? Teams stacking the box rather than playing two deep safeties? Having to play from behind thus throw more? Being able to rely on a defense rather than force drives downfield?

 

Wilson is a game manager, and a very good one considering he is in his second year, but a QB asked to throw 15-20 times, many of which are dump-offs, and off play-action will always have very good 'efficiency' stats. The Colts win or lose on Luck's arm. Continue to spout your subjective stats and I will continue to watch the games and understand what I am talking about.

 

I would take Newton and RG3 over Wilson as well. Two more QB's that are asked to do a lot more than Wilson and have delivered.

[AntonMcG]

It is true. Luck does have more passing yards as a result of almost 400 more career passing attempts, which is important if you're running a fantasy football team, but is a measure of volume rather than quality or efficiency. If passing attempts and yards were the measure of greatness Matthew Stafford would be a perennial All-Pro. By virtually every stat used to measure QB efficiency Wilson has not only been better than Luck, but significantly better. And he's done this while playing in the toughest division in the NFL rather than the weakest and while regularly facing much tougher defenses.

And you want to talk about playoffs? Playoffs? /Jim Mora voice

Alright let's talk about playoffs:

Russell Wilson: 4-1 record, 1 Super Bowl win, 63.08% comp, 6 TD, 1 INT, 102.0 QB rating, 8.43 Y/A

Andrew Luck: 1-2 record, 55.00% comp, 6 TD, 8 INT, 70.0 QB rating, 7.59 Y/A

Wilson's career playoff numbers are actually slightly better than his regular season numbers while Luck's are markedly worse. Not only that, he just outplayed Peyton Manning in the Super Bowl. If Wilson's playoff performance has been the definition of pedestrian then Luck has been walking backwards against traffic.

Luck has the talent to develop into one of the top QBs in the league but he's not close to that yet and Wilson has been better so far by virtually every stat used to measure quarterback performance.

 

No he hasn't, just the ones you choose to reference...

 

QBR Regular Season

 

9 Andrew Luck, IND 42.8 21.2 -21.4 12.6 55.3 720 86.6 26.8 62.0

 

13 Russell Wilson, SEA 62.6 11.6 -28.1 0.3 46.3 606 67.2 16.9

58.9

 

 

QBR Post Season

 

 

 5 Andrew Luck, IND 8.5 1.8 -1.5 0.0 8.7 98 15.0 6.8 71.8 

  

8 Russell Wilson, SEA 10.9 -0.5 -4.0 -0.7 5.8 97 9.2 1.1 53.4

[Beauregarde]

lol, you are either completely clueless or intentionally obtuse.

 

Do you understand the very different system's both QB's play in? Do you understand the concept running games complimenting passing efficiency? Teams stacking the box rather than playing two deep safeties? Having to play from behind thus throw more? Being able to rely on a defense rather than force drives downfield?

 

Wilson is a game manager, and a very good one considering he is in his second year, but a QB asked to throw 15-20 times, many of which are dump-offs, and off play-action will always have very good 'efficiency' stats. The Colts win or lose on Luck's arm. Continue to spout your subjective stats and I will continue to watch the games and understand what I am talking about.

 

I would take Newton and RG3 over Wilson as well. Two more QB's that are asked to do a lot more than Wilson and have delivered.

I think you lost your credibility when you want to take RG3 over Wilson. Newton, I can agree with but I take Newton and Wilson way ahead of Luck right now. That could change quickly for some of the reasons you mention. Or, if the Colts don't get a better supporting cast around him, this may be what you see for years and years.

[Coltsman1788]

Luck still has a lot of learning and growing to do.  He isn't the best QB in the league right now, and I don't even know about top 5 right now.  Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Peyton (not in that order), and then the 5th spot is a tossup between a lot of guys.  He's certainly on his way to being one of, if not the, best QB in the league, but he isn't quite there yet.

This...people saying Luck is the best QB in the league are crazy.   Statistically he is only middle of the road.  But he has some very nice intangibles and a knack for winning games so people esteem him higher than his stats dictate.  Still not among the elite...yet...could be in time as he learns  and matures.

[Beauregarde]

Wrong.

Right!!

[dw49]

 

No he hasn't, just the ones you choose to reference...

 

QBR Regular Season

 

9 Andrew Luck, IND 42.8 21.2 -21.4 12.6 55.3 720 86.6 26.8 62.0

 

13 Russell Wilson, SEA 62.6 11.6 -28.1 0.3 46.3 606 67.2 16.9

58.9

 

 

QBR Post Season

 

 

 5 Andrew Luck, IND 8.5 1.8 -1.5 0.0 8.7 98 15.0 6.8 71.8 

  

8 Russell Wilson, SEA 10.9 -0.5 -4.0 -0.7 5.8 97 9.2 1.1 53.4

 

 

 

Are you sorry you chose to banter with some of these * ? I wouldn't even wet my toes into this thread because they are truly *s. 

 

1st one is the i word and second one is the m word.

[dw49]

This...people saying Luck is the best QB in the league are crazy.   Statistically he is only middle of the road.  But he has some very nice intangibles and a knack for winning games so people esteem him higher than his stats dictate.  Still not among the elite...yet...could be in time as he learns  and matures.

 

 

Yeah ... your right ...22 wins with that tissue paper O line and injury ridden crappy roster . Keep looking at them stats ...

[lennymoore24]

I think you're smoking weed. I love Andrew and hope he gets us to the top and he will become an elite QB.  But to say that right now is like saying TY Hilton is the best receiver in the NFL.

[Jules]

He's my favorite QB in the league that's all I can say.......

 

Although it will be more important for the Colts to hopefully again someday have the best team then just the best QB.

[braveheartcolt]

This...people saying Luck is the best QB in the league are crazy. Statistically he is only middle of the road. But he has some very nice intangibles and a knack for winning games so people esteem him higher than his stats dictate. Still not among the elite...yet...could be in time as he learns and matures.

Call me crazy, but a 'knack for winning games' is by far the most important measure around.

[GoColts8818]

I don't think he's the best QB in the NFL right.  Sorry despite the Super Bowl loss Peyton Manning just had maybe the greatest single season any QB has ever had.  I do think Luck is the best young QB in the NFL right now. 

[AntonMcG]

I think you lost your credibility when you want to take RG3 over Wilson. Newton, I can agree with but I take Newton and Wilson way ahead of Luck right now. That could change quickly for some of the reasons you mention. Or, if the Colts don't get a better supporting cast around him, this may be what you see for years and years.

 

I lose no credibility. RG3 is a better football player than Wilson.

[AntonMcG]

I think you lost your credibility when you want to take RG3 over Wilson. Newton, I can agree with but I take Newton and Wilson way ahead of Luck right now. That could change quickly for some of the reasons you mention. Or, if the Colts don't get a better supporting cast around him, this may be what you see for years and years.

 

You do that because you either do not watch football, or don't understand it. There is an argument for taking Newton, there is none of Wilson.

[Beauregarde]

I lose no credibility. RG3 is a better football player than Wilson.

I agree with that but he has not shown that he can stay on the field and Wilson has done that and he has performed very well.. I think you greatly underestimate Wilson.

[sweetsurrender]

Call me crazy, but a 'knack for winning games' is by far the most important measure around.

Wilson has more wins in the regular season and post-season of any of the young Qbs and 10 comebacks including two in the playoffs and now a ring. 

[BrentMc11]

I agree with that but he has not shown that he can stay on the field and Wilson has done that and he has performed very well.. I think you greatly underestimate Wilson.

I think him (Wilson) being on the field more has to do with his perfection of the baseball slide (Great ball player)  RG3 still cannot slide....  Andrew can slide correctly, but goes head first too much....

 

[AntonMcG]

I agree with that but he has not shown that he can stay on the field and Wilson has done that and he has performed very well.. I think you greatly underestimate Wilson.

 

I don't, he is a very good game managers... Newton, Luck and RG3 are game changers.

 

Wilson is perfect for what the Seahawks need right now, he plays mistake free football without ever having to do too much. I am not saying he can't be more... but that is what he is right now. Then again, that's what Tom Brady was when he won his first Super Bowl,  and look how that turned out.

[Gavin]

I don't, he is a very good game managers... Newton, Luck and RG3 are game changers.

 

Wilson is perfect for what the Seahawks need right now, he plays mistake free football without ever having to do too much. I am not saying he can't be more... but that is what he is right now. Then again, that's what Tom Brady was when he won his first Super Bowl,  and look how that turned out.

Wilson is a game changer to...Not to mention he remains more calm under pressure then any of the three QB's above, He dont get to low or to high...Thats what sets him apart......Not any numerical value.....not any throws he makes on the field....because he can make them all...Just because Pete Carrol and the rest of the organization wants a balanced approach where no one player has to carry the load(Carrol said that in post SB interview) dont make Wilson a lesser QB. As to the three QB's above you can see when they make a mistake that they let it get to them at least for a time

[dudeski]

I lose no credibility. RG3 is a better football player than Wilson.

not even close. Wilson is better

[jameszeigler834]

Russell Wilson is better than that pile of crap RG3 not even close.

[braveheartcolt]

Wilson has more wins in the regular season and post-season of any of the young Qbs and 10 comebacks including two in the playoffs and now a ring.

Read my post again. Not what I was inferring.

[IamSAR]

It is true. Luck does have more passing yards as a result of almost 400 more career passing attempts, which is important if you're running a fantasy football team, but is a measure of volume rather than quality or efficiency. If passing attempts and yards were the measure of greatness Matthew Stafford would be a perennial All-Pro. By virtually every stat used to measure QB efficiency Wilson has not only been better than Luck, but significantly better. And he's done this while playing in the toughest division in the NFL rather than the weakest and while regularly facing much tougher defenses.

And you want to talk about playoffs? Playoffs? /Jim Mora voice

Alright let's talk about playoffs:

Russell Wilson: 4-1 record, 1 Super Bowl win, 63.08% comp, 6 TD, 1 INT, 102.0 QB rating, 8.43 Y/A

Andrew Luck: 1-2 record, 55.00% comp, 6 TD, 8 INT, 70.0 QB rating, 7.59 Y/A

Wilson's career playoff numbers are actually slightly better than his regular season numbers while Luck's are markedly worse. Not only that, he just outplayed Peyton Manning in the Super Bowl. If Wilson's playoff performance has been the definition of pedestrian then Luck has been walking backwards against traffic.

Luck has the talent to develop into one of the top QBs in the league but he's not close to that yet and Wilson has been better so far by virtually every stat used to measure quarterback performance.

You also have to factor in what they're asking Wilson to do, his workload is light compared to Luck's. I think they were last or second to last in pass attempts for the season? I've watched games where that seahawks team has won in spite of Wilson having an off game, which is a good thing. I would like to know what Wilson's completion percentage is when they use play action, it has to be if not highest in the league, then at least top 5. QB win-loss records is an annoying stat, Seahawks won games not because elite QB talent, but balance. Special teams and defense gives Wilson great starting field position.

[AntonMcG]

not even close. Wilson is better

 

You're correct in one instance, it's not close.

 

RG3 in much more talented.

 

So many people here try to attribute team success to QB ability. They are not mutually exclusive, but the correlation isn't nearly as pronounced as most fans make it out to be.

[IamSAR]

You're correct in one instance, it's not close.

 

RG3 in much more talented.

 

So many people here try to attribute team success to QB ability. They are not mutually exclusive, but the correlation isn't nearly as pronounced as most fans make it out to be.

Seahawks used play action on at least 30% of Wilson's passes, and half of his TD's came on play action. He had a 120 passer rating when using play action...TEAM GAME!!

[sweetsurrender]

Read my post again. Not what I was inferring.

I re-read it and would ask you to clarify. You said, "Call me crazy, but a 'knack for winning games' is by far the most important measure around."

 

I inferred that you meant winning trumps stats and such. 

[Yoshinator]

R

 

You're correct in one instance, it's not close.

 

RG3 in much more talented.

 

So many people here try to attribute team success to QB ability. They are not mutually exclusive, but the correlation isn't nearly as pronounced as most fans make it out to be.

RGIII may of been better his rookie year, but he's done now. Even if he recovers fully from his injury, he's going to have that fear of re-injuring it which will take away his run game. Not only that, his little read option game has been figured out by NFL defenses. When they put pressure on RGIII and have decent coverage. he folds like a cheap tent. He'll have to change his playing style completely or it'll keep being a repeat of last year.

[Beauregarde]

R

 

RGIII may of been better his rookie year, but he's done now. Even if he recovers fully from his injury, he's going to have that fear of re-injuring it which will take away his run game. Not only that, his little read option game has been figured out by NFL defenses. When they put pressure on RGIII and have decent coverage. he folds like a cheap tent. He'll have to change his playing style completely or it'll keep being a repeat of last year.

I think RGIII will have a big season this year. A new coach will be a big help. He is fully recovered from his injury and he doesn't play with fear. Yes, he is going to pass more and run less.

[rsrobinson]

You also have to factor in what they're asking Wilson to do, his workload is light compared to Luck's. I think they were last or second to last in pass attempts for the season? I've watched games where that seahawks team has won in spite of Wilson having an off game, which is a good thing. I would like to know what Wilson's completion percentage is when they use play action, it has to be if not highest in the league, then at least top 5. QB win-loss records is an annoying stat, Seahawks won games not because elite QB talent, but balance. Special teams and defense gives Wilson great starting field position.

Some people here seem unable to get past a fantasy football mentality when judging QBs. If they aren't throwing the ball 35-40 times a game for 300+ yards that means they are mediocre and/or a game manager. It's nonsense.

Pete Carroll's philosophy is relatively simple. He believes if you do these three things you will win almost every time:

1. Outhit the other team on every play.

2. Create explosive plays on offense while limiting them on defense.

3. Win the turnover battle.

Everything the Seahawks do is geared around accomplishing those three things. On offense that means a power running game that wears down defenses and establishes physical dominance. It also means a passing attack that heavily utilizes the play action pass and stretches the field with three or four deep shots per game. Although it emphasizes limiting turnovers it is no dink and dunk offense and utilizes the deep pass as effectively as any team on the league.

Carroll doesn't give a damn for fantasy football stats. He doesn't want his QB to throw more than about 25 passes in a game because that means the Seahawks are playing the game on their terms. If Luck was the Seahawks QB he would also be passing about 20-25 times a game for about 200 yards.

Carroll wants a balanced offensive attack that doesn't rely totally on the the QB to make it work and limits turnovers. He sees the QB position as the equivalent of a point guard who efficiently distributes the ball to playmakers and Wilson has been ideal at that. He's accurate, cool under pressure, a natural leader, and rarely makes mistakes. On top of that he can also improvise brilliantly and throws an accurate deep ball which optimizes the kind of explosive plays Carroll is looking for on offense. In other words, he's the ideal QB for Carroll's system. Would Luck be as good playing for the Seahawks? Maybe, but he would have to improve his accuracy and limit his turnovers more than he has so far to equal Wilson's productivity in that type of offensive scheme.

Russell Wilson is the unquestioned leader of a Super Bowl championship team. Those trying to denigrate him have no clue what they're talking about.

[IamSAR]

Some people here seem unable to get past a fantasy football mentality when judging QBs. If they aren't throwing the ball 35-40 times a game for 300+ yards that means they are mediocre and/or a game manager. It's nonsense.

Pete Carroll's philosophy is relatively simple. He believes if you do these three things you will win almost every time:

1. Outhit the other team on every play.

2. Create explosive plays on offense while limiting them on defense.

3. Win the turnover battle.

Everything the Seahawks do is geared around accomplishing those three things. On offense that means a power running game that wears down defenses and establishes physical dominance. It also means a passing attack that heavily utilizes the play action pass and stretches the field with three or four deep shots per game. Although it emphasizes limiting turnovers it is no dink and dunk offense and utilizes the deep pass as effectively as any team on the league.

Carroll doesn't give a damn for fantasy football stats. He doesn't want his QB to throw more than about 25 passes in a game because that means the Seahawks are playing the game on their terms. If Luck was the Seahawks QB he would also be passing about 20-25 times a game for about 200 yards.

Carroll wants a balanced offensive attack that doesn't rely totally on the the QB to make it work and limits turnovers. He sees the QB position as the equivalent of a point guard who efficiently distributes the ball to playmakers and Wilson has been ideal at that. He's accurate, cool under pressure, a natural leader, and rarely makes mistakes. On top of that he can also improvise brilliantly and throws an accurate deep ball which optimizes the kind of explosive plays Carroll is looking for on offense. In other words, he's the ideal QB for Carroll's system. Would Luck be as good playing for the Seahawks? Maybe, but he would have to improve his accuracy and limit his turnovers more than he has so far to equal Wilson's productivity in that type of offensive scheme.

Russell Wilson is the unquestioned leader of a Super Bowl championship team. Those trying to denigrate him have no clue what they're talking about.

Oh there's no question about that. Teams in the NFL strive to have that type of balance, and Russell was drafted into the perfect situation. I think you're missing the point they're trying to make to you. I would much rather Luck being able to play in a situation where he doesn't have to carry the load, but the colts roster just isn't anywhere near what Seattle has. Carroll doesn't ask Wilson to do what Luck is because he simply doesn't have to, if Luck doesn't play well more than Likely colts lose. Excluding Wilson's SB performance, he was noticeably off target in games down the stretch (played against really good defenses), but Seattle is so balanced that they were able to hold on until he adjusted, but let Luck go on have a stretch like that for this current colts roster and there's a big chance they lose. It looks as if you're willing to give Wilson most of the credit for things he really has no effect on, or I could be reading things the wrong way. I'm just not a HUGE QB person, they're extremely important, but it's more to the game than just watching one position

[Carl Dzienkiewicz]

then why is rivers on your terrible list?

I honestly would take all of those qbs ahead of LUCK right now.Rivers has lost a lot of weapons but is still a high quality qb-----hes destroyed colts in past and has great instincts

[dudeski]

You're correct in one instance, it's not close.

RG3 in much more talented.

So many people here try to attribute team success to QB ability. They are not mutually exclusive, but the correlation isn't nearly as pronounced as most fans make it out to be.

its not about team success. Wins mean very little to me

As a qb, Wilson is much better

[jvan1973]

I honestly would take all of those qbs ahead of LUCK right now.Rivers has lost a lot of weapons but is still a high quality qb-----hes destroyed colts in past and has great instincts

you said your list was results based. Many qbs in the league with more results than rivers

[thedude]

C'mon guys,  Luck is a very good QB and someday he may be a great one, but he's not the best in the NFL. 

[braveheartcolt]

C'mon guys, Luck is a very good QB and someday he may be a great one, but he's not the best in the NFL.

You cannot be wrong with an opinion.

You are correct thinking he is good, not great.

I am correct thinking he is great, not good.

Others are correct if they think he is the best.