Andrew Luck is the best QB in the NFL?

[braveheartcolt]

Some people here seem unable to get past a fantasy football mentality when judging QBs. If they aren't throwing the ball 35-40 times a game for 300+ yards that means they are mediocre and/or a game manager. It's nonsense.

Pete Carroll's philosophy is relatively simple. He believes if you do these three things you will win almost every time:

1. Outhit the other team on every play.

2. Create explosive plays on offense while limiting them on defense.

3. Win the turnover battle.

Everything the Seahawks do is geared around accomplishing those three things. On offense that means a power running game that wears down defenses and establishes physical dominance. It also means a passing attack that heavily utilizes the play action pass and stretches the field with three or four deep shots per game. Although it emphasizes limiting turnovers it is no dink and dunk offense and utilizes the deep pass as effectively as any team on the league.

Carroll doesn't give a damn for fantasy football stats. He doesn't want his QB to throw more than about 25 passes in a game because that means the Seahawks are playing the game on their terms. If Luck was the Seahawks QB he would also be passing about 20-25 times a game for about 200 yards.

Carroll wants a balanced offensive attack that doesn't rely totally on the the QB to make it work and limits turnovers. He sees the QB position as the equivalent of a point guard who efficiently distributes the ball to playmakers and Wilson has been ideal at that. He's accurate, cool under pressure, a natural leader, and rarely makes mistakes. On top of that he can also improvise brilliantly and throws an accurate deep ball which optimizes the kind of explosive plays Carroll is looking for on offense. In other words, he's the ideal QB for Carroll's system. Would Luck be as good playing for the Seahawks? Maybe, but he would have to improve his accuracy and limit his turnovers more than he has so far to equal Wilson's productivity in that type of offensive scheme.

Russell Wilson is the unquestioned leader of a Super Bowl championship team. Those trying to denigrate him have no clue what they're talking about.

Half the QB's in the NFL would have a SB ring this year, if they played for your team.

Take that as a compliment.

Enjoy your post season. It's great fun when you know you will be kicking off the new season at home.

[sweetsurrender]

Half the QB's in the NFL would have a SB ring this year, if they played for your team.

Take that as a compliment.

Enjoy your post season. It's great fun when you know you will be kicking off the new season at home.

Perhaps you forgot or just missed my post (#111) but I had asked you to clarify what you meant when you said QBs that have a knack for winning is the most important measurable stat. I took that to mean that you believe winning trumps stats and such. You had said I inferred incorrectly about your post. Could you kindly clarify?

[sweetsurrender]

C'mon guys,  Luck is a very good QB and someday he may be a great one, but he's not the best in the NFL. 

Those are my thoughts too. I just don't see greatness yet. Tons of potential and much will also depend on how the org develops him and builds around him like every team.

[Le Neon]

No, Donny, these men are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of.

quote name="braveheartcolt" post="737506" timestamp="1391853443"]

You cannot be wrong with an opinion.

You are correct thinking he is good, not great.

I am correct thinking he is great, not good.

Others are correct if they think he is the best.

[thedude]

Luck will not be in the conversation for best QB in the NFL until he develops better game management skills.  He needs to learn how to minimize, or eliminate costly turnovers in critical moments of the game or in the biggest games.  In his three playoff games, he has been responsible for nine turnovers.  

 

Now, will he get there?  I think he has a very good chance.  He improved in the turnover area in his second year, but he still has to improve when the game is in the critical stages.  His turnovers have been very costly.  I believe that's because he gets a bit impatient and forces things once in a while.  Sometimes it's better to just throw the ball away, or take the sack and try another play.

[thedude]

Why did people lose interest in this thread?

[King Colt]

Russel Wilson hands down.

[BrentMc11]

Why did people lose interest in this thread?

Feb. 2nd thread I guess.....

[SilentHill]

Why read a thread when I know the answer already?

 

Yes, obviously. Luck is the best QB in the NFL.

[thedude]

Why read a thread when I know the answer already?

 

Yes, obviously. Luck is the best QB in the NFL.

I guess it depends on how one defines "the best". Is it stats? Team results?

[SilentHill]

I guess it depends on how one defines "the best". Is it stats? Team results?

 

It's based solely on who gives you're team the best chance to win now and in the future.

[BOTT]

Seahawks have Wilson and a Super Bowl trophy. Nuff said.

Quality analysis

[BOTT]

He hasn't even really separated himself from great young qbs yet. Luck has a tremendous future ahead of him but let's not get ridiculous. You'd get an arguement from many non Colts fans saying he's better then Wilson or Kaepernick, Foles, Newton. Hell, they're probably Redskins homers who still think Griffen will obliterate them all next season.

Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Manning are still in a whole other zip code, for now.

Key word being "fans"

[thedude]

It's based solely on who gives you're team the best chance to win now and in the future.

So, actual wins isn't the biggest thing? It's just the "best chance to win" that's important? OK.

[Le Neon]

Key word being "fans"

I meant it to be inclusive of all non - Colts fans, including the "professional" analysts and talking heads. Many will see Wilson as the better young qb right now, justified or not.

[SilentHill]

So, actual wins isn't the biggest thing? It's just the "best chance to win" that's important? OK.

 

Winning requires a TEAM. You can't base the best QB on TEAM results.

[1yrdandacloudofdust]

I realized, Peyton and Tom are good to a certain point only. When you stack a really good defense against them, they have no chance. Peyton had the one of the best WR corps of all time but obviously the teams focus wasn't there....

Put Andrew Luck against a good defense, he will quickly find a way to pick it apart. Even if it means running for his life, he gets around it.

Down by 35 points? No problem, he will not give up on his team. He will lift his teams spirit up and turn the game around.

Tom was absolutely not focused at all in the game vs. Denver. Neither was Peyton in the Super Bowl.

I think it is time to revise this list, not including Super Bowls but its the start of a new era:

1. Andrew Luck

2. Drew Brees

3. Aaron Rodgers

4. Peyton Manning

5. Tom Brady

It really disappointed me to see how the Broncos performed today, it was horrendous..and feel like the Colts would have done much better then to give a free Super Bowl to the Seahawks like that. So glad we picked up Andrew Luck....

Dude, what sane person Has Drew Brees and Luck above Aaron Rodgers? This thread should be locked. Does nothing but jinx Luck.

[Gavin]

This whole thread is like some form of comic relief

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Seattle has the best defense ever in the history of the NFL. Don't care what anyone says, that's my story & I'm sticking with it.

Completely shutdown Peyton Manning.

Also, I believe Peyton should retire this off-season. That was flat out embarrassing. Break all those records & win multiple awards just to get smacked on worldwide television

 

Seattle had the best defense last year  .

 

I agree 18 was shut down the pressure got to him 12 seconds into the game & never let up ..  Others teams have done every bit as good in the past the Ravens with Ray Ray come to mind .

 

I also believe 18 should retire .  I just don't want Denver to Win anything with 18 .    He's a Colt for life ..

[Beauregarde]

Seattle had the best defense last year  .

 

I agree 18 was shut down the pressure got to him 12 seconds into the game & never let up ..  Others teams have done every bit as good in the past the Ravens with Ray Ray come to mind .

 

I also believe 18 should retire .  I just don't want Denver to Win anything with 18 .    He's a Colt for life ..

No, he isn't a Colt any longer and shouldn't be considering how he was treated. He is a Bronco for life and I expect him to play another four years and perhaps five. I am rooting for him to win multiple Super Bowls and even if that is not possible I get to watch the best QB I have ever seen play for several more years. I expect him to be back in the AFC Championship game (or do you like to call that something else too, and have a good chance to get back to the NFL Championship game.

[Dustin]

No, he isn't a Colt any longer and shouldn't be considering how he was treated. He is a Bronco for life and I expect him to play another four years and perhaps five. I am rooting for him to win multiple Super Bowls and even if that is not possible I get to watch the best QB I have ever seen play for several more years. I expect him to be back in the AFC Championship game (or do you like to call that something else too, and have a good chance to get back to the NFL Championship game.

 

NFL Championship game? Does Peyton own a time machine? 

[Beauregarde]

NFL Championship game? Does Peyton own a time machine? 

 

NFL Championship game? Does Peyton own a time machine? 

Nah, I was poking fun. Someone used NFL Championship game the other day and that poster jumped all over it. It is the Super Bowl but in effect, it is the NFL Championship game. By the way, I don't want to imply in my previous post that I was upset that Andrew Luck was drafted and Peyton let go. I am a huge Peyton Manning fan and I always will be. I view it like the Pacers trading Danny Granger. They got a chance to make the team better for the short term and perhaps for the long haul too. Once just can't argue with a team doing that. But, I will always picture Peyton in Denver orange instead of Colt's blue because of the way it happened.

[thedude]

Winning requires a TEAM. You can't base the best QB on TEAM results.

Really? So them why is Joe Montana considered by many to be the greatest QB of all time? It certainly isn't because of his overwhelming physical skills or impressive stats.

[thedude]

It seems that many people have a sliding scale as to how you rate a QB. Many of those people are very inconsistent in how they rate QB's.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

No, he isn't a Colt any longer and shouldn't be considering how he was treated. He is a Bronco for life and I expect him to play another four years and perhaps five. I am rooting for him to win multiple Super Bowls and even if that is not possible I get to watch the best QB I have ever seen play for several more years. I expect him to be back in the AFC Championship game (or do you like to call that something else too, and have a good chance to get back to the NFL Championship game.

 

AFC Championship possible .

 

NFL Championship Wrong as usual there is none & Peyton Manning has never participated in one .

[SilentHill]

Really? So them why is Joe Montana considered by many to be the greatest QB of all time? It certainly isn't because of his overwhelming physical skills or impressive stats.

 

I don't agree with that. So maybe that helps to tell you how I rate QB's.

[Beauregarde]

AFC Championship possible .

 

NFL Championship Wrong as usual there is none & Peyton Manning has never participated in one .

The World Series is also the MLB Championship Series this also applies to hockey, basketball and just about every known sport that overhypes their championship game or series.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Really? So them why is Joe Montana considered by many to be the greatest QB of all time? It certainly isn't because of his overwhelming physical skills or impressive stats.

 

 

Quarterbacks Who Have Won the Super Bowl the Most Times in NFL History

T-1. Joe Montana - 4

Joe Montana won four Super Bowls in his great Pro Football Hall of Fame career. That is tied for the record for most wins by a quarterback, and also tied for the second most wins by any player.

All of Montana's wins, 1981, 1984, 1988, and 1989 seasons, came whole he was playing for the San Francisco 49ers. Joe Montana was the MVP in Super Bowls XVI, XIX, and XXIV, and he holds the record for most MVP wins by any player.

T-1. Terry Bradshaw - 4

Terry Bradshaw set the record for most Super Bowl wins by a quarterback when he won four Super Bowls. All of Bradshaw's wins, Super Bowls IX, X, XIII, XIV, were with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Terry Bradshaw was the MVP of Super Bowls XIII and XIV.

T-3. Tom Brady - 3

Tom Brady of the New England Patriots has played in a record (for a quarterback) five Super Bowls, winning three times in Super Bowls XXXVI, XXXVIII, and XXXIX. Brady was Super Bowl MVP in Super Bowls XXXVI and XXXVIII.

T-3. Troy Aikman - 3

Troy Aikman of the Dallas Cowboys won all three Super Bowls he played in, XXVII, XXVIII, and XXX. Aikman was the MVP of Super Bowl XXVII.

T-5. John Elway - 2

John Elway of the Denver Broncos is tied with Tom Brady for most appearances in a Super Bowl by a quarterback with five. Elway won Super Bowls XXXII and XXXIII. Super John Elway was the MVP of Super Bowl XXXIII.

T-5. Eli Manning - 2

So far in his NFL career, Eli Manning of the New York Giants has won the only two Super Bowls he has appeared in. Eli won Super Bowls XLII and XLVI, and he was Super Bowl MVP for both wins. I'm a Giants fan and Eli Manning has been a great clutch quarterback to root for.

T-5. Ben Roethlisberger - 2

Ben Roethlisberger of the Pittsburgh Steelers won Super Bowls XL and XLIII, and lost Super Bowl XLV so far in his career.

T-5. Roger Staubach - 2

Roger Staubach of the Dallas Cowboys played in four Super Bowls, winning twice. Staubach was the MVP of Super Bowl VI, and he also won Super Bowl XII. If Jackie Smith had caught the easiest pass ever thrown to him in Super Bowl XIII, Staubach might have had three Super Bowl wins.

T-5. Bob Griese - 2

Bob Griese of the Miami Dolphins won Super Bowls VII and VIII. The win in Super Bowl VII (1972 season) capped the only undefeated season in the NFL since the inception of the Super Bowl.

T-5. Bart Starr - 2

Bart Starr led the Green Bay Packers to victory in the first two Super Bowls ever played, Starr was the MVP for both Super Bowl I and Super Bowl II.

T-5. Jim Plunkett - 2

Jim Plunkett led the Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders to two Super Bowl wins. Plunkett was MVP in Super Bowl XV for the Oakland Raiders, and led the Los Angeles Raiders to victory in Super Bowl XVIII.

[amfootball]

The World Series is also the MLB Championship Series this also applies to hockey, basketball and just about every known sport that overhypes their championship game or series.

Football is unique in that there was an NFL and an AFL league before the merger. So to try to call today's Super Bowl the NFL championship game would not be true. It would be more accurate to say AFL/NFL World Championship Game. See below ....

 

"The AFL and NFL leagues also agreed to play an annual AFL-NFL World Championship Game, matching the championship teams of each league, beginning in January 1967; the game that would eventually become known as the Super Bowl."

[Jaric]

I guess it depends on how one defines "the best". Is it stats? Team results?

Based on advanced metrics and analysis, I can say with 100% certainty that Andrew Luck leads all NFL players in "awesomeness" by a significant margin.

[rsrobinson]

Half the QB's in the NFL would have a SB ring this year, if they played for your team.

Take that as a compliment.

Enjoy your post season. It's great fun when you know you will be kicking off the new season at home.

Half the quarterbacks? Playing half the season behind a patchwork offensive line decimated by injuries that was one of the worst in the league in pass protection? Playing without two top receivers for most of the season? Playing frequently against top tier defenses? Playing in the toughest division in the league where even a 12-4 record would have relegated the Seahawks to the wild card and three road playoff games? Playing three playoff games against teams with a combined 36-12 record?

Not a chance.

[thedude]

I don't agree with that. So maybe that helps to tell you how I rate QB's.

You don't agree with what? Is is the Joe Montana thing? If so, you can disagree all you want, but most everyone rates him as the greatest QB of all time and it isn't because of his monster stats.

[Jaric]

Really? So them why is Joe Montana considered by many to be the greatest QB of all time? It certainly isn't because of his overwhelming physical skills or impressive stats.

Not throwing an interception in 4 superbowls is a good start though.

[thedude]

Half the quarterbacks? Playing half the season behind a patchwork offensive line decimated by injuries that was one of the worst in the league in pass protection? Playing without two top receivers for most of the season? Playing frequently against top tier defenses? Playing in the toughest division in the league where even a 12-4 record would have relegated the Seahawks to the wild card and three road playoff games? Playing three playoff games against teams with a combined 36-12 record?

Not a chance.

Right. People fail to realize how the Seahawks offensive line was torn up by injuries this year. I think Wilson was one of the primary reasons they got to the Super Bowl.

[thedude]

Not throwing an interception in 4 superbowls is a good start though.

So, leading a team to championships is your measuring stick for a QB?

[Beauregarde]

Football is unique in that there was an NFL and an AFL league before the merger. So to try to call today's Super Bowl the NFL championship game would not be true. It would be more accurate to say AFL/NFL World Championship Game. See below ....

 

"The AFL and NFL leagues also agreed to play an annual AFL-NFL World Championship Game, matching the championship teams of each league, beginning in January 1967; the game that would eventually become known as the Super Bowl."

Those teams merged. The name of the league is the NFL. They take their two conference champions and they play for the right to be called the best team in the NFL. That makes it an NFL Championship game. It just happens to have adopted the name Super Bowl.

[Jaric]

So, leading a team to championships is your measuring stick for a QB?

It's part of it.  I don't think there is any one stat that by itself determines the greatness of a QB.  IMO that's lazy analysis.

[thedude]

OK, can a QB be considered the best ever with no championships in his resumé?

[braveheartcolt]

Half the quarterbacks? Playing half the season behind a patchwork offensive line decimated by injuries that was one of the worst in the league in pass protection? Playing without two top receivers for most of the season? Playing frequently against top tier defenses? Playing in the toughest division in the league where even a 12-4 record would have relegated the Seahawks to the wild card and three road playoff games? Playing three playoff games against teams with a combined 36-12 record?

Not a chance.

You are wrong, regarding this hypothetical situation.

 

Oh, wait.....

[Jaric]

OK, can a QB be considered the best ever with no championships in his resumé?

In my opinion, probably not.  I suppose there is always that outlier, but if you don't have at least one ring you're probably not going to make my list.  That doesn't mean that winning super bowls, or more accurately the number of super bowls is the only factor that goes into that determination. 

 

That all said, there are plenty of people who will swear up and down that Dan Marino is the best QB ever to play (these people are wrong but they do exist...)