Did Peyton Fail To Mentor Curtis Painter?

[theking213]

On Sportscenter this morning Teddy Bruschi was talking about Andrew Luck, Peyton and Curtis Painter.

He was asked about Phil Simms comments and agreed saying that Peyton Manning is not the mentoring type of person. And used Curtis Painter and the Colts inability to win a single game as evidence.

(He also praised Tom Brady for mentoring Matt Casell and said that was a major reason why the Patriots were successful in 2008)

Sooo do you place part of the blame for this season on Peyton Manning?

Let's compare both Painter (this season) and Casell (2008 when Tom Brady went down for the year) in their first 4 starts.

Curtis Painter

Matt Casell

Painter

60/108 (55%) for 813 yds 5 TDs 2 INTs

Casell

79/124 (64%) for 758 YDs 2 TDs 4 INTs

[bavanlan]

Both Peyton Manning and Curtis Painter have consistently said that Manning gets all the practice reps.

While Painter may learn in the film room, Manning is the type to prepare himself for Sunday, not another player for the future. If you want Manning to mentor, make him a coach.

[tonychen]

This ex-Pats surely will find ways to praise his team and Brady. The number here pretty much told the story, as Painter has had more TDs and yards. Plus the Colts offensive system is lightyears more complex than Pats'. The QB here is asked to do a lot more than just being a QB throwing the ball accurately.

[bavanlan]

And no, I don't blame Manning for preparing for the present, rather than the future.

[MAC]

Oh yes, Brady is just the personification of virtue. Give me a break.

Manning appears to have a great relationship with Painter, and I'm sure Painter has learned a LOT just in the process of helping Manning break down film and prepare for games, but Manning has enough things to do in the Colts offense without investing extra time in developing another player. They have a QB coach, plus Caldwell was a QB coach. Polian specifically credited Frank Reich and Jim Caldwell with developing Painter, and that's the way it should be.

This ties into the whole argument about "the next Colts QB" benefiting from sitting behind Peyton for several years. There may be some benefit, but you don't get better by osmosis, you get better by playing. The concept seems largely a fan fantasy to me.

[tonychen]

Pats have traditionally been owning one of the best OL for pass protection in the league, which is extremely helpful for young QBs since they tend to panic when the line cannot handle blitzing. That year's Pats had Randy Moss who was still willing to play. Also their D was still legit at the time.The three conditions made it an ideal situation for young QBs to success as game managers.

Colts basically have nothing now. The QB needs to be the OC on the field and single-handedly get the win.

[dn4192]

Painter wasn't brought in to be Peytons replacement, but his backup. Luck would be brought in to be Peytons replacment...there is a huge difference.

[John Waylon]

He was never meant to mentor painter.

[tonychen]

Just one answer: Colts QB means much bigger shoes to fill.

[swflacoltsfans]

Bruschi gets paid to make *ic statements and he does a great job.

[Jaric]

I'm curious as to why we're letting Tedy Bruschi into our locker room.

[ponys]

This is crazy to compare Painter to Casell, NE is a complete team. We only had Payton and now we have a O line that's all hurt except Saturday and our starting RB been hurt all year. Painter is doing a great job considering what he is working with.

[joo 2h]

Teddy Bruschi need to shut up

Peyton job is not to mentor painter, And im sure painter has learned alot from Peyton anyway, but when its all said in done, stuff like that falls on the head coach.

Matt Casell had BB and his staff, and painter had Jim Caldwell?? lol enought said pat fan, Hes trying to say how much tom brady is better then Peyton lol, somebody tell him to look at the coaching staff who has a hall of fame coach, and look at us who have a college reject....

Edited October 27, 2011 by joo 2h

[The Peytonator]

Big friggin deal if Peyton took all the practice reps. I'm sure Painter got all the second team practice reps.

I know Peyton is already qb and offensive coordinator, I didn't know he was also the quarterback coach. Jesus Christ, apparently the guy is supposed to do everything for this team. It's not like Painter's numbers are bad, he's just not the caliber player that Peyton is. Peyton can single handedly win games, and it's asking too much out of Painter to expect him to do the same thing.

[Thewholefnshow28]

I wish Bruschi would just shut up.

How is it Peyton failed? Last time I checked we have a coach who can decide who takes what reps. Last time I checked we had a coach who could sit Manning during the preseason and let Painter get some reps with the first team. Te coaching staff failed to really prepare Painter not Manning.

[JimJaime]

I love Teddy, but here he is tottally wrong! This is a case of COACHES not making sure their back up is ready to play PERIOD. My one QUESTION is Manning helping since he is on the sidelines during the game? (I am sure he sees things that Painter due to inexperience doesnt)

[justcolts]

This comment was made just to grab some attention, Manning's main job is to plan and prepare for the win now. My opinion is that Manning plays a big role in determining the offensive game plan every week whereas Brady has a lesser input as Belichick does most of the game planning so probably Brady has more time to play the mentor. Also mentoring is a 2 way street not questioning or doubting Painter's attitude but the amount of effort the person being taught puts in also has a big impact on how much they learn.

[ViriLudant]

This ex-Pats surely will find ways to praise his team and Brady. The number here pretty much told the story, as Painter has had more TDs and yards. Plus the Colts offensive system is lightyears more complex than Pats'. The QB here is asked to do a lot more than just being a QB throwing the ball accurately.

Can this inaccuracy please stop?

The Colts have an EASY offensive system. EASY. As stated by Dungy, Caldwell, and Peyton Manning himself. It's a simple system, based on timing. Timing is not easy, but the routes are.

[ViriLudant]

Can this inaccuracy please stop? The Colts have an EASY offensive system. EASY. As stated by Dungy, Caldwell, and Peyton Manning himself. It's a simple system, based on timing. Timing is not easy, but the routes are.

A good article that proves my point.

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2008/8/7/589148/perfection-understanding-t

[hawkeyes]

Bruschi is an *!

[Smitto]

Someone just said that Peyton was not meant to mentor painter... so what makes some of us fans to believe that peyton will mentor luck if he is here... peytons work ethic wont change for one player... it has never been that way in the NFL and it never will..

With that said i dont think any QB actually takes another QB under his wings and mentor them these days, they dont have time for that and i dont blame them, if you want to be mentored go ask someone like brett favre

[Peyton and Eli fan]

Someone just said that Peyton was not meant to mentor painter... so what makes some of us fans to believe that peyton will mentor luck if he is here... peytons work ethic wont change for one player... it has never been that way in the NFL and it never will..

With that said i dont think any QB actually takes another QB under his wings and mentor them these days, they dont have time for that and i dont blame them, if you want to be mentored go ask someone like brett favre

Peyton would probably see Luck as competition. I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to take a mentoring role. The only time a veteran QB really mentors a younger player is when they are specifically brought in to do so after a team drafts a young QB or after they are benched themselves (like McNabb to Ponder). I don't expect a healthy Peyton to be mentoring anyone.

[chad72]

I love Teddy, but here he is tottally wrong! This is a case of COACHES not making sure their back up is ready to play PERIOD. My one QUESTION is Manning helping since he is on the sidelines during the game? (I am sure he sees things that Painter due to inexperience doesnt)

This is spot on. The coaches should make sure the backup QB gets ample reps (maybe 10-15%) with the first stringers to develop him as well. I doubt Manning will ever question authority if the coaches sit him down to give Painter some reps with the first stringers. It is just that no one deemed it to be important, management and coaches, and that set back Painter's progress.

Edited October 28, 2011 by chad72

[SanAntonioColt]

All the mentoring in the world will not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I expect Peyton is working with Painter now. Before Peyton was preparing to win on Sunday. The Brady/Cassell comparison is ludicrous. Any average QB could have won games with the Patties. If Brady's mentoring was so good why didn't it last. Cassell has not done much with KC.

BTW don't teams have OCs and QB coaches to do the mentoring. I also doubt that Peyton told Painter he couldn't study film with him.

[Yehoodi]

And no, I don't blame Manning for preparing for the present, rather than the future.

yah but the problem is Painter is the "present" . . . the future is now as they say . . . and if you do not prepare for that . .. then well . . . . you will be out in the cold with no acorns, whilst your other furry friends are warm and cozy inside the tree with plenty of acorns . . . .

[Cain Marko]

All these guys are grown men. They should prepare themselves. Painter was just drafted in 2009 and was what a 6th rd pick? I doubt the Colts were counting on Painter to be the future but more of a clipboard holder. Obviously as Colts fans we are seeing how important Manning is to the team. He deserves the snaps to be prepared because he's asked to do so much.

[Yehoodi]

for me, when I see TB on the sideline Hoyer or the other backup is not far from TB, and many times I see brady looking at stills and hoyer right there next to him . . . many times tho when i see manning he is next to one of his WRs . . . not saying it is right or wrong, but certainly if a back-up QB in toe, one would guess that said back-up might learn a few things . . . now maybe that is a team ordered thing or individual thing, but I have seen Hoyer and the other backup not too far from TB on the sidelines . . .

I do think however that the team is to blame for not getting the back up more reps in practice and preseason . . .

i thought i heard somewhere that the Colts as a team policy does not let the back-up know the offense signals lest he leaves the and gives away the secrets . . . not sure if this is true, but i can understand of the back-up is a tad behind if he is left in the dark to a degree . . ..

[21isSuperman]

i thought i heard somewhere that the Colts as a team policy does not let the back-up know the offense signals lest he leaves the and gives away the secrets . . . not sure if this is true, but i can understand of the back-up is a tad behind if he is left in the dark to a degree . . ..

Like you, I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I am skeptical of it. Not giving the back-up QB signals doesn't do much when you tell everyone else on your offense the signals and they can all leave via free agency.

As for Peyton mentoring Curtis, I've heard that before, Peyton would do nearly all of the film study on his own. But more recently, he has let the backup QB watch the film and take notes and then report back to Peyton with what he found

[Yehoodi]

Like you, I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I am skeptical of it. Not giving the back-up QB signals doesn't do much when you tell everyone else on your offense the signals and they can all leave via free agency.

As for Peyton mentoring Curtis, I've heard that before, Peyton would do nearly all of the film study on his own. But more recently, he has let the backup QB watch the film and take notes and then report back to Peyton with what he found

Yah I hear ya on the signal calls, cause the other 10 guys on offense could leave with the secrets . . . as for PM only studying film, i did not know that, glad that he is incorporating the backup QB . . . every person has their strengths, weaknesses, and quirks . . . I know I have heard that PM spends a great deal of time with the WRs in the off season while other QBs are on vacation or sliding down water slides . . .on the other hand i see QBs like TB always near their back-up and others QBs not so much . . . so each contributes in their own way . . .

[Superman]

On Sportscenter this morning Teddy Bruschi was talking about Andrew Luck, Peyton and Curtis Painter.

He was asked about Phil Simms comments and agreed saying that Peyton Manning is not the mentoring type of person. And used Curtis Painter and the Colts inability to win a single game as evidence.

(He also praised Tom Brady for mentoring Matt Casell and said that was a major reason why the Patriots were successful in 2008)

Sooo do you place part of the blame for this season on Peyton Manning?

Let's compare both Painter (this season) and Casell (2008 when Tom Brady went down for the year) in their first 4 starts.

Curtis Painter

Matt Casell

Painter

60/108 (55%) for 813 yds 5 TDs 2 INTs

Casell

79/124 (64%) for 758 YDs 2 TDs 4 INTs

Cassell was really only more successful in that the team won more games, not in his personal statistics, as you've shown above. And the reason that team won more games is because they were better at offensive line, and on defense, than we are. It also helps that, while Tom Brady is just as involved in the game-planning as Peyton Manning is, Brady doesn't call plays at the line of scrimmage as much as Manning does, so part of the play-calling is sacrificed in Manning's absence.

[John Dee]

Both Peyton Manning and Curtis Painter have consistently said that Manning gets all the practice reps.

While Painter may learn in the film room, Manning is the type to prepare himself for Sunday, not another player for the future. If you want Manning to mentor, make him a coach.

I hope U have already trademarked that AV because it will soon become quit popular at LOS soon.

[willysp]

On Sportscenter this morning Teddy Bruschi was talking about Andrew Luck, Peyton and Curtis Painter.

He was asked about Phil Simms comments and agreed saying that Peyton Manning is not the mentoring type of person. And used Curtis Painter and the Colts inability to win a single game as evidence.............

It's not Manning's job to mentor young QB's - he spends his mentoring time on young WRs. Manning's job is to (1) win next week's game, (2) win the game after next , ...... [yeah, it's actually the coaches' job to do that, but Manning has to step up and do it] I think that accounts for all of Manning's time.

It's the coaching staff's job to mentor Painter. Including telling Manning, whether he likes it or not, that Painter gets some real reps. But that would require a strong coaching staff......

Edited October 28, 2011 by willysp

[John Dee]

Ah Heck lets not worry about it ... If Manning is good to go then Indy trades the pick. If Manning is NOT good to go.... then Indy drafts Luck if they suck enough.

[John Dee]

It's not Manning's job to mentor young QB's - he spends his mentoring time on young WRs. Manning's job is to (1) win next week's game, (2) win the game after next , ...... [yeah, it's actually the coaches' job to do that, but Manning has to step up and do it] I think that accounts for all of Manning's time.

It's the coaching staff's job to mentor Painter. Including telling Manning, whether he likes it or not, that Painter gets some real reps. But that would require a strong coaching staff......

Lets all chill out on Painter... he is NOT the problem... He has played quit well.

[KirkCousins#8]

Lets all chill out on Painter... he is NOT the problem... He has played quit well.

They need to take a reality pill!He's been awesome as a back-up,and his numbers are better than some starters.The problem is we've been spoiled by manning for more than a decade and can't seem to grasp anything less.Curtis will go on to have maybe 3,000/20 tds and 10 ints with a rating of 88 or 90.That's pretty darn good for a back-up.

[Fx Stryker]

Is it me or does Painter look better than Casell there?

And maybe this has something to do with the success the Patriots had with the absence of Brady.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Lets all chill out on Painter... he is NOT the problem... He has played quit well.

Quite well? The team is averaging fewer than 15 first downs per game. Quite well is hardly the adjective I would use to describe that. The Colts have gone from putting up more 1st downs per game than any other team for 5 years in a row to being the 2nd worst team in the league in them. This inability to maintain drives puts far too much pressure on the very weak defense.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Blue Horseshoe

[Smitto]

Peyton would probably see Luck as competition. I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to take a mentoring role. The only time a veteran QB really mentors a younger player is when they are specifically brought in to do so after a team drafts a young QB or after they are benched themselves (like McNabb to Ponder). I don't expect a healthy Peyton to be mentoring anyone.

Thats how i would see it as well, with painter they're practically buddies but peyton doesnt seem like the guy to take time out of practice and guide a QB... It's basically their job to soak everything in that they see and watch tape and go out there and show what they can do on the field...

[JimJaime]

Cassel won because:

1. The Pats ran the ball decently

2. He had a motivated Randy Moss.

3. The Pats D was Ok. (Sorry Colts your D look scary bad!)

4. He had BB as a head coach, and also had a darn good OC coach as well. THIS is huge BB is a HOF Coach.

Edited October 28, 2011 by JimJaime

[IndySouth]

I love Teddy, but here he is tottally wrong! This is a case of COACHES not making sure their back up is ready to play PERIOD. My one QUESTION is Manning helping since he is on the sidelines during the game? (I am sure he sees things that Painter due to inexperience doesnt)

I think we can all agree that Tedy should do less talking! Having said that, who says Painter isn't prepared. In my opinion,he's not played all that poorly. As has been noted by several others, this is a "check with me" type of offense where many (if not most) plays are called at the line of scrimmage. Painter has demonstrated the ability to operate the offense and make changes at the line. Unfortunately, he's also demonstrated a general lack of experience in doing so. Peyton is sooo good at operating this offense largely because of practice and repitition. Curtis Painter hasn't been afforded that luxury. I do not anticipate that he'll ever be considered a viable replacement for Peyton Manning but Curtis Painter is far from being the sole reason that the Colts are winless thus far. He has improved and will continue to improve. Bruschi, on the other hand, will not!