I wonder if we make a play for Jonathan Martin

[Balzer40]

Many people have said that Martin is not a good player. A few say that given more time and experience he could be better. I've not watched him play so I don't have an opinion either way, but what if how he's playing is directly related to how he feels in that environment?

When a person is already mentally beaten down in the workplace, it can be incredibly difficult to perform their job to the best of their abilities. I'm sure for some that isn't a good excuse and even more of a reason he should be avoided. "He shoulda punched him da face and kicked all dere butts on da field" blah blah blah.

All I'm saying is that perhaps a change of scenery would improve his play. How many players have left one team labeled a "bust" only to make their bones with another?

It's something to consider. Or not. Whatever. Just a random thought.

 

 

 

I watched Martin throughout his Stanford career and have seen quite a bit of him in Miami. He just isn't very strong and his leverge leaves a lot to be desired. He was terrible at LT and is only mediocre at RT. The more that comes out about this story the more I question his heart and desire to even succeed in the NFL. Also, I hate the "change of scenery" defense too. Sure there are players that a change of scenery seemed to help, but In most cases...you are who you are and whether you play in Indy or timbukto, the play is gonna remain the same. There are also cases that players have had good yrs. with a certain team and got traded or signed to another team and have sucked. The change of scenery thing is something that fans buy into, but it rarely has any affect on most players.

[Indygal1218]

I watched Martin throughout his Stanford career and have seen quite a bit of him in Miami. He just isn't very strong and his leverge leaves a lot to be desired. He was terrible at LT and is only mediocre at RT. The more that comes out about this story the more I question his heart and desire to even succeed in the NFL. Also, I hate the "change of scenery" defense too. Sure there are players that a change of scenery seemed to help, but In most cases...you are who you are and whether you play in Indy or timbukto, the play is gonna remain the same. There are also cases that players have had good yrs. with a certain team and got traded or signed to another team and have sucked. The change of scenery thing is something that fans buy into, but it rarely has any affect on most players.

Well, alright. Duly noted, sir. I stand corrected.

[bap1331]

Idk man... The coach might yell at him and hurt his feelings...

[Luck_Is_Skilled]

I'd much rather have Incognito, at least people know not to mess with him.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Coltssouth
language

[IndyD4U]

This thread is sorta like the Dolphins locker room.

Like X100

[krunk]

That's not true at all.

 

 

You got that right!

[esmort]

You think there's no chance Martin fighting Incognito could hurt his career? Why should he risk his career for that nut job? If the coaches were ignoring his concerns about it, he did the right thing going to the league.

 

You think him getting into a fight would hurt his career more than what is currently going on?  A fight would have been a "blip" on the NFL radar.  Now every player in the NFL is going to think he is soft (which he is), and that can't be trusted not to run to the NFL if something happens in the locker room (which he can't). 

 

He has alienated both sides ... opponents are going to go out of their way to test him, try to break him, and get in his head; and most players also aren't going to want him for a team mate. 

 

This little stunt did far more damage to his career than the nastiest locker room brawl would have ever done.

 

Persoanlly, I think he already realized he was soft and was not going to make it in the NFL, and this was his way out with a good paycheck.

[John Dee]

I have a feeling when all is said and done Martin will be blackballed from the league.    He has opened a can of worms that is going to have severe consequences for not only Miami but for the NFL.

At some point....

I would not rule it out given the Stanford players we already have...and we need a lineman. If he gets back to the NFL and plays again I don't think it will be with the dolphins and I think we will offer most & also be the best landing spot for him since Luck, Fleener, and Whalen are here

[BlueShoe]

You only made this thread cause you seen my post in the thread about Luck & Fleener reaching out to him. Stealing my ideas, shame on you!!!!

 

Dude, every person on this board had that thought cross his/her mind as soon as this story broke. How could it not? LOL

[MrJaffer]

I'm all for bringing in Incognito and assigning him to toughen up Fleener.

[BOTT]

I'm all for bringing in Incognito and assigning him to toughen up Fleener.

Oh great, this again. Let me guess, he dropped that pass in SD because he was afraid of getting hit by the defender 10 yards away?

[ColtStrong]

Must we go there every time someone becomes available? I want no part of Martin and the whole circus surrounding him.

[ColtStrong]

I'm all for bringing in Incognito and assigning him to toughen up Fleener.

That's uncalled for. 

[NDcolt]

Can't believe Miami players are dissing Martin?? Do you think it's because they know he is not very good & incognito gives them a better chance at winning??? It's starting to seem that way just saying.

[Colts_Fan12]

Can't believe Miami players are dissing Martin?? Do you think it's because they know he is not very good & incognito gives them a better chance at winning??? It's starting to seem that way just saying.

I wonder the same cause how can you stand up for a guy like that especially after hearing that horrible voice mail the guy is a *

[ColtStrong]

I have a feeling when all is said and done Martin will be blackballed from the league.    He has opened a can of worms that is going to have severe consequences for not only Miami but for the NFL.

And someday John Dee will join the rest of us and put the quote first, THEN his response, since those things happened in that order. And 99.9999999% of the internet does it that way for a reason. Because it makes sense. 

 

I first see his response, (I don't know what he's responding to) have to read it, then read the quote and connect the two. Yeah, that makes sense. I have this feeling you do it just to annoy people. I often agree with you, but sometimes following protocol is good, to make it easier for your point to get across. I just wind up getting annoyed with your posts, even though I might agree with you because I have to read your posts backwards. 

[ColtStrong]

Can't believe Miami players are dissing Martin?? Do you think it's because they know he is not very good & incognito gives them a better chance at winning??? It's starting to seem that way just saying.

I'm getting tired of the whole thing. It will get beaten to death until I can't watch a sports channel any more.

[NDcolt]

How do you explain Miami players not welcoming Martin back to the team? Even the QB is sticking up for RI??? He must suck & they know it

[esmort]

How do you explain Miami players not welcoming Martin back to the team? Even the QB is sticking up for RI??? He must suck & they know it

 

Or Martin is twisting the situation into something that the entire team knows is untrue.

[shecolt]

I have just cleaned up this thread and am amazed at how many of you want to point your finger at Martin.

 

After reading about Incognito's alledged sexual harassment of a female worker at a golf outing, I really hope that I will not have to read posts blaming her and saying that she should have understood that the testosterone ridden NFL locker room mentality spills over to a charity golf outing. 

 

Because if I do, I will probably be the first moderator who has ever had to ban herself. 

[Crunked]

Ugh!......................If he can play at a pro bowl level, as a wide receiver......I am all for it.

[smittywerb]

Don't want Martin.  If he can't stand up to Incognito, imagine what opposing defensive lineman are going to say and do to him.  Being on the line is a nasty business.  No, he didn't have to get physical with Incognito, but yes he should have approached him and let it be known he did not like what was going on (that's IF there was a problem to begin with).

[smittywerb]

I have just cleaned up this thread and am amazed at how many of you want to point your finger at Martin.

 

After reading about Incognito's alledged sexual harassment of a female worker at a golf outing, I really hope that I will not have to read posts blaming her and saying that she should have understood that the testosterone ridden NFL locker room mentality spills over to a charity golf outing. 

 

Because if I do, I will probably be the first moderator who has ever had to ban herself. 

 

 

That's a different situation.  It would be similar though if details came out that the female worker partook in the flirting (or whatever was going on) and didn't notify Incognito that it she was uncomfortable with him flirting with her.. 

 

I think what is also fueling this story is that it is Incognito.  He has a record and people quick to say "He's up to his old tricks again."

 

I was with Martin, but after more details came out (the rookie's stolen car, backing out of agreements, partaking in harsh hazing of rookies, etc.), I'm getting the feeling that this story is deeper than just bullying.

[BOTT]

How do you explain Miami players not welcoming Martin back to the team? Even the QB is sticking up for RI??? He must suck & they know it

Or maybe we don't know the whole story. I remember when the entire country was ready to bury the Duke lacrosse team. When are we going to learn to reserve judgement in these type of cases?

[NewEra]

I have just cleaned up this thread and am amazed at how many of you want to point your finger at Martin.

After reading about Incognito's alledged sexual harassment of a female worker at a golf outing, I really hope that I will not have to read posts blaming her and saying that she should have understood that the testosterone ridden NFL locker room mentality spills over to a charity golf outing.

Because if I do, I will probably be the first moderator who has ever had to ban herself.

Now you're just going out in left field. Nobody in their right mind is saying Richie is a good guy. The guy is a tool and shouldn't treat teammates that way. But Martin could if stuck up from himself from day one and we wouldn't be talking about it today, PERIOD! Plain and simple!

[OffensivelyPC]

How do you explain Miami players not welcoming Martin back to the team? Even the QB is sticking up for RI??? He must suck & they know it

I question a team's judgment that (1) backs a guy that got kicked off 3 other teams for the same reason he's now being investigated and (2) puts a man in a leadership role not long after he sexually harrassed a woman at golf charity event by using his golf club to rub her private areas.

[HorseFly]

I find it fascinating people are assuming Martin didn't stand up to Incognito.  How do you know?  Because the harassment continued?  You think a good punch in the nose will stop a serial harasser?  Watching too many reruns of "A Christmas Story," I see.

 

I'm willing to bet he DID stand up to Incognito.  Told him to stop, perhaps physically.  You know what Incognito would have likely done?  Laughed because he knew he got to Martin.  Guys like Incognito, short of showing deadly force to them, will continue until you can shut them up.  Being on a team and then living with each other precludes that from happening.

 

That's where the TEAM failure comes in.  It's a failure of the Dolphin orginazation to keep a known *hole in line.

[BOTT]

I find it fascinating people are assuming Martin didn't stand up to Incognito.  How do you know?  Because the harassment continued?  You think a good punch in the nose will stop a serial harasser?  Watching too many reruns of "A Christmas Story," I see.

 

I'm willing to bet he DID stand up to Incognito.  Told him to stop, perhaps physically.  You know what Incognito would have likely done?  Laughed because he knew he got to Martin.  Guys like Incognito, short of showing deadly force to them, will continue until you can shut them up.  Being on a team and then living with each other precludes that from happening.

 

That's where the TEAM failure comes in.  It's a failure of the Dolphin orginazation to keep a known *hole in line.

I find it fascinating that your are fascinated by people making assumptions...and then turn around and make your own assumptions.

[shecolt]

That's a different situation.  It would be similar though if details came out that the female worker partook in the flirting (or whatever was going on) and didn't notify Incognito that it she was uncomfortable with him flirting with her.. 

 

I think what is also fueling this story is that it is Incognito.  He has a record and people quick to say "He's up to his old tricks again."

 

I was with Martin, but after more details came out (the rookie's stolen car, backing out of agreements, partaking in harsh hazing of rookies, etc.), I'm getting the feeling that this story is deeper than just bullying.

 

I don't know if you've read about this alleged harassment, but it sounds like it went pretty fast and there is no indication that she was flirting. 

 

But, are you saying that if she had been flirting with Incognito; then she is partially to blame? 

[BOTT]

I don't know if you've read about this alleged harassment, but it sounds like it went pretty fast and there is no indication that she was flirting. 

 

But, are you saying that if she had been flirting with Incognito; then she is partially to blame?

Key word is alleged. Maybe it's all true, partially true, or a total lie. We don't know what happened. I can to the police aliens came out of the sky and robbed me gun point....doesn't mean it happened.

[SkyBane]

Key word is alleged. Maybe it's all true, partially true, or a total lie. We don't know what happened. I can to the police aliens came out of the sky and robbed me gun point....doesn't mean it happened.

Comparing a sexual harrasment case involvimg what is known to be one of the scummiest people in the NFL to a claim that would only be made by someone in a tinfoil hat. You are the definition of class, sir.

[shecolt]

Now you're just going out in left field. Nobody in their right mind is saying Richie is a good guy. The guy is a tool and shouldn't treat teammates that way. But Martin could if stuck up from himself from day one and we wouldn't be talking about it today, PERIOD! Plain and simple!

 

  I may be in left field, but I feel that those who are labeling Martin are out of the park. 

 

I understand that many feel that he should have reacted differently and is therefore deserving of those "labels", but there is still so much about this story that we don't know that I feel it is unfair to judge Martin just because he didn't act in what others consider to be the appropriate manner. 

 

And, this is coming from a 5'2", 105 pound woman who was instrumental in getting a high school soccer coach fired and a long-time hazing practice stopped.

[shecolt]

Key word is alleged. Maybe it's all true, partially true, or a total lie. We don't know what happened. I can to the police aliens came out of the sky and robbed me gun point....doesn't mean it happened.

 

Which is exactly why I made sure to include the word, "alleged". 

[Superman]

Comparing a sexual harrasment case involvimg what is known to be one of the scummiest people in the NFL to a claim that would only be made by someone in a tinfoil hat. You are the definition of class, sir.

 

 

I'm not defending Incognito, and I have absolutely no problem believing that he acted inappropriately with this woman, but... this is still an "alleged" act of harassment. And it will probably stay that way, since she was apparently paid off to keep it quiet.

[NewEra]

I may be in left field, but I feel that those who are labeling Martin are out of the park.

I understand that many feel that he should have reacted differently and is therefore deserving of those "labels", but there is still so much about this story that we don't know that I feel it is unfair to judge Martin just because he didn't act in what others consider to be the appropriate manner.

And, this is coming from a 5'2", 105 pound woman who was instrumental in getting a high school soccer coach fired and a long-time hazing practice stopped.

Yeah I'm just saying in my own personal manner and opinion how I handle things. My wife is on the complete opposite. Maybe that's why we are so good together, she keeps me grounded and from going postal on the regular ;)

[BOTT]

Comparing a sexual harrasment case involvimg what is known to be one of the scummiest people in the NFL to a claim that would only be made by someone in a tinfoil hat. You are the definition of class, sir.

If that's what you took from it, that's your problem.

I don't know Incognito. All I know is he had some problems in college, some problems in the nfl, but according to espn the mag, the last few years he has worked hard on deAling with his anger issues. But hey mr classy, keep calling a guy you have never met scum.

[SLVR and Black]

Must we go there every time someone becomes available?

On the Raider board, we're having the same discussions, lol.

 

Why am I here? Because the Colts are my adopted #2 team and all we're talking about is Martin/Incognito and arguing about whether or not Pryor's the guy moving forward.

[smittywerb]

I don't know if you've read about this alleged harassment, but it sounds like it went pretty fast and there is no indication that she was flirting. 

 

But, are you saying that if she had been flirting with Incognito; then she is partially to blame? 

 

 

Yeah, I know of the situation and that's what I was saying.  Just trying to relate it to this situation.

[John Dee]

Whatever.. 

 

Just look at how the "Dolphin players" are reacting to this.      Martin was part of a players UNION.      and a pretty strong one at that.         He is rocking the boat.   Miami's ENTIRE TEAM has rallied around a thug in Richie...      Martin totally overplayed his hand here.  

 

I am not on either side...     but I totally see Marin losing this battle.      And never heard from again.

And someday John Dee will join the rest of us and put the quote first, THEN his response, since those things happened in that order. And 99.9999999% of the internet does it that way for a reason. Because it makes sense. 

 

I first see his response, (I don't know what he's responding to) have to read it, then read the quote and connect the two. Yeah, that makes sense. I have this feeling you do it just to annoy people. I often agree with you, but sometimes following protocol is good, to make it easier for your point to get across. I just wind up getting annoyed with your posts, even though I might agree with you because I have to read your posts backwards. 

[shecolt]

Yeah, I know of the situation and that's what I was saying.  Just trying to relate it to this situation.

 

Wow!  I think it's best that I just say . . . no comment . . . and leave it at that.