Pursue Jake Long?

[NCost12]

Does anyone not want to get Long in free agency? We really need to get this guy to help this line out, we were horrific this year. http://nachmanyfootball.com/2013/01/15/colts-could-pursue-dolphins-t-jake-long-in-free-agency/#more-1105

[jvan1973]

He isn't nearly as good as the money he will demand

[Balzer40]

I think this was more of an opinion piece than it was anything factual. I have said a dozen times that this guy is over rated and isn't nearly as good as the average fan thinks he is. He is only 27 yrs. old and yet Miami is letting him walk. Hmmm, A franchise LT(supposedly) and Miami is just letting him go. Yeah, something don't add up.

[Malakai432]

I think he's good and can get better, he had somewhat of a rough year. That being said he knows he can get a truck load of $ due to someone overpaying him and that team should not be the Colts. He'd probably rather go to a team that's terrible and will give him more $ over taking a paycut to play for a team that has potential like the Colts, just my opinion.

[NCost12]

Part of the reason he didn't do good as he usually does this year is the dolphins ran a different scheme on o-line than Long is usually used to. But im sure Jake Long would help our oline

[Balzer40]

Part of the reason he didn't do good as he usually does this year is the dolphins ran a different scheme on o-line than Long is usually used to. But im sure Jake Long would help our oline

 

 

He is going to be looking for the same amount of money he's been making. He made over 11 million dollars this season, he can find some other stupid team to pay him that kind of money because they will find out that he isn't worth it. No way I would give this guy even remotely close to that kind of money.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

I think this was more of an opinion piece than it was anything factual. I have said a dozen times that this guy is over rated and isn't nearly as good as the average fan thinks he is. He is only 27 yrs. old and yet Miami is letting him walk. Hmmm, A franchise LT(supposedly) and Miami is just letting him go. Yeah, something don't add up.

Yeah I've seen almost every one of your posts that says he's over rated and I believe I agree... Yet this question keeps getting brought up... Hmmm.. I prefer to get cheaper oline talent that I know is out there.

[Everyone]

I'd rather bring in a few good O-lineman instead of 1 great LT, and I don't know if Longs talent has diminished or if this year with the coaching and scheme changes is the reason for his decline, because he didn't fit.

[HungarianColtsFan]

I think he can be a great help if we can sign him at right price (which is very likely in light of Grigs' statement on cap, I mean he won't overpay anyone). We need 1 great left tackle, and some great O-linemen.

 

We will have to wait untill the beginning of free agency to see what Grigs has in his mind, but I'm sure he and Pagano are already preparing a wish-list of FAs.

[bluebambi]

You guys really don't like AC do you ?I thought he improve tenfold this year .. I would think we would want a rt , rg and and lg before we replace our best offensive line man .

[Balzer40]

You guys really don't like AC do you ?I thought he improve tenfold this year .. I would think we would want a rt , rg and and lg before we replace our best offensive line man .

 

 

 

Thats just it. Castanzo IS a good LT and IMO the colts feel the same way. The guy just completed his 2nd yr. and he was injured a lot of his rookie yr.. Castanzo may not be an elite LT yet, but IMO he very well could get there in another yr. or 2. I don't think Grigson has any intention of replacing Castanzo or moving him to RT like so many here thinks he should be. Unlike us fans, the front office guys actually know what they are looking at and not just making stuff up as they go along. If we sign a tackle at all in the offseason, I think it will be a guy to replace Justice, otherwise a couple of guards is much more likely. 

[Synthetic]

Jake Long is still playing? He's really lasted a long time...

[jvan1973]

Jake Long is still playing? He's really lasted a long time...

He just finished his fifth year.. Not really s long time

[schwamm]

I think it's easy as a casual fan to look at player stats, see "trends", and decide whether a player is living up to his reputation or not. Here, I'm seeing that Long is overrated, and in other threads, people seem convinced we need to replace Castanzo. I may be totally wrong, but both seem off-base and short sighted to me.

It is easy enough to say a WR dropped a pass. That is probably the closest any position operates in a vaccuum. An OLine, though, is as much about how the guys work together as it is about how good any one player is.

I've used this analogy before, but I see the OLine like a structural assembly. All five columns have to do their job. If one is failing to carry its load, it puts significantly increased load on the others, making them appear to be failing themselves.

In both cases (Long and Castonzo), there were significant shortcomings at several positions along their respective lines. As a result, I think it becomes very challenging to seperate failings in the individual from failings in the group. That is where it takes far more expertise than what any casual fan can claim to judge.

That said, I'll be shocked if Castanzo is replaced at LT, and equally so if the Colts seriously go after Long.

[betheafan41]

his franchise tag is at or around 15 million so he has leverage in any contract talks he has with any team. which is why the dolphins more then likely will not resign him or tag him. and i dont blame him, i think at most 10 mil a yr. especially with the needs on the defensive side of the ball and interior line.

[TKnight24]

"Pursue Chance Warmack & every other Alabama Lineman"

Lol, idk. I don't really know much about what it takes to be a "Good Lineman". That's probably the position I'm least knowledgeable on so yeah.....

[BOTT]

Jake. Long is not overrated, he has just had injury problems the last two years.

[CS Colts Fan]

I would like to sign Vasquez in FA.. if they feel Ijalana will work our then we won't need another Guard in FA... I think our interior Oline is our biggest weakness... and grab a Safety and maybe a corner.. grab Spencer and then with our

1st pick DJ Flucker in our first pick.. Natural RT ... he pushes open lanes and good in Pass protection..

if he;s not there and Cooper and Jones are Gone.. get Rhoades @ CB... at safety I like Phillip Thomas out of Fresno State; however can't get @ 24 pick and I don't think he will be there on our 3rd pick

[Jackie Daytona]

As long as we get a major upgrade at most line positions, I don't really care who it is, but Long is available.... He has been injured, so won't get what he could otherwise, he has looked less than he used to due to said injuries, change of scheme, etc.  The Dolphins are letting him go because they nelieve they have an outstanding replacement on their roster already, who better fits their scheme, and is on a ROOKIE pay scale for a few more years..... so they are not just saying, Long Sucks and is overrated now.... we will let him go test the market....

[Kyle]

Thats just it. Castanzo IS a good LT and IMO the colts feel the same way. The guy just completed his 2nd yr. and he was injured a lot of his rookie yr.. Castanzo may not be an elite LT yet, but IMO he very well could get there in another yr. or 2. I don't think Grigson has any intention of replacing Castanzo or moving him to RT like so many here thinks he should be. Unlike us fans, the front office guys actually know what they are looking at and not just making stuff up as they go along. If we sign a tackle at all in the offseason, I think it will be a guy to replace Justice, otherwise a couple of guards is much more likely. 

maybe we put Jake Long at RT

[subvet]

I think this was more of an opinion piece than it was anything factual. I have said a dozen times that this guy is over rated and isn't nearly as good as the average fan thinks he is. He is only 27 yrs. old and yet Miami is letting him walk. Hmmm, A franchise LT(supposedly) and Miami is just letting him go. Yeah, something don't add up.

Yeah but the Dolphins said they were going to cut Brandon Marshall when the Bears offered the draft picks and that worked out pretty good....

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/18017824/stephen-ross-tells-fan-dolphins-were-cutting-brandon-marshall-anyway

[CR91]

im more interested in bushrod, but I cant see the saints letting him go. long isnt the best tackle, but he would form a good tandem with canstanzo, but only at a reasonable price. anything more then 5-8 mil a year is unreasonable.

[chad72]

Well, it could be a case of Vontae Davis where a change of scenery could result in a change of attitude for Jake Long.

 

If his performance was injury related, then we need to be cautious. If it was attitude related, I do think we have the coaches and environment to fix it, much like Vontae Davis.

 

The upside will be huge, I am certain he is a better LT in terms of potential over Castanzo. He is worth the risk if he does not have major injuries and he might even come friendlier than Bushrod due to questions surrounding him. He would still be an upgrade over any other tackle we have, IMO, in terms of upside.

[John Waylon]

Not interested. He's going to want way too much money.

[oldunclemark]

You guys really don't like AC do you ?I thought he improve tenfold this year .. I would think we would want a rt , rg and and lg before we replace our best offensive line man .

You would not replace Costanzo..you would just move him..

We must get at least 2 veteran offensive linemen...there's no maybe

[illdubb]

maybe we put Jake Long at RT

If we can get him at the right price, yes. But I don't see this happening with so many teams needing a T. Too many teams will take his decline as a result of bad coaching or some other excuse to gamble on him (and pay his high dollar salary). If by chance Grigson can get him for the right price, then RT might be a good fit for Jake. But regardless if we get him or not, we need O-line help this offseason. 

[andrewluck4mvp]

you know the only reason he is getting so much money right now is because he still has his rookie contract. which was 57.75 mil over 5 years. if he doesnt pan out in miami dont expect him to be asking that much because he was the 1st pick in the 08 draft and you are not going to get resigned by that team? either youll take a pay cut or test fa and learn your not going to get as much as you expect. most i see him getting is a 30-35 million over 4-5 years which still isnt a unrealistic number. its not because hes bad its because they can take that cap space and add pieces around their qb they took. also say he sucks because his team wont resign him is kind of like the dwight freeney situation. hes been an outstanding de for us over the years and because he will probably want a big contract instead of taking the pay cut he sucks now to? hes had injuries and his numbers havent been there so now all the sudden are we going to say dwight freeney is overrated? probably our best draft pick outside of peyton manning or andrew luck.

[pacolts56]

Free agent OTs Bushrod or Beatty will probably be priced around $6-7M.

 

I'd be a buyer if Long came in at $7-8M per year....but Costanzo's deal is $8M for his entire 4-year rookie deal.

 

Jake Long at a price tag of at least $11M per year is not THAT much better than Anthony Costanzo.

 

And we have 3-4 other pressing needs to address.

[Balzer40]

maybe we put Jake Long at RT

 

 

Thats a possibility I suppose, but I think some team will overpay for his services. He will still get a big contract from a desperate team. Plus, you just don't pay a guy that kind of money for a RT. There are better, cheaper options IMO. I.E. Phil Loadholt. I still say the guy is over rated although I know there are some that will disagree, but I wonder just how much those people have actually watched him play or if they are just going off his reputation. IMO, if this guy was worth the money, Miami would have no problem paying him. He's only 27 and should be in his prime, but for some reason Miami has shown no interest what so ever in resigning him. That tells me that Miami knows he isn't worth the money or that his injury concerns are more problematic than we know about.

[Balzer40]

im more interested in bushrod, but I cant see the saints letting him go. long isnt the best tackle, but he would form a good tandem with canstanzo, but only at a reasonable price. anything more then 5-8 mil a year is unreasonable.

 

 

I agree, I would rather have Bushrod and there is a distinct possibility that the Saints can not afford to pay him. I seen something about that but can't remember where I seen it. Bushrod is really the only Tackle that I would even consider moving Castanzo to the right side for. Otherwise, I think we could get Loadholt for much cheaper and plug him right in to RT.

[GwinnettColt]

If we can get him without breaking the bank, ok.  He's a big name, but his value might be inflated in terms of salary.

 

Bookend him with Castonzo would be nice. 

[pacolts56]

I agree, I would rather have Bushrod and there is a distinct possibility that the Saints can not afford to pay him. I seen something about that but can't remember where I seen it. Bushrod is really the only Tackle that I would even consider moving Castanzo to the right side for. Otherwise, I think we could get Loadholt for much cheaper and plug him right in to RT.

Yep....the Saints are OVER the salary cap by $14.7M

 

They might have a problem.

[illdubb]

you know the only reason he is getting so much money right now is because he still has his rookie contract. which was 57.75 mil over 5 years. if he doesnt pan out in miami dont expect him to be asking that much because he was the 1st pick in the 08 draft and you are not going to get resigned by that team? either youll take a pay cut or test fa and learn your not going to get as much as you expect. most i see him getting is a 30-35 million over 4-5 years which still isnt a unrealistic number. its not because hes bad its because they can take that cap space and add pieces around their qb they took. also say he sucks because his team wont resign him is kind of like the dwight freeney situation. hes been an outstanding de for us over the years and because he will probably want a big contract instead of taking the pay cut he sucks now to? hes had injuries and his numbers havent been there so now all the sudden are we going to say dwight freeney is overrated? probably our best draft pick outside of peyton manning or andrew luck.

The difference being Dwight Freeney isn't fitting our new defensive scheme, and the cap space could be used on potentially three young talents. Dwight Freeney has been, and always will be, my favorite player in the NFL. That being said, the team's new direction hasn't been the right fit for #93.Jake Long's situation in Miami IS entirely different from our situation with Dwight. 

1. Age: 11 seasons versus 5? 

2. Salary: Dwight - 14 Million vs Jake - 11 Million

3. Position: OLB/DE vs LT meaning Expendable (because of age) vs Team Building. 

Jake Long being released in Miami IS NOT the same as us potentially parting ways with #93.  

[andrewluck4mvp]

The difference being Dwight Freeney isn't fitting our new defensive scheme, and the cap space could be used on potentially three young talents. Dwight Freeney has been, and always will be, my favorite player in the NFL. That being said, the team's new direction hasn't been the right fit for #93.Jake Long's situation in Miami IS entirely different from our situation with Dwight. 

1. Age: 11 seasons versus 5? 

2. Salary: Dwight - 14 Million vs Jake - 11 Million

3. Position: OLB/DE vs LT meaning Expendable (because of age) vs Team Building. 

Jake Long being released in Miami IS NOT the same as us potentially parting ways with #93.  

 

 

The difference being Dwight Freeney isn't fitting our new defensive scheme, and the cap space could be used on potentially three young talents. Dwight Freeney has been, and always will be, my favorite player in the NFL. That being said, the team's new direction hasn't been the right fit for #93.Jake Long's situation in Miami IS entirely different from our situation with Dwight. 

1. Age: 11 seasons versus 5? 

2. Salary: Dwight - 14 Million vs Jake - 11 Million

3. Position: OLB/DE vs LT meaning Expendable (because of age) vs Team Building. 

Jake Long being released in Miami IS NOT the same as us potentially parting ways with #93.  

okay read some previous post up there about the different coach schemes with the oline. didnt fit or looked lost in the scheme. cap space could bring in 3-4 players in miami and build a team. you seriously just contradicted youself so many times in just the first sentence alone. because hes a colt you will bias towards him its pretty much the same situation. the only difference is age

[illdubb]

okay read some previous post up there about the different coach schemes with the oline. didnt fit or looked lost in the scheme. cap space could bring in 3-4 players in miami and build a team. you seriously just contradicted youself so many times in just the first sentence alone. because hes a colt you will bias towards him its pretty much the same situation. the only difference is age

So you're saying that Jake Long has been with the Dolphins for 10+ seasons, and fans don't want to see him go, but his age and salary cap are a factor? I did not contradict myself, I see it as two totally different situations in the two. Jake Long has declined in the last two seasons, however, Dwight only managed to put up lower numbers this season (in a new position). Jake Long is supposedly the franchise LT of the Miami Dolphins, and saying that he's a cap casualty and not a release on play is ridiculous. Yes, cap space is a factor, BUT, the two situations are entirely different. 

[NCost12]

http://nachmanyfootball.com/2013/01/15/colts-could-pursue-dolphins-t-jake-long-in-free-agency/#more-1105

[NewColtsFan]

I think I'll pass.     He may or may not be overrated...   but he hasn't produced as he has in the past.   Two years of injuries can do that to a player.    One of the ugly sides to the NFL is how fast a player's skills can diminish.

 

And it's not just due to age...   sometimes it's due to injury...   but a player can go from great to good to average to...   falling off a cliff really, really quickly.   It's not fair,  but it happens all the time on every team in the NFL.

 

This maybe what's going on with Long....    And considering the money he'll want for the number of years he'll want and the upfront signing bonus....   I'll pass...    there are other less expensive options....

[Balzer40]

Jake Long is not a cap casualty in Miami, they just don't want to pay him because he isn't worth what he thinks he should get. Now, I'll admit I really don't know what he's asking for, but if its anything close to what he has been making then, no he is not worth that. Miami has over 35 million in cap money to spend. If they thought Long was a true franchise LT(who I might add should be in the prime of his career at 27 yrs. old) then they would pay him. So, it's either they don't think he's worth anywhere near the money he wants........or his injury concerns are worse than we all know about. Either way, I would much rather the Colts go in a different direction.

[throwing BBZ]

CastOnzo gave up 11 sacks this season. That probably led the League for All O-Lineman.

My eye test saw that he DID NOT move as well in Pass Blocking as he did last season. I`m am guessing his ankle is an issue.

No idea how many sprains he has had on it in his life, but if a lot it would be very susceptable to re-injury.

This could also be a significant hindrance to physical conditioning.

I bet Grigson knows the answer to this and will add this to HIS overall evaluation regarding CastOnzo`s Poor season in Pass Blocking and what to do going forward.

I do know our ability to successfully Run to the right was at about the bottom of the League and that CastOnzo would be a big help there.

[BrentMc11]

What is a  franchise LT?  Is he one that thrives in a man blocking scheme and is 'vulnerable' in the zone scheme as mentioned before.

 

Like Balzer, most of you have seen what I have to say about these offensive linemen.  If you are a FRANCHISE O-lineman, you need to play in any scheme that the NFL has to offer.  This just tells me Long is not a franchise.  

 

I agree with many that we do not break the bank on this guy.  That said we do go man blocking man with minimum deviation.  Long IS better at man blocking....it comes down to money with me....

 

Grigs will get us our guy (s) I am confident the OL will be worth watching next year......we do not need it to be 'OFFENSIVE' again