Does John Harbaugh Have A Point?

[AZColt11]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17405819/benjamin-watson-baltimore-ravens-expected-season-tearing-achilles

 

He says they should do away with pre-season games altogether.  Says they could organize scrims and find other ways to get these guys ready.  But what about the guys trying to make the team?  How do you know who will step up and who can't cut it?  Coaches DO have the option to sit their starters, or at least guys they KNOW will be starters, and let the others battle it out.  But the injuries ARE getting old too.  Especially in games that don't mean anything.  So what's the answer?  IDK.  I think they should go from 2 to 4 P.S. games and lower the ticket prices for those games.  I know the owners will + and moan but it's not like they aren't making a ton off those TV contracts.  Maybe raise the regular season prices 10% to make up?  I mean c'mon!  How many players do you have to lose in meaningless games?  Some changes are definitely needed.   What those changes are IDK.

[NewColtsFan]

 

I'd be in favor of reducing the pre-season games to two.

 

But, under no circumstances am I ever in favor of increasing the number of regular season games.

 

16 is the magic number.

 

Not 20, and not 18.      16.

 

Oh,  and you can also increase the roster size.    I'd prefer 60,  but I'd accept as little as 55.     And if the PS went up to 12 from it's current 10,  that would be a good thing too.

 

 

[ReMeDy]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'd be in favor of reducing the pre-season games to two.

 

But, under no circumstances am I ever in favor of increasing the number of regular season games.

 

 

B-But, what about the commercials!? And Harambe!?

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'd be in favor of reducing the pre-season games to two.

 

But, under no circumstances am I ever in favor of increasing the number of regular season games.

 

16 is the magic number.

 

Not 20, and not 18.      16.

 

Oh,  and you can also increase the roster size.    I'd prefer 60,  but I'd accept as little as 55.     And if the PS went up to 12 from it's current 10,  that would be a good thing too.

 

 

Pre-season is needed unfortunately because that is an excellent way to view your backups talent and play against other teams. Players who maybe should make the team or be cut. Having said that it's our choice/any teams choice to play the starters in pre-season. We don't have to play Luck, just like the Cowboys didn't have to play Romo. I agree 100% regarding keeping the Regular Season at 16 games, that is a perfect number and also if the league changes that to 18 it will affect records too, making it easier for players to break records that are young and now playing. I like the Playoff format the way it is too. 6 teams in each Conference is perfect. It is just enough and makes every game in the Regular Season important.

[AZColt11]

Yeah I think they DO need to take a look at raising the roster number.  So many injuries that it's tough to field a complete team nowadays.  And I also agree 16 regular season games is perfect.  But lower the P.S. to 2 games.  And STOP with the madness of charging full regular ticket prices for them!

[alawai]

Or just add the PS as roster so then roster is 63 and that's it no practice squad.  All on the roster would be active players and would not go through waivers.... I'll accept 18 games but cut pre-season down and add two bye weeks. If you include camp and pre-season games (no matter your body takes a beating) and end of Sept starts the first bye week and the second bye starts early Nov.... If using 18 games, 2 bye weeks but a shorten pre-season games, that would be only 2 weeks - 18 games + 2 weeks, 2 byes since we already have one that would be + 1 week, if you shorten the pre-season games down to 2 games that would make the season only week longer and if shorten by only one game the season would be 2 weeks longer. You could start camp 1/2 weeks earlier and that would not impact the World Series and NBA play-offs... I do understand it's not as simple as that but hey just a mind explosion while I'm enjoying my beer and pizza.

[oldunclemark]

  We will eventually go to 18 regular season games and 2 pre-season games because everybody (players, owners, networks) wants more money all the time...its pro sports

If we accept that the football season includes 20 games, I think 18 and 2 is better than 16 and 4 and 14 and 6 (which is was many years ago)...

Like GFB says....18 game should come with an expansion of the roster...and a 2nd bye week

 

but understand...the fans have absolutely no say in this....

.....people thought the bump from 14 to 16 was too much  but everybody got over it

Its about players, networks and owners....

 

[oldunclemark]

6 hours ago, AZColt11 said:

Yeah I think they DO need to take a look at raising the roster number.  So many injuries that it's tough to field a complete team nowadays.  And I also agree 16 regular season games is perfect.  But lower the P.S. to 2 games.  And STOP with the madness of charging full regular ticket prices for them!

Years ago, everybody said that 14 was perfect.

At one time, NFL teams  played 12 games....

I just dont see the need for 4 pre-season games..especially when the 4th one is only for backups

we're going to 18 games....its just a matter of when and what the players get in return.

If you ran the NFL,,,what is your arguement to the networks against playing 18 and taking more of their money?

[21isSuperman]

A Harbaugh is complaining about something?  Well, that's new....

 

Pre-season games are a necessity.  You can't prevent 100% of injuries in football.  They're a part of the game and will happen whether you play pre-season games or not

[jvan1973]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'd be in favor of reducing the pre-season games to two.

 

But, under no circumstances am I ever in favor of increasing the number of regular season games.

 

16 is the magic number.

 

Not 20, and not 18.      16.

 

Oh,  and you can also increase the roster size.    I'd prefer 60,  but I'd accept as little as 55.     And if the PS went up to 12 from it's current 10,  that would be a good thing too.

 

 

They will go to 18 regular season games eventually.  The owners want it and they will get it

[NewColtsFan]

55 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

They will go to 18 regular season games eventually.  The owners want it and they will get it

 

I hope the players oppose it.     I think the length of the season is something that is negotiated.

 

I don't think it's something the owners can unilaterally just do because they want it.

 

If they get it,  I hope the players get a lot for it.     More money,   more bye weeks,    larger rosters and PS.

 

Otherwise,  I'd be strongly opposed.

 

[jvan1973]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

I hope the players oppose it.     I think the length of the season is something that is negotiated.

 

I don't think it's something the owners can unilaterally just do because they want it.

 

If they get it,  I hope the players get a lot for it.     More money,   more bye weeks,    larger rosters and PS.

 

Otherwise,  I'd be strongly opposed.

 

The players will get more money for sure

[WoolMagnet]

4 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

A Harbaugh is complaining about something?  Well, that's new....

 

Yea, those Harbaugh boys are a lil high strung.

i think they were given too much sugar as kids.

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

The players will get more money for sure

Like they need more

[SilentHill]

You can always rest your starters John, no need to play them in the pre-season if you don't think it's valuable.

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Like they need more

They do if they play more games.   The owners will certainly make a lot more money,  So should the players

[WoolMagnet]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

They do if they play more games.   The owners will certainly make a lot more money,  So should the players

Okay...... (As point flies over head)

[jvan1973]

Just now, WoolMagnet said:

Okay...... (As point flies over head)

What point?  They should make more if they play more games.   Pretty simple stuff

[WoolMagnet]

24 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

What point?  They should make more if they play more games.   Pretty simple stuff

Wooshhhhh

(sound of a jet going over)

[jvan1973]

Just now, WoolMagnet said:

Wooshhhhh

(sound of a jet going over)

Yeah,  you still have yet to make your point

[WoolMagnet]

10 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Yeah,  you still have yet to make your point

The point IS..... (Drum roll)

they are grossly over-paid for talents in an industry that really isn't important in the broader picture that is life. 20 families could live their lives on what these "entertainers" make in a year.

police, military, doctors, etc.. THOSE talents are MUCH more important and most of them are paid in wooden nickles (comparatively).

imo, of course.

[oldunclemark]

1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:

The point IS..... (Drum roll)

they are grossly over-paid for talents in an industry that really isn't important in the broader picture that is life. 20 families could live their lives on what these "entertainers" make in a year.

police, military, doctors, etc.. THOSE talents are MUCH more important and most of them are paid in wooden nickles (comparatively).

imo, of course.

I know you know you're not paid on the basis of how important to society you are.

You basically make a percentage of what your profession rakes in....in private business.

We often forget the NFL is a private business run by very rich men who makes their employees very rich men.

 

I'm all for 18 games..more to watch.....players make more...owners make more

 

[WoolMagnet]

2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

I know you know you're not paid on the basis of how important to society you are.

You basically make a percentage of what your profession rakes in....in private business.

We often forget the NFL is a private business run by very rich men who makes their employees very rich men.

 

I'm all for 18 games..more to watch.....players make more...owners make more

 

Agreed. But they are still grossly overpaid (in advance) , and those payments don't always or usually reflect production on the team, let alone society.

i'm self-employed.  So my pay is a DIRECT reflection of my production.  If I don't produce, I don't eat.  So hopefully you can understand my point of view.  I don't blame the players, i'd cash the checks too.  

[RomanianColtsFan]

That's right. Don't play the starters and then complain when they get injured.

[braveheartcolt]

18 reg season games is the way to go. Record schmecords. Increase the roster, add a bye week, and take out players when the game is done. Does Brady really need to be in there when leading 44 -7? 

[Coffeedrinker]

Unfortunately, with the new CBA and limited practices and limited hitting in practices, the preseason games are even more important now.

 

It's like shooting a gun, you can aim and dry fire all you want but you don't really learn how to shoot unless you're pulling the trigger and a projectile comes out and hits something, and then you have to do that 1000s of times from different positions to learn how to shoot from those positions.

 

You can't really get your body ready to play a full season of getting hit by other people unless you practice getting hit by other people.  They have taken that out of practice in large part so it has to come in the games.

[Coffeedrinker]

19 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

Agreed. But they are still grossly overpaid (in advance) , and those payments don't always or usually reflect production on the team, let alone society.

i'm self-employed.  So my pay is a DIRECT reflection of my production.  If I don't produce, I don't eat.  So hopefully you can understand my point of view.  I don't blame the players, i'd cash the checks too.  

Even that is not 100% true, your pay is not a direct reflection of your production, it's a direct reflection of your production * what people are willing to pay for your services.

 

Pay is based on two things... what someone is willing to pay and what someone is willing to get paid.  To use your cop example, if no one was willing to be a cop for what they are paid now, they would either have to increase the pay to attract people or go without cops.

[WoolMagnet]

Its more complicated than that, but i didn't want to put on my MBA hat and preach.  I'm not selling hot dogs, Bottom line, If i don't produce, i don't get paid, regardless of what i'm willing to accept or customers are willing to spend. Sure, my pricing affects potential of production and past production affects my pricing, but i still gotta produce on a daily basis, or the cash flow stops. Just like if i take a vacation.

theres no IR or bench to hide in my business.

I realize the pay in the NFL is set by the market, i was just saying I don't think any NFL player is "worth" (or i guess i mean they shouldn't be worth) tens of millions annually.  I Understand how markets work but that doesn't mean it passes the smell test.

 

 

 

[BloodyChamp]

I don't know about John, but Jim but laid a truthbomb out on Instagram lol!

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:

Its more complicated than that, but i didn't want to put on my MBA hat and preach.  I'm not selling hot dogs, Bottom line, If i don't produce, i don't get paid, regardless of what i'm willing to accept or customers are willing to spend. Sure, my pricing affects potential of production and past production affects my pricing, but i still gotta produce on a daily basis, or the cash flow stops. Just like if i take a vacation.

theres no IR or bench to hide in my business.

I realize the pay in the NFL is set by the market, i was just saying I don't think any NFL player is "worth" (or i guess i mean they shouldn't be worth) tens of millions annually.  I Understand how markets work but that doesn't mean it passes the smell test.

 

 

 

I'm saying this as a Canadian (and obviously not well versed in your countries Labour laws), but do you guys not have workers comp if you get hurt on the job??? Isn't that essentially the real world version of IR?

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

9 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

I'm saying this as a Canadian (and obviously not well versed in your countries Labour laws), but do you guys not have workers comp if you get hurt on the job??? Isn't that essentially the real world version of IR?

 

I'm a Union Bricklayer broke my ankle while working on the Market Square Tower project in downtown Indy & I'm happy to answer that ,

 

YES we do my doctor bills are paid by the company & I receive my 40 hour check each week & 2 weeks ago I even had 8 hours of overtime per our contract . Workmans Comp is pretty cool  having a broken ankle sucks but it could be worse .

[krunk]

I remember years ago I went to a Colts vs Titans scrimmage in Nashville when Steve Mcnair was still alive.  They were charging to get in that scrimmage.  The scrimmage was held inside the Tennessee Titans stadium and a lot of people showed up.  I keep wondering if that is where they are heading with all these Joint Practices?  Money can still be made, and the coaches will have a more controlled environment to lower the amount of injuries.

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

I'm saying this as a Canadian (and obviously not well versed in your countries Labour laws), but do you guys not have workers comp if you get hurt on the job??? Isn't that essentially the real world version of IR?

Not for sole proprietorships

[SaturdayAllDay]

7 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Not for sole proprietorships

That is very weird. My family owns a ranch up here and I know we all have to pay towards workers comp on any money we make, and to us growing up that was the equivalent of our allowance for doing chores.  I do know it was super hard to deal with WCB for us though, due to how hard it is to prove you were working and not just living your life, as it is your workplace and your residence.  

[SaturdayAllDay]

1 hour ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

I'm a Union Bricklayer broke my ankle while working on the Market Square Tower project in downtown Indy & I'm happy to answer that ,

 

YES we do my doctor bills are paid by the company & I receive my 40 hour check each week & 2 weeks ago I even had 8 hours of overtime per our contract . Workmans Comp is pretty cool  having a broken ankle sucks but it could be worse .

Thanks for the info!!

[WoolMagnet]

4 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

That is very weird. My family owns a ranch up here and I know we all have to pay towards workers comp on any money we make, and to us growing up that was the equivalent of our allowance for doing chores.  I do know it was super hard to deal with WCB for us though, due to how hard it is to prove you were working and not just living your life, as it is your workplace and your residence.  

Perhaps the business was incorporated.

 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

2 hours ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Thanks for the info!!

 

No problem bro .

[ColtsBlueFL]

Harbaugh has a real good point, and it should be explored.  Coaches evaluate players in their one on one match ups as much as how they work in a system.  They can reduce pre-season injuries and yet still allow coaches to keep the best 53.n do this in padded practice and in a couple scrimmages vs. other teams.  That might

[Valpo2004]

I think most coaches would be in favor of more padded practices and less pre-season games. 

 

I would prefer that too.  

 

But I would also have to ask why don't the coaches just dispense with the "dress rehersal" game altogether?

 

Just play the bottom of your roster for all 4 games with maybe a little bit of play from your starters.  You arn't required to play your starters for a half in the 3rd pre-season game, that's just something the coaches do.  Why not have your scrubs play the whole game?