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Dan

Luck snubbed for Pro Bowl in favour of Schaub.

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yes, 8 comeback wins on a team with limited talent, against a guy who really is  just in there not to screw it up , Schaub. Yes, Yes, and Yes.

Lucks stats screams "I am not a pro bowler".  I would put in the kid from the Bengals, Dalton, over Luck to be honest.

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 Most likely, no.

 

Now, does a rookie quarterback who has the -

 

 

  • Most passing yards in a single game by a rookie quarterback: (433)
  • Most passing yards by a rookie in a single season: (4,183)
  • Most 300+ yards passing games by a rookie QB
  • Most wins by a #1 pick QB in his rookie season
  • Most game-winning drives by a rookie quarterback (7)
  • Most fourth quarter comebacks by a rookie quarterback (6)

deserve to got to the Pro Bowl?

Sure does...unfortunately for Luck, he has that pesky completion % on TD/Int rate holding him back.

 

Again, 10 games of at least 1 pick or more, 5 games of at least 2 picks or more.  .

 

5 games of >50% completion %

 

9 games of less than 55% competion %

 

64 QBR, less than Luck and Wilson (I bring up the QBR because on this message board, when Luck was in the top 3 or 4 in this stat while RG3 was in the top 10 but had a higher Traditional rating, fans and media pundits where saying that Luck was better because of the QBR)

 

Those are not pro bowl numbers

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Lucks stats screams "I am not a pro bowler".  I would put in the kid from the Bengals, Dalton, over Luck to be honest.

Dalton had the luxury of playing with a top 3 WR in the NFL, and had a very mediocre year.

 

I don't think Luck should have been in the pro-bowl (because if it weren't for the fact that Luck is a rookie, this year would actually be a pretty bad year for him), but Dalton is pretty pedestrian.

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luck doesn't deserve to make the probowl this year too many int's. i do think luck will be the best rookie qb next year with a better o-line but his accuracy and decision making has been bad . also andy dalton should have made it over schuab he's had a better year.

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Dalton had the luxury of playing with a top 3 WR in the NFL, and had a very mediocre year.

 

I don't think Luck should have been in the pro-bowl (because if it weren't for the fact that Luck is a rookie, this year would actually be a pretty bad year for him), but Dalton is pretty pedestrian.

lol doesnt Luck have Wayne?

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lol doesnt Luck have Wayne?

AJ Green is much better than a 34 year old reggie wayne.

 

Dalton has had a better year than Luck, for sure... my only point is Dalton is a 2nd year player with more weapons around him (don't forget gresham), whereas Luck is a rookie.. 

 

So of course Dalton SHOULD have a better season than Luck

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So your saying if I put Andrew Luck on the Lions he wins 10+ games...THATS HORSE CRAP AND YOU KNOW IT. Luck is beating bottom feeders and barely might i add (EXCEPT GREENBAY) if he played in the NFC North he would get brutalized playing the way he plays now.

LUck is leading such a horrible team...hahaha...before last year yall were winning 10+ games every year. WHATS MOR IMPRESSIVE? LUCK TAKING A GOOD FRANCHISE WITH 1 BAD SEASON TO A GOOD SEASON. OR RG3 LEADING A 20 YEAR BOTTOM FEEDER BACK TO LIFE AND GIVING THEM A CHANCE AT AN NFC EAST TITLE...ITS A NO BRAINER.

Luck was 3-1 against the NFC north this year. You are certainly entitled to an opinion though, regardless of how wrong it may be. But please don't pass your opinion off as fact.

And just what in the world does the previous 10 years have to do with this years team? This is an entirely different organization starting from the GM on down. The team this year was over half rookies and first year Colts. To bring up an era that consisted of Manning and several other people who are no longer here and acting like that success should automatically continue is one of the dumbest things i have ever read on here and thats saying a lot.

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Joseph Addai was a Pro Bowler ONE TIME for what he did in his 1st 10 games of the season. Stank after that. LAME!!!

All the Whiners here because Irsay Dumped PRO BOWLER Addai, Brackett, bla bla!

Being an Alternate should come with a BIG Asterik.

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It is a shame that Luck isn't going, and I don't think Schaub should be going, but it is what it is. The reason why I like Luck over Schaub is that Schaub is that type of QB that won't win you games, and he won't lose you games. Luck is the main reason why the Colts have won so many close games, and that's why I like him over Schaub.

 

However, it's great to see Reggie and Robert back. 

yeah but pro bowl isn't about MVP etc...which in that case Luck might have it over Schaub.

 

I mean do you really want Luck throwing 4 ints in the pro bowl? He's better off not going :)

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Luck was 3-1 against the NFC north this year. You are certainly entitled to an opinion though, regardless of how wrong it may be. But please don't pass your opinion off as fact.

And just what in the world does the previous 10 years have to do with this years team? This is an entirely different organization starting from the GM on down. The team this year was over half rookies and first year Colts. To bring up an era that consisted of Manning and several other people who are no longer here and acting like that success should automatically continue is one of the dumbest things i have ever read on here and thats saying a lot.

No i brought up the fact that people bring up the fools gold 2-14 team you had last year. If Peyton plays you win 10+ games. If you had a decent backup you would have won 6-7 games. People use last years 2-14 team as an argument to why Luck is so great because he flipped the Colts from worst to first. When by far what RG3 is doing in Washington taking a 20 year bottom feeder and making them relivent is more incredible.

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No i brought up the fact that people bring up the fools gold 2-14 team you had last year. If Peyton plays you win 10+ games. If you had a decent backup you would have won 6-7 games. People use last years 2-14 team as an argument to why Luck is so great because he flipped the Colts from worst to first. When by far what RG3 is doing in Washington taking a 20 year bottom feeder and making them relivent is more incredible.

 

So your argument is that Washington has a losing culture and therefore RGIII has had a more impressive season? Because it certainly isn't from an experience standpoint, at least not on offense. Most of the Colts offense are either rookies or are at least first-year Colts and are less experienced than the Skins are.

 

Why does it bother you and others that Colts fan are happy that they have Luck? I think you are smart enough to know that completion percentage and INTs are not the sole indicators of how good a QB truly is. Luck HAS slowed down a bit in the last few weeks. I don't think anyone will debate that. But your and other opposing fans' argument that Luck is this average QB because of his completion percentage and INTs is just silly. I think you know that.

 

And just so you know-- I like RGIII as a QB. I think he has a bright future.

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You CAN use rushing TD and rushing yards.  Yea Luck has 1 less rushing TD but I havent seen Luck take a run 76 yards to the house either.

 

Luck should have a bagillion passing yards. Isnt he top 5 in pass attempts? 600 pass attempts lol wow.  Passing yards are cool, but not everything.  Ask Matthew Stafford. 

 

And NO WAY would Luck have the same amount of rushing yards.  He is nowhere near the athelete that RG3 is.  This has been WELL documented. C'mon man...really lol.  Not saying he isnt a good athelete because he is.  He isnt in the same league as RG3, but to be fair to Luck, not many players in the NFL are from a pure athletic stand point.

 

And to say that Coaches and players would not vote in RG3 would be wrong.  Look at the stats.  He is one of the top QB's in the NFL in the stats that matter:

 

Completion %

TD/Int Ratio

Yards per pass attempt

 

Is RG3 a popular player?  Absolutely

Did that help him in the Pro Bowl voting? Sure

But to say that the coaches and players dont buy into this guy would be wrong, in my opinion.

 

As I said in another post, when the average fan tunes in for highlights, they see Luck throwing interceptions all over the field and I believe this really hurt him with fan voters, players and coaches. 

 

And this is not to say that players and coaches dont buy into Luck because they do,,,the dude is great, I've been on record of saying that, but he hasnt had as good as season as Rg3.  The fact is RG3 has been the most consistent rookie quarterback this year.  He hasnt had a 400 yard game or broken the passing yardage record for rookies, but he also doesnt have 10 games of at least 1 interception and 5 games of at least 2 or more interceptions.  That stuff matters, no matter how much people will try to downplay it.

I like Robert Griffin, Im not trying to downplay how well he has played because he has played great but 2 things stick out like a sore thumb

 

1.Pass Attempts difference is huge which means more chance for picks, (Personally I was hoping for an average ratio of 35 pass 27 in our offense if an average offensive plays per game is 62 which is 56.4 percent pass to 44.6 run instead Luck is throwing 64.5 percent of the time, rounded up 65 to 35 pass to run without an O Line)part of that is because we play from behind alot however do to a mixture of poor defense until late in the game and Lucks inaccurate passing which both would be helped by Arians making some minor adjustments which he refuses to do which leads to to 2

 

2.And the most important aspect to take into account, Shanahan took the smart approach of fitting the offense around Griffins strengths, Arians knows what Lucks strengths are he just does not give a rip

 

3.I never said Luck would have the exact same rushing yards if he rushed for the exact number of times Griffin has, one look at ypc would tell ya that but he would be reasonably close, lets not forget Lucks 58 yard run in college that left Shareece Wright wondering what the heck hit him

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Both QBs are great but Ill say this, be prepared because RG3 will probably win ROTY too. He is very popular and all the basic fans buy into what I call surface stats. He has been very good dont get me wrong but luck has set records, been very clutch and performed in clutch situations repeatedly and has been a bigger impact player to me. That or iy will be Wilson, especially if Seattle makes a run which tbey could. They are gonna be dangerous. Just informing, dont get hopes up on Luck winning ROTY because Im willing to bet it will go to Rg3 or Wilson. And alot of it is the popularity contest.

 

Very valid points about surface stats and the importance of popularity.  However, even more in-depth analysis in this particular situation backs up what the stats indicate.  Griffin has looked substantially more accurate on average on film and both players have been tremendously impactful for their teams in their own ways.  The former is partially related to scheme but players don't get credit for playing in worse schemes when it comes to these awards.  They get judged on perceived execution of the scheme they're stuck with.

 

i see your point, but Montanas stats were not special even then. I think he only threw for over 30 TD's a couple times all the while guys like Marino and Everett, while good players also, were lighting up scoreboards with better passing stats, So I say the comparison is still relevant. Romo  is a statistical  superstar just like a  lot of passers from the 80's.

 

What made Montana special from a statistical standpoint was his consistency.  He wasn't the most prolific guy but he was one of few guys at the time who was alway near the top of the list of guys having a good season throughout the 80s.

 

So Luck's turnovers are the issue you have then. I gotcha, but it still doesn't move me. It seems you are blaming the amount of INT's  and not actually looking at INT rate compared to his passing attempts. It's only 3.005%. Luck is 5th in the league at pass attempts. So keep that in mind. 

 

I think everyone understands that Luck should have more total picks because of his high volume of throws.  If you're comfortable with that rate then I have to ask...  do you find his TD rate to be acceptable?  TD-INT ratio is something I've always liked to look at as one good measure of how a QB has been playing and Luck's has merely been average this season.

 

Why does it bother you and others that Colts fan are happy that they have Luck? I think you are smart enough to know that completion percentage and INTs are not the sole indicators of how good a QB truly is. Luck HAS slowed down a bit in the last few weeks. I don't think anyone will debate that. But your and other opposing fans' argument that Luck is this average QB because of his completion percentage and INTs is just silly. I think you know that.

 

And just so you know-- I like RGIII as a QB. I think he has a bright future.

 

I really don't think it bothers him that you guys are happy with your guy.  I think it bothers him and others that a select few of you refuse to give credit where credit is due out of blind loyalty or even straight up fear.  It's an attitude that ultimately poisons the discussion for everyone, even those being more reasonable and willing to attempt to be objective, because it causes serious polarization.

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I just can't figure out what the big deal is with the Pro Bowl?   Luck is an alternate and will probably go so what's the big deal?   The Fans voted on their selections so I guess you should have placed more votes in my opinion.  As said before one of the three will be going to the SB so Luck will get to go anyway so there is not really a problem.

 

I guess here is another thing that stats don't mean anything it's a popularity thing in my opinion.  When fans can vote that makes it by popular vote.  Now if it was just media and coaches and such then that might be another thread.

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I really don't think it bothers him that you guys are happy with your guy.  I think it bothers him and others that a select few of you refuse to give credit where credit is due out of blind loyalty or even straight up fear.  It's an attitude that ultimately poisons the discussion for everyone, even those being more reasonable and willing to attempt to be objective, because it causes serious polarization.

 

I am not sure who the "select few" are you are referring to, but I do know that there have been some outlandish remarks by Colts fans made about Luck. It is what happens on a fan forum by fans who root for that particular team. It is part of being a fan when your team is having success. However, I don't think it is unreasonable to say that Luck is having a great rookie season despite his completion percentage and 18 INTs, because he has done some great things, a few of which no other rookie QB has ever done.

 

I agree 100% with your comment that situations like these poison the conversation for everyone. I guess I have a hard time having sympathy for opposing fans on a Colts forum who may not like something a Colts fan says about Luck, RGIII, or some other player. I am by no means saying that they shouldn't be allowed to post here-- in fact I like having opposing team posters here if they are here to talk football objectively (this word is being thrown around a lot today!). But when some posters, such as the guy who had a screen name of RGIII>Luck a couple of weeks ago, come on here just to wage a crusade against all things Luck, it is obnoxious and makes it unenjoyable to read these conversations. This is a COLTS forum-- we are bound to disagree about things because we root for different teams. And your comments go both ways-- there have been Skins fans on here unwilling to give ANY credit to Luck for anything, and I sympathize much more with regular Colts posters, even if they are being unreasonable, than I do a troll who comes through wanting to argue just for the sake of arguing.

 

I am not sure why you say some Colts fans are being reasonable and merely "attempting" to be objective. I don't want to take that the wrong way, but you make it sound like we are still wrong to believe the way we do. That I do not agree with at all. Like I said, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it is still an opinion. Luck and RGIII are in completely different situations and it is very difficult to say one is "better" than the other. I think they have both had extraordinary rookie campaigns.

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 Yep. Especially if we clinch homefield throughout, we are at another level in the playoffs at home. Just ask the Bengals.

 

 

The Bengals will beat the Texans this year.

 

Schaub sucks and the Texans are lame.

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No i brought up the fact that people bring up the fools gold 2-14 team you had last year. If Peyton plays you win 10+ games. If you had a decent backup you would have won 6-7 games. People use last years 2-14 team as an argument to why Luck is so great because he flipped the Colts from worst to first. When by far what RG3 is doing in Washington taking a 20 year bottom feeder and making them relivent is more incredible.

 

A decent backup would have meant 6-7 wins ? You are so clueless. Go look up what the oppositions QB rating was vs the Colts last year. Then look at all the starters we let go that are now backups or are not even on an NFL roster. Really buddy , you are just puking  garbage all over this board.  

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You're right. Peoples definition of productivity would differ greatly.

My definition of productivity, from the QB position, would be, high TD, low INT ratio, high completion percentage, yards, and how well the QB constantly helps the team win.

 

Yes, you're right. He does not make it, by your standards, even with that last part.

I feel Andrew Lucks inconsistent, rookie play has hindered the Colts offense. His low completion rate, Interceptions and TDs thrown for the other team has drastically effected our place in the AFC.

 

In what way?  Do you feel if he had only thrown, say, 6 picks none for TD, we'd be undefeated or something along those lines?  I don't follow yet.

He has shown flashes of brilliance (last drives of the lions game, dolphins game, and second half of Packers game.) but he is largely inconsistent and since the QB position is so important, his mistakes greatly impact the Colts.

 

He's shown flashes of brilliance a lot!  And mainly at the end of games, when situations are critical.  7 game winning drives, 6 come from behind 4Q victories. Luck just doesn't make mistakes or throw interceptions during the crucial situations. He does win. And he's also not thrown an INT in the last 2 complete games. :)

Most people blame his lackluster stats on Bruce Arians offense, but then point to his high passing yard numbers which is also a product of the system.

They also blame the O-line, yet Andrew Luck probably makes them look worse then they are for holding on to the ball too long.

 

Hard to argue.  Even BA has shortened the plays up. The bunch formations have shown both horizontal and vertical aspects to it.  And often a safety valve on top to boot.  But Luck looks deep first, and often for too long.

So imo Luck definitely doesn't belong in the Pro Bowl. He also doesn't deserve rookie of the year. To me, he's played like a rookie. A rookie who shows promise.

 

 

Here's some stats.  2006 (Rookie of the Year and Pro Bowl) then Luck's #'s

 

  G GS   Rec  Comp  Att   %    Yds        TD       INT   Rsh TD

 

V.Y

 

15 13 8-5-0  184   357 51.5 2199    12   13      7     

A.L. 

 

15 15 10-5-0 325 599  54.3 4183    21       18       5

 

So others must have a different set of criteria. And it appears Andrew Luck will not get either award While Vince Young received both. so what makes people vote for Vince, and not Luck?  Curious.

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I'm not going to read seven pages of this, but only wanted to say that it will only be a matter of time until Luck is in the Pro Bowl. This year wasn't a "snub," he did great for a rookie but the Pro Bowl is a stats-driven popularity contest. Just give it another year or two, Colts fans. The guy is the real deal.

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The Bengals will beat the Texans this year.

Schaub sucks and the Texans are lame.

I wonder who the Saints will beat in the playoffs this year...oh wait. That's right. haha
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I wonder who the Saints will beat in the playoffs this year...oh wait. That's right. haha

It will be like the Brees that never blew........how I love the Saints..... :)  They have been soooooooo misunderstood for their actions....I will miss them as much as Brees missed his receivers this year.....maybe they can Vilna-cate themselves next year if they can resign Payton......I heard Bounty wanted to 'pick up' his contract...... :rock:  :applause:  :highfive:  :headspin:  :funny:  :spit:

 

:sarcasm:

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It will be like the Brees that never blew........how I love the Saints..... :) They have been soooooooo misunderstood for their actions....I will miss them as much as Brees missed his receivers this year.....maybe they can Vilna-cate themselves next year if they can resign Payton......I heard Bounty wanted to 'pick up' his contract...... :rock::applause: :highfive: :headspin::funny::spit:

:sarcasm:

Maybe they'll be in the 'hunt' again next season. Maybe Brees can 'turnover' their record. I'm sure he's pool I mean cool enough to do it.
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Qwiz and Vance are gonna be loving this, I imagine almost everyone else will be very disappointed.

 

Speaking realistically, one of Manning, Brady and Schaub is surely headed to the Super Bowl so I'd certainly not be shocked to see Luck going, he's just missed the initial roster.

 

Reggie Wayne and Robert Mathis are both going. 

As they should. Wayne (along with Avery and Allen) is the reason Luck had any success. Mathis was key to our defense but I think Redding was the difference maker for us this year.

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Such as?

Off the top of my head I can name two, but at work so you will have to look up the others for yourself. He beat Newtons rookie rushing record and was the first rookie to earn NFC player of the week in week one.

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As they should. Wayne (along with Avery and Allen) is the reason Luck had any success. Mathis was key to our defense but I think Redding was the difference maker for us this year.

any success? do ya think Stanton would have anywhere near the same success Luck has had with Wayne because if Luck were to go down thats whos next on the depth chart, Avery and rookie Allen? Avery has not lived up to full potential although he has done alright(worth bringing back) Lucks had a good year for a rookie despite drops, a pathetic excuse for an O Line and an O Coordinator that refuses to incorporate Lucks strengths into the game with any consistency. Without Luck we would be competing for draft position for the second year in a row. They have all had there part in helping as a team no doubt but without that main part (Luck) all these other parts would not be having the year they are having, Look at Waynes year last year, He had an off year compared to others, Just all my opinion not trying to come off all confrontational

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Off the top of my head I can name two, but at work so you will have to look up the others for yourself. He beat Newtons rookie rushing record and was the first rookie to earn NFC player of the week in week one.

Never mind. Wilson has a chance at TDs thrown by a rookie, not RG3.

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I believe I heard RG3 has a chance to break a rec for most TDs thrown in a rookie season.

He would have to throw 6 TD's just to tie it

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Never mind. Wilson has a chance at TDs thrown by a rookie, not RG3.

That's insane. He should get more credit than he does, Seahawks are gonna be playoff favorites.

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any success? do ya think Stanton would have anywhere near the same success Luck has had with Wayne because if Luck were to go down thats whos next on the depth chart, Avery and rookie Allen? Avery has not lived up to full potential although he has done alright(worth bringing back) Lucks had a good year for a rookie despite drops, a pathetic excuse for an O Line and an O Coordinator that refuses to incorporate Lucks strengths into the game with any consistency. Without Luck we would be competing for draft position for the second year in a row. They have all had there part in helping as a team no doubt but without that main part (Luck) all these other parts would not be having the year they are having, Look at Waynes year last year, He had an off year compared to others, Just all my opinion not trying to come off all confrontational

no offense taken. reggie had a great year. Avery did alright. all the commentators and myself seem to think Allen is the best thing we got off the draft besides Ballard (and the obvious, the #1 pick.)

 

but if you compare lucks stats with the coalitions numbers from 2011, only yards is better. completion percentage is worse. If it wasn't for his 4th quarter heroics, he'd be flat out awful.

 

agree with the system, but Luck is very much like Big Ben and that system worked for Arians and Ben. This is a passing league. Chuck it downfield and hope for the PI or completion.

 

as for the OL, (im tired of hearing how bad it is) yes Luck made up for our bad OL, but the FO knew this when they drafted him and a bunch of receiving weapons instead of an OL - its not like there was a lot of OL talent in teh draft and it takes years to develop rookie OL anyway. Arians played the cards how they were dealt and I think Grigs did a great job dealing them.

 

Lets see how Luck does next year without Arians throwing the ball long on 3rd and short. I think his accuracy goes up and so does his completion %.

 

but does he deserve a spot on the PB roster this year? No.

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ps. the most yards for rookie QB will be broken in the next 2 years. the texas 12v12 passing only league is churning out gunslingers. the NFL has changed folks. Lots of mannings records will fall in the next 15 years.

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That's insane. He should get more credit than he does, Seahawks are gonna be playoff favorites.

Absolutely

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no offense taken. reggie had a great year. Avery did alright. all the commentators and myself seem to think Allen is the best thing we got off the draft besides Ballard (and the obvious, the #1 pick.)

 

but if you compare lucks stats with the coalitions numbers from 2011, only yards is better. completion percentage is worse. If it wasn't for his 4th quarter heroics, he'd be flat out awful.

 

agree with the system, but Luck is very much like Big Ben and that system worked for Arians and Ben. This is a passing league. Chuck it downfield and hope for the PI or completion.

 

as for the OL, (im tired of hearing how bad it is) yes Luck made up for our bad OL, but the FO knew this when they drafted him and a bunch of receiving weapons instead of an OL - its not like there was a lot of OL talent in teh draft and it takes years to develop rookie OL anyway. Arians played the cards how they were dealt and I think Grigs did a great job dealing them.

 

Lets see how Luck does next year without Arians throwing the ball long on 3rd and short. I think his accuracy goes up and so does his completion %.

 

but does he deserve a spot on the PB roster this year? No.

 

Amini Silatolu

Cordy Glenn

Jonathan Martin

Jeff Allen

Peter Konz

Kelechi Osemeli

 

were all available

 

Also

 

Orlovsky-9 TD's

Painter-6 td's

Kerry Collins-2 TD's

 

Luck-21 with 1 game to go

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Lucks stats screams "I am not a pro bowler".  I would put in the kid from the Bengals, Dalton, over Luck to be honest.

That was the way I felt about Vince Young in 2006.  They're worse than Luck's. Then again, he got both RotY and Pro Bowl.  Luck, with better stats and more wins, likely gets neither.

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Why stop bringing up Stafford. They have basically the same stats yet you argue Luck got snubbed and is the greatest QB since sliced bread but yet give a qb with the same stats no respect. I know he has megatron to throw to but Stafford was a #1 pick as well its not like he wasn't highly touted. Luck being a better athlete then RG3 is laughable...And RG3 and R. Wilson are no dummies either so bringing up Andrews smarts is pretty dumb

 

 

 

Trying to help guys like you to understand the difference between Stafford and Luck. I know it's tough but maybe this will shed a bit of light. While Luck has made numerfous clutch throws into tight windows with the game on the line , here's 1 DB's opinion of a guy he plays twice a year. From Major Wright of the Bears.

 

 

 

"You've got Matthew Stafford, he's definitely having an OK season," Wright said. "He can make any throw on that field, so you have to be aware of putting pressure on him because you put a little pressure on him, he kinda folds."

 

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I am not sure why you say some Colts fans are being reasonable and merely "attempting" to be objective. I don't want to take that the wrong way, but you make it sound like we are still wrong to believe the way we do. That I do not agree with at all. Like I said, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it is still an opinion. Luck and RGIII are in completely different situations and it is very difficult to say one is "better" than the other. I think they have both had extraordinary rookie campaigns.

 

No one is truly objective :)

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I mean do you really want Luck throwing 4 ints in the pro bowl? He's better off not going :)

 

but but but in the pro bowl he would have a pro bowl OL ....  hahaha!

 

Neither Luck or RG deserve to be in the probowl!

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Amini Silatolu

Cordy Glenn

Jonathan Martin

Jeff Allen

Peter Konz

Kelechi Osemeli

 

were all available

 

Also

 

Orlovsky-9 TD's

Painter-6 td's

Kerry Collins-2 TD's

 

Luck-21 with 1 game to go

I wanted Glenn. Heck I wanted to trade the pick and gobble up as much OL/RB and DB talent as possible. So you are preaching to the choir on that one. My point is that Arians, and the weapons drafted instead of an OL was predicated by Irsay's decision. Arians simply did what he does with what was given to him. People complain that Arians throws (long) too much but relish the rookie passing yards record. They want their cake and to eat it too.

The thread was about Luck getting snubbed and I dont' think he was. I think if he deserved to go, he would be going. I see Manning, Brady, Big Ben, Schaub and even carson palmer getting votes before Luck.

As for my comparison of Luck to the Coalition...I'll share how I view the decision...

As I said back in March. You don't trade a constant for a variable. You change the variables into constants if you want success in the NFL because its all about consistency in execution.

So yes, I wanted a better Offensive Line and a better QB behind it.

Manning 2010 (having what I would consider a bad year)

Att: 679

CMP: 450

CMP%: 66.3

YDS:4700

TD:33

INT:17

Sacks:16/91

Coalition of Collins/Painter/Orlovsky

ATT:534

CMP:302

CMP%:56% (Dan was 63%)

TD:14

INT:14

Sacks 35/228

Luck 2012

Att:599

CMP: 325

CMP% 54%

YDS: 4183

TD:21

INT:40/239

If this was a line graph of QB production you would see a huge drop-off in 2011 followed by a flat line.

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the bitterness towards Rg3 is getting close to disgusting..
Hear, hear! This is exactly what needs to be said. Why do we have to hate RG3 to like Luck? It's ridiculous. Why do so many fans have to hate another player to validate their fandom? And in this case, it's bitterness toward a player who doesn't even matter to our team. They will meet only once every 4 years (barring a Superbowl matchup). There is no real rivalry here. If you are feeling insecure about Luck, belittling RG3 won't really make you feel any more confident. And you needn't feel that way because Luck has all of the attributes needed to be a great NFL QB.

To all of the RG3 lovers on this board. Why are you here trying to start fights? That is trolling. We don't need that. If that is the only reason you are here, we don't need you.

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    • I think Marvin was the best route-runner in NFL history -- a big part of that was due to his very strong chemistry with Peyton.  I don't think any QB-WR duo will ever accomplish what those 2 did in terms of statistics or in terms the timing and awareness they had together.    I know of at least 2 top-tier DBs who played when Marvin was in the league (with Randy Moss, TO, and several other WRs who brought more attention to themselves for their antics than Marv did) who said Marv was the best they ever faced -- Charles 'Peanut' Tillman and Champ Bailey (probably the best DB in the NFL that had enough of a sample size against Marvin's class of WRs in their prime to make a solid judgement).     Just look at Marvin's NFL Records -- until OBJ comes close to doing anything like this, over this amount of time, I don't think people should be debating it:   NFL records -Most receptions in a single season with 143, set in 2002 -Most receptions in a 4 season period (469), 1999–2002; 5 season period (563), 1999–2003; 7 season period (731), 1999–2005; 8 season period (826), 1999–2006; 9 season period (885), 1998–2006; 10 season period (958), 1997–2006; 11 season period (1,022), 1996–2006 -Most receiving yards in a 4 season period (6,322), 1999–2002; 5 season period (7,594), 1999–2003 -Most games in a career with at least 8 receptions (51), 9 receptions (32), 11 receptions (12), 12 receptions (8) -Most consecutive games with at least 6 receptions (16) and 9 receptions (6) -Most consecutive seasons with at least 5 touchdowns (11) – shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Terrell Owens -Most consecutive seasons with at least 6 touchdowns (11) – shared with Terrell Owens, Jerry Rice, Don Hutson -Most consecutive seasons with at least 5 touchdown receptions (11) – shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Terrell Owens -Most consecutive seasons with at least 6 touchdown receptions (11) – shared with Jerry Rice, Don Hutson -Most consecutive seasons with at least 10 touchdown receptions (8) -Most consecutive seasons with at least 11 touchdown receptions (4)-tied with Lance Alworth, Art Powell -Most consecutive seasons with at least 14 touchdown receptions (2)-tied with Jerry Rice -Most Consecutive seasons with 1,400+ receiving yards (4); 1999–2002 -Most Consecutive seasons with 100+ receptions (4); 1999–2002 -Most Consecutive seasons with 82+ receptions (8); 1999–2006 -Most games in a single season (2002) with at least 6 receptions (15), 7 receptions (12), 8 receptions (12), 9 receptions (10), 11 receptions (5) -Most games in a season with at least 13 receptions (2) in 1999 – tied with several players - Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the record for most completions between a Wide Receiver and Quarterback with 953. - Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for passing touchdowns between a WR and QB with 112. - Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for passing yards between a WR and QB with 12,756. -Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning currently hold the NFL record for completions in a season between a WR and QB with 143 in 2002. - First player to record 2 seasons of 1,600 yards receiving in NFL history, (1999 & 2002). (Torry Holt became the 2nd, (2000 & 2003) - First player to have 50+ receptions in his first 11 seasons in NFL history. (Torry Holt became the 2nd on December 27, 2009) -Most consecutive seasons of 1,000+ all-purpose yards and 10+ touchdown receptions (8), 1999–2006 -On December 18, 2006, Marvin Harrison and Indianapolis Colt teammate Reggie Wayne became the only NFL wide receiver tandem to catch 75 receptions and 1,000 yards in 3 straight seasons. The game was on Monday Night and was played against the Cincinnati Bengals. -On November 17, 2002, made his 600th career reception against the Dallas Cowboys -On October 12, 2003, made his 700th career reception against the Carolina Panthers. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 114 games -On November 8, 2004, made his 800th career reception against the Minnesota Vikings. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 131 games -On November 20, 2005, made his 900th career reception against the Cincinnati Bengals. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 149 career games -On December 10, 2006, made his 1000th reception against the Jacksonville Jaguars. And is the fastest player to do so reaching the mark in 167 career games -On December 28, 2008, made his 1,100th career reception against the Tennessee Titans in his last regular season game and his last game in Indianapolis. 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    • I hope you're kidding on this, honestly.   OBJ came in as a rookie with a most-likely future HOF QB throwing to him.  Marvin came in with Jim Harbaugh, who although is one of my all-time favorite Colts, was not much more than a mediocre NFL QB.  Sure, Marv's rookie year he had Marshall Faulk (who rushed for a whopping 587 yards with a 3.0 average YPC) -- in fact, the Colts rushed for only 1,448 yards Marv's rookie year compared to the Giants who rushed for 1,603 total yards (in a more pass-heavy league, they had 2 guys who exceeded Marshall Faulk's rushing production if you compare side by side).  Marv's supporting WR cast his rookie year included the great Sean Dawkins, the amazing Aaron Bailey, and the very feared threat Brian Stablein.  He also had Ken Dilger (a very average NFL TE), and Marcus Pollard (who had a grand total of 6 receptions in 1996).  In total, as a rookie, Marv led the Colts in receiving yards and receptions, with Sean Dawkins and Faulk being the only 2 to have >50 receptions and Dilger being the only other to have >40 receptions and Lamont Warren as the only other to have >20 receptions.  In 1997 (Marv's second year), Sean Dawkins was the only other Colt to have >50 receptions, and Faulk the only to have >40 (Faulk rushed for 1,054 yards that year and the Colts rushed for 1,727 total).  Marv's 3rd year was Faulk's best year in Indy and Faulk led the team in receptions, with only he and Marv hauling in >50 receptions.  Marv's receiving cast included Torrance Small, Jerome Pathon, and the injured EG Green.  The TEs caught a total of 55 passes (Pollard and Dilger combined).  Peyton Manning broke the record for single-season interceptions thrown and the Colts were so good they went 3-13.  In 1999, Marv and Edge were the only 2 to have over 50 receptions, and Marv became a star with a receiving corps so good the next best WR was Terrence Wilkins!   OBJ as a rookie had a team that rushed for 1,603 yards, with 2 players (Andre Williams and Rashad Jennings) who outperformed Faulk in Marv's rookie year.  OBJ had Rueben Randle haul in 71 receptions (more than any Colt in 1996), and Larry Donnell haul in 63 receptions as a tight-end (which would have been second to Marvin as a rookie).  Eli threw for 4,410 yards compared to Jim Harbaugh, Paul Justin and Kerwin Bell combining for 3,544.  Did I mention, Eli is likely headed to the HOF, while Marvin was hauling in balls from that trio?    Marv didn't have Reggie until his 6th year in the league, he didn't have a solid QB until his 4th year in the league (Peyton's second year -- Peyton was very troubled as a rookie QB).  Marv had a worse running game than OBJ's team until his 4th year in the league when Faulk had a stellar season.  Marv's best compliment as WR was either Sean Dawkins, Torrence Small, or Terrence Wilkins until his 6th year, when Reggie had a stunning 27 receptions as a rookie.  In fact, Reggie didn't have over 50 receptions and become a legitimate threat across from Marvin until Marvin's 8th year in the league.   OBJ now has Sterling Sheperd and Victor Cruz alongside him, as very legitimate threats.  The one point I hope I made clear is that your argument holds no validity.  I also would like to point out that at this point in time, there is no way to compare OBJ to Marvin as a career WR.... OBJ has had 2 very good years in this league (a much WR and QB friendly league than when Marv started).... Marv had the best 4, 5,  7, 8, 9, 10, and 11 consecutive seasons out of any WR in NFL history... when OBJ comes close to doing any of that, we can revisit the topic.
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