Luck snubbed for Pro Bowl in favour of Schaub.

[trueblueblood]

RG3 joins Dan Marino as the only 2 NFL rookie QBs to ever make the original Pro Bowl roster. That is pretty elite. In fact, it's far more rare than OROY which will have it's seventh QB to win the award this year.

Jeff Saturday made the pro bowl, does that mean he's elite? Lol I'm failing to understand why anyone would think rg3 is an elite qb. He's not even close. Cam Newton was a pro bowler last year so he's elite? The only reason rg3 made it on the original roster is the national sports media is infatuated with him.

[Gavin]

elite cant be obtained over one season, elite is done over time with consistency

 

 

Peyton Manning

Tom Brady

Brett Favre

Dan Marino

Joe Montana

Johnny Unitas

Dan Fouts

 

That is elite

[Bubba]

But RG3 made it. What a crock of crap.

Couldn't agree more. I'm not saying he isn't a great athlete, but a Pro Bowl caliber quarter back I think not. He was only chosen to sell tickets to that awful game, commercial appeal. RG3 isn't the reason the Redskins are winning games. If you have the rock with two minutes and 80 yards to go RG3 isn't the one I want to have the ball in his hand, and I don't mean because I think he is going to drive down the field and score. I'm just thankful that we have one of those quarterbacks that you want to have the ball in those situations and not just worried about their Gatorade commercial.

[Vance]

Couldn't agree more. I'm not saying he isn't a great athlete, but a Pro Bowl caliber quarter back I think not. He was only chosen to sell tickets to that awful game, commercial appeal. RG3 isn't the reason the Redskins are winning games. If you have the rock with two minutes and 80 yards to go RG3 isn't the one I want to have the ball in his hand, and I don't mean because I think he is going to drive down the field and score. I'm just thankful that we have one of those quarterbacks that you want to have the ball in those situations and not just worried about their Gatorade commercial.

 

There's just no helping some people...

[unitaswestand]

I love Luck and think he will be a top 5 QB real soon, but I do believe Schaub was the correct choice. He put up better numbers, will have more wins, and has been more consistent.

 

If we could all be honest with ourselves, if the roles were reversed to where Luck had Schaubs numbers and Schaub had Lucks numbers, if Schaub were selected, everyone on this board would call it an outrage.

[Jules]

You know I just want to say as the season goes on and I hear RG3 talk more the more I like him as a person. He really is a likable funny guy with a good personality. I can see why people find him endearing.

 

I still think Luck is the right fit for the Colts though.

 

Both these organizations are extremely fortunate to have gotten the young men they have. Same with Seattle.

[IcEWoLF]

Brady won't go to the superbowl, there you have it, Luck will be the replacement for Brady.

[FightLikeSin]

RG3's numbers are better than Wilsons despite the fact that he missed a game.

 

Yes. That's what inflated stats do for a person.

[ViriLudant]

Again...not something I would particularly brag about, especially when you take into account the competition that you have faced this year.

that, and comebacks are a tad overrated.

After all, if you come back, it means that you weren't playing particularly well before that comeback.

[FightLikeSin]

I think everyone understands that Luck should have more total picks because of his high volume of throws.  If you're comfortable with that rate then I have to ask...  do you find his TD rate to be acceptable?  TD-INT ratio is something I've always liked to look at as one good measure of how a QB has been playing and Luck's has merely been average this season.

 

For a rookie in this vertical offense? Pretty comfortable with that. The fact that we are in the playoffs is where the real comfort lies.

 

RG3 and Wilson both benefit from a couple of things Luck doesn't have. An offensive line, an elite running game to set up play action and a horizontal offense that thrives on short passes and/or bootlegs. Easy completions. That is what gives them their "awesome" inflated stats. 

 

Luck is being asked to throw the ball down the field with sub par receivers and doesn't really benefit from a threatening run game just yet. It's pretty easy to see and predict who would have the better numbers in those different situations. 

 

Not trying to discredit Wilson or RG3, but I am a little because I think and know (thanks to Kirk Cousins) that their teams can win without them. I don't think Stanton could step in and do what Luck is doing.

 

A telling stat that is often over-looked is "Air Yards". Luck is 4th in the league with 2,572 yards in the air. RG3 (22nd) - 1,618, Russel Wilson (19th) - 1,702. It's obvious why one would have quite a few more INT's if they are putting it in the air almost a thousand more yards than the other guys.

[ColtsBlueFL]

No i brought up the fact that people bring up the fools gold 2-14 team you had last year. If Peyton plays you win 10+ games. If you had a decent backup you would have won 6-7 games. People use last years 2-14 team as an argument to why Luck is so great because he flipped the Colts from worst to first. When by far what RG3 is doing in Washington taking a 20 year bottom feeder and making them relivent is more incredible.

 

It's nice to know you agree Luck is 4 to 5 wins better than a decent backup QB...   ;)

 

(just what is a decent backup QB, have the Colts ever had one?)

[YOUR GM]

I love Luck and think he will be a top 5 QB real soon, but I do believe Schaub was the correct choice. He put up better numbers, will have more wins, and has been more consistent.

 

If we could all be honest with ourselves, if the roles were reversed to where Luck had Schaubs numbers and Schaub had Lucks numbers, if Schaub were selected, everyone on this board would call it an outrage.

 

 

Agreed. Luck hasn't played his best football of late. It's kinda hard to argue when he's completing less than half his passes, more and more frequently. Schaub deserves the spot, even though I feel Luck is already the better QB

[ColtsBlueFL]

Brady won't go to the superbowl, there you have it, Luck will be the replacement for Brady.

Which fits. Vince Young went to the pro bowl with slightly worse stats than Luck, but only because he was also an alternate that slipped in when Philip Rivers didn't play due to injury, and first alternate Tom Brady declined.  Schaub isn't unworthy either...

[ColtsBlueFL]

that, and comebacks are a tad overrated.

After all, if you come back, it means that you weren't playing particularly well before that comeback.

 

You know, the other team gets paid too, and they may have devised and executed a better game plan to begin a game.  Then, the comeback kids figure it out and proceed to take them out back to the woodshed and spank them accordingly.  It's not often that you just plain stunk of your own accord, then at some brilliant moment decided maybe stinking it up isn't such a good idea. Just saying...

[thecardiacrll]

It's nice to know you agree Luck is 4 to 5 wins better than a decent backup QB...   ;)

 

(just what is a decent backup QB, have the Colts ever had one?)

Because you never needed one you had the Iron man as your QB...He is 4-5 wins better then a decent qb.I think Luck is good I just think RG3 gets hated on by certain individuals on here. They say he's only gonna last 2-3 years and they bring up flaws. Who's to say Andrew Luck wont only be around for only 2-3 seasons? Thats all I'm getting at. All the INT's and completion % should be a concern. The comebacks are great but what if they are just an aberation this season? I mean look how great Eli was at coming back last year. This year not so much and he's been terrible. Do I personally think Luck will only be around 2-3 years. HELL NO but it could happen to him just as easily as RG3.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Because you never needed one you had the Iron man as your QB...He is 4-5 wins better then a decent qb.I think Luck is good I just think RG3 gets hated on by certain individuals on here. They say he's only gonna last 2-3 years and they bring up flaws. Who's to say Andrew Luck wont only be around for only 2-3 seasons? Thats all I'm getting at. All the INT's and completion % should be a concern. The comebacks are great but what if they are just an aberation this season? I mean look how great Eli was at coming back last year. This year not so much and he's been terrible. Do I personally think Luck will only be around 2-3 years. HELL NO but it could happen to him just as easily as RG3.

 

True, P. Manning made that position a second lookout, and 3rd string moot.  As far as Robert Griifin, I've always been on his side.  i think he has a head on his shoulders that will easily allow him to shift from read option to pocket passer as defenses eventually find ways to reduce the effectiveness of Shanny's O scheme and Griffin ages, slows and tries to reduce exposure to hits.  Either or both could be injured, or go on to HOF careers; and anywhere in between  Anyone saying anything specific is purely speculating, and probably venting a little.

 

As far as Luck and this aberration, I think he is developing this year, his weakest elements.  The book on him he was a short pass / run QB.  He could't throw deep, nor could he throw fades.  BA comes in and gives him a vertical scheme.  It isn't pretty, but Luck makes it work, and I think he has learned a lot, and it will let his arm grow stronger and give him confidence in what he can and cannot do as he progresses in his QB skill development for NFL caliber proficiency. And he already knows, he has the skill and ability to win the game at crunch time.  It's proven fact.  He just needs to learn to get leads and not need that skill.    We need to address holes we have.  When we jettisoned Vet O players, and totally revamped the D schemes, it was clear we did not have all of the personnel to run those to an elite level; what with rookies, first year Colts, and Colt vets asked to play out of position in new schemes.  Everyone has performed admirably.  It is up to the players to do their best and enjoy the fruits of their labor, post season play. It is up to the F.O. to get the weak spots shored up and continue building the vision...

 

As for Giants, they are the anomaly of the league... have been for years.  from barely making it to the dance(s) to defeating Pats in SB's twice...  goofy.  But they have success.  

[CardiacColts]

We could argue all day about Schaub's qualifications over Luck for the Pro Bowl bid. Both could be considered very deserving. The AFC just so happens to have myriad top flight quarterbacks. Personally, I feel as though the whole debate is a moot point. Based on the math alone, Luck has a VERY stong chance of being assured Pro Bowl status. Let's break it down. 6 AFC teams make the playoffs, Colts, Bengals, Ravens, Broncos, Texans, and Patriots. One of those teams MUST go to the superbowl. If either the Broncos, Patriots or Texans (all top 3 seeds) win the AFC, then Luck is instantly a Pro Bowler. If we make the superbowl, would any of you actually care if Luck was a Pro Bowler? I sure wouldn't. That leaves only the Bengals and Ravens. Now albeit nothing is impossible, I find it highly improbable that either of these teams run the table against all of the aforementioned teams. That is the most cut and dry version. Then, there are extenuating circumstances to consider. What I mean by this, is that even on the off chance that the Colts, Bengals, or Ravens make the superbowl, there is a strong liklihood that one of Manning, Brady, Schaub elects not to go to the Pro Bowl for some reason or another. Again in this scenario, Luck becomes a Pro Bowler. My point is that the odds are very favorable to us right now. It would take a very interesting sequence of events for Andrew to not make the Pro Bowl. In any event, I am extremely excited with the Man we have under center and am very giddy about our prospects for the future. Roll Deep Colts Nation!

[Old Colt]

I agree. Jeff Saturday made the pro bowl, and he isn't even good enough to start on his own team anymore. That's all that needs to be said about this game lol.

Great point.... i thought they were going to cancel this game due to lack of interest....  Let's face it, Pro Bowl is a laugh... David Garrad made it a few years back because no one wanted to go......Pro Bowl is a joke.

[rdskns4eva]

Yes. That's what inflated stats do for a person.

This has to be the most uninformed post I've ever read.  So RG3 has inflated stats?  You're basically saying that all the yards/TD's/Rushing yards that he's gotten have come in garbage time or when they are loosing. 

 

Do you even WATCH Redskins games?  I thought so...

[rdskns4eva]

Jeff Saturday made the pro bowl, does that mean he's elite? Lol I'm failing to understand why anyone would think rg3 is an elite qb. He's not even close. Cam Newton was a pro bowler last year so he's elite? The only reason rg3 made it on the original roster is the national sports media is infatuated with him and he put up great numbers.

Fixed that for ya.

[thecardiacrll]

This has to be the most uninformed post I've ever read.  So RG3 has inflated stats?  You're basically saying that all the yards/TD's/Rushing yards that he's gotten have come in garbage time or when they are loosing. 

 

Do you even WATCH Redskins games?  I thought so...

Just a mis-informed fan. I also hate when people say we are running the Baylor offense. Heres a great article explaining what the redskins, 49ers seahawks run isn't a gimick offense and will be the new way offenses run in the NFL. People said the same thing about shotgun formation. This isnt the wildcat. http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2012/12/27/3792740/pistol-offense-nfl-redskins-rg3

[Gavin]

Fixed that for ya.

3,100 yards passing and 20 td's is not great numbers come on now it is a great td to interception ratio especially for a rookie which is to be expected when you attempt a pass of 21 or more yards 36 times (through 14 games according to SI.com) compare that to Lucks 87 passes of 21 or more yards through 14 games. Robert Griffin is a great talent but Luck was just on another level despite an O Coordinator refusing to aknowledge his strengths

[FightLikeSin]

This has to be the most uninformed post I've ever read.  So RG3 has inflated stats?  You're basically saying that all the yards/TD's/Rushing yards that he's gotten have come in garbage time or when they are loosing. 

 

Do you even WATCH Redskins games?  I thought so...

 

Yes, I watch Redskins games. But no...that's not what I meant by inflated stats. I'm saying he benefits from short passes and screens that get as many yards after the carry as he puts in the air, which is a fact. He doesn't have to work as hard to look good on paper is basically what I'm trying to say. Kirk Cousins showed us that you don't need to be RG3 to win or put up good numbers in Shanahan's offense. Luck has the tougher offense with less talent around him and more wins.

[YOUR GM]

RG3 is having a better year statistically, guys. Get over it. I'm a Colts fan all day but I can admit what Griffin is doing is impressive. I'm still happy with our draft pick but Griffin is playing better right now, no way around it. You can blame it on the talent, the system (a combination of both) but it is what it is. Stop trying to discredit the man. He's doing his thing right now

[rdskns4eva]

3,100 yards passing and 20 td's is not great numbers come on now it is a great td to interception ratio especially for a rookie which is to be expected when you attempt a pass of 21 or more yards 36 times (through 14 games according to SI.com) compare that to Lucks 87 passes of 21 or more yards through 14 games. Robert Griffin is a great talent but Luck was just on another level despite an O Coordinator refusing to aknowledge his strengths

 

RG3 was tops or near tops in the NFL in

 

1 QBR (ESPN and NFL)

2. Yards per attempt

3. Completion %

4. Rush Yards for QB (RG3 has more rushing yards and rushing TD than your starting tailback)

5. Rush yard per attempt

6. TD/Int Ratio (4:1!!!!)

 

This year RG3 has put up great numbers but more importantly, his play has been impactful to the Redskins success.

[FightLikeSin]

RG3 is having a better year statistically, guys. Get over it. I'm a Colts fan all day but I can admit what Griffin is doing is impressive. I'm still happy with our draft pick but Griffin is playing better right now, no way around it. You can blame it on the talent, the system (a combination of both) but it is what it is. Stop trying to discredit the man. He's doing his thing right now

 

Personally, I don't see the problem with both Luck and RG3 having good seasons. Stats are great but they rarely tell the whole story. However, If someone from the Redskins camp wants to create a Colts forum account and have a biased opinion, i'm more than happy to give them a biased response. 7 come from behind victories and a playoff berth for this Colts team is nothing to dismiss and Luck has had the most to do with it. 

 

If we are basing it purely off of stats...fine. Gabbert, Foles, Ponder, Fitzpatrick, Palmer and co. are whipping Luck in the QB Rating. Are they playing better than Luck? I'd say they are most decidedly not. But hey...it's just my opinion.

[rdskns4eva]

Yes, I watch Redskins games. But no...that's not what I meant by inflated stats. I'm saying he benefits from short passes and screens that get as many yards after the carry as he puts in the air, which is a fact. He doesn't have to work as hard to look good on paper is basically what I'm trying to say. Kirk Cousins showed us that you don't need to be RG3 to win or put up good numbers in Shanahan's offense. Luck has the tougher offense with less talent around him and more wins.

 

IHaving a WR make plays after the catch does not mean someone has inflated stats.  Using this argument, Montana and Young had inflated stats and so does Tom Brady who benefits from short passes more than RG3.  This has been pointed out in many articles.

 

And this excuse about tougher offense is getting old.  Play within the system.  If he is throwing so many pics because the offense is tough, or he is trying to play outside the system to make a play, maybe they need to dumb it down for him.  Not saying he's dumb because obviously he isnt.

 

Edit:  Simplify is a better word.  Maybe they need to simplify the offense for Luck if he is throwing all the picks.

[FightLikeSin]

IHaving a WR make plays after the catch does not mean someone has inflated stats.  Using this argument, Montana and Young had inflated stats and so does Tom Brady who benefits from short passes more than RG3.  This has been pointed out in many articles.

 

And this excuse about tougher offense is getting old.  Play within the system.  If he is throwing so many pics because the offense is tough, or he is trying to play outside the system to make a play, maybe they need to dumb it down for him.  Not saying he's dumb because obviously he isnt.

 

Edit:  Simplify is a better word.  Maybe they need to simplify the offense for Luck if he is throwing all the picks.

 

Actually that's exactly what inflated stats has been historically portrayed as. Take it as you will. I had a pretty good completion percentage in high school...I mean I only passed about 12-15 times in a game and most of them were screens or a HB choice but it looked good on paper. <----inflated stats. 

 

And you are absolutely right about "dumbing it down". I dislike the Arians offense because it is so vertical. A read/option scheme isn't what I think would be best for the Colts but something along the Pistol offense that can throw off timing for the defense could be nice. Our boy is pretty good at play action.  

[Matugi]

So Griffin's stats are inflated but not Luck's "record-setting" season in terms of passing yards?

[rdskns4eva]

So Griffin's stats are inflated but not Luck's "record-setting" season in terms of passing yards?

Apparetnly not, even though he has thrown the ball 600 times lol.

[Superman]

that, and comebacks are a tad overrated.

After all, if you come back, it means that you weren't playing particularly well before that comeback.

 

I can't stand that line of reasoning. It's flimsy and often inaccurate.

[Superman]

Apparetnly not, even though he has thrown the ball 600 times lol.

 

The more you throw it, the more yards you get. Sure, it's a volume stat (or can be), so you look at adjusted yards/attempt. But it's kind of silly to equate more yards due to more attempts to an "inflated stat." I don't agree that Griffin's stats are "inflated" either, but the difference between YAC and total yardage is worthy of consideration, if you're being honest.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Edit:  Simplify is a better word.  Maybe they need to simplify the offense for Luck if he is throwing all the picks.

 

Over the last few games, they have added horizontal components to go with the vertical routes.  They have added the safety valve.  They have called approximately 65 - 70% short passes, and in the last two games, Luck has no fumbles lost nor interceptions thrown.  And yet his completion percentage has never been lower. Hmmmm.....

[SilentHill]

Woah another thread derailed into Luck VS RGIII... I think I'll just walk over here.....

[Matugi]

Woah another thread derailed into Luck VS RGIII... I think I'll just walk over here.....

Well blame the second post of the thread lol

[House]

that, and comebacks are a tad overrated.

After all, if you come back, it means that you weren't playing particularly well before that comeback.

That's an over generalization, and simply just not true in plenty of situations.

[indy1888]

That's an over generalization, and simply just not true in plenty of situations.

I think Peyton had the NFL record for most comebacks in a season before Luck tied it. He did it twice i think. Of course that must mean that Manning was just a terrible player who played a ton of awful games and put his team in horrible spots all the time. ;)

[John Dee]

You can look at it that way...or you can also say that

 

A QB who had the easiest schedule in the league and had zero expectations as a rookie leading the worst team in the NFL vs

 

A QB that had a ton of expectations this year leading his team to one of the best records in the NFL, a division title and good stats.

 

Matt Schaub completed almost 65% of his passes this year.  He's only thrown 10 picks...why are people downplaying his production?  He's got some good numbers this year.  Some people on this board act like he is having one of the worst seasons for a quarterback.

 

 

Ok, I'm back...   

 

From a Houston talking head.....   John McClain....    "With M Schaub in the lineup going back 3 1/2 games SCHAUB has led Houston to 2 TD's."      All Pro?

 

here is the interview....

http://www.1070thefan.com/podcast/Episodes.aspx?PID=2161

[John Dee]

P Manning is the "BENCHMARK" for comeback wins...   He is the Alpha male of all time in that category.

I think Peyton had the NFL record for most comebacks in a season before Luck tied it. He did it twice i think. Of course that must mean that Manning was just a terrible player who played a ton of awful games and put his team in horrible spots all the time. ;)

[John Dee]

Apparetnly not, even though he has thrown the ball 600 times lol.

 

If you watch Colt football you will know the volume of att's IS NOT A BILL B TYPE SITUATION.

 

Indy has thrown the ball because they CANNOT RUN IT, and they were behind or even.