A different look at Bill Polian (from Peter King)

[NewColtsFan]

In King's weekly Monday Morning QB column (always highly recommended!) on page 4 of his column, he's got a good long section about Polian, who King just spent time with.

I think both those who Love the guy and those who Hate the guy will find the write-up interesting....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/08/12/mmqb/3.html

[gspdx]

Interesting. I still think Bill Polian did great things for the Colts. It got a little old and I think the biggest problem was trying to turn things over to his kid, who isn't Bill Polian. We can't all do what daddy did.

[Nobody]

Interesting. I still think Bill Polian did great things for the Colts. It got a little old and I think the biggest problem was trying to turn things over to his kid, who isn't Bill Polian. We can't all do what daddy did.

So many first round picks wasted... And yet we still seemed to pull gems out of everywhere else in the draft.

[pacolts56]

Interesting. I still think Bill Polian did great things for the Colts. It got a little old and I think the biggest problem was trying to turn things over to his kid, who isn't Bill Polian. We can't all do what daddy did.

^^ This ^^

[BOTT]

maybe it's just me, but i consistently roll my eyes when i read peter king. other than other people's opinions, what does he bring to the table?

[FireJimCaldwell]

maybe it's just me, but i consistently roll my eyes when i read peter king. other than other people's opinions, what does he bring to the table?

Personally, I like how he organizes his information. To me his MMQB is a weekly must read. It's usually a decent summary of the weeks games and usually has an interesting tidbit or two.

On TV it's a different story..

[Superman]

On TV it's a different story..

Radio as well.

[BOTT]

Personally, I like how he organizes his information. To me his MMQB is a weekly must read. It's usually a decent summary of the weeks games and usually has an interesting tidbit or two.

On TV it's a different story..

i like about 35% of his mmqb column....the rest i am just skimming

[FireJimCaldwell]

Radio as well.

Yeah i would agree for the most part. I haven't had SIRIUS in a couple of years, but it is odd how some can be different on TV/Radio.. On TV I don't care for Shannon Sharpe, but I used to like him okay on NFL Radio.

[FireJimCaldwell]

i like about 35% of his mmqb column....the rest i am just skimming

I do my share of skimming, but to me it's the only must read that I know of during the season on a weekly basis. If there are others that anyone feels are like that, then please share.

[Tark The Shark]

Even after reading this, my position on Polian doesn't change. He is a very smart guy and knows how to find late round gems. But time and time again his resume was filled with successful regular season teams but could never win the Super Bowl, except for the 2006 Colts.

I like Polian as a person and I would do anything to just sit down with him and just talk football. But he wouldn't be my GM, he would certainly be an advisor.

[Fatboyslim11]

Polian was/is/will be an overrated, egomaniacal windbag. It was one of the happiest days during the 40+ years of me following the Colts when Irsay fired this jerk and his clueless son.

[GoColts8818]

Polian was/is/will be an overrated, egomaniacal windbag. It was one of the happiest days during the 40+ years of me following the Colts when Irsay fired this jerk and his clueless son.

Funny one of my happiest days as a colts fan was seeing the team he built lift the Lombardi trophy. Your right though he had nothing to do with that he just got lucky and road Peyton's coat tails except of course the years we didn't win then it was all his fault.

[Fatboyslim11]

Funny one of my happiest days as a colts fan was seeing the team he built lift the Lombardi trophy. Your right though he had nothing to do with that he just got lucky and road Peyton's coat tails except of course the years we didn't win then it was all his fault.

It wasn't so funny when the end result of his "genius" resulted in the team having the worst head coach in recent NFL history, the most talentless special teams in decades, no viable backup QB, year after year of playoff failures despite good to very good regular seasons with several no.1 seeds, small untalented players and a culture of fear and intimindation within the building. To top it off, he almost ruined the organization with nepotism by bringing in his clueless son as the GM.

[GoColts8818]

It wasn't so funny when the end result of his "genius" resulted in the team having the worst head coach in recent NFL history, the most talentless special teams in decades, no viable backup QB, year after year of playoff failures despite good to very good regular seasons with several no.1 seeds, small untalented players and a culture of fear and intimindation within the building. To top it off, he almost ruined the organization with nepotism by bringing in his clueless son as the GM.

I didn't say it was funny. The star player got hurt. The guy the team was built around. Again like I said to someone else that is like taking the engine out of a car and then complaining the car wont start. With that said up till Manning got hurt it's pretty hard to argue with the result Polian did produce and yes as much as it kills people to admit this Polian had a hand in the unprecedented success the Colts had while he was here. Look at Polian's track record he twice took two teams that had ben NFL laughing stalks and built them into NFL Powerhouses that won at levels the league had never seen before and also gave an expansion team the best start one haw ever seen in NFL history. I don't care how much people may not like the man but his track record proves he was good at his job. Did he have his faults? Clearly. Did it fall apart at the end? Yes which is why he lost his job. With that said this whole idea of trying to rewrite history that Polian was holding us back the whole time he was here and we only won because of Peyton Manning and anytime we lost it was all Polian's fault gets old after a while. Yes I know he only has one Super Bowl ring but how many other GMs of the Indianapolis Colts can say they built at team that won even that many? Winning Super Bowls are a hard thing to do it's not like it's easy and guess what it's not all Polian's fault that that the team he built to win 12 or so games every year over good teams couldn't beat those same good teams in he playoffs. The players have to share some weight in that as well.

After all last time I checked in the Super Bowl it's not Polian who dropped what was probably a touchdown over the middle, it's not Polian who didn't cover an onside kick, it's not Polian who threw a pick six, it's not Polian who couldn't be in the same zip code as Drew Brees. It wasn't Polian who slept walk for 3 1/2 quarters of a game vs. the Steelers in the playoffs. It wasn't Polian who played hot potato with a pass on the goal-line vs. the Chargers and then couldn't stop their back up QB or back up RB. That was all players and yes you can say well Polian put those players there but all those players won 12 ore more games that season which tells me the talent was there they just didn't preform when it counted the most and yes they share some of the blame and it's not just all Polian's fault. Also as for the head coaching thing, guess what Dungy, Peyton and Irsay all signed off on Caldwell. Had Irsay wanted too he could have dumped Caldwell at any point he kept him even longer than he kept Polian so again while Polian shares some of the blame for that it's not all his fault either. Again that's not to say Polian doesn't share in the blame he does but the key word is share not everything bad to happen to the Colts while he was GM is alk his fault and it's a joke that people keep trying to paint it that way yet refuse to give him any credit for anything good that happened while he was here. If you are going to say he has to take all the blame then you have to give him all the credit when something good happens other wise you are just using double standards.

[21isSuperman]

I've always liked Polian. I certainly didn't appreciate how he wanted Tryon off the team and started telling the defensive coordinator what to do. But the man knows how to draft, how to build winners, and his football IQ and ability to understand players is paralleled by only a few. It's unfortunate how he was released here, but it was admirable to see him stand up for his son. But as was mentioned in the "If you were in charge in Cleveland" thread, he could be hired there. I wouldn't be surprised if he had another job soon. Without a doubt, he is one of the greatest football executives ever.

[lollygagger8]

Sounds like it took Polian getting fired to show his "softer" side, which who knows, could translate into a job offer. If he can avoid trying to hand over the reigns to Chrissy, he might do a good job.

[dgambill]

Its like people think you have to hate the old regime to like the new Colts around here. Peyton who? Dungy was too soft. Polian was terrible!

I was fine moving on from Bill because clearly his son didn't have the same talents but he built a very successful team and gave us numerous numerous chances to win. We possibly could have drafted tons of guys but would they still had the same success in our system? Who knows? If some didn't get injured...some plays changed...lots of things...point was we were a pillar of the league along with the Patriots and Steelers for YEARS. Teams tried to build themselves after us and we were always looked at as a contender.

Not only that but they forget he helped build one of the greatest dynasties in the early 90s as well in Buffalo. Was it his fault they lost 4 straight SBs? That he took an expansion team in the Panthers in a couple years and put them in the playoffs? Man was great. Things fell apart and he obviously had given up total control....so him leaving was appropriately timed...but when exactly would you have gotten rid of him? When we were winning all those division titles and playing New England for the Conference Championships? After we won SB in 2006. Perhaps it was after we lost SB 2009. Perhaps after we lost in the playoffs in 2010? Fact was 2011 was a perfect storm of BAD...so we rebuilt. Don't see why we have to tear down our past 15 years of success to justify this team? Makes me sick. Perhaps people need to remember what we were before Bill got here? You remember what the Colts have been since coming to Indy. 84-97 we were the laughing stock of the league until capt comback and Marshall gave us a few good playoff runs. Lets be honest we drafted Jeff George #1, Steve Emtman #1, Quentin Coryatt #2, Jon Hand #4, Trev Alberts #5, Duane Bickett #5, Leonard Coleman #8, Ellis Johnson #15, Sean Dawkins #16, Ron Solt #19. Totally screwed up the John Elway thing....look what we got in that deal. Sure we picked Andre Rison and Cornelius Bennett only to get rid of them. Fact is...we were a mess and it wasn't just PM that made everything better. The right coaches helped (Dungy) and front office (Polian). I would take Polian a million times over what we had....its not even close and to hear you say that about him...just tells me you are a hater. We all know Bill was a jerk...IDK if our new guys are a jerk too...I may not respect them as far as them personally but coaching/team building....I will love them. I will take 15 years basically like the last right now...today...over the unknown.

[southwest1]

Sounds like it took Polian getting fired to show his "softer" side, which who knows, could translate into a job offer. If he can avoid trying to hand over the reigns to Chrissy, he might do a good job.

On Colts.com, BrentMc11, CP11, Lollygager, & I debated the Pollian question nearly to the level of a PH.D. dissertation. Our overall conclusion, family nepotism and blind loyalty to his son Chris lead to Bill's direct dismissal from INDY. That and the fact that Chris had no idea how to critique and separate real NFL prospects from pathetic excuses for talent, not to mention paying veterans players too much money for diminishing production on the field. For someone who treated the INDY media with a frosty disposition whenever they questioned a move Bill made, it really surprised me how quickly he became a member of the media without even flinching. I get it. The money is great, the work week is short, and the stress level is much lower as a NFL analyst vs a GM.

When it comes to evaluating his NFL intellectual and prowess, Bill Pollian is very savvy and sharp. Personally, I feel that Bill rides on his Buffalo Bills coat tails too much. Perhaps, this is a media obsession not of his own control the 4 consecutive SB appearances and the glory that achievement is given. When people are asked to scruntinize Bill's achievements, I wish it would be broken down into corresponding years of tenure there: The Buffalo Years, the Carolina Years, & the INDY years myself.

[funktacious2]

I never hated him.

[smittywerb]

The star player got hurt. The guy the team was built around.

That was my main problem with Polian. I disagree with building a team AROUND a player but I agree with building a team FOR a player.

[wordofmouth]

It's funny how Polian brings out the venom in people.

The fact of the matter is if he never came to the Colts about half of the people who post here would not care about the Colts at all. Peyton or no Peyton.

He made mistakes as everyone does, he paid the price for having great records year in and year out which makes the margin of error the much smaller when it comes to drafting, but in the end his downfall was in his insistance to turn things over to his son. As a father I can understand, and sometimes it works, but there are a finite amount guys who can excell in this business ( and an infinite amount of posters who think they could) and unfortunately Chris doesn't seem to be one of them.

[Fatboyslim11]

On Colts.com, BrentMc11, CP11, Lollygager, & I debated the Pollian question nearly to the level of a PH.D. dissertation. Our overall conclusion, family nepotism and blind loyalty to his son Chris lead to Bill's direct dismissal from INDY. That and the fact that Chris had no idea how to critique and separate real NFL prospects from pathetic excuses for talent, not to mention paying veterans players too much money for diminishing production on the field. For someone who treated the INDY media with a frosty disposition whenever they questioned a move Bill made, it really surprised me how quickly he became a member of the media without even flinching. I get it. The money is great, the work week is short, and the stress level is much lower as a NFL analyst vs a GM.

When it comes to evaluating his NFL intellectual and prowess, Bill Pollian is very savvy and sharp. Personally, I feel that Bill rides on his Buffalo Bills coat tails too much. Perhaps, this is a media obsession not of his own control the 4 consecutive SB appearances and the glory that achievement is given. When people are asked to scruntinize Bill's achievements, I wish it would be broken down into corresponding years of tenure there: The Buffalo Years, the Carolina Years, & the INDY years myself.

An interesting viewpoint. It ts never a question of Polian being a good GM at the end of the day. My issue(s) with Polian has been stated many times on this and other venues. It stills confounds me that some of Polians biggest defenders gloss over his most critical failings - such as how can he be credited as the primary builder of successful teams in the regular seaso yet has no blame when his teams fail to win in the playoffs (oftentimes with the best so called talent of all the teams) yet is given pass after pass when they choke. The teams he was in charge of as GM, don't forget did win championships before him - look at Buffalo in the early sixties and the Colts won world championships in the fifties, sixties and seventies all prior to his arrival. Carolina was given assets (extra draft choices, access to players off existing clubs rosters, larger salary cap to sign players, extra time to train players, etc) so Polian had an unprecedented advantage over all previous expansion teams. Yet they still lost in the playoffs. No need to rehash the issues with him pushing hard for his son Chris for Colts GM - our 2-14 record last year and the departures of most of the previous starters is the result of that debacle. And let's not forget that Polian has been fired by all three of his previous teams.

[IndyTrav]

Wasn't he fired after a SB yr in Buffalo? The 3rd one?

[chad72]

I dont think Bill's son follows him if Bill ends up as GM somewhere next year.

[Superman]

An interesting viewpoint. It ts never a question of Polian being a good GM at the end of the day. My issue(s) with Polian has been stated many times on this and other venues. It stills confounds me that some of Polians biggest defenders gloss over his most critical failings - such as how can he be credited as the primary builder of successful teams in the regular seaso yet has no blame when his teams fail to win in the playoffs (oftentimes with the best so called talent of all the teams) yet is given pass after pass when they choke. The teams he was in charge of as GM, don't forget did win championships before him - look at Buffalo in the early sixties and the Colts won world championships in the fifties, sixties and seventies all prior to his arrival. Carolina was given assets (extra draft choices, access to players off existing clubs rosters, larger salary cap to sign players, extra time to train players, etc) so Polian had an unprecedented advantage over all previous expansion teams. Yet they still lost in the playoffs. No need to rehash the issues with him pushing hard for his son Chris for Colts GM - our 2-14 record last year and the departures of most of the previous starters is the result of that debacle. And let's not forget that Polian has been fired by all three of his previous teams.

So if you owned a team, and you were making a list of candidates for GM, would Polian be on the list? You suggest that you believe he is (or maybe, was) a good GM. Even including the failures of his teams in the postseason (we've discussed those failures and his role in those failures at length; I think we know each other's point of view there), what kind of grade does he get? Is it good enough to even consider him?

[dgambill]

On Colts.com, BrentMc11, CP11, Lollygager, & I debated the Pollian question nearly to the level of a PH.D. dissertation. Our overall conclusion, family nepotism and blind loyalty to his son Chris lead to Bill's direct dismissal from INDY. That and the fact that Chris had no idea how to critique and separate real NFL prospects from pathetic excuses for talent, not to mention paying veterans players too much money for diminishing production on the field. For someone who treated the INDY media with a frosty disposition whenever they questioned a move Bill made, it really surprised me how quickly he became a member of the media without even flinching. I get it. The money is great, the work week is short, and the stress level is much lower as a NFL analyst vs a GM.

When it comes to evaluating his NFL intellectual and prowess, Bill Pollian is very savvy and sharp. Personally, I feel that Bill rides on his Buffalo Bills coat tails too much. Perhaps, this is a media obsession not of his own control the 4 consecutive SB appearances and the glory that achievement is given. When people are asked to scruntinize Bill's achievements, I wish it would be broken down into corresponding years of tenure there: The Buffalo Years, the Carolina Years, & the INDY years myself.

An interesting viewpoint. It ts never a question of Polian being a good GM at the end of the day. My issue(s) with Polian has been stated many times on this and other venues. It stills confounds me that some of Polians biggest defenders gloss over his most critical failings - such as how can he be credited as the primary builder of successful teams in the regular seaso yet has no blame when his teams fail to win in the playoffs (oftentimes with the best so called talent of all the teams) yet is given pass after pass when they choke. The teams he was in charge of as GM, don't forget did win championships before him - look at Buffalo in the early sixties and the Colts won world championships in the fifties, sixties and seventies all prior to his arrival. Carolina was given assets (extra draft choices, access to players off existing clubs rosters, larger salary cap to sign players, extra time to train players, etc) so Polian had an unprecedented advantage over all previous expansion teams. Yet they still lost in the playoffs. No need to rehash the issues with him pushing hard for his son Chris for Colts GM - our 2-14 record last year and the departures of most of the previous starters is the result of that debacle. And let's not forget that Polian has been fired by all three of his previous teams.

Fact is he was widely successful in all his stops. Thats what most people don't understand. He has been the architecture of some of the most successful and greatest teams during his times. Indeed the teams he built in Buffalo were perhaps even better than what he created here but every circumstance is difference. He put together a team here that went the last decade as the winningst football team of the decade. That is pretty spectacular. That is what kept him on when he stepped aside for Chris. Chris was his downfall and for good reason. Bill didn't choose the schemes. He didn't pick what defense or offense we would have. The coaches decided that. The success of Manning dictated that we draft players to his strengths. We drafted defensive players to Dungy's strengths. It isn't like he favored these kinds of players in Buffalo or Carolina....he drafted all kinds of successful players...based on the teams identity. Seriously....what would be the point of say drafting say Revis to only have him play 10 yards off in zone coverage? What is the use of drafting say a lb like Willis or Lewis and then drop them 15 yards back in a deep center zone where they couldn't utilize their strength, power, and quickness to read running backs. Whats the point of drafting say Randy Moss when your qb likes wrs that run perfectly timed and crisp routes to be where he expects them...not just big tall guys to throw it up to. Fact is he built the team as the team dictated he built it....and it was EXTREMELY successful. Not saying he was the best or greatest ever but how many SBs have the greatest defense of the last decade won and played in (Baltimore)...1....how many have the Jets with Revis...or Dallas with all their studs....or the Bears with their defenses...or lots of teams. Fact is there were basically only 2 teams more successful than us during his tenure with us (as far as SB). New England and Pittsburgh. We had our shot at both...and a couple times with superior teams we lost to them. 2003 and 2005 we were undoubtedly the most talented team in the league...we blew it...Bill didn't....and you know what...he didn't blow it up...he stayed the course...got us to two more SBs. He didn't play a down so he doesn't deserve all the credit or the blame but he gave us the guys with the potential to win...and he did HIS job. He can't do any more than he did. Second guess all you want we were LUCKY to have him. Injuries and some age killed the run....2010 I think we had another SB caliber roster but injuries decimated us. Then doomsday with Peyton in 2011 and thats all she wrote. Guy is a football legend and a sure fire HOF inductee at some point you watch. He should have never let Chris run things and it was indeed time for a change so I have no hard feelings but some people are sooo ungrateful for the contributions of others to their Colts. I just gave you the history we had in the 80's and 90s before he got here but thats ok. Doesn't mean with him gone we can't be successful again but man...he did a good job doing something no other GM could do during his time here and people hate on him. Not all but several....like he is the reason for that one bad year..and him alone. People crying over 1 bad year after over a decade of the most successful football we probably will ever see.

[Fatboyslim11]

So if you owned a team, and you were making a list of candidates for GM, would Polian be on the list? You suggest that you believe he is (or maybe, was) a good GM. Even including the failures of his teams in the postseason (we've discussed those failures and his role in those failures at length; I think we know each other's point of view there), what kind of grade does he get? Is it good enough to even consider him?

If I were an NFL owner (and I may be after Wednesday night Poweball drawing) just starting an NFL team, say in Los Angeles, my list of GM candidates would NOT include Polian. Why? I don't believe he can put together and manage and integrate a team - front office, HC and the type of players that could get to and consistently go deep and win championships. I believe his talent evaluation skills have detorated over the years, his interpersonal skills are subpar and he would surround himself with yes men as opposed to purely objective, knowledgeable football people. I might use him along with others as advisors and an occasional sounding board but that would be the extent of his role.

[BOTT]

That was my main problem with Polian. I disagree with building a team AROUND a player but I agree with building a team FOR a player.

the whole "well, the team was built around peyton" is a * argument. the colts stunk because his drafting went into the tank, he had a disdain for free agencey, and hired mediocre coaches.

[Superman]

If I were an NFL owner (and I may be after Wednesday night Poweball drawing) just starting an NFL team, say in Los Angeles, my list of GM candidates would NOT include Polian. Why? I don't believe he can put together and manage and integrate a team - front office, HC and the type of players that could get to and consistently go deep and win championships. I believe his talent evaluation skills have detorated over the years, his interpersonal skills are subpar and he would surround himself with yes men as opposed to purely objective, knowledgeable football people. I might use him along with others as advisors and an occasional sounding board but that would be the extent of his role.

I agree with the bolded. He's not the person that's going to make everyone in the room feel rosy and inspired, not from the way his tenure has ended everywhere he's been. And the way he promoted his son into the GM role and supported Caldwell as the new coach is evidence that he likes "yes men."

I don't agree with the idea that he can't put together a team that can consistently go deep and win championships. We've discussed that before. Not saying Polian couldn't have done more to strengthen the weak spots on our teams that might have helped us win more in the postseason, but I do think that the shortcomings had more to do with lack of execution than with shortcomings on the roster. Again, we've done this before. I'm just expressing my opinion so I'm on the record in this conversation.

I would consider him as my GM, with a few caveats: 1) I would hire a president of football operations that would work in cooperation with Polian as the GM, someone that's not loyal to him and would challenge him, someone that isn't going to undermine him but wouldn't feel like his job depends on co-signing everything Polian does, not a subordinate. 2) Polian's tenure would be limited to five years. 3) His sons are not going to be named his successors; they can work for him in specific roles, but not as GM-in-training. 4) He would not have autonomy over hiring a head coach or hiring, firing, demoting or otherwise organizing the coaching staff. In short, I wouldn't allow Polian to take over the organization the way he did with the Colts over the course of 13 years. That's the primary reason I'm limiting his tenure, that and his age.

These conditions are only specific to Polian. I'm not saying I'd be going out of my way to hire him. Honestly, I think there are plenty really good candidates for GM jobs in the league right now without having to retread with a nearly 70 year old man, regardless of how good of a GM he once was. I'm not calling Bill Parcells or Jimmy Johnson, either. I liked Marc Ross as a potential candidate for the Colts this year.

All I'm saying is that, even though the wheels fell off here, with Polian making several bad decisions and alienating large portions of the local media and fanbase, he still has shown himself to be a good personnel man, and he knows the league and the salary cap. I think, at the very least, he'd be a good guy to have in the room. I might even form an exploratory committee with him on it, tasked to find two or three final candidates for the job. I might keep him around as a consultant. I definitely think he knows his stuff, but he's a huge personality, and that becomes a problem. Not just with interpersonal relationships, but like you said, eventually the only people in the room are people loyal to him, and that doesn't lend itself to a healthy exchange of ideas. It lends itself to "yes men."

[Fatboyslim11]

Fact is he was widely successful in all his stops. Thats what most people don't understand. He has been the architecture of some of the most successful and greatest teams during his times. Indeed the teams he built in Buffalo were perhaps even better than what he created here but every circumstance is difference. He put together a team here that went the last decade as the winningst football team of the decade. That is pretty spectacular. That is what kept him on when he stepped aside for Chris. Chris was his downfall and for good reason. Bill didn't choose the schemes. He didn't pick what defense or offense we would have. The coaches decided that. The success of Manning dictated that we draft players to his strengths. We drafted defensive players to Dungy's strengths. It isn't like he favored these kinds of players in Buffalo or Carolina....he drafted all kinds of successful players...based on the teams identity. Seriously....what would be the point of say drafting say Revis to only have him play 10 yards off in zone coverage? What is the use of drafting say a lb like Willis or Lewis and then drop them 15 yards back in a deep center zone where they couldn't utilize their strength, power, and quickness to read running backs. Whats the point of drafting say Randy Moss when your qb likes wrs that run perfectly timed and crisp routes to be where he expects them...not just big tall guys to throw it up to. Fact is he built the team as the team dictated he built it....and it was EXTREMELY successful. Not saying he was the best or greatest ever but how many SBs have the greatest defense of the last decade won and played in (Baltimore)...1....how many have the Jets with Revis...or Dallas with all their studs....or the Bears with their defenses...or lots of teams. Fact is there were basically only 2 teams more successful than us during his tenure with us (as far as SB). New England and Pittsburgh. We had our shot at both...and a couple times with superior teams we lost to them. 2003 and 2005 we were undoubtedly the most talented team in the league...we blew it...Bill didn't....and you know what...he didn't blow it up...he stayed the course...got us to two more SBs. He didn't play a down so he doesn't deserve all the credit or the blame but he gave us the guys with the potential to win...and he did HIS job. He can't do any more than he did. Second guess all you want we were LUCKY to have him. Injuries and some age killed the run....2010 I think we had another SB caliber roster but injuries decimated us. Then doomsday with Peyton in 2011 and thats all she wrote. Guy is a football legend and a sure fire HOF inductee at some point you watch. He should have never let Chris run things and it was indeed time for a change so I have no hard feelings but some people are sooo ungrateful for the contributions of others to their Colts. I just gave you the history we had in the 80's and 90s before he got here but thats ok. Doesn't mean with him gone we can't be successful again but man...he did a good job doing something no other GM could do during his time here and people hate on him. Not all but several....like he is the reason for that one bad year..and him alone. People crying over 1 bad year after over a decade of the most successful football we probably will ever see.

Whew! What a long post and I enjoyed reading your perspective. I view our limited, regular season successes under Polian as mixed. One should never view anything in a vacuum and that is true for the Colts as well. Our "success" during the Polian era can be defined by who is defining "success". If you compare Colts 1984 to 1997 (Indy era, pre Polian) and Colts 1998 to 2011 (Polian era) it is no comparison because during those pre Polian Indy era the team was consistently bad. By comparison there was a huge in improvement during Polian tenure. However in overall comparison to other teams fro 1998 to 2011, the Colts and Polian fall short in a lot of areas. We only won one SB - the ultimate measure of success or failure. We had the one of the best regular season winning percentage during this era but we were only a .500 team in the playoffs. Several teams have done better in the playoffs despite lesser regular seasons records (Pittsburgh, NY Giants, Patriots).

[Superman]

Whew! What a long post and I enjoyed reading your perspective. I view our limited, regular season successes under Polian as mixed. One should never view anything in a vacuum and that is true for the Colts as well. Our "success" during the Polian era can be defined by who is defining "success". If you compare Colts 1984 to 1997 (Indy era, pre Polian) and Colts 1998 to 2011 (Polian era) it is no comparison because during those pre Polian Indy era the team was consistently bad. By comparison there was a huge in improvement during Polian tenure. However in overall comparison to other teams fro 1998 to 2011, the Colts and Polian fall short in a lot of areas. We only won one SB - the ultimate measure of success or failure. We had the one of the best regular season winning percentage during this era but we were only a .500 team in the playoffs. Several teams have done better in the playoffs despite lesser regular seasons records (Pittsburgh, NY Giants, Patriots).

To the bolded, very true. That, I think, is the source of our difference of opinion. When grading the GM, you put more weight on postseason outcomes than I do. Not that I don't think what happens in the postseason is important; it obviously is. I just think, particularly with Polian's teams, that they were good enough to win more in the postseason, and the shortcomings were more about execution than about talent. For instance, I think the 2005 team was more talented than the 2006 team, and I blame the poor execution for the loss, not the makeup of the team. I'd be more critical of how the 2006 team was comprised than the 2005 team, but we know what happened.

The Steelers, Giants and Patriots all were very impressive over the last several seasons. I don't think that makes the Colts run less impressive. There are several years we could have and should have done more, could have been better defensively, could have been stronger in the trenches, etc. But I don't think the games were lost because of those things only.

[southwest1]

I would consider him as my GM, with a few caveats: 1) I would hire a president of football operations that would work in cooperation with Polian as the GM, someone that's not loyal to him and would challenge him, someone that isn't going to undermine him but wouldn't feel like his job depends on co-signing everything Polian does, not a subordinate. 2) Polian's tenure would be limited to five years. 3) His sons are not going to be named his successors; they can work for him in specific roles, but not as GM-in-training. 4) He would not have autonomy over hiring a head coach or hiring, firing, demoting or otherwise organizing the coaching staff. In short, I wouldn't allow Polian to take over the organization the way he did with the Colts over the course of 13 years. That's the primary reason I'm limiting his tenure, that and his age.

I don't envision Bill Polian accepting any GM position without almost complete independence. The only one he would agree to answer to would be the owner who signs his paycheck. No, family business here. No father/son working relationships would be permitted to work in the same organizational Dept. either.

These conditions are only specific to Polian. I'm not saying I'd be going out of my way to hire him. Honestly, I think there are plenty really good candidates for GM jobs in the league right now without having to retread with a nearly 70 year old man, regardless of how good of a GM he once was. I'm not calling Bill Parcells or Jimmy Johnson, either. I liked Marc Ross as a potential candidate for the Colts this year.

Personally, I would aggressively go after Jerry Reese from the NY Giants if I was in the market for a competitive GM who is a master at bringing in capable pieces to fill any NFL o-line and d-line.

All I'm saying is that, even though the wheels fell off here, with Polian making several bad decisions and alienating large portions of the local media and fanbase, he still has shown himself to be a good personnel man, and he knows the league and the salary cap. I think, at the very least, he'd be a good guy to have in the room. I might even form an exploratory committee with him on it, tasked to find two or three final candidates for the job. I might keep him around as a consultant. I definitely think he knows his stuff, but he's a huge personality, and that becomes a problem. Not just with interpersonal relationships, but like you said, eventually the only people in the room are people loyal to him, and that doesn't lend itself to a healthy exchange of ideas. It lends itself to "yes men."

Every franchise needs at least 4 people in the building who can tell the owner when a GM is about to go off the rails and make a colossal mistake. Success and longevity matter of course, but no front office executive or GM is immune from termination.

[Superman]

I don't envision Bill Polian accepting any GM position without almost complete independence. The only one he would agree to answer to would be the owner who signs his paycheck. No, family business here. No father/son working relationships would be permitted to work in the same organizational Dept. either.

I'm not saying he'd have to answer to the president of football operations. But that person wold serve as something like a counter-weight.

[GrizzColt]

I definitely think it was Polian's son making draft decisions that led to our downfall, however than means that BP knew they were bad decisions when his son made them and let him do it anyway. Whether this scenario happened or BP himself made these poor decisions, I don't know, but he has to get blame either way because he was the head guy. I actually like the way he handled his own firing. He may be mad behind the scenes, but on air he seems somewhat more humble. I still consider him one of the very best ever.

[southwest1]

I'm not saying he'd have to answer to the president of football operations. But that person wold serve as something like a counter-weight.

A good idea designed to maintain objectivity and trustworthy analysis Superman, which is why Bill would never agree to this dual partnership proposal. I do respect Bill Polian just not his staff interaction skills as Fatboyslim11 has correctly stated and put his finger on. To succeed in the NFL, all GM's need a small select group of analysts that can confront and disagree with poor personnel decisions either in the draft room, on the field, or in the front office.

[Fx Stryker]

the whole "well, the team was built around peyton" is a * argument. the colts stunk because his drafting went into the tank, he had a disdain for free agencey, and hired mediocre coaches.

I don't think Mora was a mediocre coach. He just didn't have to much luck in the playoffs. And Vandershank stripped away with his first win against the Dolphins.

I'm pretty sure Polian didn't want to hire Dungy. Irsay forced him on the plane when they went to go get him. Not that Dungy was mediocre, but he lead to Caldwell.

[Pat Curtis]

Dungy brought in a slow death defense. Fangio and Mora's defense was embarrassing even more so. Had Mora let Polian fire Fangio, the team we knew for the past decade would have been very different.

About Polian, I absolutely love the in-depth stories and knowledge of the game he has. When he was on draft shows this spring, I remember him talking very highly of Fleener and Allen, with Allen possibly being the better TE. It will be interesting to see how that turns out, but so far it's been nothing but good news about the both of them.

[Superman]

A good idea designed to maintain objectivity and trustworthy analysis Superman, which is why Bill would never agree to this dual partnership proposal. I do respect Bill Polian just not his staff interaction skills as Fatboyslim11 has correctly stated and put his finger on. To succeed in the NFL, all GM's need a small select group of analysts that can confront and disagree with poor personnel decisions either in the draft room, on the field, or in the front office.

That would be one of my conditions. I wouldn't hire Polian without that kind of set-up. It's not really a dual partnership. Polian is still building the team according to his vision, but he's not dominating the room with his personality. I don't need him to defer to the PFO, I just want him to acknowledge a contrary point of view if ever there happens to be one.

He probably wouldn't go for it, and that's okay. Just saying that I think he brings some negatives with him, and that's how I would try to counteract those negatives.

[jbaron04]

The game passed polian bye he got to comfortable and full Of him self surrounded by yes men an people who would not tell him if he was wrong , that ultimately cost him his job