Bad clock management at the end of the game

[SC-Coltsfan]

This has probably already been mentioned, but maybe not. 

 

There was 2:01 left in the game and the Bears had one timeout left. I was very surprised we didn't return the kickoff to essentially burn the 2 minute warning timeout that the Bears were then able to use. In the end, we got a first down, so it didn't matter this time. However, had we not gotten the first down, the Bears could have had over a minute to play with opposed to maybe 25 seconds had they only had their one timeout.

 

 

[Indyfan4life]

14 minutes ago, SC-Coltsfan said:

This has probably already been mentioned, but maybe not. 

 

There was 2:01 left in the game and the Bears had one timeout left. I was very surprised we didn't return the kickoff to essentially burn the 2 minute warning timeout that the Bears were then able to use. In the end, we got a first down, so it didn't matter this time. However, had we not gotten the first down, the Bears could have had over a minute to play with opposed to maybe 25 seconds had they only had their one timeout.

 

 

Announcers brought this up as well. Could have easily cost us, and we're lucky it didn't.

[ColtAndOrioles]

Yeah I mentioned it in the other thread but I thought it was one of the worst coaching blunders I have ever seen.  It didn't turn out to cost them but how, as an NFL head coach, can you NOT tell your return guys to field the kick even if it is in the endzone, run out, kill the few seconds it takes to do that, and then slide down before getting hit to avoid a fumble.  I mean this is so so basic.  You would coach that at any high school or college, let alone the pros.   That way even if Chicago stops them and forces a punt, at most they would have maybe 7-10 seconds left after the punt.  I was screaming at the tv to make sure they run the ball out so when he took a knee I just stared in shock. 

 

When I see things like that I really wonder how it is that certain coaches actually make it to the level that some do.  It was just so utterly stupid.  I hope he gets roasted for this big time.  I have seen lots of red flags from SS this year other than this as well.  He goes for it a lot on 4th or doesn't kick the fg when needed.  Goes for 2 points way too early.  Runs a very simple offense, pretty much Frank Reich 2.0, despite being known as an offensive guru.   Not seeing any progress with AR either.  Also don't like the way that he doesn't seem to get after his players for mistakes that they make.

 

Last year I was very positive on SS but that optimism is fading fast. 

[John Waylon]

I’m guessing it just got lost in the chaos of the moment (I’m sure the coaching staff were focused way more on keeping the defense from their biggest letdown yet than they were on a kickoff,) but luckily it didn’t cost us. 
 

I bet that sequence becomes a point of emphasis for the 31 other teams around the league this week, just to say “let’s not make this same mistake if we find ourselves in a similar situation at some point.”

[SC-Coltsfan]

I just watched the post game press conference and no one asked Steichen about it. Nuts

 

 

[John Waylon]

3 minutes ago, SC-Coltsfan said:

I just watched the post game press conference and no one asked Steichen about it. Nuts

 

 

That is a little surprising. 

[tweezy32]

Paid millions of dollars and cant even handle time management lol. 

[JediXMan]

The sequence was kinda funny. So Paye got injured, so they put in Franklin on special teams coverage. He was lined up wrong and when the sideline told him to line up correctly he almost ran off the field. Finally Shane tried to call a timeout but the refs didn’t hear or see him. It was a chaotic mess there lol.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, SC-Coltsfan said:

This has probably already been mentioned, but maybe not. 

 

There was 2:01 left in the game and the Bears had one timeout left. I was very surprised we didn't return the kickoff to essentially burn the 2 minute warning timeout that the Bears were then able to use. In the end, we got a first down, so it didn't matter this time. However, had we not gotten the first down, the Bears could have had over a minute to play with opposed to maybe 25 seconds had they only had their one timeout.

 

Coaches mismanage time around the two minute warning all the time. I don't get it. 

 

In this case, it's possible the Colts prioritized minimizing the risk of a turnover on a kick return, and didn't want a half effort return which would sacrifice field position, which is understandable. 

[Smonroe]

We were yelling from our section “TAKE IT OUT!!!”   I guess he didn’t hear us, lol.

[NewColtsFan]

49 minutes ago, tweezy32 said:

Paid millions of dollars and cant even handle time management lol. 

Lots of NFL coaches don’t handle clock management well.  Harbaugh was notoriously bad a. Long time ago.   It’s easier if you’re in the booth….  Much harder when you’re on the sidelines.   

[Dingus McGirt]

Lot of things going on at that time.  HC, ST Coach AND the return man…someone, anyone pull your head out of the tunnel of sensory overload. 
 

The kickoff was after a timeout as well.

[New Zealands #1 Colts Fan]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Coaches mismanage time around the two minute warning all the time. I don't get it. 

 

In this case, it's possible the Colts prioritized minimizing the risk of a turnover on a kick return, and didn't want a half effort return which would sacrifice field position, which is understandable. 

I think you have hit the nail on the head. They would rather put the ball in Taylors hand to get 10 yards from the comfort of the 30 yd line then have the returner get stuffed close to the goal line or worse fumble the ball.

[il vecchio]

3 minutes ago, New Zealands #1 Colts Fan said:

I think you have hit the nail on the head. They would rather put the ball in Taylors hand to get 10 yards from the comfort of the 30 yd line then have the returner get stuffed close to the goal line or worse fumble the ball.

Pretty hard to get stuffed near the goal line when the defenders can't move from the 40 yd line until after the ball was caught 5 yds deep.  Gould easily could have made it to the 15 or so and slid.

Question is, is one less time out for the Bears worth the extra yards?  I think it is.  Luckily, JT got the first down, anyway.

 

[twfish]

4 hours ago, JediXMan said:

The sequence was kinda funny. So Paye got injured, so they put in Franklin on special teams coverage. He was lined up wrong and when the sideline told him to line up correctly he almost ran off the field. Finally Shane tried to call a timeout but the refs didn’t hear or see him. It was a chaotic mess there lol.

This right here. They were focused on getting that figured out that they didn’t convey the message to Gould 

[cdgacoltsfan]

What if he did take it out and the refs threw a flag for a block in the back or holding. Worse yet, what if he took it out and fumbled it away. Would you experts be ok with those scenarios?

[jvan1973]

I'm guessing field position was more important than the 2 minute warning.   If you think it wasn't talked about you're crazy.  The threat of a turnover or terrible field position had to be talked about.   Plus the Colts were running at will at that point.   Non issue

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, SC-Coltsfan said:

I just watched the post game press conference and no one asked Steichen about it. Nuts

 

 

I was saying even before the kickoff just return it so the 2-minute warning timeout is off the board. I was like, what are we doing. So far Shane has been sleeping at the wheel.

9 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I'm guessing field position was more important than the 2 minute warning.   If you think it wasn't talked about you're crazy.  The threat of a turnover or terrible field position had to be talked about.   Plus the Colts were running at will at that point.   Non issue

This could be as well. 

[rock8591]

It would seem like the announcers got it wrong?

 

To my understanding, the two minute warning cannot be "skipped."

 

I.e. if he took the ball out at 2:01, gets tackled with hypothetically 1:50 left to play, the two minute warning would commence at 1:50 and not "skipped."

 

Also I noticed there's nothing online that mentions that supposed miscue save for the game announcers and this thread.

[Old Man and the COLTS]

I think we have a time management guru that advises on these.situations 

 

like a 2 point conversion chart, they must have a sheet for all situations  Algorithms, meetings etc . I mean what  else does this person do but evaluate scenarios like this 

everything has a value - return and take chance of fumble, penalty etc to take away 2 minute warning timeout =X

fair catch and get ball at 30 =Y

 

Coaching staff believed fair catch outweighed timeout option

 

They have to make a quick decision and this one called for what they executed

 

we all know if this backfired- Shane would of said It’s on me I have to do better

because thats what coaches do

 

Publicly mostly everything is a positive spin

 

I would love to be a fly on the wall Monday thru Saturday and get the real scope And no not the hard knocks version lol

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, rock8591 said:

It would seem like the announcers got it wrong?

 

To my understanding, the two minute warning cannot be "skipped."

 

I.e. if he took the ball out at 2:01, gets tackled with hypothetically 1:50 left to play, the two minute warning would commence at 1:50 and not "skipped."

 

Because there was no return, the Colts ran their first play of the possession before the two minute warning, with 2:01 remaining. The clock stopped after that play, without the Bears using a timeout. So now it's 2nd down, and the Bears still have one timeout.

 

If the Colts had returned the kick, the two minute warning would have happened before the Colts ran their first play of the possession. The Bears would have had to use their timeout after our first play, and it would have been 2nd down, and they'd have no timeouts.

 

It wound up being inconsequential, but we basically gave them an extra clock stoppage by taking the touchback.

[rock8591]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Because there was no return, the Colts ran their first play of the possession before the two minute warning, with 2:01 remaining. The clock stopped after that play, without the Bears using a timeout. So now it's 2nd down, and the Bears still have one timeout.

 

If the Colts had returned the kick, the two minute warning would have happened before the Colts ran their first play of the possession. The Bears would have had to use their timeout after our first play, and it would have been 2nd down, and they'd have no timeouts.

 

It wound up being inconsequential, but we basically gave them an extra clock stoppage by taking the touchback.

 

I see what you're saying.

 

Basically when the clock goes from 2:01 to 2:00, the TMW activates.

 

Whereas if Gould ran it out with 1:55 left, the TMW activates PRIOR to the first down play instead of after that play.

 

Basically think of it like "blue, red, blue" instead of "red, blue, red."

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, rock8591 said:

 

I see what you're saying.

 

Basically when the clock goes from 2:01 to 2:00, the TMW activates.

 

Whereas if Gould ran it out with 1:55 left, the TMW activates PRIOR to the first down play instead of after that play.

 

Basically like "blue, red, blue" instead of "red, blue, red."

 

Yup.

 

I don't know whether the coaching staff decided not to risk it, or if they were unable to get the return team on the same page with all the confusion. Either way, being able to get a first down in a situation like that is a nice test for the offense, one they happened to pass this time. 

[ColtAndOrioles]

2 hours ago, rock8591 said:

It would seem like the announcers got it wrong?

 

To my understanding, the two minute warning cannot be "skipped."

 

I.e. if he took the ball out at 2:01, gets tackled with hypothetically 1:50 left to play, the two minute warning would commence at 1:50 and not "skipped."

 

Also I noticed there's nothing online that mentions that supposed miscue save for the game announcers and this thread.

No.  The two minute warning would have been applied at 1:50 in your scenario and combined with the normal time out after a kickoff.

 

In other words even if the Colts had run it out of the endzone and then kneeled 3 straight times and then punted?   The time left after the punt would have been around 5-10 seconds.

It was a majorly bad decision by SS and imo a fire able offense.  It was that bad.  It very easily could have lost the Colts the game.

 

 

[Goatface Killah]

7 hours ago, JediXMan said:

The sequence was kinda funny. So Paye got injured, so they put in Franklin on special teams coverage. He was lined up wrong and when the sideline told him to line up correctly he almost ran off the field. Finally Shane tried to call a timeout but the refs didn’t hear or see him. It was a chaotic mess there lol.

Yeah I was watching that from the stands. They need to be better prepared than that. There was a long stoppage for Payes injury too so they had plenty of time to get things sorted out. 

 

Thats why Im not too high on Steichen taking the blame for every one elses mistakes. He makes plenty of his own but when hes asked about them he seldom admits he messed up. The Taylor situation from the week before is a good example.

[ColtAndOrioles]

18 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

Yeah I was watching that from the stands. They need to be better prepared than that. There was a long stoppage for Payes injury too so they had plenty of time to get things sorted out. 

 

Thats why Im not too high on Steichen taking the blame for every one elses mistakes. He makes plenty of his own but when hes asked about them he seldom admits he messed up. The Taylor situation from the week before is a good example.

That is so far my third biggest gripe with SS. 

First being his offense seems very vanilla.  We are approaching Frank Reich status here.

 

Second I don't think AR is making as much progress as he should be.

 

Third he seems to make very poor in game decisions and then takes the blame as if that is a huge testament to his character.

 

I could care less about character.  Just learn how to coach.  And when the clock is at 2:01 and you have a kickoff coming against a team with 1 timeout left?  You run the ball out of the endzone and you literally scream at your special teamers or your special teams coach to do that.

 

The fact that he didn't literally tells me he is a stupid person when it comes to football IQ. 

[Dingus McGirt]

27 minutes ago, ColtAndOrioles said:

No.  The two minute warning would have been applied at 1:50 in your scenario and combined with the normal time out after a kickoff.

 

In other words even if the Colts had run it out of the endzone and then kneeled 3 straight times and then punted?   The time left after the punt would have been around 5-10 seconds.

It was a majorly bad decision by SS and imo a fire able offense.  It was that bad.  It very easily could have lost the Colts the game.

 

 

A “fireable offense?”  

[ColtAndOrioles]

22 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

A “fireable offense?”  

IMO yes.  Should he be fired over this one decision alone?  No.  But if he keeps making mistakes like this like he is starting to develop a pattern of?  Although none so far have been this blatantly bad....then yes it should be a major red flag in regards to how prepared SS has this team on a day to day, a week to week, and a year to year basis.

 

I am sorry.  But if you do not have the where with all to tell your return men, after a TV timeout, to take the ball out of the endzone so that the 2 minute warning is basically voided?  With a team down  by more than a FG and only one timeout left?  I don't know what to say to that.  It is a huge dereliction of duty as a coach.   

 

A few people in this thread are saying that the field position was more important than the time remaining.  And that makes no sense.  Maybe if the Bears needed a FG to win where field position is more important, but they didn't need a FG to win.  They needed a TD.

 

With the new kick off rules as far as positioning, there is no question that Gould should have taken the ball to the 15-25 yard line and slid down.   That leaves 1:55 on the clock and 1 time out for the Bears.  Run 3 plays.  Assume the Colts don't get a first down and have to punt.  At best that leaves around 10 seconds on the clock with the Bears needing to score a TD, with no timeouts from their own 35-40.  Instead, by not running the ball out of the endzone, if the Colts had not gotten a first down, the Bears would have had the ball on their own 30 or so with 45 seconds left on the clock.  15 extra yards in better field position for the Colts  is not worth 35 extra seconds when the Bears have to score a TD.  Not a FG.  15 yards in a hurry up offense is nothing. 

 

I am sorry but that was one of the most bone headed calls I have ever seen a coach make and that is just after seeing years of them being made in the Chuck and Frank Reich era.   It really makes me question the football IQ of SS. 

[Superman]

18 minutes ago, ColtAndOrioles said:

IMO yes.  Should he be fired over this one decision alone?  No.  But if he keeps making mistakes like this like he is starting to develop a pattern of?  Although none so far have been this blatantly bad....then yes it should be a major red flag in regards to how prepared SS has this team on a day to day, a week to week, and a year to year basis.

 

I am sorry.  But if you do not have the where with all to tell your return men, after a TV timeout, to take the ball out of the endzone so that the 2 minute warning is basically voided?  With a team down  by more than a FG and only one timeout left?  I don't know what to say to that.  It is a huge dereliction of duty as a coach.   

 

A few people in this thread are saying that the field position was more important than the time remaining.  And that makes no sense.  Maybe if the Bears needed a FG to win where field position is more important, but they didn't need a FG to win.  They needed a TD.

 

With the new kick off rules as far as positioning, there is no question that Gould should have taken the ball to the 15-25 yard line and slid down.   That leaves 1:55 on the clock and 1 time out for the Bears.  Run 3 plays.  Assume the Colts don't get a first down and have to punt.  At best that leaves around 10 seconds on the clock with the Bears needing to score a TD, with no timeouts from their own 35-40.  Instead, by not running the ball out of the endzone, if the Colts had not gotten a first down, the Bears would have had the ball on their own 30 or so with 45 seconds left on the clock.  15 extra yards in better field position for the Colts  is not worth 35 extra seconds when the Bears have to score a TD.  Not a FG.  15 yards in a hurry up offense is nothing. 

 

I am sorry but that was one of the most bone headed calls I have ever seen a coach make and that is just after seeing years of them being made in the Chuck and Frank Reich era.   It really makes me question the football IQ of SS. 

 

I think you're overstating it.

 

First, no matter what happened on the kickoff, the Colts still needed a first down to ice the game. It's obvious that this is what they were focused on.

 

Second, regarding field position, you're acting like Gould would have been able to return the ball to the 25 untouched, and then go down on his own. Most kickoff returns are being stopped by the coverage team between the 20-25 yard line. So he would have had to go down somewhere around the 15, at best. 

 

Then, if we don't get the first down and have to punt the ball, we've sacrificed 15 yards of field position by not taking the touchback at the 30 yard line. 

 

Also, your math is generous. If they did it your way, the Colts run first down at 1:58, second down at 1:53, third down at 1:10, fourth down you're punting with something like 30 seconds left. Not 10 seconds. And if you're making the Bears defense go 80 yards with 30 seconds and no timeouts, that should be fine. But if you're punting from your own 20 yard line, and you get 50 yards net (which is also a generous assumption, because bad punts are a thing, and big returns are a thing), now the Bears get the ball on their 30, and can probably run two plays to get into hail mary territory. And they ended the first half with a hail mary that almost got into the end zone.

 

Lastly, I think it's possible that the Colts intended to tell Gould to return the kickoff, but with the personnel confusion, the instructions didn't get relayed. And that's definitely on the coaching staff, because stuff like that shouldn't happen.

 

I think returning the kick would have been the right call. I don't think it's as significant an error as you and OP are claiming. Especially when the real objective is to get a first down and end the game. 

[crazycolt1]

Jeez, when the Colts struggle some fans just lay in waiting to complain about anything and everything. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Jeez, when the Colts struggle some fans just lay in waiting to complain about anything and everything. 

You have been here now what, 25 years lol, you know how people are in here.

[ColtAndOrioles]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I think you're overstating it.

 

First, no matter what happened on the kickoff, the Colts still needed a first down to ice the game. It's obvious that this is what they were focused on.

 

Second, regarding field position, you're acting like Gould would have been able to return the ball to the 25 untouched, and then go down on his own. Most kickoff returns are being stopped by the coverage team between the 20-25 yard line. So he would have had to go down somewhere around the 15, at best. 

 

Then, if we don't get the first down and have to punt the ball, we've sacrificed 15 yards of field position by not taking the touchback at the 30 yard line. 

 

Also, your math is generous. If they did it your way, the Colts run first down at 1:58, second down at 1:53, third down at 1:10, fourth down you're punting with something like 30 seconds left. Not 10 seconds. And if you're making the Bears defense go 80 yards with 30 seconds and no timeouts, that should be fine. But if you're punting from your own 20 yard line, and you get 50 yards net (which is also a generous assumption, because bad punts are a thing, and big returns are a thing), now the Bears get the ball on their 30, and can probably run two plays to get into hail mary territory. And they ended the first half with a hail mary that almost got into the end zone.

 

Lastly, I think it's possible that the Colts intended to tell Gould to return the kickoff, but with the personnel confusion, the instructions didn't get relayed. And that's definitely on the coaching staff, because stuff like that shouldn't happen.

 

I think returning the kick would have been the right call. I don't think it's as significant an error as you and OP are claiming. Especially when the real objective is to get a first down and end the game. 

A few things in response....

 

I agree they needed a first down to ice the game.  I literally said that.  My point was IF THEY DID NOT DO THAT....would you rather have the Bears (again assuming the Colts did not get a first down)  with the ball on their own 40 yard line with 10 seconds to go or their own 25-30 with 45 seconds to go.  To me this is a no brainer.  The ball on the 40 with 10 seconds left.  They needed a TD.  Not a FG.   Field position meant almost nothing. 

 

Secondly, I literally said Gould should be able to return the ball between the 15-25 yard line and then slide down.  Here is what I said... "there is no question that Gould should have taken the ball to the 15-25 yard line and slid down."  Could be the 15.  Could be the 25.  Again because they needed a TD it really didn't matter.  An extra 10-15 yards of field position in the Colts favor is not worth an extra 35 seconds for the Bears.   That is simple math. 

 

Third.....your math is wrong.     First down for the Colts at 1:55 after the run out of the endzone.  Run the ball.  Bears call timeout at 1:49.   Second down run the ball to 1:41, play clock starts there and then hike the ball at 1:06 and run the ball again.   Third  down.  Run the ball.  Play clock starts at .57.   Run the ball.  Play clock starts around .50.   Run the clock down to .15.  Call timeout.

 

Punt.  Play clock stops around .10 or so.  This is pure math. 

 

So I have to ask....what is your logic and reasoning about that the clock being stopped at 30 seconds and the Bears getting the ball?  You just added on 20 seconds for no reason that I can see.  Please explain because it makes no sense at all.  Strictly talking about logic and math here.  Not feelings. 

 

Fourth...I totally agree the confusion at the end  may have played a part in the Colts not doing the right thing there.  But again, that is on the Colts coaching staff and their incompetence.    They are paid $millions to figure stuff like that out.  If I can do it watching on TV in that second, how can the Colts coaching staff not do this with 30 people paid to do this?

 

Make that make sense. 

[ColtAndOrioles]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You have been here now what, 25 years lol, you know how people are in here.

Ok.  25 years.  How many Sb's and playoff appearances have we seen from the Colts in those 25 years?  The past 35 years?  The past 10 years?  Why reward incompetence with your loyalty?

 

People continually want to give their favorite sports team too much credit and favoritism.  The call at 2:01 was not a difficult thing.  Every pee wee coach in the USA could make that call. Run the ball out of the endzone. Burn the 2 minute warning.   Our Colts coaches did not do that.

[GoColts8818]

Mistake yes.  Fireable no.