Ballard pre-draft presser

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If a player like Marvin doesn't work out, I will buy you a steak dinner at St Elmo, that is how sure I am that Marvin will be great. Same for Nabors. 

Good for you.  But maybe a team doesn’t want to trade down to 15.  
 

Look at the 2020 draft.   
 

1.   Lawrence 

2.   Wilson

3.   Lance

11.  Fields after a trade up

15.  Jones

 

I may be missing one.  But only Lawrence has worked out and many here are underwhelmed with him.  The rest have not worked out.   There are plenty of examples about trading up to get a guy near the top and it doesn’t work out. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Good for you.  But maybe a team doesn’t want to trade down to 15.  
 

Look at the 2020 draft.   
 

1.   Lawrence 

2.   Wilson

3.   Lance

11.  Fields after a trade up

15.  Jones

 

I may be missing one.  But only Lawrence has worked out and many here are underwhelmed with him.  The rest have not worked out.   There are plenty of examples about trading up to get a guy near the top and it doesn’t work out. 

There is, but there are not many WR's that have came out like Marvin. He is a generational type WR. I also think Nabors will very good at worse. JMO, maybe I am wrong?

[Solid84]

Ballard on OL (and WR):

Quote

I truly believe you're going to get a really good player in those mid rounds and even some later because of the depth of the group and wideout's very similar. Those two position groups stand out, they're both really good.

I definitely see a IOL somewhere in round 3-5. Maybe even a WR? We could go two WRs since we let McKenzie walk and kinda need a guy behind Downs.

[Dark Superman]

It was the typical Chris Ballard presser that we've all seen every year he's been the Colts GM.

[2006Coltsbestever]

38 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Good for you.  But maybe a team doesn’t want to trade down to 15.  
 

Look at the 2020 draft.   
 

1.   Lawrence 

2.   Wilson

3.   Lance

11.  Fields after a trade up

15.  Jones

 

I may be missing one.  But only Lawrence has worked out and many here are underwhelmed with him.  The rest have not worked out.   There are plenty of examples about trading up to get a guy near the top and it doesn’t work out. 

Actually the 2020 Draft the one I was talking about had Herbert go at 6 and Tua went at 5, Burrow was #1. You just posted the 2021 Draft. 

[cdgacoltsfan]

The main thing I got out of this presser is that Ballard is either going through a mid life crisis, getting hair plugs , or both. He's growing his hair long in the back and always wears a hat at pressers and public appearances .

[2006Coltsbestever]

Even in 2021 draft Chase was selected 5th by the Bengals, best move they have ever made. That gave Burrow gigantic help. They did the right thing and got Burrow what he needed. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

The main thing I got out of this presser is that Ballard is either going through a mid life crisis, getting hair plugs , or both. He's growing his hair long in the back and always wears a hat at pressers and public appearances .

[Superman]

37 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not only that rumor has it that the Cards want to trade that pick is why I posted what I posted. We just never take any huge chances. What is Ballard afraid of? He already gets bashed by half the fanbase anyway. AR needs all the help he can get is how I look at things. If AR has a good season, then yes, we could win 11 games with a better playmaker on offense. 

 

I think this probably isn't an objective viewpoint. I think you want fireworks, and you're an eternal optimist. Nothing wrong with that, but I think a more practical viewpoint is to acknowledge that taking huge chances isn't exactly a recipe for success. (You're going to point to examples that worked out; I'm going to counter with twice as many that failed.)

 

The bolded especially. First, it seems like you chose 11 games because you feel like that's the target to keep up with the Texans. Second, I don't think the Colts are one player away from keeping up with the top tier of the AFC. I think a lot has to go right for the Colts to be in the mix with the Chiefs, etc. I said at the beginning of the offseason, I think we're still one draft class away from being in those discussions.

 

But if you can talk yourself into one guy being the answer, just one playmaker holds the key for the Colts to be in contention, then yeah, identify your favorite prospect and bang the table for the Colts to do whatever they have to to get that player. That would be awesome for us. But I think the reason Ballard doesn't do that is because it's flawed team building (historically speaking), not because he's afraid.. You can promise steak dinners based on your hunches, but that's not exactly how I want the GM to make decisions.

[Coltsbluefan]

1 hour ago, rockywoj said:

In 2011 Falcons selected WR Julio Jones with 6th overall pick from Cleveland Browns, giving up a package of 5 draft picks … Atlanta's No. 27 overall 2011 1st round pick, their 2012 1st round pick, 2011 2nd & 4th round picks, & a 2012 4th round pick. Ergo, there’s precedence.

 

I remember at the time thinking Atlanta was crazy to give that much up.  I also remember thinking a couple of years later, Falcons have a star receiver, one of the best in the game, so did giving up so much really matter?

 

I also remember the hype surrounding Julio Jones at his time of being drafted, and he was NOT touted as being as sure fire as Marvin Harrison Junior currently is.  Also note, if the Colts trade up, the team dropping down is not dropping down as far as Cleveland did back in 2011 (6 to 27) as compared to, say, 4 to 15, so it might not cost quite as much as Atlanta gave up.

 

i am inclined to say pull the move up trigger.

Gotta have a trade partner.Big ? Is would Arizona trade back that far knowing they’re gonna miss out on one of those top 3 Wr’s.I would also call New England and Los Angeles too.I don’t see MHJ getting past the 4th pick unless a Minnesota or Denver trades up for one of those top QB’s.I also don’t see the Giants if they stay put at 6 not taking Nabors I think that’s who they got they’re eyes on with that pick.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think this probably isn't an objective viewpoint. I think you want fireworks, and you're an eternal optimist. Nothing wrong with that, but I think a more practical viewpoint is to acknowledge that taking huge chances isn't exactly a recipe for success. (You're going to point to examples that worked out; I'm going to counter with twice as many that failed.)

 

The bolded especially. First, it seems like you chose 11 games because you feel like that's the target to keep up with the Texans. Second, I don't think the Colts are one player away from keeping up with the top tier of the AFC. I think a lot has to go right for the Colts to be in the mix with the Chiefs, etc. I said at the beginning of the offseason, I think we're still one draft class away from being in those discussions.

 

But if you can talk yourself into one guy being the answer, just one playmaker holds the key for the Colts to be in contention, then yeah, identify your favorite prospect and bang the table for the Colts to do whatever they have to to get that player. That would be awesome for us. But I think the reason Ballard doesn't do that is because it's flawed team building (historically speaking), not because he's afraid.. You can promise steak dinners based on your hunches, but that's not exactly how I want the GM to make decisions.

It depends on how good AR will be, if he is good we can win 11 with the help of another great player, we won 9 with Minshew, should have been 10. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think this probably isn't an objective viewpoint. I think you want fireworks, and you're an eternal optimist. Nothing wrong with that, but I think a more practical viewpoint is to acknowledge that taking huge chances isn't exactly a recipe for success. (You're going to point to examples that worked out; I'm going to counter with twice as many that failed.)

 

The bolded especially. First, it seems like you chose 11 games because you feel like that's the target to keep up with the Texans. Second, I don't think the Colts are one player away from keeping up with the top tier of the AFC. I think a lot has to go right for the Colts to be in the mix with the Chiefs, etc. I said at the beginning of the offseason, I think we're still one draft class away from being in those discussions.

 

But if you can talk yourself into one guy being the answer, just one playmaker holds the key for the Colts to be in contention, then yeah, identify your favorite prospect and bang the table for the Colts to do whatever they have to to get that player. That would be awesome for us. But I think the reason Ballard doesn't do that is because it's flawed team building (historically speaking), not because he's afraid.. You can promise steak dinners based on your hunches, but that's not exactly how I want the GM to make decisions.

When Marvin has 90-100 catches next season and over 1000 yards as a rookie + turns Murray's career around, I want you to remember this post assuming the Cards do take Marvin. 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When Marvin has 90-100 catches next season and over 1000 yards as a rookie + turns Murray's career around, I want you to remember this post assuming the Cards do take Marvin. 

 

What MHJ does or doesn't do isn't really relevant to my point.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What MHJ does or doesn't do isn't really relevant to my point.

ok

[rockywoj]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When Marvin has 90-100 catches next season and over 1000 yards as a rookie for the Colts, you’ll quickly forget about all the draft capital used to acquire him.

Sorted out your post. 😉

[rockywoj]

Just now, OLD FAN MAN said:

ballard seems to like  more lower picks instead of high quality picks

A big part of that is cap management, too, methinks.

[hoosierhawk]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not only that rumor has it that the Cards want to trade that pick is why I posted what I posted. We just never take any huge chances. What is Ballard afraid of? He already gets bashed by half the fanbase anyway. AR needs all the help he can get is how I look at things. If AR has a good season, then yes, we could win 11 games with a better playmaker on offense. 

Don't think you want to trade your future away until we are certain that AR is the QB we think he is. If CB would trade our 1st round next year and more and AR is not the guy CB will be looking for a job real soon.

[2006Coltsbestever]

16 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Don't think you want to trade your future away until we are certain that AR is the QB we think he is. If CB would trade our 1st round next year and more and AR is not the guy CB will be looking for a job real soon.

Trading away next year's 1st isn't trading the future away. #2, the Colts will give AR at least 2 years to prove himself, even if he stinks next year he isn't going anywhere under a rookie contract. Anyone that can't see trading up for a guy like Marvin just blows my mind in this day and age of how valuable the WR is. 

23 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

Sorted out your post. 😉

Nice correction to my post  

[OLD FAN MAN]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

So only 19-21 players with 1st rd grades and he’s willing to trade up for the right player if he’s in striking distance.  So how many of those 21 players would be available at 15 If he’s trying to strengthen the team with a difference making player in a position of need.  The key being 1st rd grade in a position of need.  I don’t see him going inside the top 5 but I think he’s going to do it somewhere starting with pick 9.  I think he would consider Bowers, Nabors , Odunze, and Turner as candidates for being the right player.  I think he will move up for one of those players starting at pick 9 depending on how the draft falls.  19-21 is a small number and a number of those positions are not a position of need.  Can’t see him waiting. I think he likes our secondary too. I think he told us he’s prepared to move up to try for a playmaker if he falls within striking distance.  I think he’s going to do it.

 

sure hope he does we need a game changing pass catcher

[2006Coltsbestever]

Would Cincy have made the SB without taking Chase at #5. I got the answer, and it is easy, it is a FAT NO. They would have never got by KC as great as Burrow is. Giving up next years 1st round pick isn't the end of the world to land a generational WR. We still have picks in rounds 2-7 if we did that. 

[Superman]

18 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

Sorted out your post. 😉

 

Yeah, I have no beef with MHJ as a prospect (I think some are pumping him up a little too much, and there's some name recognition probably influencing the way he's talked about). It would be awesome to have him on the Colts. But just like every other draft prospect in history, the possibility exists that he will not live up to the pre-draft expectations. 

 

But during the pre-draft process, fans and media start falling in love with players. Terms like "generational talent," "future superstar," etc., start getting thrown around. And now we're talking about a prospect as if he's a lock for the HOF before he's even played a game in the NFL. That's fine, it's fun, we all do it. But that's different from actually scouting, setting a board, and making decisions for the team.

 

Each of us can point to a previous prospect that we loved and raved about and had them fitted for a gold jacket, but who bounced out of the league within 3-4 years. And the same is probably true for NFL scouts and decision makers. Which is why Ballard's comment today -- there is no such thing as a perfect prospect -- is so important to remember. I'm not against the team identifying a guy they really want and going up to get him, but I hope they're not just doing it with stars in their eyes.

[krunk]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Would Cincy have made the SB without taking Chase at #5. I got the answer, and it is easy, it is a FAT NO. They would have never got by KC as great as Burrow is. Giving up next years 1st round pick isn't the end of the world to land a generational WR. We still have picks in rounds 2-7 if we did that. 

Was that the only good receiver taken in that draft? And did they give up multiple picks?

[jvan1973]

39 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Trading away next year's 1st isn't trading the future away. #2, the Colts will give AR at least 2 years to prove himself, even if he stinks next year he isn't going anywhere under a rookie contract. Anyone that can't see trading up for a guy like Marvin just blows my mind in this day and age of how valuable the WR is. 

Nice correction to my post  

I think moving from 15 to 4 will take more than swapping firsts and next years first

[w87r]

9 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I think moving from 15 to 4 will take more than swapping firsts and next years first

Just saw a mock with us trading up to #4 for Harrison.

 

#15

#82

2025 1st

2025 3rd

 

For 

 

#4

 

 

Probably a pretty accurate price. Won't be just us trying to trade up, there would be competition.

 

Vikings have #11,#23, prob still cost them more as well.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, w87r said:

Just saw a mock with us trading up to #4 for Harrison.

 

#15

#82

2025 1st

2025 3rd

 

For 

 

#4

 

 

Probably a pretty accurate price. Won't be just us trying to trade up, there would be competition.

 

Vikings have #11,#23, prob still cost them more as well.

I think that is far too steep with the needs we have.   Maybe Irsay makes a play in a few years to get him here in free agency 

[cdgacoltsfan]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

I think that is far too steep with the needs we have.   Maybe Irsay makes a play in a few years to get him here in free agency 

Let's pump the brakes on him and see how he is as a pro first.

[richard pallo]

4 minutes ago, w87r said:

Just saw a mock with us trading up to #4 for Harrison.

 

#15

#82

2025 1st

2025 3rd

 

For 

 

#4

 

 

Probably a pretty accurate price. Won't be just us trying to trade up, there would be competition.

 

Vikings have #11,#23, prob still cost them more as well.

That’s a fair price considering we don’t have many needs.  We still have this years 2nd.

[cdgacoltsfan]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

That’s a fair price considering we don’t have many needs.  We still have this years 2nd.

So the Colts wouldn't move up from #4 to #1 last year to secure either Stroud or Young ( who Irsay liked) but we now think they are going to shell out all this draft capital to move up to # 4. ( Btw...why does everyone think the Cards are going to trade the pick?....it's not happening)

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Let's pump the brakes on him and see how he is as a pro first.

I think waiting a few years is pumping the brakes

[Dunk]

Hmmmm, back in 1996 the Jets drafted a mega hyped receiver 1st overall Keyshawn Johnson. Pretty good career 13 years over 10,000 yds. 64 TD.  Guess who the Colts drafted at 19 that year? A hint, his son is the guy everybody wants this year.

I think Marv Jr. will be at the least very good. Just pointing out, that sometimes the best in a class, aren't always the most hyped.

[Superman]

Ballard on character:

"Who they are is important. ... We're dealing with young men here, who are not fully developed into men yet. We're talking about 20, 21, 22 year old young men that make mistakes... and I can live with some of those mistakes. ... But to me... when they fail is when they don't love the game. ... You've been around players who are not fully mature off the field, but on the field, they love football, so they're gonna do everything in their power to get better. ... And it's the hardest part to figure out. ... How are they gonna handle their time, cause they've got more of it, and how are they gonna handle their money. ... The hardest thing is getting the character right. ... There's a lot of times we'll pass on guys in the draft and I know people freak out... well there's usually something we found out or didn't like and we ended up passing. It wasn't a good fit for us, it might be a good fit for somebody else and they might make it work, but for us it wasn't."

 

Football character. 

[Superman]

On DB:

Q: "Are you worried you're too young?"

A: "No, not anymore, they've grown up."

[Superman]

5 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah, this place is either going to happy or implode because nobody in here has any idea what Ballard will do or who he will pick.

 

This place will implode no matter what. 

[Moosejawcolt]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

He thinks it's a strong offensive draft at the top, and a lot of offensive players will go at the top. 

 

I have heard one GM who says he thinks LTs and defensive players may go earlier than expected. Interesting ro see who wil

 

6 hours ago, Shepman said:

I predict Bowers will be there at 15, we trade back and he gets picked before we are back on and the forum explodes.

Bowers won't be there at 15. He is special if u watch the tape. 

[Superman]

Ballard praised Georgia defensive players and their knowledge of the game.

 

Georgia defensive players in this year's draft, per Scouts Inc (ESPN):

Kamari Lassiter, CB, #45 (doesn't fit Ballard's profile for DBs)

Javon Bullard, S, #49 (doesn't fit Ballard's profile for safeties)

Tykee Smith, S, #97 (not a great fit for Ballard's profile for safeties)

Zion Logue, DT, #222 (long, big, not a standout athlete)

Jontrey Hunter, LB, #316 (not a great fit from a size standpoint, didn't run)

[w87r]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

On DB:

Q: "Are you worried you're too young?"

A: "No, not anymore, they've grown up."

 

 

50 minutes ago, Superman said:

Ballard praised Georgia defensive players and their knowledge of the game.

 

Georgia defensive players in this year's draft, per Scouts Inc (ESPN):

Kamari Lassiter, CB, #45 (doesn't fit Ballard's profile for DBs)

Javon Bullard, S, #49 (doesn't fit Ballard's profile for safeties)

Tykee Smith, S, #97 (not a great fit for Ballard's profile for safeties)

Zion Logue, DT, #222 (long, big, not a standout athlete)

Jontrey Hunter, LB, #316 (not a great fit from a size standpoint, didn't run)

 

Thanks for trying to get it back on topic.

 

People just can't resist trying to turn every other thread into a Ballard grievance thread. Edit(moved a few over to grievance thread)

 

 

 

I thought the same thing on Georgia Defensive players

 

Lassiter and Bullard would be the (2) I would suspect we're most likely, if any.

 

I agree though, don't fit Ballard's profile too well.

 

 

Probably just used them as a good example, as they do have a great defensive coach and have put a lot of players in the league.

[w87r]

good interview with Rich Eisen today.

 

 

Talks about fantasy world of getting Harrison.

 

 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

4 minutes ago, w87r said:

good interview with Rich Eisen today.

 

 

Talks about fantasy world of getting Harrison.

 

 

 

 

his reaction to 5, but specifically 6 qbs going through 15 tells me they have 8 or 9 guys they consider premium players. 

go back to 2018 draft and he identified premium players as game changing, teams game planning against through the week players. And identified 8 non qb players that year, obviously Q being one of them. I think about those comments a lot, especially when he traded away for Buck. I say there is 8- possibly 9 premium non qb players on the colts board. If one is there at 15, that’s who they take. If not, you can bet it’s a trade back. 

 

[w87r]

6 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

his reaction to 5, but specifically 6 qbs going through 15 tells me they have 8 or 9 guys they consider premium players. 

go back to 2018 draft and he identified premium players as game changing, teams game planning against through the week players. And identified 8 non qb players that year, obviously Q being one of them. I think about those comments a lot, especially when he traded away for Buck. I say there is 8- possibly 9 premium non qb players on the colts board. If one is there at 15, that’s who they take. If not, you can bet it’s a trade back. 

 

I think there is a pretty good chance that (5) QBs go before #15. (4) is 100%, imo.

 

Would be crazy if (6) went in top 13. There is quite a few teams on the prowl though, so you never know.

[colts89]

4 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

The main thing I got out of this presser is that Ballard is either going through a mid life crisis, getting hair plugs , or both. He's growing his hair long in the back and always wears a hat at pressers and public appearances .

I'd imagine he's going bald. Most men his age usually are when they start sporting the caps 24/7.