Colts offseason discussion / Ballard Grievances (merge)

[Jason_]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I am just tired of relying on young late round draft picks in the secondary. 

 

Were we relying on young, late round draft picks because that's what Ballard wanted to go into the season with?  Or was it due to the multiple injuries that occurred to the guys who would have otherwise been the starters?

[shasta519]

26 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Every player brought to the Colts were Ballard types.  Both Parris and Ebron were brought here post Reich hiring and don't fit the description of what frank supposedly wants.  As well as the Cain's and Fountain's.   Really, only pre-Pittman Funchess, Pittman, and now AP fit that narrative in 6 offseasons.  The TE's don't fit the physical TE narrative either.

 

Agreed, SS will have some different bent towards personnel.  But I look at it as him teaching Ballard what's important, rather than telling him who to pick.

 

And PC was here from 2019-2022 and had R2 draft capital. Would it have made sense to draft a similar WR type early or sign one in FA?

 

And before PC, they brought in Grant, who was more a slot WR. 

 

Funchess was an attempt to get an X WR, which they found in MPJ a year later. 

 

The rest are a mix of traitsy, athletic pass catchers like Cain, Fountain and AP, Woods, Ogletree, etc. This has become Ballard's calling card recently for all players he drafts.

 

Granson was def a Reich pick though. He was meant to be a Trey Burton type I think.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Ballard admitted he didn’t find Bradley enough. So he kept Bradley. Yet we sit here with an even bigger hole at safety without Blackmon and no competent FS. No competent corner to go with Brent’s either.

[ColtStrong2013]

42 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Every player brought to the Colts were Ballard types.  Both Parris and Ebron were brought here post Reich hiring and don't fit the description of what frank supposedly wants.  As well as the Cain's and Fountain's.   Really, only pre-Pittman Funchess, Pittman, and now AP fit that narrative in 6 offseasons.  The TE's don't fit the physical TE narrative either.

 

Agreed, SS will have some different bent towards personnel.  But I look at it as him teaching Ballard what's important, rather than telling him who to pick.

stratchon, patmon? 
 

Just a few years ago we had 6 foot 4 to 6 foot 7 pass catchers across the board aside from one or two players… 

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Ballard admitted he didn’t find Bradley enough. So he kept Bradley. Yet we sit here with an even bigger hole at safety without Blackmon and no competent FS. No competent corner to go with Brent’s either.

thank God we don’t play next week Chloe… 

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, Jason_ said:

 

Were we relying on young, late round draft picks because that's what Ballard wanted to go into the season with?  Or was it due to the multiple injuries that occurred to the guys who would have otherwise been the starters?

A little of both actually. The second question was what lead to us to the first question. But instead of picking someone up at the deadline Ballard decided it was time to test the young ones out and get them experience. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

stratchon, patmon? 
 

Just a few years ago we had 6 foot 4 to 6 foot 7 pass catchers across the board aside from one or two players… 

thank God we don’t play next week Chloe… 

You realize fans say this every year and then we get to TC and it is not fixed. It’s the same song  and dance every year. Some of you fans should have figured this out by now.

[Yoshinator]

8 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Ballard admitted he didn’t find Bradley enough. So he kept Bradley. Yet we sit here with an even bigger hole at safety without Blackmon and no competent FS. No competent corner to go with Brent’s either.

Keeping Gus Bradley was the worst mistake of the offseason IMO. His conservativeness is going to hurt this team so much for the future. The number of sacks we got last year was a mirage. There's no way that is sustainable the amount of times we blitz and the  amount of pressure we get. 

 

The secondary doesn't help either. Ballard needs to figure out a way to pay Sneed (if that's what's holding up the deal). If we go into the year without a no1 CB and some sort of competent S, we are in big trouble when you combine it with the lack of pressure we get on the QB. 

[shasta519]

45 minutes ago, C_Lew said:

They traded Allen last night to Chicago for a 4th round pick, which only strengthens your point.

Thanks. I missed that somehow. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Keeping Gus Bradley was the worst mistake of the offseason IMO. His conservativeness is going to hurt this team so much for the future. The number of sacks we got last year was a mirage. There's no way that is sustainable the amount of times we blitz and the  amount of pressure we get. 

 

The secondary doesn't help either. Ballard needs to figure out a way to pay Sneed (if that's what's holding up the deal). If we go into the year without a no1 CB and some sort of competent S, we are in big trouble when you combine it with the lack of pressure we get on the QB. 

Buckner said Bradley could not call what he wanted because of the young secondary. So good id with some vets that would change. But right now this is not looking good.

[stitches]

For the record I will continue insisting that the biggest problem of this team's defensive philosophy is not Gus Bradley, but rather - Chris Ballard. Ballard is the one who wants to run that type of scheme. This is why he hired Eberflus and then Bradley and this is why he will hire another apple from the same tree even if Bradley is gone. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Seems like Chiefs are using other teams to figure out Sneeds value to extend him. This is why teams typically don’t go after franchise tagged players.

[runthepost]

7 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Buckner said Bradley could not call what he wanted because of the young secondary. So good id with some vets that would change. But right now this is not looking good.

Bradley history on teams would suggest he’s calling the same no matter who is out there

[RollerColt]

Just now, runthepost said:

Bradley history on teams would suggest he’s calling the same no matter who is out there

It was a complaint Jaguars fans had when he was the head coach. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, runthepost said:

Bradley history on teams would suggest he’s calling the same no matter who is out there

I am just saying what Buckner said. It was clear there were some things Gus did not feel he could do with how young they were.

[stitches]

Aaron Donald just retired! Wow! The best defensive player of this generation and one of the best ever... Congrats to him for an amazing career. 

[DougDew]

31 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

And PC was here from 2019-2022 and had R2 draft capital. Would it have made sense to draft a similar WR type early or sign one in FA?

 

And before PC, they brought in Grant, who was more a slot WR. 

 

Funchess was an attempt to get an X WR, which they found in MPJ a year later. 

 

The rest are a mix of traitsy, athletic pass catchers like Cain, Fountain and AP, Woods, Ogletree, etc. This has become Ballard's calling card recently for all players he drafts.

 

Granson was def a Reich pick though. He was meant to be a Trey Burton type I think.

Agreed for the most part.  Granson is a good example too.  I was just countering this notion that Frank wanted only big, slow, nonellusive, contested catching type of WRs; and Ballard's drafting just doesn't support that position, IMO. 

[chad72]

 

[Superman]

3 hours ago, chad72 said:

OK @Shive @Superman @shasta519 @OhioColt what were your evaluations of Skyy Moore when he was in the draft?

 

Do you think he’s a good buy low candidate for a 6th or 7th rounder? Not sure if he’s available but just wanted to hear your thoughts.

 

I liked him, he was quick and shifty, had some YAC potential, he even made contested catches in college. That was before I was really locked in on how much the Colts love RAS candidates. Everyone we drafted that year was a 9.25 or higher, and several of our UDFAs were RAS standouts. Moore is a 7.49. 

 

Since he got drafted, he had the dreaded hamstring issues, and mostly has been a non factor for the Chiefs, despite them being starved for WR production in 2023. He did have some catches in the playoffs in 2022, including in the SB. He didn't play in the playoffs this year. I don't know what the story is, but he's obviously not caught on there. And I haven't watched him carefully -- hard to do so when he's nailed to the bench -- so I can't really give an opinion. I wouldn't mind giving a late conditional pick for him, just based on how I felt about him in 2022. 

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

Aaron Donald just retired! Wow! The best defensive player of this generation and one of the best ever... Congrats to him for an amazing career. 

 

WOW! One of my favorite players of all time. I know he kicked this around a couple years ago, so it's not totally out of the blue, but it's still a surprise. He'll be missed. Not by QBs...

[w87r]

 

 

[RollerColt]

Enjoy the good life, Aaron! One of my favorite defensive players. Game wrecker on the field, but super classy off of it. 

[ChuggaBeer]

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

can you imagine those people next month when the eclipse happens? They won’t know what to do… 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

37 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

You realize fans say this every year and then we get to TC and it is not fixed. It’s the same song  and dance every year. Some of you fans should have figured this out by now.

Stephon Gilmore wasn’t signed until April… Justin Houston wasn’t signed until March 21st. 
 

its the first week of free agency and you are complaining that holes haven’t been addressed, knowing full well how Ballard approaches free agency. And then you say that “some of you should have figured this out by now.” Lol

[Colts1324]

I can’t imagine giving up $35 million by not playing one more year when you are still arguable the best defensive player in the game. 
Happy for him & his family tho

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

A rams reporter was asked by a fan what he thought of Blackmon after the Curl signing. The Rams reporter said he heard there were medical concerns. Wonder what that is all about?

[ColtStrong2013]

3 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

A rams reporter was asked by a fan what he thought of Blackmon after the Curl signing. The Rams reporter said he heard there were medical concerns. Wonder what that is all about?

It could be just injury history… As much as the Colts liked him, there is definitely concerns to not bring him back when everyone else was… 
 

[Jason_]

13 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Stephon Gilmore wasn’t signed until April… Justin Houston wasn’t signed until March 21st. 
 

its the first week of free agency and you are complaining that holes haven’t been addressed, knowing full well how Ballard approaches free agency. And then you say that “some of you should have figured this out by now.” Lol

 

i know, right?  oh the irony lol

[Shive]

3 hours ago, chad72 said:

OK @Shive @Superman @shasta519 @OhioColt what were your evaluations of Skyy Moore when he was in the draft?

 

Do you think he’s a good buy low candidate for a 6th or 7th rounder? Not sure if he’s available but just wanted to hear your thoughts.

I was fairly "meh" on him. For a player his size, I didn't think he did a good enough job consistently creating separation. He tested well, but I didn't see that level of athleticism show up on tape as much as I would have liked. I think he was a guy you could draft late and hope he developed, but he didn't move the needle much for me, especially since Downs was my draft crush.

 

13 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

A rams reporter was asked by a fan what he thought of Blackmon after the Curl signing. The Rams reporter said he heard there were medical concerns. Wonder what that is all about?

I'm assuming it's from a perspective of injury history vs a current injury. Blackmon has spent more of his NFL career injured than not, so I understand the concern.

[Shive]

9 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

It could be just injury history… As much as the Colts liked him, there is definitely concerns to not bring him back when everyone else was… 
 

I'll bet that the Colts are wanting to bring him back on a one year prove it deal, Ala Tyquan Lewis, to make sure he can stay healthy and Blackmon is looking for some longer-term security. 

[cbear]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I am just tired of relying on young late round draft picks in the secondary. 

Wasn't Blackmon, cross, Brents all top 3 picks? 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, cbear said:

Wasn't Blackmon, cross, Brents all top 3 picks? 

Blackmon was round 3. Really wasn’t talking about Brent’s. He showed enough if he can stay healthy. But you can’t keep relying on 6th 7th or undrafted guys.

[Shive]

On the safety topic, I'm intrigued by Jordan Fuller. He was voted a captain 2 years in a row with the Rams, was a captain at Ohio State, and has been a solid deep safety whose a willing tackler. He checks the boxes for Ballard, although he did test very average at the combine. He had an injury that kept him out most of 2022, but bounced right back in 2023. He seems the the ascending talent that Ballard goes after.

 

He's meeting with the Panthers this week, so me mentioning him probably means he ends up signing there, but I'm holding out hope.

[ColtStrong2013]

11 minutes ago, Shive said:

I'll bet that the Colts are wanting to bring him back on a one year prove it deal, Ala Tyquan Lewis, to make sure he can stay healthy and Blackmon is looking for some longer-term security. 

yeah and the colts not willing to do it probably makes other teams hesitant. Especially him being the odd ball out of all that were retained by us.

[jskinnz]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

You guys say this every year. Nothing happens. You are all like just edit it just started. Nothing happenes.

1) Free Agency isn’t over yet

 

2) The draft has not happened yet

 

3) I’d bet an awful lot of money that once they do sign and / or draft DB or two, you will be on here chastising people for not waiting on the process to play out as I’ve never seen someone argue both sides of something as you do, often within the same thread. 
 

 

[Superman]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I saved your post for the end of the day.  I knew there would be much to talk about.  But I’m sorry to say I’m still having trouble understanding you.   Apologies again, this is a very long response. 
 

I think you’re trying to have it both ways.  You say you understand that Ballard will make moves next week and beyond and there’s still the draft,  yet you’re complaining about the moves we’ve done to date.   Which will it be? 
 

As to your rake and shovel argument…   You got the rake now, you’re getting the shovel later.   Just as you did with DE’s like Ebukum, Houston, Autry and Ngokwe.   You can complain that you want the shovel first, but you know those guys go for huge money that Ballard typically doesn’t pay.  (Buckner is the one exception). But as my list above shows, Ballard has found shovels that have been very helpful.  So between FA and the draft, I’m still expecting at least one more shovel, maybe two. 
 

As to the “middling group of D lineman” didn’t that group just finish 4th or 5th in the NFL in sacks?  And you’re going to bring up not enough pressures and my answer to that is Charlie Partridge.  Look, you know Ballard can’t get rid of his D lineman so instead he brings in a guy he believes will help them all get more pressures.  I’m not saying you have to love Partridge as I do, all I’m suggesting is Ballard had a plan in place and you seem reluctant at best to acknowledge it.  
 

Regarding why I brought up Partridge in the first place it’s because YOU asserted Partridge had influence in asset allocation.  
And you said you’d be worried if Ballard was listening to CP about asset allocation.  I stated that was not true, that spending is entirely up to Ballard.  Your argument was incorrect.   I don’t know how and why we’re missing each other on this? 
 

You think Ballard spending $84m on run defense is a mistake.  I acknowledged the Franklin signing was a shock to all.  But you know that stopping the run is job #1 in defense.  Stop the run and make the other guy have to pass and make them more predictable.   So I disagree that the argument is over-stated simply because we survived well enough when Stewart was out.  Ballard knows your stats too. 
 

And in making the argument that it wasn’t just Stewart or Bryan, you forget that Ballard has said that Indy is not a FA destination location unless we pay a premium.   So I believe Ballard tries to instill in his players to play hard and smart and the Colts will reward you.  Either with a good second contract or to let you go to the highest bidder.  Ballard has always said a player should take the best second contract they can get even if it’s with another team.   So letting Grover go and trying to sign a cheaper version is contrary to the view of keeping your best in house. 

 

I’m sorry we are seeing so much so differently.   I hope some of my arguments give you at least some food for thought. 
Thanks for your patience. 

 

You brought up Partridge. Maybe I misunderstood your reason for bringing him up, but it was not my assertion that he was influencing Ballard's resource allocation. I thought that was the point you were making, but I think we're on the same page there now.

 

About the shovel and the rake, my concern is that we have a $20 gift card at Home Depot, and the shovel costs $20, but you brought me the rake because it was only $16. I can use the rake, but it's not going to replace the shovel, and now I don't have enough left on the gift card to get the shovel. I'm not trying to have it both ways, and I'm not worried about the order of operation. My thinking is that, after committing these resources, we've limited our ability to improve the pass rush.

 

There are different ways to make it work. I just think it would have been better to use those resources on different players at different positions. I also think that's a pretty simple position to take.

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, Jason_ said:

 

Were we relying on young, late round draft picks because that's what Ballard wanted to go into the season with?  Or was it due to the multiple injuries that occurred to the guys who would have otherwise been the starters?

Well their starters at the start of the year were Baker and Flowers before the injuries happened.  Both of whom were undrafted free agents so she does have a point.  However that point only goes so far because Jones the sixth round pick way out played Brents the second round pick.  
 

As I’ve said before once you get in the league it doesn’t matter where you were drafted it matters how you play.  

[Superman]

53 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

 

Calvin Ridley was injured most of 2021, and then suspended all of 2022. And still had basically the same amount of yards and TDs, on fewer catches. 

[Jason_]

6 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Well their starters at the start of the year were Baker and Flowers before the injuries happened.  Both of whom were undrafted free agents so she does have a point.  However that point only goes so far because Jones the sixth round pick way out played Brents the second round pick.  
 

As I’ve said before once you get in the league it doesn’t matter where you were drafted it matters how you play.  

 

Dude....never, ever say that again!

[Tsarquise]

54 minutes ago, w87r said:

 

 

Aw man, that's too bad that he is retiring. What a phenomenal player! 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Jones did not outplay Brent’s. He was healthy but when Brent’s was healthy he was the better corner.