Colts offseason discussion / Ballard Grievances (merge)

[w87r]

11 minutes ago, AKB said:

so we will almost be guaranteed to do some restructuring if we do get a big name guy ?

 

 

$5.9m if we move on from Mo, gets us up to $26-$27m by itself.

 

Even if we sign Snead, let's say, to a $20m AAV deal, his cap hit would likely be around $15m in year 1.

 

Also keep in mind draft picks will count a little under $3m against top 51.

 

Also, once top 51 rules expire(long time from now), a minimum of $1.8m will be added back on to cover the (2) extra players to get to top 53.

 

Then another $2.5m(ish) for the practice squad.

 

So if we cut Mo:

$27m - $3m(draft picks) - $2.5m(practice squad) - $1.8m(roster to 53) = $19.7m left.

 

Not including in season funds

 

 

We can save a bunch of money rather easily, I have posted what some examples look like here in the thread. If you didn't see them here they are posted on page 1 or 2 of my salary cap thread. How much we can save, etc...

[richard pallo]

Just now, Colt Overseas said:

Shaping up to be like most other off-season under Ballard. Re-sign our own, few mid-tier and min vet signings. Build through the draft. Maybe this year we make the playoffs. But if not, and we have the same issues as last season, you’d have to think where we’re going with Ballard and his roster construction philosophy.

Ballard said in his presser that he as gone after some big fish in the past but he lost out to other teams.   We might be heading down that road again.  He also said you need to pay market value.  It is what is.  Will he pay?  He has paid for our own.  Now will he pay for a new player?  We are about to find out.

[NFLfan]

27 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Yep.  Our 1st rd pick and Pierce.  

 

[NFLfan]

30 minutes ago, runthepost said:

Wouldn’t even be close to a deal. More like 2 first, a second and Pierce

Exactly.

 

I hope we will sign JJ, but if not I will take 2 firsts and maybe Pierce or a Second. Pierce is still young. I think Pierce will play well with Richardson.

[GoColts8818]

10 minutes ago, w87r said:

 

 

$5.9m if we move on from Mo, gets us up to $26-$27m by itself.

 

Even if we sign Snead, let's say, to a $20m AAV deal, his cap hit would likely be around $15m in year 1.

 

Also keep in mind draft picks will count a little under $3m against top 51.

 

Also, once top 51 rules expire(long time from now), a minimum of $1.8m will be added back on to cover the (2) extra players to get to top 53.

 

Then another $2.5m(ish) for the practice squad.

 

So if we cut Mo:

$27m - $3m(draft picks) - $2.5m(practice squad) = $21.5m left.

 

 

We can save a bunch of money rather easily, J have posted what some examples look like here in the thread. If you didn't see them here they are posted on page 1 or 2 of my salary cap thread. How much we can save, etc...

I am going to try to put myself in the shoes of Chris Ballard for a second and think how I think he would think not necessarily what I personally would do.

 

I think he would start with extending Buckner because if you are keeping Grover for three more years it makes sense to keep his running buddy and maybe your best player too.  I could see at least a two year extension to tie him to Grover and perhaps move on from both at the sametime when their contracts are up.  I would also entertain a three extension for him as well.  
 

After that I would look at maybe cutting Mo.  it’s pretty clear the Colts like Mo for whatever reason so that’s why I don’t think releasing him would be their first move to free up money but it’s undoubtedly a move that does make sense.  

[lester]

14 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I am a Ball State grad who wants to see a fellow Cardinal make it in the NFL but why?

 

Chirp Chirp

[GoColts8818]

8 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Ballard said in his presser that he as gone after some big fish in the past but he lost out to other teams.   We might be heading down that road again.  He also said you need to pay market value.  It is what is.  Will he pay?  He has paid for our own.  Now will he pay for a new player?  We are about to find out.

He has may I introduce you to Deforest Buckner who not only he traded a first round pick for but gave him a huge new contract as part of the deal.  
 

I know they didn’t work out but he also paid for Wentz and Ryan whose contracts were not cheap.  As much as people made fun of it he made Gay the highest paid player at his position to get him.

 

So there is no question he will pay if he feels the price is right for the player.  What he’s not going to do is over pay and end up in a situation like the Bills or Chargers were in this off-season.

[w87r]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think he would start with extending Buckner because if you are keeping Grover for three more years it makes sense to keep his running buddy and maybe your best player too.  I could see at least a two extension to tie him to Grover and perhaps move on from both at the sametime when their contracts are up.  I would also entertain a three extension for him as well.  

My projection:

Deforest Buckner:($22,750,000)

Current deal - 1yr $22.75m, $2.5m guaranteed/already paid

New deal - 3yr $60m, $36.25m guaranteed

2024 - $15m guaranteed

2025 - $21.25m guaranteed

2026 - $23.75m non guaranteed 

 

2024 Savings - $7.75m

 

 

Current deal ramifications:

2024 Savings if Cut/Traded - $20.25m

2024 Dead Cap - $2.5m

 

 

**Changed this up a little from my initial projection, $15m 2024 cap hit, instead of $17.5m.

 

5 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

After that I would look at maybe cutting Mo.  it’s pretty clear the Colts like Mo for whatever reason so that’s why I don’t think releasing him would be their first move to free up money but it’s undoubtedly a move that does make sense.  

Good thing is there is no deadline we have to hit to save money.

 

We can take our time and be patient. Maybe they can find a trade partner, even if for a 6th or 7th. I'd be good.

 

Need those funds though.

[w87r]

11 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

[GoColts8818]

Just now, w87r said:

My projection:

Deforest Buckner:($22,750,000)

Current deal - 1yr $22.75m, $2.5m guaranteed/already paid

New deal - 3yr $60m, $36.25m guaranteed

2024 - $15m guaranteed

2025 - $21.25m guaranteed

2026 - $23.75m non guaranteed 

 

2024 Savings - $7.75m

 

 

Current deal ramifications:

2024 Savings if Cut/Traded - $20.25m

2024 Dead Cap - $2.5m

 

 

**Changed this up a little from my initial projection, $15m 2024 cap hit, instead of $17.5m.

 

Good thing is there is no deadline we have to hit to save money.

 

We can take our time and be patient. Maybe they can find a trade partner, even if for a 6th or 7th. I'd be good.

 

Need those funds though.

If they can truly get Bowers maybe Ballard will wait to see if that happens first?  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Colt Overseas]

5 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I am going to try to put myself in the shoes of Chris Ballard for a second and think how I think he would think not necessarily what I personally would do.

 

I think he would start with extending Buckner because if you are keeping Grover for three more years it makes sense to keep his running buddy and maybe your best player too.  I could see at least a two extension to tie him to Grover and perhaps move on from both at the sametime when their contracts are up.  I would also entertain a three extension for him as well.  
 

After that I would look at maybe cutting Mo.  it’s pretty clear the Colts like Mo for whatever reason so that’s why I don’t think releasing him would be their first move to free up money but it’s undoubtedly a move that does make sense.  

They probably like Mo as he is their best in-line blocker. Ogletree and Woods have showed a small bit of a potential but right now given their situations I don’t think the Colts can put all their eggs in that basket. I think if they cut Mo it’ll be after the preseason games if they think they have a good enough blocking tight end to take over.

[PeterBowman]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

Who's he?

[w87r]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

If they can truly get Bowers maybe Ballard will wait to see if that happens first?  

Yeah no rush, we aren't strapped for cash at the moment either.

 

Now we make.the Sneed deal, it might accelerate it.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, PeterBowman said:

Who's he?

Someone on twitter, take it with a grain of salt.  Doesn’t mean it’s wrong but it 100% doesn’t mean it’s true either.

[PeterBowman]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

Someone on twitter, take it with a grain of salt.  Doesn’t mean it’s wrong but it 100% doesn’t mean it’s true either.

Very true....wasn't sure the reliability 

[richard pallo]

3 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

Close but no cigar?  

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

They probably like Mo as he is their best in-line blocker. Ogletree and Woods have showed a small bit of a potential but right now given their situations I don’t think the Colts can put all their eggs in that basket. I think if they cut Mo it’ll be after the preseason games if they think they have a good enough blocking tight end to take over.

Could be all I know is I heard all last off-season how cutting Mo made so much sense yet he’s still here starting more often than not so clearly they like something fans don’t see or value.  Doesn’t mean he will make the final roster but I do think him being released is far from a sure thing even if I personally don’t think much of him as a player.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

Who's he?

He has been on top of this for awhile.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

He has been on top of this for awhile.

Says who?  Nothing has happened to prove if anything he is tweeting is true or not.  

[chad72]

Another team in the QB race in the draft, AGAIN!!!

 

 

[RollerColt]

Just now, chad72 said:

Another team in the QB race in the draft, AGAIN!!!

 

 

The Steelers were in the draft race for a QB? 

 

They just signed Wilson. I also don't see the Eagles looking in the draft either. 

[richard pallo]

4 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

They probably like Mo as he is their best in-line blocker. Ogletree and Woods have showed a small bit of a potential but right now given their situations I don’t think the Colts can put all their eggs in that basket. I think if they cut Mo it’ll be after the preseason games if they think they have a good enough blocking tight end to take over.

Ballard said people don’t realize how hard it is to find a TE who can block.  He undoubtedly values that skill.  Moe is that guy right now.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

Another team in the QB race in the draft, AGAIN!!!

 

 

I remember when the Steelers fans I worked with made fun of the Colts taking Richardson and saying they were so glad they took Pickett the year before so they didn’t have to draft any QB in this draft lol.

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

The Steelers were in the draft race for a QB? 

 

They just signed Wilson. I also don't see the Eagles looking in the draft either. 

 

Now, they are. I don't know why Kenny Pickett agreed to this, if he stuck around, Russell Wilson could have played himself out. Mason Rudolph signed with the Titans. There is a good chance if a QB drops, The Steelers pick a QB. That is what I was getting at.

 

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

I remember when the Steelers fans I worked with made fun of the Colts taking Richardson and saying they were so glad they took Pickett the year before so they didn’t have to draft any QB in this draft lol.

 

That was a terrible draft for QBs, and the Steelers chose poorly.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, RollerColt said:

The Steelers were in the draft race for a QB? 

 

They just signed Wilson. I also don't see the Eagles looking in the draft either. 

Wilson signed a very cheap one year deal.  I don’t think they are looking to try to get a top three guy by any means but they are probably hoping to get a guy later on who can learn from Rus and take over if Rus doesn’t work out or sit behind Rus for a year or two if Rus does work out.

[RollerColt]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

Wilson signed a very cheap one year deal.  I don’t think they are looking to try to get a top three guy by any means but they are probably hoping to get a guy later on who can learn from Rus and take over if Rus doesn’t work out or sit behind Rus for a year or two if Rus does work out.

Ah I missed it was a 1 year deal. 

 

Still, being in the QB hunt in the draft at pick 20 is... interesting. I guess they could be looking to trade up? 

[w87r]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

Could be all I know is I heard all last off-season how cutting Mo made so much sense yet he’s still here starting more often than not so clearly they like something fans don’t see or value.  Doesn’t mean he will make the final roster but I do think him being released is far from a sure thing even if I personally don’t think much of him as a player.  

It wasn't as easy as it was last year.

 

Last year, we would've needed to do it before the season. If we did there would of been a $2.39m dead cap hit, only saving around $3m.(still good savings)

 

Then Woods gets hurt in camp, so now we need to keep Mo to start the season.

 

Then once the season started, his whole salt became guaranteed. So after the trade deadline there was no option to keep him really(unless Woods was ready to return). We saved no money if we released him. (Spotrac currently shows the guaranteed funds after season started)

 

 

This year there is no attachments. Can clear $5.9m with no fallout.

 

I firmly believe he will be gone, it's not of if, it's a when? But as I stated there isn't any big hurry to make that decision.

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Ah I missed it was a 1 year deal. 

 

Still, being in the QB hunt in the draft at pick 20 is... interesting. I guess they could be looking to trade up? 

Penix might fit well at 20.  Looks like Vikes are going to trade up for a QB.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, w87r said:

It wasn't as easy as it was last year.

 

Last year, we would've needed to do it before the season. If we did there would of been a $2.39m dead cap hit, only saving around $3m.(still good savings)

 

Then Woods gets hurt in camp, so now we need to keep Mo to start the season.

 

Then once the season started, his whole salt became guaranteed. So after the trade deadline there was no option to keep him really(unless Woods was ready to return). We saved no money if we released him. (Spotrac currently shows the guaranteed funds after season started)

 

 

This year there is no attachments. Can clear $5.9m with no fallout.

 

I firmly believe he will be gone, it's not of if, it's a when? But as I stated there isn't any big hurry to make that decision.

Yeah I am not saying I am going to be surprised if he does get released or even against it,  it makes sense.  I just don’t think it’s a lock.  Again, I heard all of this last year too and yet he’s still here.  
 

If I were running the Colts he would have been released last year but what do I know?  I clearly don’t run the Colts either.

[Dobbinblitz]

10 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

If they can truly get Bowers maybe Ballard will wait to see if that happens first?  

You never know, but virtually no one is projecting Bowers to still be there at 15.

This may change if he continues to not be available to work out. He did not work out at the combine and missed the Georgia Pro Day with a Hamstring injury. Will not work out now until April 10th for NFL teams. Love it if he dropped to 15.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Dobbinblitz said:

You never know, but virtually no one is projecting Bowers to still be there at 15.

This may change if he continues to not be available to work out. He did not work out at the combine and missed the Georgia Pro Day with a Hamstring injury. Will not work out now until April 10th for NFL teams. Love it if he dropped to 15.

That’s why I said IF.  Trust me I don’t expect him to be there at 15.  I’ve never bought that all along.

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

I’d be more interested in the trade cost.  I don’t have an issue with the money.  

I see several saying this, but it’s been reported that the trade compensation is no longer the issue. It’s the money that is the holdup. 
 

 

[RollerColt]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Penix might fit well at 20.  Looks like Vikes are going to trade up for another.

Makes sense. I'd be all for them trying to trade up so yet another QB gets taken off before us and pushing other talents to our laps. 

[Patrick Miller]

Why would the Eagles make that trade?

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Patrick Miller said:

Why would the Eagles make that trade?

Backup QB.

[Patrick Miller]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

Backup QB.

Seems a bit of steep price

[GoColts8818]

10 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I see several saying this, but it’s been reported that the trade compensation is no longer the issue. It’s the money that is the holdup. 
 

 

I’d said speculated more than reported but for sake of argument let’s say it has been agreed too.  It hasn’t been announced.  I am more interested in what the trade compensation is then what the contract will be (assuming it’s in line for cornerbacks and not QB money or something) because teams can find ways to manage the cap to make contracts work.  So depending on what they would be giving up to get him in terms of trade value depends more on if I would be okay with it.  For example if it’s a second and another pick Id be okay with it but if it costs number 15 in anyway I am not going to be crazy about it.

[Superman]

19 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

The Steelers were in the draft race for a QB? 

 

They just signed Wilson. I also don't see the Eagles looking in the draft either. 

 

Wilson is probably cooked, and they didn't commit serious money to him. Then they traded Pickett. So yeah, they're probably wanting to draft a QB. Maybe even in the first round. 

20 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Ballard said people don’t realize how hard it is to find a TE who can block.  He undoubtedly values that skill.  Moe is that guy right now.

 

I don't think Mo is all that good as a blocker. 

[w87r]

6 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

Why would the Eagles make that trade?

It's the equivalent of a low 4th round pick.

 

Never know, good backup and if he has to play maybe he increases his future potential compensation.