Leonard seems displeased with his role

[John Waylon]

 

[Nickster]

Just now, John Waylon said:

 

 

[chad72]

[SSColts]

We're displeased with Leonard's role also. 👌

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

It’s going to be him or Bradley or maybe both gone after the season. Throwing Bradley under the bus and not taking that to coaches privately is not good.

 

Just now, SSColts said:

We're displeased with Leonard's role also. 👌

I think he might be right and just doesn’t fit the system. It’s just another thing where Bradley refuses to change.

[DougDew]

Times of stress are usually more revealing.

[chad72]

7 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

It’s going to be him or Bradley or maybe both gone after the season. Throwing Bradley under the bus and not taking that to coaches privately is not good.

 

I think he might be right and just doesn’t fit the system. It’s just another thing where Bradley refuses to change.

 

The fact that he is removed on 3rd down could be attributed to the fact that they think he still doesn't have the same burst in coverage as he used to. You never know but will never find out unless the coaches are as candid as Leonard here is. So it may not be a system misfit after all, because Bradley's system is not that far off from Eberflus.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

The fact that he is removed on 3rd down could be attributed to the fact that they think he still doesn't have the same burst in coverage as he used to. You never know but will never find out unless the coaches are as candid as Leonard here is. So it may not be a system misfit after all, because Bradley's system is not that far off from Eberflus.

Yep. It’s him frustrated that he isn’t the same or Bradley isn’t allowing him to play as free. Probably will never know.

[Dobbinblitz]

Love the accountability by the coaching staff.  Leonard is just is not getting it done currently. Hoping he returns to form as this team could use his old presence on the field. 

[Nickster]

41 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

The fact that he is removed on 3rd down could be attributed to the fact that they think he still doesn't have the same burst in coverage as he used to. You never know but will never find out unless the coaches are as candid as Leonard here is. So it may not be a system misfit after all, because Bradley's system is not that far off from Eberflus.

 

Leonard was never very good in coverage.  I think the 3rd down thing is simple.  He's not good in coverage, therefore he comes out.

[IndySouthsider]

39 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Yep. It’s him frustrated that he isn’t the same or Bradley isn’t allowing him to play as free. Probably will never know.

He’s not playing poorly and the data suggests he is playing well

[PRnum1]

Leonards role

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I would love to hear colts side of this. Franklin might not play this week so maybe he will get more chances on third down.

[Nickster]

14 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

He’s not playing poorly and the data suggests he is playing well

According to PFF he's playing at a backup/replaceable level.  He earns that without being in on obvious passing downs.

 

Unless the staff is wrong and Shaq is not better at coverage than v the run, then it would be plausible that his PFF would drop dramatically if he was in on passing downs. 

 

He's not a very good LB at the moment.  Certainly not worth the lowest of salaries among ILBs. 

[IndySouthsider]

16 minutes ago, Nickster said:

According to PFF he's playing at a backup/replaceable level.  He earns that without being in on obvious passing downs.

 

Unless the staff is wrong and Shaq is not better at coverage than v the run, then it would be plausible that his PFF would drop dramatically if he was in on passing downs. 

 

He's not a very good LB.  Certainly not worth the lowest of salaries among ILBs. 

If I recall his grade had been starter level recently. Which is expected coming off his surgeries. One of the highest rated LB last week.

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, IndySouthsider said:

If I recall his grade had been starter level recently. Which is expected coming off his surgeries. One of the highest rated LB last week.

 

PFF has him at 64 which is considered backup/replaceable level.  And again, that is as a LB only in on running downs.

 

That ain't good.

 

Shaq looks like he's cruising to me.  He's slower no doubt, but that shouldn't stop him from trying to hit someone and knock the stuffing out of him.  He doesn't want to do it as far as I can tell.

 

Probably very wise for a rich man like him to play like that, but it doesn't make a very good ILB.

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

PFF has him at 64 which is considered backup/replaceable level. 

Aren't most of our players at or below that level?  I think Raimann, Kelly, Downs and Buckner are consistently above that, with Nelson hovering near it.

 

Golly.

[smittywerb]

don’t know how to feel about this.  I haven’t been a fan of Gus lately but Zaire seems to be doing just fine.  I think it’s a combination of Shaq trying to get back to his old form and him not just playing well.  
 

the old Shaq would’ve been the first to the ball carrier and forcing turnovers.  Current Shaq is usually last.  He’s been progressing however so honestly I think he needs to just stay the course.  This seems like frustration 

[Colt.45]

He needs to get truly healthy, then get his instincts back. Without that, he's certainly worse than the guys currently starting. Worse than Bobby O who joined the Giants. He's not worth the contract given.

 

With all that said, I'd argue that as long as he's healthy, the only way the instincts come back is by playing.

 

It stinks for him but this is football, it doesn't stop for anyone. Not Luck, not Peyton, and certainly not Shaq.

[John Waylon]

30 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

He’s not playing poorly and the data suggests he is playing well

The eye test data suggests this is not the same player we gave a $100 million contract to, though.

 

Is he a liability out there? No, but he’s just another guy now. You can’t be JAG and expect to get more playing time. 
 

Honestly, I feel like the “I need more playing time to make more splash plays” defense is a cheap one. Any depth player can make that argument. Where have the ones been in the time he’s gotten? 
 

No coaching staff in their right mind would keep the player that earned the nickname “maniac” off the field. And while I’m not ready to claim that Bradley and his staff are in their right minds, I still just don’t think that’s the issue in this case. 

 

He just doesn’t seem to be the same player he was no matter how good he says he feels. 

[JediXMan]

There’s many things I disagree with this defensive coaching staff with but how they’re handling Leonard right now isn’t one of it. He just looks not 100% and slower than the other LBers we have. It’s has simple as that.

[Solid84]

52 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Leonard was never very good in coverage.  I think the 3rd down thing is simple.  He's not good in coverage, therefore he comes out.

None of our LBs are good in coverage but Leonard actually grades out as our best. 

[Solid84]

31 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

PFF has him at 64 which is considered backup/replaceable level.  And again, that is as a LB only in on running downs.

 

That ain't good.

 

Shaq looks like he's cruising to me.  He's slower no doubt, but that shouldn't stop him from trying to hit someone and knock the stuffing out of him.  He doesn't want to do it as far as I can tell.

 

Probably very wise for a rich man like him to play like that, but it doesn't make a very good ILB.

Franklin is at 59.6

Speed 58.7

Leonard 63.9

 

He’s not playing up to his contract, but he’s still grading out as our best LB. What’s pulling Leonard’s overall grade down is his passrush ability, which I don’t really think is all that important for an off ball LB. 

[Boondoggle]

Having a second tier DC does not excuse Leonard for his play.

[Solid84]

27 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

The eye test data suggests this is not the same player we gave a $100 million contract to, though.

 

Is he a liability out there? No, but he’s just another guy now. You can’t be JAG and expect to get more playing time. 
 

Honestly, I feel like the “I need more playing time to make more splash plays” defense is a cheap one. Any depth player can make that argument. Where have the ones been in the time he’s gotten? 
 

No coaching staff in their right mind would keep the player that earned the nickname “maniac” off the field. And while I’m not ready to claim that Bradley and his staff are in their right minds, I still just don’t think that’s the issue in this case. 

 

He just doesn’t seem to be the same player he was no matter how good he says he feels. 

He is playing little below his pre-injury level, but what’s really missing is the turnovers. 

[PRnum1]

How can he create turnovers when hes doing this ?

 

[John Waylon]

5 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

He is playing little below his pre-injury level, but what’s really missing is the turnovers. 

Honestly what’s bothering me more than the turnovers is his representation of the defense, for a lack of a better term. When he was DPOY contender he was the heart, soul, and swagger of this defense. He was the big dog and when he barked it helped spark and get the defense hyped. He was an emotional leader. Now he’s just… there. The spark doesn’t seem to be there, and that’s unfortunate because that shouldn’t have been affected at all by the injury. 

[Solid84]

30 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Honestly what’s bothering me more than the turnovers is his representation of the defense, for a lack of a better term. When he was DPOY contender he was the heart, soul, and swagger of this defense. He was the big dog and when he barked it helped spark and get the defense hyped. He was an emotional leader. Now he’s just… there. The spark doesn’t seem to be there, and that’s unfortunate because that shouldn’t have been affected at all by the injury. 

I hear you and I agree, he’s lost his voice in the locker room to an extent. Because he was out for a long time, but also because Franklin stepped up as a leader and kinda took that spot from him. 
 

I do agree with Leonard that he’s not getting the freedom to do what he did in Eberflus’ scheme. That dings production. 

[Catloaf]

Our entire team is whining about making millions of dollars a year.

[Nickster]

31 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Franklin is at 59.6

Speed 58.7

Leonard 63.9

 

He’s not playing up to his contract, but he’s still grading out as our best LB. What’s pulling Leonard’s overall grade down is his passrush ability, which I don’t really think is all that important for an off ball LB. 

Better than bad ain't necessarily good lol.  He's the best of a bad bunch.  He needs to be cut as soon as is fiscally convenient.  That is presumably in the off season.

[Solid84]

4 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Better than bad ain't necessarily good lol.  He's the best of a bad bunch.  He needs to be cut as soon as is fiscally convenient.  That is presumably in the off season.

60.0 is average. By far the most players in the league are in that 55-65 range. I’d even say a consistent 60-65 grade is almost guaranteed to get a player a starter job somewhere. 
 

The problem is Leonard is paid as a top 5 off-ball LB and that means he needs consistent grades in the mid/late 70s.
 

He’s just not there right now and he hasn’t been for well over a year. We hope he can get there, but if it is the scheme that’s truly limiting him can we even expect him to get to that level again? And if we can’t is he or Bradley the issue?

[Nickster]

4 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

60.0 is average. By far the most players in the league are in that 55-65 range. I’d even say a consistent 60-65 grade is almost guaranteed to get a player a starter job somewhere. 
 

The problem is Leonard is paid as a top 5 off-ball LB and that means he needs consistent grades in the mid/late 70s.
 

He’s just not there right now and he hasn’t been for well over a year. We hope he can get there, but if it is the scheme that’s truly limiting him can we even expect him to get to that level again? And if we can’t is he or Bradley the issue?

 

I agree with you that the problem is the salary.  He's OK.  He's meh.  He's a JAG.  He's making superstar plus money.  That's the issue.  He need to be shown the door. 

 

I think the issue is Shaq. Regardless of the scheme and leg injury he can go hit somebody one time.  I'm not sure if I've seen him do that.

 

He looks like he doesn't care out there.  I don't blame him.  I think he's likely washed up and/or he's lost his fire.  I believe he is a family man.

He might be realizing that being multi millionaire and continuing to play football is dumb. 

[Zoltan]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

The fact that he is removed on 3rd down could be attributed to the fact that they think he still doesn't have the same burst in coverage as he used to. You never know but will never find out unless the coaches are as candid as Leonard here is. So it may not be a system misfit after all, because Bradley's system is not that far off from Eberflus.

 

I totally forgot this is his real first year playing in Bradley's system, I remember Kenny Moore was frustrated last year adapting and not having the freedom to make plays. Hopefully they'll be able to adjust and find common ground, as he continues to recover and get used to being on the field again.

 

[ColtsGermany]

I think it's ok to be frustrated. I mean most of us did some team sports somewhere in their live(or are still at it). So we all know, that if you aren't a starter, you wanted to be one and were fighting for it. Every player, that sits on the bench or plays 50 % and is fine with it, should not be a pro or payed like one . You always have to try to be the best. At least in your team, at your position. 

 

But : That he is speaking about his displeasure of usage publicly, is not a good move. Shouldn't do that. Talk about it with the coaches behind closed doors.

[Solid84]

23 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I agree with you that the problem is the salary.  He's OK.  He's meh.  He's a JAG.  He's making superstar plus money.  That's the issue.  He need to be shown the door. 

 

I think the issue is Shaq. Regardless of the scheme and leg injury he can go hit somebody one time.  I'm not sure if I've seen him do that.

 

He looks like he doesn't care out there.  I don't blame him.  I think he's likely washed up and/or he's lost his fire.  I believe he is a family man.

He might be realizing that being multi millionaire and continuing to play football is dumb. 

I just think it’s too early to call him done. 
 

I get the unhappiness with his performance given his contract, but I think it worth giving him a season in a new scheme with a new coach. He needs to get up to speed and adjust and Bradley needs to adjust to get the most out of his skill-set. 

[Blueblood23]

6 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I just think it’s too early to call him done. 
 

I get the unhappiness with his performance given his contract, but I think it worth giving him a season in a new scheme with a new coach. He needs to get up to speed and adjust and Bradley needs to adjust to get the most out of his skill-set. 

Then he should lay the wood to someone and show us he’s not done. Until then, he looks like he took the money and run. 

[Solid84]

2 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Then he should lay the wood to someone and show us he’s not done. Until then, he looks like he took the money and run. 

I’d like to think this is about more than just for him to hit an opponent hard. 

[Nickster]

17 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I just think it’s too early to call him done. 
 

I get the unhappiness with his performance given his contract, but I think it worth giving him a season in a new scheme with a new coach. He needs to get up to speed and adjust and Bradley needs to adjust to get the most out of his skill-set. 

I just don’t see him ever being a 20 mill LB.  But I didn’t in the 1st place.  
 

15 mill or so pay cut then fine IMo.

[Solid84]

Just now, Nickster said:

I just don’t see him ever being a 20 mill LB.  But I didn’t in the 1st place.  
 

15 mill or so pay cut then fine IMo.

I didn’t like it either and still don’t.

[w87r]

18 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Then he should lay the wood to someone and show us he’s not done. Until then, he looks like he took the money and run. 

https://www.colts.com/video/highlight-shaquille-leonard-is-as-fast-as-a-hiccup-on-tfl-vs-tank-bigsby