Jim Irsay “we’ll see” on Shaq Leonard (MERGE)

[Chrisaaron1023]

Changes his name and never plays again 

[throwing BBZ]

Ideally he is unable to pass a physical for the whole of next season then we move on if in next years pre-season he isn't extremely close to his former self. 

[Blueblood23]

19 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Maybe there’s no reason to be frustrated.   
 

Maybe there is no reason to have drafted a linebacker.  
 

Maybe Shaq will be ready on 9/1.   Maybe 10/1.   Maybe 11/1.   
 

Maybe the people who run the franchise have more inside info than the average fan.  
 

I know the news is not good — yet.  But the news may not be as bad as it’s being made out to be right now.   
 

Just food for thought…..    

 

Giving a lot of credit to people running the franchise with a 31-34 record the last four years. They need to be questioned.

[PRnum1]

29 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Giving a lot of credit to people running the franchise with a 31-34 record the last four years. They need to be questioned.

[NewColtsFan]

22 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Giving a lot of credit to people running the franchise with a 31-34 record the last four years. They need to be questioned.

After the draft, Ballard said there were a couple of linebackers they tried to draft, but they were taken before the Colts could.  
 

I strongly suspect the Colts will either claim a LB at the cut down deadline, or the team will make a modest trade.   I think LB will be addressed.   
 

As for the last four years?   I couldn’t care less about 19, 20, and 21.  (7-9, 11-5, 9-8).    But 2022 was deeply troubling.    Shook me to my core as a fan.    I’m off the Ballard bandwagon.   That said, as a fan who’s been around football for more than 55 years, I never allow myself to think I know more than a GM, even a bad GM, which Ballard is clearly not.   I may not always like what my favorite team does, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have legit reasons for what they do.  

[cdgacoltsfan]

Unfortunately, Leonard's career as a football player is over. He will start the season on injured reserve and not play a down. He will retire after the season.

[csmopar]

32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

After the draft, Ballard said there were a couple of linebackers they tried to draft, but they were taken before the Colts could.  
 

I strongly suspect the Colts will either claim a LB at the cut down deadline, or the team will make a modest trade.   I think LB will be addressed.   
 

As for the last four years?   I couldn’t care less about 19, 20, and 21.  (7-9, 11-5, 9-8).    But 2022 was deeply troubling.    Shook me to my core as a fan.    I’m off the Ballard bandwagon.   That said, as a fan who’s been around football for more than 55 years, I never allow myself to think I know more than a GM, even a bad GM, which Ballard is clearly not.   I may not always like what my favorite team does, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have legit reasons for what they do.  

Fair enough. And the concerns with the talent Ballard has picked are valid. And the lack of playmakers are high value positions is also a concern.
 

but i challenge those concerns with this.

 

Throughout all the QBs we had, to include Luck, we saw the same basic play calling and game planning shortfalls. I think superstars like Luck and Rivers were able to mask those shortfalls more than Wentz and Ryan or any of the others. Once the masked shortfalls were exposed, other areas were also weakened and exposed. 
 

For example, the weird personnel rotations. Taking a player out of game when he’s lighting it up, or throwing only 1 pass an entire game? And then having to have a LG remind you to call something other than a pass play? That’s not on Ballard. That’s on Reich and company. 
 

the fact this time lost by 1 point to the eventually NFC Champions shows we at least have some talent. We just need a way to put it together. 
 

Reich in 2021 looked and sounds like Jim Mora when he finally went in over his head. If Reich flames out in Carolina, we will know for sure.  It even if he doesn’t, it won’t change my opinion the the wasn’t the right guy for the roster we have.

[w87r]

35 minutes ago, csmopar said:

the fact this time lost by 1 point to the eventually NFC Champions shows we at least have some talent. We just need a way to put it together. 

And beat the Super Bowl Champs.

[a06cc]

Colts need to be more transparent with these players being injured. I’m waiting for Shaq to actually say something until I get worried. 

[AKB]

6 hours ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

Not surprised lol. Oh well. Feel better bro. Next man up. Should've kept some our LBs..

lol you mean Okereke? 

 

The rest are still here dude. Leonard, Franklin, Speed. The only one missing is Okereke, we can't pay everyone. 

[csmopar]

28 minutes ago, a06cc said:

Colts need to be more transparent with these players being injured. I’m waiting for Shaq to actually say something until I get worried. 

There’s limits that they can reveal due to not only the league rules but also HIPPA 

[AKB]

42 minutes ago, csmopar said:

There’s limits that they can reveal due to not only the league rules but also HIPPA 

also there is no competitive advantage to releasing more information than not

[John Waylon]

10 hours ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

Gets the bag and never plays again 

Amended. 

[smittywerb]

On 7/10/2023 at 9:32 PM, MB-ColtsFan said:

Bob Sanders all over again.

*sigh*

 

you just made me cry.  Bob is my favorite colt :,(

[DougDew]

Has Moose seen this yet?  LOL.

 

BTW, has Leonard played much at all since he came out against the COVID vax so strongly....2020/2021?

 

Not being conspiratorial, but sometimes a person thinks about bigger issues, then loses mojo about less important things that he used to think were important.

 

And I agree.  There is no reason for him to retire.

[csmopar]

23 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Has Moose seen this yet?  LOL.

 

BTW, has Leonard played much at all since he came out against the COVID vax so strongly....2020/2021?

 

Not being conspiratorial, but sometimes a person thinks about bigger issues, then loses mojo about less important things that he used to think were important.

 

And I agree.  There is no reason for him to retire.

Honestly, no. He hasn’t really done much since he changed his name, kind of like when Ron Artest changed his…

[Peter Nova]

15 hours ago, Blueblood23 said:

Giving a lot of credit to people running the franchise with a 31-34 record the last four years. They need to be questioned.

Rebuild what you built!

[Peter Nova]

14 hours ago, csmopar said:

Fair enough. And the concerns with the talent Ballard has picked are valid. And the lack of playmakers are high value positions is also a concern.
 

but i challenge those concerns with this.

 

Throughout all the QBs we had, to include Luck, we saw the same basic play calling and game planning shortfalls. I think superstars like Luck and Rivers were able to mask those shortfalls more than Wentz and Ryan or any of the others. Once the masked shortfalls were exposed, other areas were also weakened and exposed. 
 

For example, the weird personnel rotations. Taking a player out of game when he’s lighting it up, or throwing only 1 pass an entire game? And then having to have a LG remind you to call something other than a pass play? That’s not on Ballard. That’s on Reich and company. 
 

the fact this time lost by 1 point to the eventually NFC Champions shows we at least have some talent. We just need a way to put it together. 
 

Reich in 2021 looked and sounds like Jim Mora when he finally went in over his head. If Reich flames out in Carolina, we will know for sure.  It even if he doesn’t, it won’t change my opinion the the wasn’t the right guy for the roster we have.

 

If, Reich succeeds in Carolina, it will definitely have an even more negative outlook of Ballard as GM. Everyone has their own opinions, but Ballard has had 6 seasons to build a roster that is simply bad. We can all nitpick, cherry pick, and sugar coat things but it doesn't change the fact the Colts are just plain bad at the moment. Hopefully, that changes soon, not in another 6 years.

[BlackTiger]

14 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

He will retire after the season.

His contract has him in a position where it doesnt make any sense to retire.  He will make a ton of money by doing little if he doesnt retire

 

the team will cut him before 2024 if he still isnt playing though.  the cap hit is too high to cut him now

[Peter Nova]

12 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

His contract has him in a position where it doesnt make any sense to retire.  He will make a ton of money by doing little if he doesnt retire

 

the team will cut him before 2024 if he still isnt playing though.  the cap hit is too high to cut him now

[Blueblood23]

14 hours ago, w87r said:

And beat the Super Bowl Champs.

Had the Chief’s been motivated for that game it would have turned out a lot different. That was the Colts super bowl.

[MikeCurtis]

21 hours ago, sb41champs said:

 

 

I'm fine with that - BECAUSE it's the only way to have him at 100%.

And that really is the big question....... Will Leonard EVER be 100% again?

 

I am an optimist thru and thru........

 

But

 

I wonder how many players have had a similar injury and came back 100%

 

So far, the medicals have not been good on Leonard...... Nerve repair isnt the same as a broken bone

 

I HOPE that he gets there......  but IMHO we will see Speed take his snaps this year

 

From Biomed Research :

 

"Unlike other tissues in the body, peripheral nerve regeneration is slow and usually incomplete. Less than half of patients who undergo nerve repair after injury regain good to excellent motor or sensory function"

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

[jvan1973]

35 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Had the Chief’s been motivated for that game it would have turned out a lot different. That was the Colts super bowl.

What makes you believe the Chiefs weren't motivated?

[Superman]

38 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Had the Chief’s been motivated for that game it would have turned out a lot different. That was the Colts super bowl.

 

It happens several times a year, it's not surprising. The Chiefs were the better, more talented team, but they didn't play great and made some mistakes. The Colts played a strong game, and made some plays. And it still took an unforced penalty against the Chiefs for us to win.

 

I'm always happy to see my team win, but I didn't walk away from that game thinking the season was going to take a strong, positive turn.

[GoColts8818]

I get the frustration people have about Leonard but the need to be right is going a little over board with some.  No one knows for a fact his career is over so saying it as a fact is little over the top.  Same with calls to release him right now.  It doesn’t make sense to do right now from a contract stand point.  If he doesn’t play this season yes that changes things and yes then it will make sense to move on from him so the time to have that discussion is after the season if he doesn’t play.  
 

Right now the truth is what Irsay is saying, we’ll see.  I can’t for the life of me think of a reason if you are a Colts fan you aren’t going to hope he does get healthy he does play and why you aren’t pulling for that unless you just want to be right on a message board and say look at me I was right.  Which goes back to something I’ve said for years some here would rather be right than see the Colts do well or something good happen for them.  
 

Is it a possibility he doesn’t play this year?   Yeah it is.  Is it possible his career is over or he’s never the same player he was?  Yeah it is.  Is there anything to be gained from proclaiming that’s the case before either has happened?  No there isn’t.

[csmopar]

2 hours ago, Peter Nova said:

 

If, Reich succeeds in Carolina, it will definitely have an even more negative outlook of Ballard as GM. Everyone has their own opinions, but Ballard has had 6 seasons to build a roster that is simply bad. We can all nitpick, cherry pick, and sugar coat things but it doesn't change the fact the Colts are just plain bad at the moment. Hopefully, that changes soon, not in another 6 years.

I don’t think the roster is bad. Not overall. I think   Ballard has focused too much on non premium positions and our talent is on positions that generally don’t score a lot of points. We need point scorers . That’s our weakness and I’m hoping Ballard has realized that. 

[csmopar]

53 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

And that really is the big question....... Will Leonard EVER be 100% again?

 

I am an optimist thru and thru........

 

But

 

I wonder how many players have had a similar injury and came back 100%

 

So far, the medicals have not been good on Leonard...... Nerve repair isnt the same as a broken bone

 

I HOPE that he gets there......  but IMHO we will see Speed take his snaps this year

 

From Biomed Research :

 

"Unlike other tissues in the body, peripheral nerve regeneration is slow and usually incomplete. Less than half of patients who undergo nerve repair after injury regain good to excellent motor or sensory function"

 

 

 

 

 

Only one player comes to mind… Peyton Manning

[PRnum1]

11 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I get the frustration people have about Leonard but the need to be right is going a little over board with some.  No one knows for a fact his career is over so saying it as a fact is little over the top.  Same with calls to release him right now.  It doesn’t make sense to do right now from a contract stand point.  If he doesn’t play this season yes that changes things and yes then it will make sense to move on from him so the time to have that discussion is after the season if he doesn’t play.  
 

Right now the truth is what Irsay is saying, we’ll see.  I can’t for the life of me think of a reason if you are a Colts fan you aren’t going to hope he does get healthy he does play and why you aren’t pulling for that unless you just want to be right on a message board and say look at me I was right.  Which goes back to something I’ve said for years some here would rather be right than see the Colts do well or something good happen for them.  
 

Is it a possibility he doesn’t play this year?   Yeah it is.  Is it possible his career is over or he’s never the same player he was?  Yeah it is.  Is there anything to be gained from proclaiming that’s the case before either has happened?  No there isn’t.

No you're right.

 

I think the cap hit to release him in 23 is something like 25M which is huge.  The cap hit to release him in 24 drops to something like 8M.

 

My hope was if he retired this season, we could possibly get some cap relief in 23, but I would have to defer to the capologists on this board.

 

But Colts are stuck with him in 23 and the only hope is he gets better and gives us some snaps later in the season and maybe some key turnovers.

 

I think the moral to the story is to never give large contracts to Linebackers which is now a devalued position in the NFL.  Linebackers are pretty much a dime a dozen.  Same with Running backs.

[Peter Nova]

11 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I don’t think the roster is bad. Not overall. I think   Ballard has focused too much on non premium positions and our talent is on positions that generally don’t score a lot of points. We need point scorers . That’s our weakness and I’m hoping Ballard has realized that. 

 

Which obviously has been a huge mistake on constructing the team over 6 years. At least the attaboys are less now and the seat is hot.  

 

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, Peter Nova said:

 

Which obviously has been a huge mistake on constructing the team over 6 years. At least the attaboys are less now and the seat is hot.  

 

I don’t think Ballard seat is hot. I really don’t. No way he takes a 3-4 year project player at QB if he doesn’t have Irsays by in. No, Ballard is here and safe for 3 years minimum

[Peter Nova]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

I don’t think Ballard seat is hot. I really don’t. No way he takes a 3-4 year project player at QB if he doesn’t have Irsays by in. No, Ballard is here and safe for 3 years minimum

I actually agree, although he should've been fired after last season, Richardson bought him a couple more years. Huge gamble, but brilliant on taking Richardson Ballard's part. 

 

 

[Blueblood23]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

What makes you believe the Chiefs weren't motivated?

Really? If you watched the game it was obvious to me they were going through the motions trying to get by for a win.

[jvan1973]

48 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I don’t think the roster is bad. Not overall. I think   Ballard has focused too much on non premium positions and our talent is on positions that generally don’t score a lot of points. We need point scorers . That’s our weakness and I’m hoping Ballard has realized that. 

Pittman. 2nd 

Taylor.     2nd

Pierce.     2nd

Woods.    3rd

Downs.    3rd

 

I don't think he has been ignoring getting play makers

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Really? If you watched the game it was obvious to me they were going through the motions trying to get by for a win.

It was the 3rd week into the season.   If they weren't motivated, Andy isn't the great coach we all know he is

[Blueblood23]

52 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I don’t think the roster is bad. Not overall. I think   Ballard has focused too much on non premium positions and our talent is on positions that generally don’t score a lot of points. We need point scorers . That’s our weakness and I’m hoping Ballard has realized that. 

The roster lacks playmakers. No elite wide receivers, pass rushers, lock down corner, quarterback. 

[Blueblood23]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

It was the 3rd week into the season.   If they weren't motivated, Andy isn't the great coach we all know he is

It’s how you finish, not how you start. Games are not important in the beginning of the year as they are later in the season. 

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, Blueblood23 said:

It’s how you finish, not how you start. Games are not important in the beginning of the year as they are later in the season. 

They all count the same

[Superman]

53 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I don’t think the roster is bad. Not overall. I think   Ballard has focused too much on non premium positions and our talent is on positions that generally don’t score a lot of points. We need point scorers . That’s our weakness and I’m hoping Ballard has realized that. 

 

I especially don't think the roster was bad in 2019 and 2020. The timeline that Ballard was working on was obliterated by Luck's retirement.

 

And then, rather than resetting around a young QB, they tried to patchwork their roster together and transition to some of the younger players, many of whom didn't develop as hoped. And we didn't have a transcendent QB to raise the floor, so some of the average position groups started to look even worse.

 

Ballard deserves plenty of blame IMO, but I think the 'this is a six year build' narrative requires ignoring a pretty significant development along the way.

[sb41champs]

One thing that truly bothers me in this day of 24/7/365 news is that people have become uber critical.

 

It burns me up when people bash a player (in any sport) for letting them down or the team down because they DARED to get injured.  

 

Shamey shamey lots of blamey!!

 

I'm as concerned as any Colts fan that Shaq the Maniac may never be back.

 

But - I'm MORE concerned about Shaq - the person - and - how this injury may impact him long-term.

 

Y'all aren't perfect - in body or in mind - so stop "the shame game" - PLEASE!!

[DougDew]

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

I especially don't think the roster was bad in 2019 and 2020. The timeline that Ballard was working on was obliterated by Luck's retirement.

Past history now, but at the time of his retirement, I was not impressed with the offensive pieces Luck would have had to work with.  A declining TY, a revolving door at X (was it Inman then Funchess for one year?), and who was the slot?, a malcontent at the Move TE spot with one year left; and while Mack was okay, he didn't scare anybody enough to take the focus off of Luck.

 

When Luck said it seemed like there was this "continuing pattern of injury then rehab", a part of me felt like he looked around the locker room right before the season started and told himself he was going to have to go right back to putting himself at high risk by carrying the team again.  Albeit with a better oline than what he had before Ballard.