Are Colts fans afraid to say the "T" word ?

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, Mighty Blue said:

Life ain’t all sunshine and rainbows. It’s a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently, if you let it!

You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life.

But it ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward.

THAT’S HOW WINNING IS DONE!

NO Bull(expletive ) tanking talk from me!

Mighty Blue
 

 

 

 

[hoosierhawk]

1 hour ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

There are going to be a lot of teams picking high that need a QB. Colts better hope Sam plays well or stinks. If we finish middle of pack we may not get one.

Yet you have been critical of Ballard for not drafting a QB but now you say if we finish in the middle of the pack we may not get one. So are you admitting that getting a franchise QB may not be a simple task?

[GoColts8818]

21 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Nfl teams don't tank despite the nonsense narrative.   Frank is coaching for his job, the players are playing to earn new contracts 

And to keep their current ones.  I’d encourage people to look up Robert Mathis post game after they beat the Texans in 2011 and someone asked them about maybe blowing the top overall pick.

 

not the rant after the Texans game but pretty close to it

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/veteran-colts-still-not-feeling-the-luck-as-they-drop-to-0-5-09000d5d822ff96c

[RollerColt]

6 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

And to keep their current ones.  I’d encourage people to look up Robert Mathis post game after they beat the Texans in 2011 and someone asked them about maybe blowing the top overall pick.

 

not the rant after the Texans game but pretty close to it

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/veteran-colts-still-not-feeling-the-luck-as-they-drop-to-0-5-09000d5d822ff96c

Yeah… what motivation would Jim give them… 

 

“Hey so we’re gonna tank this season, you’re going to lead the team to a bunch of losses and then get fired, all on purpose… sound like a good deal? No?”

[joecolts]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

Losers tank.

 

Just identify your QB and move up to get him, then build around him. 

I agree this is the best way to handle it.  The problem is, Chris Ballard is the GM and has proven by the product on the field that he’s incapable of fixing the problem.  He is the problem.   He built this hot mess and it’s squarely on his shoulders.  I just don’t have confidence he’ll be able or willing to proceed in this manner.  

[hoosierhawk]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

Losers tank.

 

Just identify your QB and move up to get him, then build around him. 

Agree with the first part Superman but you are over simplifying the second part. That like saying you you go to the senior prom, pick out the prettiest girl there and marry her, have a beautiful family and be happy ever after. The Oakland Raiders identified Jamarcus Russell we know how that workerd out. I agree as a Gm or an organization you have to make a damn hard decision and move on it but you make it sound so simple and certain and as we all know by now its a crap shoot and the odds aren't great that they all work out. I am sure some GMs identified Ryan Leaf in the Manning draft and we know how that turned out also. Many work out but many don't.

[jonjon]

9 hours ago, Smonroe said:

They’re trying their hardest, but they keep playing teams that find ways to be worse.  
 

Seriously though, players want to win and play well.  Their careers are too short.  Coaches and GMs don’t want to lose jobs.  And the team is too good to lose out.  
 

It’s going to take a bunch of picks, including next years #1 to find a trading partner.  Still don’t think we can get Stroud.  Houston and Detroit will be fighting for him.  Carolina will probably give up the farm too.  

? Houston already has a good QB. The Panthers and Lions will be jockeying for Stroud and Young. After that it gets iffy. Levis isn't haven't the dazzling year that many expected. 

 

If we can't get one of the top 2, I say load up elsewhere, like the OL, and shoot for the QB of the future in 2024. 

 

As for tanking, that's a myth. Coaches don't tank, GMs, don't tank, and players sure as hell don't tank, if for no other reason than their jobs are on the line and really it goes against their nature, which is to win. 

[NewColtsFan]

10 hours ago, PRnum1 said:

The T word ?  Yes TANKING.

 

That is the best thing for this franchise now.

 

Lets lose the next 10 games and go into the draft with a top 3 pick and get our QB for the next 10 years.

 

It does us no good to have 8-9 wins, miss the playoffs and pick around 20.

 

Then we would have to use picks to trade up to get our QB of the future.

 

We need to keep all those picks and fix the Oline and get our future QB at 3.

 

It makes no sense to trade all our picks, not fix the Oline and put our shiny new QB behind this horrible Oline and have him take a beating and turn into the next David Carr.

 

Sam will do fine, but we all know he's not a franchise QB, so let's go get one.

 

We only have 10 games left to lose, so lets lose them !!  We need to sacrifice and TAKE THE PAIN !!!

 

Whos with me ???

 

Its time to TANK !!!

 

 

 

I’ve got no problem with tanking.   But to be honest, it could easily turn into a TWO-YEAR tank job.   Who will be the QB in 2023?    
 

So if the Colts go full tank, how many fans will be patient?    I’m a very patient fan.   But most fans are not.   It puts enormous pressure on Irsay and whoever is the GM.  

[coltsfan_canada]

Let's say if we do tank what do u guys think who will be the GM to select our next pick?

 

Ballard and will he trade up to get his guy which we all know he loves his picks but will he trade to move up. 

 

Very interesting drama more than watching colt games this year. 

[EastStreet]

 

I don't mind (tanking) personally.

But it is a horrible look. 

And regardless where the fault/failure is tagged, the organization/team has become a sheet show. 

[superrep1967]

11 hours ago, PRnum1 said:

The T word ?  Yes TANKING.

 

That is the best thing for this franchise now.

 

Lets lose the next 10 games and go into the draft with a top 3 pick and get our QB for the next 10 years.

 

It does us no good to have 8-9 wins, miss the playoffs and pick around 20.

 

Then we would have to use picks to trade up to get our QB of the future.

 

We need to keep all those picks and fix the Oline and get our future QB at 3.

 

It makes no sense to trade all our picks, not fix the Oline and put our shiny new QB behind this horrible Oline and have him take a beating and turn into the next David Carr.

 

Sam will do fine, but we all know he's not a franchise QB, so let's go get one.

 

We only have 10 games left to lose, so lets lose them !!  We need to sacrifice and TAKE THE PAIN !!!

 

Whos with me ???

 

Its time to TANK !!!

 

 

 

How does anyone know how Ehlinger going to play he might be our next QB of the future for all we know.  I mean we haven't even seen him play in a real game yet and already he's the next Curtis Painter. It will take more than one game to determine it to it'll take several games and even then we may know for sure but he may stink but we don't know that yet just give it some time. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’ve got no problem with tanking.   But to be honest, it could easily turn into a TWO-YEAR tank job.   Who will be the QB in 2023?    
 

So if the Colts go full tank, how many fans will be patient?    I’m a very patient fan.   But most fans are not.   It puts enormous pressure on Irsay and whoever is the GM.  

Many fans won't put up with major losing 2 years in row. It wouldn't shock me if we did lose to Washington, a few in here will be hollering for Foles. Lol.

[EastStreet]

21 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Many fans won't put up with major losing 2 years in row. It wouldn't shock me if we did lose to Washington, a few in here will be hollering for Foles. Lol.

I really don't care (about QB) now. 

I'll still cheer for Sam, or Foles, or whoever is starting.

I like Sam as a guy/competitor though. 

But Indy looks like a joke right now. Top to bottom... 

[Superman]

4 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

Agree with the first part Superman but you are over simplifying the second part. That like saying you you go to the senior prom, pick out the prettiest girl there and marry her, have a beautiful family and be happy ever after. The Oakland Raiders identified Jamarcus Russell we know how that workerd out. I agree as a Gm or an organization you have to make a damn hard decision and move on it but you make it sound so simple and certain and as we all know by now its a crap shoot and the odds aren't great that they all work out. I am sure some GMs identified Ryan Leaf in the Manning draft and we know how that turned out also. Many work out but many don't.

 

Never suggested it's certain, but it is simple. 

 

If you pick the wrong QB, that's a different issue. 

[b a y s k i]

Tanking only exists in barsports fans mind. People like having a job you know.

[Myles]

13 hours ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

 

 

So yeah, tanking is not a good strategy. Having coaches who could identify NFL translatable QB talents and having a GM who could employ quality scouts to have a process to identify such talent is much more necessary to get that franchise QB. If Ballard and Reich don't have that, they're not going anywhere with their process. 

If a team is certain that they will not make the playoffs, tanking IS a good strategy.  Not only do you get a better 1st round pick, but all your other picks are better.  Drafting 6th is much better for the team than drafting 17th.   

[VikingsFanInChennai]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

If a team is certain that they will not make the playoffs, tanking IS a good strategy.  Not only do you get a better 1st round pick, but all your other picks are better.  Drafting 6th is much better for the team than drafting 17th.   

If a team cannot win any games most often even if they try by all means, I'd think at some point they'd accept and look forward to improving the roster with better picks and also get excited for a chance of getting a franchise QB. They've a better chance of being in bottom 10 already, and will accept an opportunity to get top 5 draft pick next. 

 

But, for a middling team, it just is going to improve by a small margin. Going from 15th to closer to top 5 is difficult, especially this season. 

 

I didn't mean to say tanking doesn't help, but I meant tanking without having ability to identify the right QB more often only ends up demoralizing the quality players on the roster and leads nowhere. 

[Orioles22]

If you're 1-13 and you have an Andrew Luck waiting in the draft, it might be something to consider.

If you're 3-3-1, I think it's insane. You try to win and get in the playoffs and see what happens.

So what if we get a pick around 10-15. It's time to put together a package and move up and get someone - Levis, I hope.

[2006Coltsbestever]

13 minutes ago, Orioles22 said:

If you're 1-13 and you have an Andrew Luck waiting in the draft, it might be something to consider.

If you're 3-3-1, I think it's insance to consider. You try to win and get in the playoffs and see what happens.

So what if we get a pick around 10-15. It's time to put together a package and move up and get someone - Levis, I hope.

Yeah I have always said unless a team gets to 0-8 and there is an Andrew Luck coming out, then tank. Other wise to me tanking is a loser mentality and I don't believe in it. I believe in changes being made if a team is like 0-7 or 1-6 which makes sense. We are freaking 3-3-1 with a Hall of Fame QB and have a better record than over half the teams in the league. If a team makes the playoffs, they always have a chance to win it all so I don't get what is going on. Giants won it all at 9-7 by beating the Pats in the SB  . Matt is injured so we had no choice this week to play Sam but our FO saying Matt is done for the season is lame.  

 

Imagine if we would have gave up on the 1995 season when we were 5-5, we would have never had those memories of one those classic seasons.

[BlackTiger]

This isnt tanking, Matts arm was already weak and now he has a shoulder injury.  Idk if hes cleared to play right now but he was having trouble getting the ball down the field and outside the numbers before.

 

He cant run either, i think its time to sit him.  

 

[RollerColt]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’ve got no problem with tanking.   But to be honest, it could easily turn into a TWO-YEAR tank job.   Who will be the QB in 2023?    
 

So if the Colts go full tank, how many fans will be patient?    I’m a very patient fan.   But most fans are not.   It puts enormous pressure on Irsay and whoever is the GM.  

There's two sets of fans. The online fans, and then the fans in reality and in person. The fans like myself who live in the state will support the Colts through the good and the bad. A lot of us are old enough to remember the early 90s before Harbaugh and Manning. Many of us are also IU, Purdue, Ball State and Notre Dame alumni / fans so we're use to low years in terms of football. 2011, 2017, 2019... Lucas Oil still had Indiana citizens in the seats. 

 

The online fans perhaps will revolt, but to be honest this forum survived 2011, and it'll survive this phase of Colts Football as well. 

[Myles]

29 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

This isnt tanking, Matts arm was already weak and now he has a shoulder injury.  Idk if hes cleared to play right now but he was having trouble getting the ball down the field and outside the numbers before.

 

He cant run either, i think its time to sit him.  

 

I I don't think the Colts are "tanking" yet.  But I think they may feel that if Sam does stink it up, a better draft position gives them a positive.  I found it odd that they said Sam would be the QB for the rest of the season.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

16 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

There's two sets of fans. The online fans, and then the fans in reality and in person. The fans like myself who live in the state will support the Colts through the good and the bad. A lot of us are old enough to remember the early 90s before Harbaugh and Manning. Many of us are also IU, Purdue, Ball State and Notre Dame alumni / fans so we're use to low years in terms of football. 2011, 2017, 2019... Lucas Oil still had Indiana citizens in the seats. 

 

The online fans perhaps will revolt, but to be honest this forum survived 2011, and it'll survive this phase of Colts Football as well. 

Many would not be here if they seen what 1984-1986 was like  . I was going to games then as a kid.

[2006Coltsbestever]

41 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

This isnt tanking, Matts arm was already weak and now he has a shoulder injury.  Idk if hes cleared to play right now but he was having trouble getting the ball down the field and outside the numbers before.

 

He cant run either, i think its time to sit him.  

 

His injury usually takes 3, maybe 4 weeks to heal. So we had no choice anyway to go with Sam.

[Superman]

29 minutes ago, Myles said:

I I don't think the Colts are "tanking" yet.  But I think they may feel that if Sam does stink it up, a better draft position gives them a positive.  I found it odd that they said Sam would be the QB for the rest of the season.  

 

I think the point is to honestly evaluate him, and not have a QB controversy.

[richard pallo]

12 hours ago, jonjon said:

? Houston already has a good QB. The Panthers and Lions will be jockeying for Stroud and Young. After that it gets iffy. Levis isn't haven't the dazzling year that many expected. 

 

If we can't get one of the top 2, I say load up elsewhere, like the OL, and shoot for the QB of the future in 2024. 

 

As for tanking, that's a myth. Coaches don't tank, GMs, don't tank, and players sure as hell don't tank, if for no other reason than their jobs are on the line and really it goes against their nature, which is to win. 

TBH Lewis is my 1st choice if we are going to draft a quarterback.  You need some help from your teammates to have a dazzling year.  He doesn’t have that but he certainly has the talent and I like his size better.

[throwing BBZ]

16 hours ago, stitches said:

Hard disagree with the first sentiment. Agree with the second one fully. 

 

"Tanking" IMO is just means to an end. You have a system set up to reward losing. I have zero problem with teams using that system to acquire talent as long as the system is setup like this. 

 

Also, tanking IMO is severely misunderstood by a lot of people. Players and coaches pretty much never tank. They are all trying their best to win games. IMO tanking is done about 99.9% on the FO/GM level and if done well it sets up the team for a good chance at a long-term success..

 

The primary goal of tanking is of course to get a high pick in the draft. But another goal of tanking is resetting the window for contention and converting current value into future value(selling current good players for future assets or young players, who will fit the new QB/core' timeline of the team better than current vets). Now in the NFL tanking is quite peculiar thing because there is pretty much only one position that justifies tanking(QB) and even with that not every 1st round QB or hell, even top 10 QB is worth tanking for. But with that said, I can see the benefit of "tanking" even if you are not getting one of the generational level talents at the position, simply because the price of going up in the draft is extremely steep - in other words, if you tank and get a no. 5 pick instead of pick no. 18 in case you didn't tank, this makes drafting the QB you love or moving up for him much easier and much less costly. But overall I agree  with your second point - you do not need to tank to get your QB. We've seen series of teams do it over the last few years - you identify your guy and you move up to get him(Allen, Mahomes, Watson, Lamar) and this has been my desire and hope every single year since Luck retired. 

 

With that said... if you have a Luck level talent at the top of the draft, I have zero objections to my team doing an amazing tank job and sinking to the bottom of the league tables. 

 

  Thank you stitches for being making this understandable to the multitudes.
  We have wallowed post Lucky way too long not to be ready to position ourselves higher in the draft. 
It's funny not  for posters that complain about us not paying whatever it takes to go get some hypothetical PROSPECT to think we now shouldn't prepare ourselves to do just that.
 We have a few players that wil be FA next season that should be considered available if there is a worthwhile pick to be had.
 Call it tanking if you want, it is actually just business.
 Belechick trading Richard Seymour stands out, kinda like us getting Buckner.
Roster building is very much like chess. It takes a  lot of moves.

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think the point is to honestly evaluate him, and not have a QB controversy.

Yeah, I would have expected them to say something like - Sam is the starter for the foreseeable future.   

 

I wonder what the worst case scenario is for the team?

Sam plays mediocre and the Colts finish 8-8-1

Sam plays horrible and the Colts finish 5-11-1

 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 Belechick trading Richard Seymour stands out, kinda like us getting Buckner.

 

They traded Seymour for a first rounder (I'd do that for Buckner now, and I wouldn't call that tanking), and still won the division that year, and for the next ten years. And they were in the SB two years later. 

 

That has no relation to tanking at all. He was in the final year of his contract, and they expected him to leave in FA. Like you said, roster building is like chess, but trading a good player does not equal tanking.

[coltsfeva]

21 hours ago, PRnum1 said:

The T word ?  Yes TANKING.

 

That is the best thing for this franchise now.

 

Lets lose the next 10 games and go into the draft with a top 3 pick and get our QB for the next 10 years.

 

It does us no good to have 8-9 wins, miss the playoffs and pick around 20.

 

Then we would have to use picks to trade up to get our QB of the future.

 

We need to keep all those picks and fix the Oline and get our future QB at 3.

 

It makes no sense to trade all our picks, not fix the Oline and put our shiny new QB behind this horrible Oline and have him take a beating and turn into the next David Carr.

 

Sam will do fine, but we all know he's not a franchise QB, so let's go get one.

 

We only have 10 games left to lose, so lets lose them !!  We need to sacrifice and TAKE THE PAIN !!!

 

Whos with me ???

 

Its time to TANK !!!

 

 

 

We’re 3-3-1…how ‘bout NO?

[Rhodelesstraveled]

This draft is loaded with QBs and LT so I am all for the T word.  

[DougDew]

The reason they have said that Sam is the starter for the rest of the season is to properly evaluate him for the coming offseason.  He will play under different conditions, gaining experience to develop, and opportunity to rebound after a loss or a string of bad play without getting pulled.  They should, and will, coach him to win every game and give him the resources to do it.  Its the only way to properly evaluate him.

 

I'm sure the FO wants to win, but they are being realistic about their chances with Ryan, Foles, or Sam along with the status of the oline.   Evaluation of Sam is a big part of how they are going to make decisions this offseason and beyond.

 

The team is not tanking, nor is it a good strategy.  Not to mention it would not help Sam develop at all.   

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

I I don't think the Colts are "tanking" yet.  But I think they may feel that if Sam does stink it up, a better draft position gives them a positive.  I found it odd that they said Sam would be the QB for the rest of the season.  

To your last sentence, very odd. I have never heard any coach or FO say anything like that in the 45 years I have watched when a team is 3-3-1. Then again I have never seen a team, give up on an undefeated season like we did in 2009. We are 2 for 2 now in the WTH category 

[tfunky14]

22 hours ago, PRnum1 said:

The T word ?  Yes TANKING.

 

That is the best thing for this franchise now.

 

Lets lose the next 10 games and go into the draft with a top 3 pick and get our QB for the next 10 years.

 

It does us no good to have 8-9 wins, miss the playoffs and pick around 20.

 

Then we would have to use picks to trade up to get our QB of the future.

 

We need to keep all those picks and fix the Oline and get our future QB at 3.

 

It makes no sense to trade all our picks, not fix the Oline and put our shiny new QB behind this horrible Oline and have him take a beating and turn into the next David Carr.

 

Sam will do fine, but we all know he's not a franchise QB, so let's go get one.

 

We only have 10 games left to lose, so lets lose them !!  We need to sacrifice and TAKE THE PAIN !!!

 

Whos with me ???

 

Its time to TANK !!!

 

 

 

Your a senior member?  Your membership should be removed. 

 

Can you tank on your job, can you under perform and still get paid?  Can you slack and do nothing while others  complete their responsibilities and still get paid and have a job the next week?  

 

If you answer yes to this please let us ALL know where we can work, get paid and do nothing which is the same as tanking. 

 

Please educate me in how this is possible and to still call yourself a fan.

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, tfunky14 said:

Your a senior member?  Your membership should be removed. 

 

Can you tank on your job, can you under perform and still get paid?  Can you slack and do nothing while others  complete their responsibilities and still get paid and have a job the next week?  

 

If you answer yes to this please let us ALL know where we can work, get paid and do nothing which is the same as tanking. 

 

Please educate me in how this is possible and to still call yourself a fan.

If that is what your boss wants and he says you will keep your job.   Players do not tank, but teams do.   There are ways to make the odds less that you win games.  teams that trade several of their good players could be tanking.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, tfunky14 said:

Your a senior member?  Your membership should be removed. 

 

Can you tank on your job, can you under perform and still get paid?  Can you slack and do nothing while others  complete their responsibilities and still get paid and have a job the next week?  

 

If you answer yes to this please let us ALL know where we can work, get paid and do nothing which is the same as tanking. 

 

Please educate me in how this is possible and to still call yourself a fan.

He is one of the better posters in here and we get along well. I think that was more of a frustration post by him IMO. I just don't get the tank thing at 3-3-1?? There is not 1 team out there that isn't beatable this year. Andrew Luck isn't coming out of the draft either. In my fandom since 1984, only time I was for tanking and I said screw it was in 2011 but not until we were 0-8 - it was over then obviously. Other than that to me tanking is a loser mentality. 

[ColtV]

22 hours ago, PRnum1 said:

The T word ?  Yes TANKING.

 

That is the best thing for this franchise now.

 

Lets lose the next 10 games and go into the draft with a top 3 pick and get our QB for the next 10 years.

 

It does us no good to have 8-9 wins, miss the playoffs and pick around 20.

 

Then we would have to use picks to trade up to get our QB of the future.

 

We need to keep all those picks and fix the Oline and get our future QB at 3.

 

It makes no sense to trade all our picks, not fix the Oline and put our shiny new QB behind this horrible Oline and have him take a beating and turn into the next David Carr.

 

Sam will do fine, but we all know he's not a franchise QB, so let's go get one.

 

We only have 10 games left to lose, so lets lose them !!  We need to sacrifice and TAKE THE PAIN !!!

 

Whos with me ???

 

Its time to TANK !!!

 

 

 

I made a sarcastic post about it when Ehlinger was named starter but realistically "tanking" is almost impossible. 1) Players are not going to give less effort so the team can get a better draft pick. Players want to win and they want their next contract to be bigger, so they aren't doing it. 2) Almost the same thing is in play with the coaching staff. Coaches don't want to get fired, they want job security, they want promotions to coordinator or head coach. 

 

Really only the team owner and head of football operations can make a decision to tank and there's really only a limited amount of things even they can do. Everyone saw in the Miami situation where the fired coach immediately went after the owner for insinuating about tanking. If Ehlinger is terrible does anyone really believe he's going to start the remaining 10 games? To even attempt something like it the front office and coaching staff have to be on solid footing, and right now a lot of people don't believe they are. 

 

Final point about tanking. This isn't the NBA. They aren't improving their chances to move into the top 3 picks by losing. Right now you'd have to lose the remaining 10 games and hope that the other 9! teams with less than 3 wins don't do the same thing. 

 

 

[RollerColt]

 

Regardless of what we think, the Boys in Blue on the field will be playing to win. 

[throwing BBZ]

12 hours ago, coltsfan_canada said:

Let's say if we do tank what do u guys think who will be the GM to select our next pick?

 

Ballard and will he trade up to get his guy which we all know he loves his picks but will he trade to move up. 

 

Very interesting drama more than watching colt games this year. 

 

  I suspect CB was willing to give up more than just a #1 for Stafford.
  How high they grade the prospect available will determine how up WE are willing to go.

[Archer]

There’s no way we’re tanking simply bc we benched Ryan.  We have to know what we have in Ehlinger before the next league year arrives.  Obviously, if Sam doesn’t deliver a season that suggests he’s the long-term solution at QB, then we know that QB is the top off-season priority.  And if Sam IS the long-term solution, we just may just make the playoffs yet.  Now, if we start getting rid of players that can help us win now, like Ngakue and Gilmore…well, then we’re tanking, yes…