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Luck and Griffin's wonderlic score's.

Balzer40

By Balzer40
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MAC Walk On

MAC

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Who did Parcels ever draft at QB? Besides Simms, who wasn't exactly elite, I can't think of another guy he took that turned out great.

I'm not ragging on him, I really don't know.

He wasn't a GM until sometime in the 90's. It's hard to know what influence he had. I would suggest however, that he "drafted". Bledsoe, Pennington and Romo. I'm not sure that I'd call any of them "elite" (although Bledsoe seemed on his way at one point). But all were good, and Romo was a terrific pickup as an UFA. And bear in mind that his teams were never intended to be built around the QB.

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Larry Horseman Practice Squad

Larry Horseman

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Who did Parcels ever draft at QB? Besides Simms, who wasn't exactly elite, I can't think of another guy he took that turned out great.

I'm not ragging on him, I really don't know.

Drew Bledsoe and Chad Henne...I think he also picked up Tony Romo (UDFA)...but I'm not really sure other than that. I think I remember reading some where that he actually stole it from Bill Walsh.

I've never really been enamored by Parcells and don't understand the constant love and attention he gets, but hey, he has a QB drafting formula that may or may not be his!

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CCH Walk On

CCH

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Drew Bledsoe and Chad Henne...I think he also picked up Tony Romo (UDFA)...but I'm not really sure other than that. I think I remember reading some where that he actually stole it from Bill Walsh.

I've never really been enamored by Parcells and don't understand the constant love and attention he gets, but hey, he has a QB drafting formula that may or may not be his!

dude...

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Smonroe Ring of Honor

Smonroe

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Drew Bledsoe and Chad Henne...I think he also picked up Tony Romo (UDFA)...but I'm not really sure other than that. I think I remember reading some where that he actually stole it from Bill Walsh.

I've never really been enamored by Parcells and don't understand the constant love and attention he gets, but hey, he has a QB drafting formula that may or may not be his!

Yeah, I feel the same way about Parcells. Sure, he's a good coach, but it helped that he had Belichick.

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MAC Walk On

MAC

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Drew Bledsoe and Chad Henne...I think he also picked up Tony Romo (UDFA)...but I'm not really sure other than that. I think I remember reading some where that he actually stole it from Bill Walsh.

I've never really been enamored by Parcells and don't understand the constant love and attention he gets, but hey, he has a QB drafting formula that may or may not be his!

Living a little too close to the Giants and the Jets, I've never liked the guy personally. He is abrasive, and his method of dealing with his players (kissing the rears of certain players, cruelly and publicly belittling others) offends me.

That doesn't change the fact that he led every NFL team that he joined to an immediate and substantial improvement. He is joined at the hip with Belichick to the point where you could scratch your head and conjecture which ones success is a product of the others influence. I suspect that they are both exceptional.

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Gavin Walk On

Gavin

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I heard that they had to create a new wonderlic test just for him because the standard test just wasn't challenging enough.

lets not build him up that far, hes the best Quarterback in the draft but will have to show it in the NFL over time
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dgambill Practice Squad

dgambill

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Living a little too close to the Giants and the Jets, I've never liked the guy personally. He is abrasive, and his method of dealing with his players (kissing the rears of certain players, cruelly and publicly belittling others) offends me.

That doesn't change the fact that he led every NFL team that he joined to an immediate and substantial improvement. He is joined at the hip with Belichick to the point where you could scratch your head and conjecture which ones success is a product of the others influence. I suspect that they are both exceptional.

Or he could have learned it from Bobby Knight. Parcells was an assistant to Knight when he was at ARMY. They used to play one on one against each other after practice which often ended in fist fights. That said they became life long friends along with Tony LaRussa to become the holy trinity of coaching lol. I imagine coaching and spending time at Army would mold anyone into a very structured individual. Funny how all three have a very similar coaching style.

As for the test I think it bodes well that Luck understands things quickly. That was obvious just watching him play at Stanford. That said I think Griffins score is very admirable and goes to show he is clearly cerebal as well. Both should do well at the next level.

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MAC Walk On

MAC

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Or he could have learned it from Bobby Knight. Parcells was an assistant to Knight when he was at ARMY. They used to play one on one against each other after practice which often ended in fist fights. That said they became life long friends along with Tony LaRussa to become the holy trinity of coaching lol. I imagine coaching and spending time at Army would mold anyone into a very structured individual. Funny how all three have a very similar coaching style.

Interesting, I didn't know that. Knight would make sense as a parallel. I've always assumed that LaRussa was a more mild mannered coach, but I haven't paid that much attention to him.

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cokomenow

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If I am right, Reggie Wayne scored 13, didn't he? Andre Johnson scored 14. So, have those guys been busts in the NFL? I think not.

Certain positions, a REAL BAD SCORE (single digits) might matter, like QB, MLBs or O-linemen, one can make a case. But the teens and beyond for a score, to me, the score becomes less relevant for the above positions and certainly for other positions. Vince Young, who scored 7 for a QB, was a red flag that teams did not pick on. You can get by athleticism to an extent but eventually you have to be able to read Ds as a QB.

I am curious - how would you access Claiborne's low score of 4? DB is much more difficult to play than WR

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chad72 Ring of Honor

chad72

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I am curious - how would you access Claiborne's low score of 4? DB is much more difficult to play than WR

I would attribute it more to the fact that he does have a reading disability that I heard of. He may not have issues with listening comprehension due to which he played in a pretty complicated secondary at LSU, that people need to be reminded of. He played at a high level there coached by good coaches.

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Dan Walk On

Dan

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Oops, it said "almost" .....I guess that's a little further than almost.

I still don't think this test means much

Interestingly Gabbert told everybody he got a 42, it was then revealed he actually got 31... he backtracked saying he meant he got 42 "when he did it before"

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GrizzColt

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If you believe in this sort of thing, there are basically 4 different temperaments (or personality types):

The temperaments are sanguine (pleasure-seeking and sociable), choleric (ambitious and leader-like), melancholic (introverted and thoughtful), and phlegmatic (relaxed and quiet).

I have noticed that a lot of the successful QB's in the NFL would probably be considered melancholic...ie the quiet guys. Montanna, Eli and I believe Brady would be good examples. Guys like Peyton and Marino, who are obviously choleric (natural leaders), don't typically fare as well. The quiet guys, who are more thoughtful, seem to thrive under pressure or at least are not as hampered by it. People who are choleric (and I have noticed this in my experiences) tend to panic a bit when the things change and they have to be more creative. Now, I believe that Peyton was so prepared that he overcame a lot of this, but we all know that he didn't like change at all. That being said, I think Luck is a quiet guy and I think he will fare very well under pressure.

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chad72 Ring of Honor

chad72

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If you believe in this sort of thing, there are basically 4 different temperaments (or personality types):

The temperaments are sanguine (pleasure-seeking and sociable), choleric (ambitious and leader-like), melancholic (introverted and thoughtful), and phlegmatic (relaxed and quiet).

I have noticed that a lot of the successful QB's in the NFL would probably be considered melancholic...ie the quiet guys. Montanna, Eli and I believe Brady would be good examples. Guys like Peyton and Marino, who are obviously choleric (natural leaders), don't typically fare as well. The quiet guys, who are more thoughtful, seem to thrive under pressure or at least are not as hampered by it. People who are choleric (and I have noticed this in my experiences) tend to panic a bit when the things change and they have to be more creative. Now, I believe that Peyton was so prepared that he overcame a lot of this, but we all know that he didn't like change at all. That being said, I think Luck is a quiet guy and I think he will fare very well under pressure.

How do you score a supermodel by being introverted? :) I dont think Brady is as introverted as you think he is. He is probably more choleric than you think he is. Brady is pretty emotional on the sidelines, gets rattled just as much as Peyton if hit but is definitely more plucky on QB sneaks and has had a better share of luck in his playoff wins, IMO.

Whether it is a tuck rule non-fumble or Troy Brown fumble recovery off a Brady INT, or a Lee Evans drop or a Nate Kaeding missed FG or a Billy Cundiff missed FG, Brady has had his share of luck more often than not, IMO. Eli is the only one I can think of that matches Brady in the luck department (Asante Samuel missed INT in SB 2007, Tyree catch in SB 2007, 2 or 3 fumbles of Giants recovered by the Giants themselves in SB 2011, near misses on INTs that end up being completions to Nicks in SB 2011 etc.).

Peyton and/or Polian probably have had a giant share of bad luck (or bounces if you call them). Probably Polian more with the Norwood FG wide right and 4 SB losses in a row, and Peyton having 4 fourth quarter leads the last 4 playoff games (24-21 vs Chargers in 2007, 17-14 vs Chargers in 2008, 17-16 vs Saints in 2009, 16-14 vs Jets in 2010) all being blown. Then, here is Eli who is down 9-17 in the 3rd qtr. of the SB 2011, and wins it 21-17 with the Pats' O shut down after their 3rd qtr. score.

Having said that, Luck being a mobile enough QB when plays break down, like an Aaron Rodgers, will add a small dimension to the team that may give him an edge over Peyton if he turns out to be as good a pocket passer as Peyton.

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GrizzColt

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How do you score a supermodel by being introverted? :) I dont think Brady is as introverted as you think he is. He is probably more choleric than you think he is. Brady is pretty emotional on the sidelines, gets rattled just as much as Peyton if hit but is definitely more plucky on QB sneaks and has had a better share of luck in his playoff wins, IMO.

Whether it is a tuck rule non-fumble or Troy Brown fumble recovery off a Brady INT, or a Lee Evans drop or a Nate Kaeding missed FG or a Billy Cundiff missed FG, Brady has had his share of luck more often than not, IMO. Eli is the only one I can think of that matches Brady in the luck department (Asante Samuel missed INT in SB 2007, Tyree catch in SB 2007, 2 or 3 fumbles of Giants recovered by the Giants themselves in SB 2011, near misses on INTs that end up being completions to Nicks in SB 2011 etc.).

Peyton and/or Polian probably have had a giant share of bad luck (or bounces if you call them). Probably Polian more with the Norwood FG wide right and 4 SB losses in a row, and Peyton having 4 fourth quarter leads the last 4 playoff games (24-21 vs Chargers in 2007, 17-14 vs Chargers in 2008, 17-16 vs Saints in 2009, 16-14 vs Jets in 2010) all being blown. Then, here is Eli who is down 9-17 in the 3rd qtr. of the SB 2011, and wins it 21-17 with the Pats' O shut down after their 3rd qtr. score.

Having said that, Luck being a mobile enough QB when plays break down, like an Aaron Rodgers, will add a small dimension to the team that may give him an edge over Peyton if he turns out to be as good a pocket passer as Peyton.

LIke I said, if you believe this sort of thing. Start noticing people in light of what I am saying and see if you don't start to categorize people this way.

I am merely saying I believe "quiet" guys (melancholy) with high Wonderlic scores may have more calm under pressure. It's just an observation I have made over many years (I'm not as young as I used to be) in football and life. Every type A (choleric) person I have known is good at taking charge and making plans, but when the plans break down, they believe it's on their shoulders to come up with a new plan and they tend to panic a bit. The "quiet" guy, who is quite alright taking a back seat to the natural leaders, tend to go with the flow. When the plans break down though, they don't sweat it as much and say "Well, lets take a look at some alternatives..." this is just what I have noticed in the people I have worked with over time on a professional basis.

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Larry Horseman Practice Squad

Larry Horseman

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He wasn't a GM until sometime in the 90's. It's hard to know what influence he had. I would suggest however, that he "drafted". Bledsoe, Pennington and Romo. I'm not sure that I'd call any of them "elite" (although Bledsoe seemed on his way at one point). But all were good, and Romo was a terrific pickup as an UFA. And bear in mind that his teams were never intended to be built around the QB.

Pennington was drafted the year after Parcells "retired" from the Jets.

dude...

Wasn't saying it was a good pick, just pointing it out.

Yeah, I feel the same way about Parcells. Sure, he's a good coach, but it helped that he had Belichick.

Living a little too close to the Giants and the Jets, I've never liked the guy personally. He is abrasive, and his method of dealing with his players (kissing the rears of certain players, cruelly and publicly belittling others) offends me.

That doesn't change the fact that he led every NFL team that he joined to an immediate and substantial improvement. He is joined at the hip with Belichick to the point where you could scratch your head and conjecture which ones success is a product of the others influence. I suspect that they are both exceptional.

The Belichick point is interesting, and that never really played into my lack of love for Parcells. He did win two SBs and play in another with the Pats, but the Cowboys or Dolphins never really did much under his leadership. I think he had his time in 80s/90s, and has been riding out the last decade + on that reputation. I'm just not sure his ideals and coaching style translate to success during this later time. He is a HoF coach, but I'm not sure that he deserves all the constant attention and ego massaging he receives...most recently regarding the whole Saints situation.

As for the QB drafting strategy, I'm not sure he has ever really put it properly into practice himself if you look at his draft record. As far as I can tell, Bledsoe and Henne are really the only examples of draft picks that were used in hopes of having a starting QB (Romo was UDFA and Pat White was not going to be a typical QB).

As for the Wonderlic stuff, I think it is important for a QB, but both Luck and Griffin are intelligent and had high enough scores to be considered "intelligent" prospects.

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Larry Horseman

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How do you score a supermodel by being introverted? :) I dont think Brady is as introverted as you think he is. He is probably more choleric than you think he is. Brady is pretty emotional on the sidelines, gets rattled just as much as Peyton if hit but is definitely more plucky on QB sneaks and has had a better share of luck in his playoff wins, IMO.

Whether it is a tuck rule non-fumble or Troy Brown fumble recovery off a Brady INT, or a Lee Evans drop or a Nate Kaeding missed FG or a Billy Cundiff missed FG, Brady has had his share of luck more often than not, IMO. Eli is the only one I can think of that matches Brady in the luck department (Asante Samuel missed INT in SB 2007, Tyree catch in SB 2007, 2 or 3 fumbles of Giants recovered by the Giants themselves in SB 2011, near misses on INTs that end up being completions to Nicks in SB 2011 etc.).

Peyton and/or Polian probably have had a giant share of bad luck (or bounces if you call them). Probably Polian more with the Norwood FG wide right and 4 SB losses in a row, and Peyton having 4 fourth quarter leads the last 4 playoff games (24-21 vs Chargers in 2007, 17-14 vs Chargers in 2008, 17-16 vs Saints in 2009, 16-14 vs Jets in 2010) all being blown. Then, here is Eli who is down 9-17 in the 3rd qtr. of the SB 2011, and wins it 21-17 with the Pats' O shut down after their 3rd qtr. score.

Having said that, Luck being a mobile enough QB when plays break down, like an Aaron Rodgers, will add a small dimension to the team that may give him an edge over Peyton if he turns out to be as good a pocket passer as Peyton.

There's no doubt that luck, or a lack there of, is involved in winning SBs. See what I did there? :cool:

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southwest1

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Andrew Luck - 37

Ryan Lindley - 35

Ryan Tannehill - 34

Nick Foles - 29

Russell Wilson - 28

Brandon Weeden - 27

Kellen Moore - 26

Brock Osweiler - 25

Robert Griffin III - 24

Has any NFL player in recent memory refused to take the Wonderlic Test on the grounds that the scores are supposed to remain confidential & never ever do? Why doesn't the Commissioner put a stop to this reporter leaking farce once & for all?

Keep the test intact; just make 1 public example of a reporter who blatantly defies the rules in this releasing regard year after year with no consequences whatsoever. If integrity matters so much to Goodell with the next crop of NFL stars, prove it!!!

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