Kurt Warner film study - Ups and Downs of Carson Wentz

[Fisticuffs111]

Lengthy video, but really solid film study of Wentz’s game against Jax. Lot of interesting insight on decision making (ignoring JT in the flat on the first play hurts to watch) harps on holding the ball too long/how looking guys off can be a detriment and not getting it to the right spot. Just an insightful video all around.

 

And of course, obligatory it’s not all on Carson. He highlights some poor protection.

 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

It’s no wonder he took so many sacks. Most of them were on him. This has been the issue with him. Not looking for the easy play and always looking for the big play. Wonder if any of this can be corrected now that he has played a year and they know what  they need him to work on.

[smittywerb]

Kurt is spot on.  Running the play clock down and holding the ball too long does not help the OL at all.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Do you guys think any of this can be corrected since they have a year with him and can see the issues? Or is this something that can’t be corrected. Watching him from 2017 it seemed he didn’t throw from the pocket much. They would roll him out and it was always one read downfield. 

[colts89]

Great analysis by Kurt. It shows me that unless the conditions and blocking are perfect, Wentz will play erratic and not make the right reads on many plays. There were some plays we're the pressure was in his face from the get go, but he seems to slow in recognizing his quick check down or open man as he's still looking for the big play opportunity .Hes a veteran at this point so I doubt he's gonna change his ways too much there.

 

The Jags DL is very  good, so it seemed the Jags essentially ran a bunch of zone and bet on Wentz not being able to make the quick read with some pressure in his face and they were right. If we are ever down, it seems like an easy strategy for other teams to keep us down unless JT gashes them.

[Four2itus]

2 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

Kurt is spot on.  Running the play clock down and holding the ball too long does not help the OL at all.  

Few can be as good at this as Manning was. Luck never achieved it either. 

[smittywerb]

2 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Few can be as good at this as Manning was. Luck never achieved it either. 

I blame that on arians and his long developing plays.  One year with Reich and he had his most efficient year of his career.  As this video shows, even with the talent we have, there are options to throw the ball and he won’t.  
 

and there are other qbs in the league that have achieved this.  A lot of them made the playoffs this year.  

[Fisticuffs111]

6 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Few can be as good at this as Manning was. Luck never achieved it either. 

Yeah, even Rivers to some degree. Those two were playing chess against defenses playing checkers. 

 

Wish we could’ve seen Luck beyond 30+ to see him keep learning, but it is what it is.

[Moosejawcolt]

3 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

I blame that on arians and his long developing plays.  One year with Reich and he had his most efficient year of his career.  As this video shows, even with the talent we have, there are options to throw the ball and he won’t.  
 

and there are other qbs in the league that have achieved this.  A lot of them made the playoffs this year.  

The one ting that stands out to me is why is Carson continually  in shotgu nadrining RPOs? He needs to be under center as I think that is the strength  of this Oline. U have Smith and Nelson  who are supposed to be maulers in shotgun formation. That's is my biggest criticism of Frank.

[Bravo]

Good video. Wentz inability to find the open man is obviously an issue. He gets extremely flustered under any pressure.

 

These route combinations seem TERRIBLE though. Very rarely a very open receiver to throw to unless it was a check down.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

There is one silver lining. I am not comparing luck to Wentz but he did have some of the same issues. Reich got luck to  take the easy play in 2018. Maybe he can do it for Wentz. The question is will he get a second chance or did he ruin it for himself.

[Fisticuffs111]

17 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

Kurt is spot on.  Running the play clock down and holding the ball too long does not help the OL at all.  

That was a weird constant all year, running the play clock down. Got out of the huddle quite late too.

 

I remember Frank saying they called multiple plays in the huddle, which I guess would contribute to that and why Carson killed plays so often.

[colts89]

12 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

I blame that on arians and his long developing plays.  One year with Reich and he had his most efficient year of his career.  As this video shows, even with the talent we have, there are options to throw the ball and he won’t.  
 

and there are other qbs in the league that have achieved this.  A lot of them made the playoffs this year.  

I agree. Luck did hold on to the ball to long at times since he had the same ability as Wentz to keep a play alive and wait for coverages to break down. 

 

However, he was far better in reading through his coverages correctly and knowing what to look for on the field then Wentz does. Wentz seems to be sporadic with his reads all the time. Once Luck got with Reich, he started checking down the ball more and I'd imagine he would have continued getting better at that as well. If Wentz stays, hopefully he can not be stubborn and learn the same. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, bravo4460 said:

Good video. Wentz inability to find the open man is obviously an issue.

 

These route combinations seem TERRIBLE though. Very rarely a very open receiver to throw to unless it was a check down.

Question is it his inability or is it it just a mental thing always wanting the big play.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

That was a weird constant all year, running the play clock down. Got out of the huddle quite late too.

 

I remember Frank saying they called multiple plays in the huddle, which I guess would contribute to why Carson killed plays so often.

Maybe a second year in the system where he is more comfortable fixes that?

[JediXMan]

The amount of easy check downs he’s refused to throw is ridiculous. It’s so frustrating because JT in space is leaving so many potential long plays off the field.

[Fisticuffs111]

Yeah, even from purely an eye test sort of view it seemed like Wentz passed up easy opportunities to try and go big or go home. Rely on his escapability to make the big play.
 

Which, that’s where most of his career highlights come from, but I’d rather him play like he did when he was hobbled early in the season. That’s when he seemed to dump it off the most.

 

Going forward, he’s gotta take the easy yards. He passes up those opportunities too much.

[John Waylon]

45 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

Kurt is spot on.  Running the play clock down and holding the ball too long does not help the OL at all.  

It was a problem in Week 1. 
 

It was still a problem in Week 18. 
 

41 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Few can be as good at this as Manning was. Luck never achieved it either. 

 

Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think you have to be to snap the ball before the last possible moment…

 

I don’t think I’m wrong, though. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Seems to me two things have to be determined. One is it because he is slow at processing? 2. Is it just because he wants the big play. If it’s slow processing that probably can’t be fixed. If it’s him just wanting the big play that can probably be coaches out of him.

[GoColts8818]

51 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Do you guys think any of this can be corrected since they have a year with him and can see the issues? Or is this something that can’t be corrected. Watching him from 2017 it seemed he didn’t throw from the pocket much. They would roll him out and it was always one read downfield. 

My guess is that is what the Colts have to figure out and while it makes sense to being him back based on his contract that’s why the Colts aren’t committing to it just yet.  They are probably trying to decide the answer to that question.  

[John Waylon]

26 minutes ago, JediXMan said:

The amount of easy check downs he’s refused to throw is ridiculous. It’s so frustrating because JT in space is leaving so many potential long plays off the field.

There were 60+ yards Sunday alone that were left on the field by not passing to Taylor. 
 

This is why I don’t think giving him the best two WR’s of all time and building a 6 foot tall brick wall from sideline to sideline to keep the defense from getting to him is going to magically fix many of the issues he has. There are fundamental issues with his game that start, end, and can only be fixed by him. 

[GoColts8818]

4 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

There were 60+ yards Sunday alone that were left on the field by not passing to Taylor. 
 

This is why I don’t think giving him the best two WR’s of all time and building a 6 foot tall brick wall from sideline to sideline to keep the defense from getting to him is going to magically fix many of the issues he has. There are fundamental issues with his game that start, end, and can only be fixed by him. 

To add to this its been pointed out that every receiver other than Taylor and Pittman (Well and Campbell but that doesn’t count he only played one game last year) had a worse year this year than last year with Rivers.  What’s more likely that the QB play wasn’t as good as last year or pretty much everyone else in the passing game took a step back this yead?  

[Thunderbolt]

I wonder if Wentz watches the film where he's missing receivers and potential targets that he has other options to dink it to the open guy.  He's too zone in on making a big play instead of watching other available receivers. Granted you have a few seconds to get rid of the ball, but he's mechanics drastically needs improvement. He needs to scan the field to see he's available option....That's one of his flaws that Warner pointed out oh the film.....Again, I think he's set in his ways, after six years in the league you would think he'd had time to correct them.  

[IrsaysArmy]

Wentz stinks but so do our wide receivers. I only watched half the video but didn’t see much separation. Our oline got whooped too. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

26 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

My guess is that is what the Colts have to figure out and while it makes sense to being him back based on his contract that’s why the Colts aren’t committing to it just yet.  They are probably trying to decide the answer to that question.  

Like I commented above. They have to figure out if it’s slow processing or is it just his mentality that he always needs the big play. Slow processing can’t be fixed. If it’s just his mentality which luck also had that can probably be fixed.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

16 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

I wonder if Wentz watches the film where he's missing receivers and potential targets that he has other options to dink it to the open guy.  He's too zone in on making a big play instead of watching other available receivers. Granted you have a few seconds to get rid of the ball, but he's mechanics drastically needs improvement. He needs to scan the field to see he's available option....That's one of his flaws that Warner pointed out oh the film.....Again, I think he's set in his ways, after six years in the league you would think he'd had time to correct them.  

Reich coached it out of luck in 2018. I realize luck made a ton more plays but he did make luck more efficient and got him to take the easy play when there.

[GoColts8818]

9 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Reich coached it out of luck in 2018. I realize luck made a ton more plays but he did make luck more efficient and got him to take the easy play when there.

I’ll say this, I never saw Luck look like he wasn’t sure what he was seeing like I saw with Wentz on Sunday.  There were times when the ball was snapped Wentz was a deer in headlights and you could just tell he didn’t trust anything he was seeing.  

[coltsfan_canada]

2 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Lengthy video, but really solid film study of Wentz’s game against Jax. Lot of interesting insight on decision making (ignoring JT in the flat on the first play hurts to watch) harps on holding the ball too long/how looking guys off can be a detriment and not getting it to the right spot. Just an insightful video all around.

 

And of course, obligatory it’s not all on Carson. He highlights some poor protection.

 

 

 

send Wentz to Tom House along with this video n he will next Brady 

[TomDiggs]

I watched this video start to finish and a few things stand out:

 

1) Some sacks are on Wentz when he has a clean pocket and needs to make that read and throw quickly and he doesn't and the protection breaks down. That is on him

 

2) Most times he is trying to read too much as Warner points out. He has looks w 2 on one side and 3 on the other. he needs to make a pre-snap read and choose a side or at least a quick post snap read and then focus on the one side and play off the one defender that they are making choose. Wentz is trying to scan and look at all 5 options. not enough time. and play breaks down. this is a coaching issue. QB coach needs to be better w him. OC needs to be better and design the play and read better

 

3) The play designs on the last few that Warner points out are trash. They dont even design the check downs to go to the right places to make the defenders choose. That is either players running the wrong route or it is bad play design. 

 

 

Wentz has issues. No doubt. But these are things that you can and should be able to fix with better coaching. I know some people want to grill Reich or even Ballard....i put a lot of this on a few things:

 

1) Need better WRs in terms of winning one-on-ones. These do not need to be "traits" guys. Guys that win with quick, decisive routes. Renfrow-type guys

 

2) Need better check-down play design and need to cut down Wentz's reads and processing time. Treat him like a rookie if you need to. He has the skills. He needs to make the quick decisive reads. This means getting a good, experienced OC and QB coach to work w him . Reich is the HC, he cant do everything and be a QB whisperer all the time. No offense to Brady and Milanovich but they either need to be better or be gone.

 

3) So many of these plays are issues w not being able to take the LB out of the equation when working in the middle of the field. We rarely challenged outside. Part of that is lack of talent outside at WR and most of Pittman's routes coming inside. So we need to get someone that can be a game-wrecker either outside or at the TE spot to put the LBs in the middle of the field in a pickle. ideally both, but one or the other would do. 

 

Let me also say that our entire OL got worked. Nelson was OK but not up to par. Fisher was getting killed by Allen. Thats why JT is chipping in the clip when Warner is begging coaches to not design a chip there. Braden had a few errors like a blown assignment on the strip-sack that they didnt even hide the design on. And to me it seemed like every play where the pocket collapsed i Saw Glowinski being on skates pushed back in the pocket.

 

This loss starts and ends w the OL. But the offensive play design was bad. the OL was bad. Wentz was bad. and the defense set the tone by letting a team that scored on an opening drive only once all year march down the field and score to start the game w numerous 3rd down conversions.

 

A total team effort on the loss. So I for one will not be killing Wentz over it.

 

 

 

 

[GoColts8818]

14 minutes ago, TomDiggs said:

I watched this video start to finish and a few things stand out:

 

1) Some sacks are on Wentz when he has a clean pocket and needs to make that read and throw quickly and he doesn't and the protection breaks down. That is on him

 

2) Most times he is trying to read too much as Warner points out. He has looks w 2 on one side and 3 on the other. he needs to make a pre-snap read and choose a side or at least a quick post snap read and then focus on the one side and play off the one defender that they are making choose. Wentz is trying to scan and look at all 5 options. not enough time. and play breaks down. this is a coaching issue. QB coach needs to be better w him. OC needs to be better and design the play and read better

 

3) The play designs on the last few that Warner points out are trash. They dont even design the check downs to go to the right places to make the defenders choose. That is either players running the wrong route or it is bad play design. 

 

 

Wentz has issues. No doubt. But these are things that you can and should be able to fix with better coaching. I know some people want to grill Reich or even Ballard....i put a lot of this on a few things:

 

1) Need better WRs in terms of winning one-on-ones. These do not need to be "traits" guys. Guys that win with quick, decisive routes. Renfrow-type guys

 

2) Need better check-down play design and need to cut down Wentz's reads and processing time. Treat him like a rookie if you need to. He has the skills. He needs to make the quick decisive reads. This means getting a good, experienced OC and QB coach to work w him . Reich is the HC, he cant do everything and be a QB whisperer all the time. No offense to Brady and Milanovich but they either need to be better or be gone.

 

3) So many of these plays are issues w not being able to take the LB out of the equation when working in the middle of the field. We rarely challenged outside. Part of that is lack of talent outside at WR and most of Pittman's routes coming inside. So we need to get someone that can be a game-wrecker either outside or at the TE spot to put the LBs in the middle of the field in a pickle. ideally both, but one or the other would do. 

 

Let me also say that our entire OL got worked. Nelson was OK but not up to par. Fisher was getting killed by Allen. Thats why JT is chipping in the clip when Warner is begging coaches to not design a chip there. Braden had a few errors like a blown assignment on the strip-sack that they didnt even hide the design on. And to me it seemed like every play where the pocket collapsed i Saw Glowinski being on skates pushed back in the pocket.

 

This loss starts and ends w the OL. But the offensive play design was bad. the OL was bad. Wentz was bad. and the defense set the tone by letting a team that scored on an opening drive only once all year march down the field and score to start the game w numerous 3rd down conversions.

 

A total team effort on the loss. So I for one will not be killing Wentz over it.

 

 

 

 

Yeah it’s not all on Wentz’s shoulders alone.  Someone started a who do you blame thread and I simply said everyone and you did a good job of explaining why.

 

This offense desperately needs someone who can stretch the field.  While I am sure they will explore free agency and a trade if need be you can find a guy like that in the draft even without a first round pick.  Let’s not forget TY was a mid round pick.  
 

If you use Marvin and Reggie as your gold standard for your perfect set of WRs you have your Reggie who is going to run clean routes and just make catches in Pittman.  Now they need their Marvin who can stretch the field like Garçon and TY did after Marvin.  

[AKB]

Wentz looks lost. 

[Rolltide_gocolts]

What I gathered from this is that our “franchise” QB is a perfect cut up reel on everything not to do as a “franchise“ QB… this tape alone should scare Ballard and Irsay

[Shadowofcolts]

Yeah, my average Joe opinion. Don't think Wentz is a franchise quarterback. He takes too long to go through his progressions, gets tunnel visioned, and then still isn't accurate on wide open receivers. I really wanted to believe in him but can't after the Raiders and Jaguars games. Just feels like he has too much he needs to work on. Yeah, interceptions were low, but that might just be cause he was so inaccurate to begin with. Even with JT being a threat, he still can't make the throws to keep us in. Our offense always seemed flat unless JT was breaking out. Lock up JT, and just watch Wentz struggle.

[CoachLite]

6 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

Do you guys think any of this can be corrected since they have a year with him and can see the issues? Or is this something that can’t be corrected. Watching him from 2017 it seemed he didn’t throw from the pocket much. They would roll him out and it was always one read downfield. 

Yes, easily.

[DougDew]

Kurt Warner and Philip Rivers are the same type of QB,  Comparing Wentz to them is a little bit of a high standard set up for failure.

 

Y'all remember when Matt Hasselbeck would move Chud's "long developing" offense down the field quickly with quick passes when Luck struggled by holding the ball?  No, it wasn't Chud's fault.   

 

MH, KW. PR are the same QB.   Mac Jones?    Sam Ehlinger?    Justin Fields?  Deshaun Watson ?  

 

How does Russell Wilson compare to Kurt Warner...just asking really.

 

Kurt Warner should watch the SF CIN Super Bowl.  Everybody raves about the final drive, but Joe Montana nearly cost SF the ball game because all game long he unsuccessfully tried to find Taylor and Rice, totally ignoring his RBs in the flat.  (Steve Young was the QB who really elevated the RBs to pass catchers) 

 

Certainly Wentz should improve on some things.  But a bunch of QBs are in the NFL that don't do the things Kurt Warner says they should do.

 

Funny how this compares to the idea that Ballard needs to trade up for the next great college "mobile" QB.  Do colleges even develop Kurt Warners' and Phil Rivers' anymore?

[coming on strong]

8 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

It’s no wonder he took so many sacks. Most of them were on him. This has been the issue with him. Not looking for the easy play and always looking for the big play. Wonder if any of this can be corrected now that he has played a year and they know what  they need him to work on.

That’s what I have been saying the eagles last year ranked higher in pass protection than the colts.  Wentz takes 50 plus sacks in like 13 games while rivers takes 18 in 16 games .  The offensive line is still elite it’s hard to block in the nfl for 8 seconds every passing play . Elite QBs get the ball out in 2 seconds.

[coming on strong]

8 hours ago, smittywerb said:

Kurt is spot on.  Running the play clock down and holding the ball too long does not help the OL at all.  

Wentz is like a deer in head lights . In 2017 he could use his talent to overcome his bad decisions. Every big play was him holding on the ball to long breaking a tackle and throwing on the run into triple coverage.    That style is catching up to him since the injuries took his mobility away . 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

That’s what I have been saying the eagles last year ranked higher in pass protection than the colts.  Wentz takes 50 plus sacks in like 13 games while rivers takes 18 in 16 games .  The offensive line is still elite it’s hard to block in the nfl for 8 seconds every passing play . Elite QBs get the ball out in 2 seconds.

You have done a complete swing on Wentz. I remember you posting saying Wentz would dominate here before the season and you were even convincing me he would. I was saying I didn't like the trade and it was you that was saying I was wrong. Times have changed.

[coming on strong]

5 hours ago, TomDiggs said:

I watched this video start to finish and a few things stand out:

 

1) Some sacks are on Wentz when he has a clean pocket and needs to make that read and throw quickly and he doesn't and the protection breaks down. That is on him

 

2) Most times he is trying to read too much as Warner points out. He has looks w 2 on one side and 3 on the other. he needs to make a pre-snap read and choose a side or at least a quick post snap read and then focus on the one side and play off the one defender that they are making choose. Wentz is trying to scan and look at all 5 options. not enough time. and play breaks down. this is a coaching issue. QB coach needs to be better w him. OC needs to be better and design the play and read better

 

3) The play designs on the last few that Warner points out are trash. They dont even design the check downs to go to the right places to make the defenders choose. That is either players running the wrong route or it is bad play design. 

 

 

Wentz has issues. No doubt. But these are things that you can and should be able to fix with better coaching. I know some people want to grill Reich or even Ballard....i put a lot of this on a few things:

 

1) Need better WRs in terms of winning one-on-ones. These do not need to be "traits" guys. Guys that win with quick, decisive routes. Renfrow-type guys

 

2) Need better check-down play design and need to cut down Wentz's reads and processing time. Treat him like a rookie if you need to. He has the skills. He needs to make the quick decisive reads. This means getting a good, experienced OC and QB coach to work w him . Reich is the HC, he cant do everything and be a QB whisperer all the time. No offense to Brady and Milanovich but they either need to be better or be gone.

 

3) So many of these plays are issues w not being able to take the LB out of the equation when working in the middle of the field. We rarely challenged outside. Part of that is lack of talent outside at WR and most of Pittman's routes coming inside. So we need to get someone that can be a game-wrecker either outside or at the TE spot to put the LBs in the middle of the field in a pickle. ideally both, but one or the other would do. 

 

Let me also say that our entire OL got worked. Nelson was OK but not up to par. Fisher was getting killed by Allen. Thats why JT is chipping in the clip when Warner is begging coaches to not design a chip there. Braden had a few errors like a blown assignment on the strip-sack that they didnt even hide the design on. And to me it seemed like every play where the pocket collapsed i Saw Glowinski being on skates pushed back in the pocket.

 

This loss starts and ends w the OL. But the offensive play design was bad. the OL was bad. Wentz was bad. and the defense set the tone by letting a team that scored on an opening drive only once all year march down the field and score to start the game w numerous 3rd down conversions.

 

A total team effort on the loss. So I for one will not be killing Wentz over it.

 

 

 

 

If they are bringing wentz back we need to hire a new Qb coach he failed big time . I would also love a new oc Brady failed as well .

[Solid84]

The thing is even if Wentz ‘gets’ it for a few games I don’t trust him not to revert to the crap we’ve seen from him this year once defenses figure us out. 
 

Frank hasn’t been good enough at coaching Wentz and calling plays to help him out. Our receivers are generally average. Wentz STILL had open targets and he just can’t figure it out.