Kurt Warner film study - Ups and Downs of Carson Wentz

[DougDew]

Also, as mentioned my another in another thread; are there quick short passes as the first read target, or are the short patterns the last dumpoff read?    It looks like a lot of receivers were running intermediate routes, taking time to execute.

 

As if Chud designed the plays.

[RD1952]

I thought the video was terrific. I'm a long time fan of the Colts, since the 58 championship and their days in Baltimore. Anyhow, after watching Warner's analysis, I think it's clear that Wentz has difficulty processing the defense at the line of scrimmage. He seems to lack a fundamental  understanding of how to read a defense and doesn't always recognize where his advantage is when they line up. Processing the defense quickly allows the QB to make faster reads and  quicker decisions. Wentz wastes too much time scanning the field because he doesn't recognize  where his advantage is which results in three things; missing windows and throwing late, bad mechanics resulting in errant throws, and sacks because he takes too much time. I can remember Manning firing the ball out quickly in his latter years with the team while playing behind a mediocre offensive line. His  fast play carried the Colts. Wentz cannot carry this team, therefore every other weakness is magnified. It's not always his fault, there were some glaring mistakes by the offensive line, as when Smith completely missed the blitz, but rather than just take the sack, Wentz tried to shovel the ball once again and it resulted in a fumble recovery. That led to points for Jacksonville just as his poor throw on the interception did. in nearly every play that Warner analyzed, and I remember every one as I watched that miserable game, Wentz failed to make the play. As mediocre as our receivers are rated, there was someone open on every play.  The check downs to JT who could have had 200 yds. receiving if he was targeted, were open on all but the one play where, because of poor left tackle play, they used him to chip block . Wentz, rarely even looked at JT. It was baffling!  Wentz will more likely than not be our QB next year, so he and the coaching better get to work to make some corrections, otherwise it'll be more of the same. This video convinced me of that. I have no doubt that they will try, and I have hope that they'll succeed, I just don't have a lot of faith that they will. 

[John Hammonds]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

I watched the video.  Keep in mind that it was in slow speed, never really in full speed.  In Wentz defense, there were several, if not many, times where Carson did not have enough time to do what Warner is talking about, IMO.  

 

He simply looked rushed with his decision making and his set up and throwing even when he got the read correct.

 

The sad thing is that he could have checked down to JT a lot.  That alone would have slowed tha pass rush....and helped to win the TEN game in OT.

 

I agree, Doug.  Over and over in the vid, the pass rush is already in Carson's face before he ever gets a chance to read the LB.  He was rushed.  Our OL just never gave him any time.  I would also like to know why their best DE kept being single-teamed.  Add a TE on that side, and keep him doubled up and unable to affect the pocket.  Yes, it takes one TE out of the pass routes.  I'm ok with that.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Something that is crazy is Pittman is the first 1k yard WR that Carson has had in his career.

[husker61]

 This is a great breakdown of how top level nfl qb’s have to process things. No different than basketball, you have to know what is going to happen before it happens. That’s not to say it will always go how you think it will, but the top qb’s it usually does. If you have to think before you act, it’s too late. It’s read react. I do hope wentz can get to that level because the colts are screwed if he can’t. It’s not the o-line or receivers that is the problem like so many here have said! Why would a top receiver want to come to the colts knowing wentz has these issues?

[Smoke317]

7 hours ago, DougDew said:

Also, as mentioned my another in another thread; are there quick short passes as the first read target, or are the short patterns the last dumpoff read?    It looks like a lot of receivers were running intermediate routes, taking time to execute.

 

As if Chud designed the plays.

That clear out crossing pattern that Pittman finally “broke out” with last season and got all the yac (and Warner highlighted in the video) has been there all year.  Wentz just never even looks that way.  Ever.  Frank has called it for Pascal & Campbell & Pittman and Carson just doesn’t see it.  Rivers feasted on it.  Even Luck used it to great effect. It’s basically like a screen pass. Carson’s reading of defenses and his mechanics are remedial. 

[IndySouthsider]

On 1/11/2022 at 10:37 PM, Wentzszn said:

It’s no wonder he took so many sacks. Most of them were on him. This has been the issue with him. Not looking for the easy play and always looking for the big play. Wonder if any of this can be corrected now that he has played a year and they know what  they need him to work on.

It’s irreversible. His issues cannot be taught.

[Flash7]

Before making judgements about Wentz based on this video, we should understand a few things first:

 

1. Where does Wentz rank as a QB throughout the league? He's #18 in passing yards and #10 in passing TDs. Overall, he's an average-ish QB. He really isn't as bad as some say he is. Does he have things to improve on? Yes, absolutely.

 

2. We know from testimony from other players that COVID could have lasting effects even after the initial symptoms fade away. Usually, the symptom that remains is fatigue. It's not an outrageous claim to say that COVID could negatively affect an average-ish QB. There is no way to prove it, but I do think it's no coincidence that right after Wentz had COVID he had some of his worst games.

 

3. We have to acknowledge that the game film we are watching with Warner is of Wentz's WORST game this season, and it only breaks down a handful of plays. It would be great to have a comparison of good plays vs. bad plays, and plays from earlier in the season vs. his last game to get a better evaluation of Wentz. Of course he's not going to look good based on this game film.

 

4. It would also be good to have a breakdown of other QBs that are successful and see if they too make bad pre and post snap reads. My guess is that all QBs do from time to time (of course they do, that's why sometimes there are INTs or incompletions) and finding film to break down would not bee too difficult.

 

Too long; did not read version: don't make your assessment of Wentz based on this video. It should be a very small data point in your overall collection of data on Wentz.

[lollygagger8]

Excellent breakdown, and tough to watch these remedial mistakes by Wentz (esp at this point in his career).  Can someone send this to him please? It's like he doesn't even watch tape and is just making it up on the fly. I'm assuming his coaches are telling him these things, so he just not listening? Or does he just freak out all the time and it just turns into backyard ball for Wentz? Either way, not good. 

 

Wentz's pre-snap reads are either wrong, or non-existent. Can he not read defenses? It makes me wonder if he can't make the reads, or possibly he doesn't know the playbook well enough either for hot reads or to make anticipation throws? Idk

 

Watching Wentz try to throw off base is maddening. It causes his passes to sail more often than not.

His mechanics are very poor most of the time, and it's not just this game. He has a great arm, but his footwork/shoulders/base are all really bad. I don't understand why it's so bad and why nothing seems to be done about it. 

 

Why does Wentz refuse to throw to his best weapon/fastest guy in the league when he is wide open so often?????? (again, not just this game) 

 

So many questions. 

 

 

 

[lollygagger8]

 

[smittywerb]

7 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

 

so basically JB 2.0 lol

[lollygagger8]

10 hours ago, smittywerb said:

 

so basically JB 2.0 lol

 

You're not wrong unfortunately 

[pogi]

20 hours ago, Flash7 said:

Before making judgements about Wentz based on this video, we should understand a few things first:....

He makes these same dumb mistakes EVERY game!  This has gone on since Philly.....

 

You could put above-average players at every position on offense, and Wentz will still overthrow/underthrow to them half of the times.

 

He'll still make dumb decisions with just slight pressure

 

He'll not pay attention to the checkdown (until it's too late)

 

He'll still have trouble reading the defense

 

He'll still have bad mechanics on a lot of his throws

 

 

[Solid84]

20 hours ago, Flash7 said:

Before making judgements about Wentz based on this video, we should understand a few things first:

 

1. Where does Wentz rank as a QB throughout the league? He's #18 in passing yards and #10 in passing TDs. Overall, he's an average-ish QB. He really isn't as bad as some say he is. Does he have things to improve on? Yes, absolutely.

The problem isn’t his average numbers, it’s that he doesn’t step up and win us games when we need him to. It seems he’s more likely to lose us games. 
 

He doesn’t make basic throws and continuously overlooks open targets. Screw his numbers. I don’t care if he was number 1 in TDs and passing yards if he had a pick 6 each game that lost us the game. 

[lollygagger8]

[rockywoj]

I haven’t read through the thread and am instead going to just comments on The video as I make my way through it.

 

my first thought, the very first play he analyzes, I remember that play so well.  I was like, what the heck, Carson … you looked straight to JT who was wide open for the easy 1st down if you just quickly fire the ball to him.  It was such an easy play to quickly make, but no, Wentz looks there, but then inexplicably decides nope, then gets sacked with no time and nowhere else to go.  This failure was 100% on Wentz’s bad play. Get it to JT and with his amazing ability, you get the 1st down and maybe a TD.

[CoachLite]

Just now, rockywoj said:

I haven’t read through the thread and am instead going to just comments on The video as I make my way through it.

 

my first thought, the very first play he analyzes, I remember that play so well.  I was like, what the heck, Carson … you looked straight to JT who was wide open for the easy 1st down if you just quickly fire the ball to him.  It was such an easy play to quickly make, but no, Wentz looks there, but then inexplicably decides nope, then gets sacked with no time and nowhere else to go.  This failure was 100% on Wentz’s bad play. Get it to JT and with his amazing ability, you get the 1st down and maybe a TD.

There is a big difference between looking and seeing. Teaching a quarterback to 'see' is often reduced by the act of looking (I know, that seems strange). It's the difference between cognition and vision (which both use the term 'see'), and which is a skill that can be taught, learned and developed (but often isn't). 

[ColtJax]

Make them cover the check down. That was an easy 10-15 yards each time, Wentz never even looked.

[DougDew]

The passing stat comparisons to Jacoby do not tell the story.  JB would check down and do almost nothing else.  Carson can do a lot more than JB, 

 

I'd think its easier to get a QB that can throw down field to take the easy check downs more than it is to get a check down QB to start throwing it down field with success.

[PRnum1]

22 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

Rivers was the best out of all 4 !!! 

[Solid84]

22 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

See, this is a better metric at describing what we were seeing this season rather than just looking at Wentz base stats. It was Brissett in disguise!

[#12.]

He's not great, but he’s better than Brissett.  Wentz at least shows flashes of high level play.  

[ColtJax]

Like it or not, Wentz is a 8-9 to a 10-7 QB, nothing more. Now the question is, can the pieces around him win a game or two. We can make the playoffs with him, but not much further..

[JediXMan]

He has a bad habit of ducking when trying to shed sacks. Sometimes it works and he makes a good play. Other times it results in fumbles or Ints. I think there’s nothing QB coach, Reich can do and that’s just how he’s wired. 

[Smoke317]

3 hours ago, Solid84 said:

See, this is a better metric at describing what we were seeing this season rather than just looking at Wentz base stats. It was Brissett in disguise!

And think about it.  Jacoby had Zach Pascal as his number 1 receiver. Not highly drafted Michael Pittman Jr.  And he also had Mack at running back.  Not league leading rusher & MVP candidate Taylor.  So in other words, we could’ve gone 9-8 with Jacoby as our QB this season…

[masterlock]

On 1/11/2022 at 11:39 PM, Wentzszn said:

Seems to me two things have to be determined. One is it because he is slow at processing? 2. Is it just because he wants the big play. If it’s slow processing that probably can’t be fixed. If it’s him just wanting the big play that can probably be coaches out of him.

Maybe it's slow processing. Or maybe it's just bad/errant processing, and that's just how he's wired. One thing's for sure: He's had 3 or 4 years to establish himself as a franchise QB and has failed to do that. I have to believe Frank Reich tried to coach him into making sound decisions. And yet here we are. At what point are the excuses and alternate explanations outstripped by the sheer length of time you've been playing in the league? It's bad enough that he's still making poor decisions after 4 years in the league. Add to that the problems with accuracy, and a bigger picture starts to emerge.