Context for Wentz Critics

[luvdacolts67]

Carson Wentz is no champion and never will be he doesn’t have that heart of a champion. Frank Reich is a terrible coach and play caller.  The Colts will never ever go far with these two having anything to do with this team. I’m sorry but that’s the way it is you can have as much help as you want but it’s just a fact these to suck.

[coming on strong]

the longer a team holds on to a QB that is not the answer the longer it takes to find that answer .  its as simple as that i would keep wentz next year only because we have to pay him until next year and have no 1st rounder .    after next year its time to move on unless he magically doesnt stink any more .   at least next year let sam compete for the starting job and work with  morgan and bring in other late round QBs and see what we can do .  

 

[coming on strong]

i see the success mills is having with the texans this year i believe same can do the same let him compete .

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

the longer a team holds on to a QB that is not the answer the longer it takes to find that answer .  its as simple as that i would keep wentz next year only because we have to pay him until next year and have no 1st rounder .    after next year its time to move on unless he magically doesnt stink any more .   at least next year let sam compete for the starting job and work with  morgan and bring in other late round QBs and see what we can do .  

 

He isn’t going anywhere until we see what happens next year.  If we want a QB to succeed  we also have to give him the correct weapons. He has to do the offseason work too. Reich has to get better at play calling. But in saying that Ballard will have failed if he doesn’t ar least give him the weapons to succeed. Then it’s in him. And we can keep recycling quarterbacks but will keep getting the same result if he doesn’t start valuing the skill positions on offense.

[Happy2BeHere]

5 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

He isn’t going anywhere until we see what happens next year.  If we want a QB to succeed  we also have to give him the correct weapons. He has to do the offseason work too. Reich has to get better at play calling. But in saying that Ballard will have failed if he doesn’t ar least give him the weapons to succeed. Then it’s in him. And we can keep recycling quarterbacks but will keep getting the same result if he doesn’t start valuing the skill positions on offense.

Frank won’t get better at play calling. Period. 5 years and he hasn’t really done better than year 1.

[SurfinKal]

8 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

He isn’t going anywhere until we see what happens next year.  If we want a QB to succeed  we also have to give him the correct weapons. He has to do the offseason work too. Reich has to get better at play calling. But in saying that Ballard will have failed if he doesn’t ar least give him the weapons to succeed. Then it’s in him. And we can keep recycling quarterbacks but will keep getting the same result if he doesn’t start valuing the skill positions on offense.

"Give him the correct weapons"? Wentz cant hit the ones he has now. Its either an over throw, an under throw, throwing to a receiver that is obviously covered, misplacing balls or just flatly refuses to throw to an open checkdown. You blame the receivers, TEs and RBs for not getting open, but this is the NFL and you cant stay open for very long. Wentz doesnt know how to throw a receiver open or put a ball where the receiver is the only one that can catch it. He doesnt elevate the game of the players around him!

 

Reich calls the plays, but Wentz cant execute so the play calling looks bad. This has been an issue with him since he came into the league. after a couple of seasons, teams got tape on him and it is evident what needs to be done; get pressure on him and he will make a mistake because its in his DNA. If he doesnt hurt himself, he will hurt his team. 

 

Ive said this before and i'll say it again, I want him to work out and be our QB1, but i am seeing the same mistakes, the same bad habits that he had in Philly and im starting to believe it cant be coached out of him. I'd hear Eagles fans say he is a "me" guy and i never understood it, but i am starting to understand that its because he'd rather hold on to a ball to long looking for a deep shot than short gains and if and when he doesnt complete them it hurts the team. 

 

I could ramble on, but dinner is here.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, jeepnkal said:

"Give him the correct weapons"? Wentz cant hit the ones he has now. Its either an over throw, an under throw, throwing to a receiver that is obviously covered, misplacing balls or just flatly refuses to throw to an open checkdown. You blame the receivers, TEs and RBs for not getting open, but this is the NFL and you cant stay open for very long. Wentz doesnt know how to throw a receiver open or put a ball where the receiver is the only one that can catch it. He doesnt elevate the game of the players around him!

 

Reich calls the plays, but Wentz cant execute so the play calling looks bad. This has been an issue with him since he came into the league. after a couple of seasons, teams got tape on him and it is evident what needs to be done; get pressure on him and he will make a mistake because its in his DNA. If he doesnt hurt himself, he will hurt his team. 

 

Ive said this before and i'll say it again, I want him to work out and be our QB1, but i am seeing the same mistakes, the same bad habits that he had in Philly and im starting to believe it cant be coached out of him. I'd hear Eagles fans say he is a "me" guy and i never understood it, but i am starting to understand that its because he'd rather hold on to a ball to long looking for a deep shot than short gains and if and when he doesnt complete them it hurts the team. 

 

I could ramble on, but dinner is here.  

I am not even going to respond to this. Everyone was bad today. Cosches, QB, defense, oline.  I also said Wentz has to put in the offseason work.

[Hawkeyecolt]

It’s a QB league with damn near every rule change the last 30 years benefiting the QB.  The offenses are playing downhill.  He’s got the best back in the league. He’s got defenses crowding the line to stop Taylor yet an incredibly low completion % and yds per attempt.  
 

The first time he tries one of his back handed or left handed passes next year the head coach should light his * up.  As long as that’s part of his game every week this team is doomed. 
 

If a QB is continuously late, throwing to the wrong receiver, ignoring check downs, it doesn’t matter who his weapons are.  He had Taylor open on the interception.  He had WR’s open on the ball he threw behind Pittman. 

[CoachLite]

14 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

It’s a QB league with damn near every rule change the last 30 years benefiting the QB.  The offenses are playing downhill.  He’s got the best back in the league. He’s got defenses crowding the line to stop Taylor yet an incredibly low completion % and yds per attempt.  
 

The first time he tries one of his back handed or left handed passes next year the head coach should light his * up.  As long as that’s part of his game every week this team is doomed. 
 

If a QB is continuously late, throwing to the wrong receiver, ignoring check downs, it doesn’t matter who his weapons are.  He had Taylor open on the interception.  He had WR’s open on the ball he threw behind Pittman. 

Wentz is probably suffering from PTSD. In panic mode, he tenses up which causes him to throw too hard, and often overshoot his targets. I'm no genius, but I think that should be obvious to *real* coaches. He needs confidence, not rah-rah pep talks from a coach that only knows coach-speak.

[Fisticuffs111]

Was his QBR really 4.4 today? Yeesh

[Rhodelesstraveled]

16 hours ago, coming on strong said:

the longer a team holds on to a QB that is not the answer the longer it takes to find that answer .  its as simple as that i would keep wentz next year only because we have to pay him until next year and have no 1st rounder .    after next year its time to move on unless he magically doesnt stink any more .   at least next year let sam compete for the starting job and work with  morgan and bring in other late round QBs and see what we can do .  

 

I agree 100% with this sentiment.  Here is the problem:  We gave up our number one for Wentz and took his contract.  We are stuck with this for a while.  The question becomes do we just build a stud defense to cover for Wentz and hope for the best?  This morning I have woken up and I think I am now in the boat where I hope Ballard blows it up and gets rid of Wentz and we make the splash for one of the vet QBs that will be available.  We have 40 million dollars to do it.  It might cause us depth in places but I think I'd move some of the big contracts we have now and just do a rebuild.  

 

I'd consider trading Nelson and Buckner and build out the roster.  We need way too many positions.  WR Hubbard is bare.  Considering what TN is building right now, the direction we are headed in with Wentz is purgatory.  Every team we play will use TN blue print.  Stop JT at all costs and make Wentz beat you and you have a pretty good shot of beating us.  

 

I think when I saw Jax DL destroy this OL and I am no longer delusional that the OL dominance is how we should spend our money.  

 

Houston seems to have their QB.  Mills has looked awfully good and they have less talent than we do.  We need to rethink this team.  Can Ballard admit his mistakes sooner than later?  

 

If not he may need to go too.  

 

Irsay has to be bold.  If he does not I think the next 3 years in this division are going to be spent as an also ran.  

[Stephen]

49 minutes ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

I agree 100% with this sentiment.  Here is the problem:  We gave up our number one for Wentz and took his contract.  We are stuck with this for a while.  The question becomes do we just build a stud defense to cover for Wentz and hope for the best?  This morning I have woken up and I think I am now in the boat where I hope Ballard blows it up and gets rid of Wentz and we make the splash for one of the vet QBs that will be available.  We have 40 million dollars to do it.  It might cause us depth in places but I think I'd move some of the big contracts we have now and just do a rebuild.  

 

I'd consider trading Nelson and Buckner and build out the roster.  We need way too many positions.  WR Hubbard is bare.  Considering what TN is building right now, the direction we are headed in with Wentz is purgatory.  Every team we play will use TN blue print.  Stop JT at all costs and make Wentz beat you and you have a pretty good shot of beating us.  

 

I think when I saw Jax DL destroy this OL and I am no longer delusional that the OL dominance is how we should spend our money.  

 

Houston seems to have their QB.  Mills has looked awfully good and they have less talent than we do.  We need to rethink this team.  Can Ballard admit his mistakes sooner than later?  

 

If not he may need to go too.  

 

Irsay has to be bold.  If he does not I think the next 3 years in this division are going to be spent as an also ran.  

Give Wentz more weapons and try again. There is no better option at qb unless we trade Wentz for wilson or Sam beats him out in camp

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

55 minutes ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

I agree 100% with this sentiment.  Here is the problem:  We gave up our number one for Wentz and took his contract.  We are stuck with this for a while.  The question becomes do we just build a stud defense to cover for Wentz and hope for the best?  This morning I have woken up and I think I am now in the boat where I hope Ballard blows it up and gets rid of Wentz and we make the splash for one of the vet QBs that will be available.  We have 40 million dollars to do it.  It might cause us depth in places but I think I'd move some of the big contracts we have now and just do a rebuild.  

 

I'd consider trading Nelson and Buckner and build out the roster.  We need way too many positions.  WR Hubbard is bare.  Considering what TN is building right now, the direction we are headed in with Wentz is purgatory.  Every team we play will use TN blue print.  Stop JT at all costs and make Wentz beat you and you have a pretty good shot of beating us.  

 

I think when I saw Jax DL destroy this OL and I am no longer delusional that the OL dominance is how we should spend our money.  

 

Houston seems to have their QB.  Mills has looked awfully good and they have less talent than we do.  We need to rethink this team.  Can Ballard admit his mistakes sooner than later?  

 

If not he may need to go too.  

 

Irsay has to be bold.  If he does not I think the next 3 years in this division are going to be spent as an also ran.  

Where are we getting 40 million for a vet QB. A change at QB isn’t going to fix all these team problems.

[BlackTiger]

1 hour ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

 Every team we play will use TN blue print.  Stop JT at all costs and make Wentz beat you and you have a pretty good shot of beating us.  

 

our division figured it out, stop taylor and we have no offense.  the jaguars watched and applied it better than the titans did

[Superman]

On 1/8/2022 at 10:10 PM, EastStreet said:

In short..

Is he perfect. No.

Is he bad. No.

Will he be better with a better and more stable OL. Very likely. 

Will he be better with improved pass catchers. Very likely.

Has he improved dramatically since last year, and improved with a mediocre OL and pass catchers...... Heck yes.... 

 

He's also an unreliable decision maker, especially against pressure. And it's those moments where I most wonder whether he can be the guy we need him to be. 

 

He made a terrible decision against the Cardinals and turned the ball over. Reich then called 12 straight run plays, even though 80% of the OL was missing. Kind of makes me think Reich knows that Wentz is unreliable vs pressure, and that gives Reich license to lean into his more conservative nature as a play caller, which isn't good. 

 

I agree with the point of your OP, but Wentz still brings some critical issues that need to be confronted.

[Les Poulains]

13 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Where are we getting 40 million for a vet QB. A change at QB isn’t going to fix all these team problems.

In today's NFL, you can hide multiple problems on the roster with a very good QB, especially over the course of a regular season.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Les Poulains said:

In today's NFL, you can hide multiple problems on the roster with a very good QB, especially over the course of a regular season.

That is for losers. You aren’t winning a SB with average QB play with a team that has no weapons.  Right now Wentz is either the answer after next season or it is drafting a QB.

[Stephen]

1 minute ago, Les Poulains said:

In today's NFL, you can hide multiple problems on the roster with a very good QB, especially over the course of a regular season.

We are not going to find anyone this off season

[Les Poulains]

Just now, Wentzszn said:

That is for losers. You aren’t winning a SB with average QB play with a team that has no weapons.

So that means you have to keep an average to mediocre QB? 

1 minute ago, Stephen said:

We are not going to find anyone this off season

I'm talking about in general. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Les Poulains said:

So that means you have to keep an average to mediocre QB? 

I'm talking about in general. 

No it means you don’t panic and just cut him after  one season. Fix the skill positions and see what happens next season. If it doesn’t work then it’s time to go draft a young QB and start over.

[Les Poulains]

Just now, Wentzszn said:

No it means you don’t panic and just cut him after  one season. Fix the skill positions and see what happens next season. If it doesn’t work then it’s time to go draft a young QB and start over.

We're incentivized to cut him in 2023, anyway, if at all. I'm fully aware we won't cut him this summer.

[Stephen]

2 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

No it means you don’t panic and just cut him after  one season. Fix the skill positions and see what happens next season. If it doesn’t work then it’s time to go draft a young QB and start over.

I agree

[John Hammonds]

Unpopular opinion here.

 

When I think of Wentz after the Jax game, I can't help but think of the scene from Starship Troopers.  In boot camp, Rico makes a mistake that costs the life of a trainee, loses his training command, and results in him being flogged in front of the entire platoon.  Afterwards, the site commander asks Drill Sergeant Zim, "Do you believe this man can be rehabilitated?"  Zim answers, "Yes, I do."

 

Yeah.  I think so, too.

[coming on strong]

2 hours ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

I agree 100% with this sentiment.  Here is the problem:  We gave up our number one for Wentz and took his contract.  We are stuck with this for a while.  The question becomes do we just build a stud defense to cover for Wentz and hope for the best?  This morning I have woken up and I think I am now in the boat where I hope Ballard blows it up and gets rid of Wentz and we make the splash for one of the vet QBs that will be available.  We have 40 million dollars to do it.  It might cause us depth in places but I think I'd move some of the big contracts we have now and just do a rebuild.  

 

I'd consider trading Nelson and Buckner and build out the roster.  We need way too many positions.  WR Hubbard is bare.  Considering what TN is building right now, the direction we are headed in with Wentz is purgatory.  Every team we play will use TN blue print.  Stop JT at all costs and make Wentz beat you and you have a pretty good shot of beating us.  

 

I think when I saw Jax DL destroy this OL and I am no longer delusional that the OL dominance is how we should spend our money.  

 

Houston seems to have their QB.  Mills has looked awfully good and they have less talent than we do.  We need to rethink this team.  Can Ballard admit his mistakes sooner than later?  

 

If not he may need to go too.  

 

Irsay has to be bold.  If he does not I think the next 3 years in this division are going to be spent as an also ran.  

After next year wentz is guaranteed no money from the colts so we have to play him next year because frank wont let Ballard blow it up .  I feel dirty saying it but I hope we just tank with wentz and get a franchise Qb in the draft . I don’t wanna keep getting bridge guys like rivers because we don’t even have the weapons to be a contender with one .  I rather blow it up and tank start again with a young Qb . It’s better then being 9and 8 every year with wentz 

[Indyfan4life]

4.4 QBR. 

[Moosejawcolt]

21 hours ago, luvdacolts67 said:

Carson Wentz is no champion and never will be he doesn’t have that heart of a champion. Frank Reich is a terrible coach and play caller.  The Colts will never ever go far with these two having anything to do with this team. I’m sorry but that’s the way it is you can have as much help as you want but it’s just a fact these to suck.

Lombardi says Wentz is done and Feank knows it.....ouch!!!!

[jvan1973]

14 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Lombardi says Wentz is done and Feank knows it.....ouch!!!!

He will be the QB next year.    Pretty obvious Lombardi doesn't know what he is talking about

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

21 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Lombardi says Wentz is done and Feank knows it.....ouch!!!!

That guys never has anything right lol. Usually it’s the opposite of  what he says.

[tvturner]

2019 Brissett: 272/445 for 2944 yards, 61.1 CMP%, 6.6 Y/A, 19-6 TD-INT, 6 fumbles lost, 27 sacks, 12.3 EPA

2021 Wentz: 322/520 for 3567 yards, 61.9 CMP%, 6.9 Y/A, 28-7 TD-INT, 5 fumbles lost, 32 sacks, 13.1 EPA

 

2018 Luck:  568/708 for 5022 yards, 66.1 CMP%, 7.1 Y/A, 45-16 TD-INT, 6 fumbles lost, 21 sacks, 101.4 EPA

2020 Rivers: 396/588 for 4482 yards, 67.3 CMP%, 7.6 Y/A, 27-11 TD-INT, 3 fumbles lost, 20 sacks, 119.3 EPA

 

There's a clear difference on the two good to great seasons we got from Luck and Phil to the mediocre seasons we got from Wentz and Brissett

 

[Moosejawcolt]

20 hours ago, CoachLite said:

Wentz is probably suffering from PTSD. In panic mode, he tenses up which causes him to throw too hard, and often overshoot his targets. I'm no genius, but I think that should be obvious to *real* coaches. He needs confidence, not rah-rah pep talks from a coach that only knows coach-speak.

He looks scared. Crumbles when there is pressure.

[BlackTiger]

4 hours ago, Wentzszn said:

No it means you don’t panic and just cut him after  one season

they wont do that when there is 15 million$ penalty for doing it now, but zero penalty next year.  i heard the eagles took a huge hit to get rid of him, sucks we have people talking about it already

[CoachLite]

4 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

He looks scared. Crumbles when there is pressure.

People may not believe it, but that is an easy fix. Relaxation response.

[coming on strong]

 just watch this video on youtube of rivers and compare the release time . the ball is out within a couple of seconds watch the anticipation on throws .   its night and day  and depressing i thought wentz was the answer and he let down the whole fan base .

[ColtJax]

On 1/9/2022 at 1:10 AM, EastStreet said:

Just a little context and comparison for all those whining about QB play.....

 

                              OL Rank   QBR      PR       TD%         INT%           ANY/A     Supporting Cast (rank)

Luck18                   #3             #5       98.7       6.1             2.3               6.95          NA

Brissett19               #3            #21     88.0       4.0            1.3               5.87           NA

Rivers20                  #7           #19      97.0      4.4             2.0              7.18            #11

Wentz21                 #16*         #8       95.8      5.3              1.2              6.72           #22 (driven up by catching RBs)

Mahomes21            #2*          #5       98.8       5.7              2.1              7.1            #13

 

Note - OL rank for 21 is through the first 3Qs (12-13 games)

 

So.....

• Wentz had no preseason
• Wentz had the worst OL of our previous 3 QBs, and way worse than KC this year
• Wentz was coming off surgery and injured early
• Wentz's supporting cast of pass catchers is just not great

 

Yet, Wentz is is top 10 in QBR, not far off from Mahomes (or Luck in 18) in QBR or PR, and has one of the best TD/INT ratios in the league...... 

ANY/A is not far off, which is a bit shocking to me given Reich's play calling. 

 

In short..

Is he perfect. No.

Is he bad. No.

Will he be better with a better and more stable OL. Very likely. 

Will he be better with improved pass catchers. Very likely.

Has he improved dramatically since last year, and improved with a mediocre OL and pass catchers...... Heck yes.... 

 

 

Folks need to chill... 

 

You know, not to pile on, but come on, you can't REALLY believe this? The eye test is much better than any stat. Wentz hold onto the ball, staring down open targets until he gets sacked. The OL had issues, but he made it look so much worse.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

He's not going anywhere and he's unfortunately our QB next season. But if the colts privately decide he's not the answer they should replace him asap. If the financial ramifications are too much to cut him then keep him as a backup and bring as best a QB as you can to take over until your in position to get a good one, if ever.

It will be hard to bring in a QB that's worse then Wentz.

 

Again, this won't happen but it should.

[John Waylon]

I said I wasn’t going to, but I did rewatch the game. I’m not sure there’s any combination of pass catchers and pass blocking that could have improved Wentz’ game yesterday. There was a good 60+ yards Taylor could have racked up with receptions on coverages ranging from “loose” to “wide * open” but Wentz just flat out did even pay attention to him to throw to tightly and/or double covered receivers instead. 
 

Kinda seems like it might be a fundamental problem as much, if not more so, than a personnel one. I dunno. I wish I had stuck with my original decision not to rewatch the game because I feel worse about it and Wentz now than I did this morning. 

[Dobbinblitz]

Because he will be hear next year - I would like to see what he can do with a true number one WR, a tight end that can stretch the field, and a durable slot receiver. The Colts have spent 15 million on 8 receivers this year. Granted, Pittman is on his first contract, but if we don’t  shore this up JT will see only 8 man boxes every week. 

[ColtJax]

Good example of what happened yesterday. Watch the fiurst drive, when we went for it on 4th and 1 and JT got stuffed. That is 100% on Wentz. It's a read option, he has 1 job, read the DE and either hand it off or pull it out and run. The DE didn't even attempt to set containment, neither did the LB's. Everyone on the Jags just dove into the middle. If he pulls it and runs he might still be running. When I saw that I thought, "yep, my worst fear is about to come true, we're going to get beat by a 2-14 train wreak". Wentz did that kind of thing all game. Wide open guys were missed, he hung onto the ball rather than hit the hot read and was careless with it.

[Blackfish]

Eagles Fan,
 

 In terms of Carson, context is king. As a rookie, he went through progressions like a veteran QB of 7-8 years, his accuracy wasn’t there, but he was really good at scoping the field. 

 He started showing cracks in 2019, his mechanics were starting to get awful, he was regressing as far as reading defenses and the Eagles were not that good anymore as a team, rumors were he wasn’t getting along with certain players.   He ended that season in a playoff game, concussion, from a dirty hit Clowney put on him, then not a peep till the draft.  
 The Eagles draft Reagor (lol) but in the 2nd round they draft Hurts??  Approx 9 months after his big contract, the Eagles draft a QB, a team with no WR, drafts your b/u in the 2nd round.  Apparently Howie and Carson had an awkward phone call over that pick, more importantly though the concussion he had in the playoff game just a few months earlier was still bothering him a little bit.  Remember, ACL in ‘17, back fracture in ‘18, concussion in ‘19.  
 In 2020 he played as if he had already checked out, the team was a mess, and so was Carson, he was benched for poor play and that was it, he’s done.  He wanted a fresh start somewhere with less pressure and he got it, but look how he played the final 2 weeks,  I believe the thought of more football games just grossed him out and that’s exactly how he played.  It’s not intentional, just he’s had enough.  
 He got the big contract, saw Luck retire, then his brain was rattled in that concussion that was more serious than anyone knows and basically 2020 should of been his final season.  I bet he had good intentions coming into Indy, then a foot surgery, slow start, and done, fried, etc….   I wouldn’t be surprised if he calls it quits at the end of next season, even this offseason, if the criticism gets to him enough.   He’s been going through the motions of being an NFL QB for two seasons, he may not do it for a 3rd. 

 Combine all of it with his b/u Nick Foles won the SB (off of Carson’s MVP season), and had a statue put up. 

 

[Nadine]

On 1/9/2022 at 4:35 PM, masterlock said:

I really don't understand why Wentz critics' opinions are assumed to be less valid,

I'm sorry you feel that way

Your opinions are as valid as anyone elses